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On August 12 2010 09:57 Surrealz wrote:
I love day9, but was ep163 painful to watch for you guys? I'm glad day9 takes the time to do this, but he has done it in a previous episode and touched on those points already. I think his main audience is mid diamond players, who need more subtle game mechanics explained than just "DONT QUEUE UP UNITS". Anyone can point out how to improve gold/plat play, I think its a huge waste of day9's talent.
I really really really like math, I mean like a super huge huge huge huge huge amount of love I have for that subject. Now when someone comes up to me with like an elementary math problem and is like "could you help me out" (don't feel bad if you're bad at math that's just the voice I always use) I could just say "naw bitch, that's a waste of my talent, I'm Kwidowmaker, I"M going into second year of math at the University of Toronto" but I don't instead I do what I can to help the person out and *gulp* aw man I forgot what I was saying - now, every time I take a sip of my delicious water it's not just because I'm thirsty, it's also because I forgot what I was going to say and I'm trying to remember it. That's a good trick to know if you want to be E-famous and make posts on TL. So, right, I say sure, why not, and I help them. And I do this because the mathematical community has been very nice to me, and it just generally feels good to help people out
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On August 12 2010 19:04 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:02 Hider wrote:
Wow surprised that the zerg player in 164 was 500+ diamond. He made so many awful mistakes. Def. seemed like the average plat player. Awfull macro, awfull decision making, awful micro. Now now, it wasn't THAT bad.
Ok perhaps not average plat player. But I mean the zerg players I play against (500 point as well) tpyically have around 100 apm or higher. They dont get their resssources get high even though they muta harass me. They know how to attack with their mutas and rest of their units at the same and so on.
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On August 12 2010 16:50 skipgamer wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I loved #163 it was perfect, hit the nail on the head perfectly as a gold level player looking to improve. I do just about everything mentioned in the daily...
However I have a question. Playing at this level, like you pointed out people don't have a tendency to play a macro game. People are very focused on getting an army out quickly, even unintentionally cutting probes and doing things like 5 rax to get a massive amount of burst with producing units.
When I try to play a macro game focused on building a lot of probes, getting a good saturation, getting upgrades etc. I find I am constantly being overwhelmed by a large amount of units and I know if I had better micro I could easily fend off their attacks and eventually overwhelm their usually one base play... But I feel that I just don't have the ability to do this (literally, I just don't have the micro and unit control to win a battle that I should be able to), and this forces me in turn to cut workers and keep up with their army size. Perfect example if I saw an army of the Terran's size, mass marauders with That amount of barracks, I feel like I HAVE to chuck down a couple more gateway's, even though I know that if I keep building workers like I SHOULD, I wont be able to support them. (I currently find most of my games coming down to like a 1 base 2 gate robo, into 2 more gates and a twilight council... and Then I think about expanding =\ I know this isn't doing much to help me become a better player, but I cant get out of the mindset in a game of seeing a bunch of units and thinking I need x and y and this and that, especially when I try to play with better macro I usually get pumped.)
How can one get out of that trap of literally feeling incapable of playing a macro based strategy when constantly being overwhelmed by a mass amount of units at this level?
If anyone else has an answer that would be greatly appreciated. ^^
Never stop building workers. Do not queue more than 1 worker. Try to stay below 200gas/mineral throughout. Those three things have helped me transition from war3 micro thinking towards sc macro thinking. I am a lower level diamond player that started playing sc for the first time in June.
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Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it in the last 20 or so pages:
Where can I get the replays for the casted games? I am especially interested in the Brat_OK vs TLO one to take a closer look at TLO's play by myself.
Thanks for the help!
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There you go: http://www.sc2win.com/?s=tlo brat
I was in silver during the second beta phase and those low level analysis helped me to improve to low-mid plat level since the game was released, so I'm quite happy that Day9 is focusing on those games for a while!
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On August 12 2010 12:07 Brad wrote:![[image loading]](http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/8158/day9t.png)
looooooooooooolz so funny!
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Does anyone know on which day he will be at Gamescom?
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On August 12 2010 20:55 DrCooper wrote:
Does anyone know on which day he will be at Gamescom?
Because of the fact that he will Shoutcast the IEM for SC2 you should check out their dates.
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On August 12 2010 19:35 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:04 AyJay wrote:On August 12 2010 19:02 Hider wrote:
Wow surprised that the zerg player in 164 was 500+ diamond. He made so many awful mistakes. Def. seemed like the average plat player. Awfull macro, awfull decision making, awful micro. Now now, it wasn't THAT bad. Ok perhaps not average plat player. But I mean the zerg players I play against (500 point as well) tpyically have around 100 apm or higher. They dont get their resssources get high even though they muta harass me. They know how to attack with their mutas and rest of their units at the same and so on.
I think your overestimating how easy a diamond rank is to get. If you have somewhat solid build orders and strong 1 or 2 base play you can win 75% platinum games and below. Also your quick to criticize how high the zergs minerals get, but i never saw his gas get above 800. He went a muta heavy build and the main reason the zergs minerals got so high was because he had a high yield and not nearly enough larva. Also i the original player who said he had "awful macro/micro" is comparing the zerg to a 1000 point diamond player, the zerg in 164 had quite good macro for his rank. Also the muta micro was good enough to secure himself a solid lead early in the game
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Hope your pc gets fixed or some rich viewer donates you a new one 
Also first to say over 9000. sorry...
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Have you enabled Vertical Sync, day9? Starcraft 2 doesn't keep the framerate <= 60 by default, and you either need to change some settings file or enable Vsync in the video options. I know for me, it's the difference between 240 FPS and 60FPS, so it cuts my graphics card usage to 25%, overheating not an issue!
Conversely your card sucks.
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On August 12 2010 22:21 tipakee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:35 Hider wrote:On August 12 2010 19:04 AyJay wrote:On August 12 2010 19:02 Hider wrote:
Wow surprised that the zerg player in 164 was 500+ diamond. He made so many awful mistakes. Def. seemed like the average plat player. Awfull macro, awfull decision making, awful micro. Now now, it wasn't THAT bad. Ok perhaps not average plat player. But I mean the zerg players I play against (500 point as well) tpyically have around 100 apm or higher. They dont get their resssources get high even though they muta harass me. They know how to attack with their mutas and rest of their units at the same and so on. I think your overestimating how easy a diamond rank is to get. If you have somewhat solid build orders and strong 1 or 2 base play you can win 75% platinum games and below. Also your quick to criticize how high the zergs minerals get, but i never saw his gas get above 800. He went a muta heavy build and the main reason the zergs minerals got so high was because he had a high yield and not nearly enough larva. Also i the original player who said he had "awful macro/micro" is comparing the zerg to a 1000 point diamond player, the zerg in 164 had quite good macro for his rank. Also the muta micro was good enough to secure himself a solid lead early in the game
Ehm did you read my post? I play against 450-600 zerg diamond players on europe. And they all have much better macro and micro. Btw the muta micro is easy as hell because he did not macro meanwhile. IMO he just played like a 200-300 diamond zerg. I kidn of belive I would play better if I played zerg my self even though I am pretty awfull at that race. But at least I would be able to use hotkeys.
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lol @ the people whining that they dont get exactly what they want in a totally free, super generous, *daily* strategy show. There's a million other things he could be doing with his time....(like play starcraft!)
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What daily is it that Day9 is explaining how he does the scream? I literally cried it was so damn good.
Edit: 36 minutes through 161, <3
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On August 12 2010 23:20 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 22:21 tipakee wrote:On August 12 2010 19:35 Hider wrote:On August 12 2010 19:04 AyJay wrote:On August 12 2010 19:02 Hider wrote:
Wow surprised that the zerg player in 164 was 500+ diamond. He made so many awful mistakes. Def. seemed like the average plat player. Awfull macro, awfull decision making, awful micro. Now now, it wasn't THAT bad. Ok perhaps not average plat player. But I mean the zerg players I play against (500 point as well) tpyically have around 100 apm or higher. They dont get their resssources get high even though they muta harass me. They know how to attack with their mutas and rest of their units at the same and so on. I think your overestimating how easy a diamond rank is to get. If you have somewhat solid build orders and strong 1 or 2 base play you can win 75% platinum games and below. Also your quick to criticize how high the zergs minerals get, but i never saw his gas get above 800. He went a muta heavy build and the main reason the zergs minerals got so high was because he had a high yield and not nearly enough larva. Also i the original player who said he had "awful macro/micro" is comparing the zerg to a 1000 point diamond player, the zerg in 164 had quite good macro for his rank. Also the muta micro was good enough to secure himself a solid lead early in the game Ehm did you read my post? I play against 450-600 zerg diamond players on europe. And they all have much better macro and micro. Btw the muta micro is easy as hell because he did not macro meanwhile. IMO he just played like a 200-300 diamond zerg. I kidn of belive I would play better if I played zerg my self even though I am pretty awfull at that race. But at least I would be able to use hotkeys.
I guess we just see things differantly, the 500 diamond players you encounter must be a hell of alot better than the 500 NA players i come across. To get 500 on NA like i said it just requires worker saturation, into a good timing attack or lots of harass into a lopsided army engagement.
As for the hotkeys, they are nice, but you can still reach 500 D fairly effortlessly with a one control group army, and 1 control group for all your hatches.
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The number of posts in this thread is now, officially, over 9000.
Over 9000!!!
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the zerg in last night's replay had over 9000 resources for over 9 minutes
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i hope you do sg awesome for your brother's birthday like a commentary on his play or just sg cool
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On August 12 2010 16:50 skipgamer wrote:
I loved #163 it was perfect, hit the nail on the head perfectly as a gold level player looking to improve. I do just about everything mentioned in the daily...
However I have a question. Playing at this level, like you pointed out people don't have a tendency to play a macro game. People are very focused on getting an army out quickly, even unintentionally cutting probes and doing things like 5 rax to get a massive amount of burst with producing units.
When I try to play a macro game focused on building a lot of probes, getting a good saturation, getting upgrades etc. I find I am constantly being overwhelmed by a large amount of units and I know if I had better micro I could easily fend off their attacks and eventually overwhelm their usually one base play... But I feel that I just don't have the ability to do this (literally, I just don't have the micro and unit control to win a battle that I should be able to), and this forces me in turn to cut workers and keep up with their army size. Perfect example if I saw an army of the Terran's size, mass marauders with That amount of barracks, I feel like I HAVE to chuck down a couple more gateway's, even though I know that if I keep building workers like I SHOULD, I wont be able to support them. (I currently find most of my games coming down to like a 1 base 2 gate robo, into 2 more gates and a twilight council... and Then I think about expanding =\ I know this isn't doing much to help me become a better player, but I cant get out of the mindset in a game of seeing a bunch of units and thinking I need x and y and this and that, especially when I try to play with better macro I usually get pumped.)
How can one get out of that trap of literally feeling incapable of playing a macro based strategy when constantly being overwhelmed by a mass amount of units at this level?
If anyone else has an answer that would be greatly appreciated. ^^
The best advice I can give is always leave a probe outside the enemy base. That way you'll always know when they're moving out, and if you're quick you'll be able to see the size and composition of their army. You'll then have time to drop some canons at the top of your ramp if you need to and get another round of warp ins. Scouting is extremely key to macro style/less aggressive play. Also, 3 gate robo is probably a better build than 2 gate robo for anyone who isn't a beastly player. Unless your macro is perfect(and very few people's are), you'll run up a bit of a resource surplus from time to time anyway that will let you expo or tech as necessary. When you see your opponent has 5+ rax, don't think of it like "oh my god I need more production to compete," think of it as "that's 3+ fewer marines or marauders in his army"
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EPT
