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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
It's all just a question of balance. Starcraft is not chess because it is real time and no human can directly control a hundred of units in real time. Automation is inevitable, and is actually present everywhere in SC1. SCVs auto-mine, rally points auto-move, units auto-target and medics auto-heal. It is very clear what you mean when you claim that units are too smart, but as many have noted, auto-surround was not intentionally programmed into the units AI and is just a natural consequence of better pathing. You cannot expect Blizzard to deliberately worsen the pathing algorithms, can you? That would make no sense at all. Instead, opportunities to exert direct control over units must be created elsewhere. Why not make a unit that you do not want to surround? Let it have something like immolation in Warcraft. Why not have a melee unit with a strong AoE attack (firebat, archon), that you rather run away from? Why not have dodgeable attacks, like lurker spines?
I think it's not the smart units that is the problem, it's the lack of creativity in unit design.
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Yes, some of the new features are bull. BUT! the good gamers will find ways around this. Right now the maps are too narrow and don't allow for many good flanking opportunities etc. When you can set up a 3 hotkey flank, target units with their specific hardcounters in your army (eg: immortal targets armored unit, collosus targets infantry, etc) Also, dancing still seems to exist and later when people are expoing with as few units as possible beforehand/able to counter any superior-army-at-that-moment rush (like we did in sc1) micro will definitely come into play. I myself have had SOME beta experience (not very much however) and from what I saw a good few of the basics still applied. Point is, I feel that with the amount of brilliant rts players who are analyzing this game, it will still evolve rapidly with very specific/mechanic demanding play. No, it won't be as hard as SCBW mechanic-wise--but strategetically, tactically, and in some areas of micro as well I think it will transfer. Macro IMO is mostly fine--the principles of trying to out-expand/out-army/out-tech your opponent still exists with scouting being a critical ingredient. It's different but I wouldn't give up hope yet.
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On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community with assumed opinions about how an RTS should play. For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same.
u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too.
u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on
perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2.
and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it.
ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby
fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game.
atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc.
it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw.
what happens is a shift of the skills required.
u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn.
too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest.
players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why?
because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about.
its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change.
and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again.
when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve.
GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units???
if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me
ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly
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On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community with assumed opinions about how an RTS should play. For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly
Not wasting me time.
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On February 26 2010 00:16 Misrah wrote:Get out. Get out now. TL does need trash like you. Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:05 Squallcloud wrote:
What do the units do in BW when their path is blocked when they attack a group of unit? Well if you don't micro your zerglings well in a zvz, then the other zerglings will sit behind the others, and wait till a spot opens up. IE you are basically only fighting with half of your army, while the other half waits in line lol. That is why it is very important to always make sure that your zerglings can have the maximum surface area on the enemy. Generally the idea of an arc or concave is used, to maximize your zerglings and DPS output.
Thank you 
Is this point the only complaint about micro? It's not enough to say the game suck in my opinion.
PS : This thread sounds like the Wow forums with the war casual against hardcore gamer. It's funny since there's some sort of general opinion the Sc player is superior to the Wow player
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On February 26 2010 00:32 Squallcloud wrote:Thank you Is this point the only complaint about micro? It's not enough to say the game suck in my opinion. PS : This thread sounds like the Wow forums with the war casual against hardcore gamer. It's funny since there's some sort of general opinion the Sc player is superior to the Wow player
The game doesn't suck. It's probably guaranteed to be the 2nd/3rd (SC/WC3) best RTS by default of every other RTS sucking balls.
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On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community with assumed opinions about how an RTS should play. For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time.
u are so proving on of my points...
its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time.
but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting"
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and btw just because i have only 5 posts doesnt mean i have no clue about starcraft and whatsoever
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On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community with assumed opinions about how an RTS should play. For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting"
It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points.
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If i may add something aren't you people thinking in BW rules while maybe you should think in SC2 rules?
Like in BW i can guess someone tought well my gling are dumb what can i do to increase their efficiency-> ok i can put them in this formation for a better attack surface.
In SC2 : well after 10 years of evolution Kerrigan made my gling with a bigger brain than before and they take the available surface to attack on their own what can i do to improve that?
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On February 26 2010 00:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:32 Squallcloud wrote:Thank you Is this point the only complaint about micro? It's not enough to say the game suck in my opinion. PS : This thread sounds like the Wow forums with the war casual against hardcore gamer. It's funny since there's some sort of general opinion the Sc player is superior to the Wow player The game doesn't suck. It's probably guaranteed to be the 2nd/3rd (SC/WC3) best RTS by default of every other RTS sucking balls.
Really? Just cause they dont have a proscene means they all suck? Other than that what do the Blizzard games have that sets them so much apart.
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On February 26 2010 00:32 Squallcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:16 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:00 flabortaster wrote:
Elitist fucks... Get out. Get out now. TL does need trash like you. On February 26 2010 00:05 Squallcloud wrote:
What do the units do in BW when their path is blocked when they attack a group of unit? Well if you don't micro your zerglings well in a zvz, then the other zerglings will sit behind the others, and wait till a spot opens up. IE you are basically only fighting with half of your army, while the other half waits in line lol. That is why it is very important to always make sure that your zerglings can have the maximum surface area on the enemy. Generally the idea of an arc or concave is used, to maximize your zerglings and DPS output. Thank you Is this point the only complaint about micro? It's not enough to say the game suck in my opinion. PS : This thread sounds like the Wow forums with the war casual against hardcore gamer. It's funny since there's some sort of general opinion the Sc player is superior to the Wow player
no you cannot think that simple zergling micro example is all there is too it. I am just assuming that from the types of questions your asking youre new? If you want to try and get an understanding of where we are coming from you can watch a few pro games. Take special notice of ealry un it position and the types of army movements inside of a big battle. I am sure that if you watch a few you will come to understand.
Of course playing the game will give you the best experience. But as I said before it is not fair to say " ooh that zergling thing is the only complaint" I am on an itouch so I really can't type out all the pages to try and discribe the many unit positions lol I just hope you can under stand
Also he'll yes SC is better than any wow wc3 trash. Sc has the biggest pro scene for a reason you know
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On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community with assumed opinions about how an RTS should play. For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points.
yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue.
u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time.
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I get a "500 Internal Server Error" on all of those interviews 
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A lot of trolls and or idiots in this thread..and whats with that guy calling us "elitist fucks" when we are just trying to make the game more enjoyable and long lasting.
the feeling of microing your units well and winning a battle that you shouldn't have won is AWESOME. I don't see why that should be replaced with attack move.
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On February 26 2010 00:56 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community with assumed opinions about how an RTS should play. For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points. yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue. u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time.
You`re not stating your opinion, but claiming some "facts", which are totaly wrong.
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On February 26 2010 00:56 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community with assumed opinions about how an RTS should play. For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points. yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue. u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time.
You have a troll ID, a troll post count, a troll opinion based on troll facts, with a troll way of writing. Nobody is going to take you seriously, you are a troll.
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i just hope iccup doesnt die with the release of sc2. I want to be able to go back to BW if SC2 fails
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On February 26 2010 01:00 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 00:56 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:44 spinesheath wrote:On February 26 2010 00:40 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 26 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:On February 26 2010 00:29 iTcouLdbeWorsE wrote:On February 25 2010 23:43 Misrah wrote:On February 25 2010 23:05 bendez wrote:
Again, there is no "auto-surround" feature. Units know the most effective route to reach an enemy unit, and as a result, they surround the unit. You yourself said that you want units to know the shortest distance possible. In SC2, they did just that. Bendez glad that you heard about sc2- and came running over to this site to come and enjoy the beta. However- After reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you and many other 'new' members to the community are going to be frustrated with TL. the reason is simply this: You are a noobie to starcraft. I have seen so many players here not understand why starcraft is such a great game, and why so many people here on TL are very worried with the current state of the game. New members of our community need to try and understand that most people hear have played SC for years, and in the case of nazgul for decades. Please do not come into the community with assumed opinions about how an RTS should play. For the members of the community that have been playing starcraft for some time, they know far better than most what map control and unit positioning should play like. I am sorry but right now SC2 is a joke. Mechanically the game is not demanding, and you are completely incorrect to some how think that SC2 can be compared to SC1. SC2 is filled with easy buttons as far as i am concerned. There is no more micro, and macro is a one key press now. Any long term player of SC would not argue with me if I were to say that SC2 is: - Has limited micro capability - Is not mechanically demanding - Does not have the depth that SC enjoyed - Has poor excuses for APM sinks - Big battles are simply 1a2a3a, where any types of in battle decisions are negligible. Everything dies to quickly, or is too closely packed together- that your typical late game attacks are basically two blobs just attacking each other. - That Blizzard has made SC2 more casual (and has even been quoted as saying that they would like their mothers to be able to pick up and play the game) - We realize that the game will be more profitable if it is easy, so new players like yourself can easily and quickly start winning. However our community has a problem with this train of thought, because we had hoped that SC2 > SC1 however as every day passes that dream is slowly fading away. In short- SC2 is the super smash brothers brawl of SC1. (whereas SC1 is melee.) As a competitive melee player myself, brawl was a huge disappointment- and i fear that SC2 will be the same. u certainly have a point. but ur wrong too. u say sc2 is easier then sc1 and it is not as demanding and so on perhaps ur right and it is a little easier in general but fact is that 80% of the sc1 progamers ive seen playing so far just plain suck at sc2. I stopped reading here.and i couldnt believe it when i first saw it. ret for example one of the best foreigner players in sc1, he even went to korea to train there, plays sc2 like a total nooby fact is learning sc:bw and becoming good at it is nothing compared to mastering a new game. atm sc2 is not easier to play than sc. it might be in 10years, namely when there is as much "data" as there is about sc:bw. what happens is a shift of the skills required. u can no longer read all guides, hammer them into ur head like a machine, get required apm and fkn pwn. too many sc players think they are the gods of RTS gamers. infact nobody knows more about their game as sc players do but that is only natural cause sc is the game that has been around the longest. players from all other RTS games currently play on an equal or even higher lvl then the sc players. do u know why? because most sc players have forgotten what an RTS is all about. its not only about APM, macro, micro. only SC is it in his current state because the stategical part has evolved over the years to a point where there is not much that will change. and that is why many sc players fkn suck at sc2 until they remember how to use their head again. when i see a terra whine about stealthed units because he has no detection and on the other hand he is proud how he didnt miss a single mule dropdown, i can do nothing expect to shake my head in disbelieve. GJ u macroed perfectly but how about using ur head and fkn scan instead of getting +270 minerals and lose to invis units??? if u want macro, micro and apm go on continue to play SC u might be right that it is more demanding in that particular part but stop posting shit like sc2 is easier then sc it rly annoys the hell out of me ps: frustration of not having a beta key yet may have caused generel aggresive tone in my speech and is not to be taken personaly Not wasting me time. u are so proving on of my points... its a fact dude just get over it. i didnt say it might not change with the time. but watch a replay of ret, kolll etc and if u say: "wow he did play good", i allow u to call my post "time wasting" It's no fact (it's blatantly wrong), and he didn't prove any of your points. yes i get it, u play sc and u have been a tl member longer than i have. ur oppinion is right, mine is wrong. don't waste ur time reading my posts i have no clue. u are the gods of RTS and ur idols are gosu no matter what they do, they can even please 10 woman at the same time. You`re not stating your opinion, but claiming some "facts", which are totaly wrong.
which facts did i mention? did i give evidence for them to be called facts or might it be that it is indeed just my opinion?
if i stated facts care about giving some evidence that they are wrong?
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On February 26 2010 00:52 Squallcloud wrote:
If i may add something aren't you people thinking in BW rules while maybe you should think in SC2 rules?
Like in BW i can guess someone tought well my gling are dumb what can i do to increase their efficiency-> ok i can put them in this formation for a better attack surface.
In SC2 : well after 10 years of evolution Kerrigan made my gling with a bigger brain than before and they take the available surface to attack on their own what can i do to improve that?
wow. You are the type of player blizz is catering too and it's just mind numbing how baseless your oppinions are I am so sad right now
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EPT
