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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On November 02 2009 03:38 illu wrote: Well, in War3, a 100 food Undead Army is superior to 100 food army of any other race, by a great margin. That makes perfect sense, considering the food max is 90? | ||
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BlackSphinx
Canada317 Posts
On November 02 2009 06:24 Nevuk wrote: That makes perfect sense, considering the food max is 90? It's 100 since July 2003, when The Frozen Throne was released. And it's debatable, 100 food of hippo/chims is really hard to beat. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9105 Posts
Also to OP, generally in my FFA experience mass carrier/arb is the best and protoss tends to dominate moreso than terran. Of course most of my FFA's are played with a mixture of fellow half-competent players mixed in with clueless pubs, but P is by far the easiest race to win a FFA with. | ||
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illu
Canada2531 Posts
On November 02 2009 06:24 Nevuk wrote: That makes perfect sense, considering the food max is 90? I laughed so hard at this. On November 02 2009 06:46 BlackSphinx wrote: It's 100 since July 2003, when The Frozen Throne was released. And it's debatable, 100 food of hippo/chims is really hard to beat. It is quite easy to beat as Undead... actually it's quite easy with any races unless you are Night Elf and you only have dotc. In FFA games DK + Lich + DL is standard, so with good vampiric aura + frost nova, garcs will dominate hippos. However, garcs can hit ground but hippos can't, so Night Elf needs to spend food on chims but UD does not need to spend on frost wyrms (although I usually will at least get one frost wyrm and one destroyer). NE does not really have any valid options against UD going mass garcs. First of all, units-wise NE's best option is hippo, but they only hit air, and thus not flexible enough to be used especially on a three-way stand-off (worse if there is also an Orc somewhere). Hero-wise, the best options are panda (BoF + DH) and potm (starfall, ofc), but they are easily countered by good vampiric aura, sleep, tri-hero healing scrolls, and destroyers. Hippo + chim is even worse against Orc because Orc has Unstable Concoction. Resource-wise, Unstable Concoction is not an economic anti-air strategy, but it gives the Orc player experience while giving the NE player none, and we know hero experience in important... unless it's a 10/10/10 situation. But despite common beliefs, it's difficult to get 10/10/10 even on FFA games. Against Human, it really depends on if NE has panda, and the level of the panda. | ||
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teapot
United Kingdom266 Posts
Wc3 FFA is the business. You take the basic wc3 action and overlay a whole new method of strategy, manipulation and bullshit. It's like battle poker. If you take away heroes and upkeep. How will matches play out? It sounds boring if is just turtled expansions. I'm really interested in how this will play out. Some of my fondest wc3 memories are FFA games. There is nothing as satisfying as coming back from nothing and winning a game. Who remembers the Golden Age of Invincible Rice, Pencil Warrior et al? | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On November 01 2009 11:17 SWOLE wrote: 2. Zerg are weak because there are 6 people grabbing up all the expansions across the map, so the zerg has no way of competing against a 200/200 3/3 mech terran who is turtling on 3 bases. Protoss does okay because of high tech units like carriers and arbiters but zerg kind of suck unless someone gets steamrolled and they can take all their bases. This is wrong, Zerg are really strong so annoying while scanning around the 256x256 bliz maps and seeing that they have like 12 bases. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On November 02 2009 09:52 d(O.o)a wrote: This is wrong, Zerg are really strong so annoying while scanning around the 256x256 bliz maps and seeing that they have like 12 bases. er in a 1v1 yeah, they can defend all those expansions, but not so much with multiple opponents.. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On November 02 2009 10:10 da_head wrote: er in a 1v1 yeah, they can defend all those expansions, but not so much with multiple opponents.. but in the 256x256 maps people don't realize how big the zerg is usually and bicker with their neighbors. | ||
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illu
Canada2531 Posts
On November 01 2009 11:17 SWOLE wrote: 2. Zerg are weak because there are 6 people grabbing up all the expansions across the map, so the zerg has no way of competing against a 200/200 3/3 mech terran who is turtling on 3 bases. Protoss does okay because of high tech units like carriers and arbiters but zerg kind of suck unless someone gets steamrolled and they can take all their bases. Zergs have the Nydus Canal, and some of the fastest units in the game. So defending against expansions is not that difficult. If anything causes concerns it's Protoss defending against a crapload of bases. | ||
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Drunken.Jedi
Germany446 Posts
On November 02 2009 03:38 illu wrote: Well, in War3, a 100 food Undead Army is superior to 100 food army of any other race, by a great margin. What gives you that idea? Ud has a very hard time fighting orc in FFA. Necrowagon doesn't work because tauren+tricaster rips through it, gargs don't work particularly well either because they get destroyed by bats. A fiend-wyrm based army is decent, but assuming similar hero levels, tauren caster wyvern is stronger. A maxed elf is indeed inferior to a maxed ud, because they have no good counter to gargs, apart from heroes. Human is probably weaker than ud in a straight up fight, but then humans don't usually need to fight those kinds of battles. After all, they have the best base defense, are best at taking down base defense and with a level 6 Archmage, they are also more mobile than any other race. Overall, I (and most of the FFA community) would say that ud is clearly the weakest race in FFA. | ||
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TwilightStar
United States649 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On November 03 2009 08:11 TwilightStar wrote: I hope SC2 still has FFA mode... I always enjoyed, and still do enjoy, a good FFA with my friends with LAN latency :D Of course it'll have a FFA mode. Removing it would be retarded, kind of like removing LAN functionality... o wait... | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
Edit:spelling | ||
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On November 03 2009 09:14 lolaloc wrote: I feel that Blizzard won't remove FFA. It's just retarded on their part if they would since that would just gain nothing. Yeah, that's kind of how I felt on the LAN issue. I find Blizzard to be reasonable much more often than not, so FFA will most likely exist as a game mode. Then again, the LAN business is a nasty precedent, so I can't be completely certain. | ||
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des
United States507 Posts
On November 03 2009 09:21 Zato-1 wrote: Yeah, that's kind of how I felt on the LAN issue. I find Blizzard to be reasonable much more often than not, so FFA will most likely exist as a game mode. Then again, the LAN business is a nasty precedent, so I can't be completely certain. There is some vague reason for the LAN thing, even if it's not really great for the player base. What would taking FFA out accomplish for anyone? Perhaps only pirates FFA. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On November 02 2009 06:24 Nevuk wrote: That makes perfect sense, considering the food max is 90? Oh good God... | ||
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craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
It is true however, that Zerg gets weaker and weaker as the game goes on. However, the winner of the game depends on how the game plays out, cause its not a simple 1v1. I also agree with the earlier idea that there should be a considerable amount of yellow expansions so that a player who chooses to turtle will be punished. Also there should be some Xel Naga Temples that have a huge reveal radius, making it vital to control so that you can see what your opponents are up to. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
In WC3 the benefit was experience a unworkable concept for SC2. Zerg might possibly get to infest the loosers structures, Terrans might be allowed to dismantel enemy buildings - but these are unintroduced gameplay comcepts that might unbalance 1v1 the primary mode or more likely Teamgames. | ||
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teapot
United Kingdom266 Posts
Perhaps Blizzard realise that SC is not suitable for FFA... | ||
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