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starcraft is played with a keyboard and a mouse. if one can watch every step of the game infinite times, one would eventually learn to mimic it.
if people watch infinite number of games, by trial and error, the best strategies will be figured out. The one with the best macro.
replays made macro kill boxer
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i think kespa can just limit the release of replays. i mean they can control just about everything progamers do except when to expand.
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I think no-one here is advocating the the removal of replays in its entirety but just having the option to if one would like to keep his unique strategy (not build order) concealed.
Build orders and strategy will even be open to analysis with just VODs anyway. But at least they don't reveal every click a player makes.
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On October 06 2009 16:55 timmeh wrote: I think no-one here is advocating the the removal of replays in its entirety but just having the option to if one would like to keep his unique strategy (not build order) concealed.
Build orders and strategy will even be open to analysis with just VODs anyway. But at least they don't reveal every click a player makes.
Strategy can be figured out instantly from a VOD or even just by playing a game against that strategy. Doesn't matter if there are replays or not.
About unique builds: just don't use that build in a public game, and instead only in games against teammates and in offline tournaments where the tournament host can control the release of replays. There are various reasons why offline tournaments are pretty much the only way to go when money is involved. And seriously, you wouldn't want to use your best builds in anything but the final rounds of an important tournament, or else you risk it being disclosed and figured out, even if there are no replays.
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This may okay to consider for progamer level, but for bnet and everything, this is practically asking for hackers, all other abusers and super bm people to get away with whatever they do.
So at amateur level this is a step backwards, but I do agree that this function would be good for progamer level.
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Maybe there could be an option to create games with or without replay saving. If you don't want to have your replays all over the net, create games with no replay saving or joing games that have replay option disabled.
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i agree that most of the strategies can be figured out from VOD's.
however, something subtle like when exactly to postpone worker production will be harder to spot in VOD, whereas in replays, absolutely everything is revealed.
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No replays would be better. The koreans know what's up! Optional is a good idea.
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Absolutely ridiculous suggestion. Keep in mind that Blizzard thoroughly looks at this forum. Posting stupid suggestions like this can mess up their way of thinking and opens up possibilities for making SC2 worse than it is now. They've made enough mistakes of this kind so far, including making people update their copy of Starcraft 2 every once in a while and disabling LAN games. Now you want them to disable replays? Are you trying to drive every future potential SC2 customer away from this game or what? Please think about the consequences before posting this kind of stuff.
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On October 06 2009 09:11 BluzMan wrote: Oh an yeah, consider this scenario:
<scenario>
I'm a noobie that has shown some promise and I've just had my first sexual intercourse yesterday, the stars aligned perfectly and my country just won the World Soccer champ, so, even though I'm usually mediocre, today I'm on fire. Inexplicable luck matches me against Boxer and even though he executes some brilliant build vs me I get super lucky and manage to pull it off, winning a 45 minute long game full of thrilling action that is officially my best StarCraft for now or maybe even forever.
Now I'm just choking with excitement and guess what? I want to share it with friends. I want everyone to know that I've beat Boxer and in a very entertaining manner. And now click "Save Replay"... Stop! WHAT?
"Player Boxer has not allowed replay saving".
</scenario>
I can imagine people quitting the game after this. Don't rip people off their victories, like some other dirty business we all men do it, but never tell each other about it - we save our own replays. Memorable games that we sometimes watch. I would hate winning vs a better player and not being able to save the replay.
this is actually a very unique and good point.
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i tihnk its pretty dam selfish replays are an intregal part of this game. The person with the football analogy pretty much summed it up! every sport has replays and training film i dont know what is the big fuss really.
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I will admit i do miss that oohhh and ahhhh feeling I used to get when someone would break out some crazy stuff no one had ever seen before. Also I used to really enjoy that almost martal arts feel BWs hard in the early days before replays. Where you almost had to find a master to teach you to get better lol. Then again i know i also have enjoyed watching alot of reps too.
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On October 05 2009 22:34 MasterOfChaos wrote: Over bnet it won't work anyways(a client side hack can remove the restriction). And for pro-games kespa can simply set a policy that replays may not be taken home by the players.
@ProoM that's technically impossible. The players can simply hack their starcraft client when watching the replay offline.
Well you COULD make Starcraft only work online but that's ridiculously impractical as well. 
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On October 07 2009 03:09 spkim1 wrote: Absolutely ridiculous suggestion. Keep in mind that Blizzard thoroughly looks at this forum. Posting stupid suggestions like this can mess up their way of thinking and opens up possibilities for making SC2 worse than it is now. They've made enough mistakes of this kind so far, including making people update their copy of Starcraft 2 every once in a while and disabling LAN games. Now you want them to disable replays? Are you trying to drive every future potential SC2 customer away from this game or what? Please think about the consequences before posting this kind of stuff.
Blizzard knows more about what they are doing than you do. You think you're so smart that Blizzard should just listen to you, eh? Because they are so gullible that they might look into ideas that you find stupid?
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On October 07 2009 04:32 Equinox_kr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2009 22:34 MasterOfChaos wrote: Over bnet it won't work anyways(a client side hack can remove the restriction). And for pro-games kespa can simply set a policy that replays may not be taken home by the players.
@ProoM that's technically impossible. The players can simply hack their starcraft client when watching the replay offline. Well you COULD make Starcraft only work online but that's ridiculously impractical as well.  SC2 does only work online. (With the exception of 'guest' singleplayer mode in which you can not gain achievements etc).
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Osaka27149 Posts
Im against things that further divide the pool of players into separate categories.
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10387 Posts
Replays will be far more in-depth in SC2 right? That should be a huge concern for all pros, because that would not only make strategic players far weaker, but it'll also be used against every top player to find every tiny crack in their armor to exploit and abuse. With the decrease of mechanical skill requirements, it becomes even easier for unknowns to topple top players. This is assuming that SC2's replays are very in-depth, which I think they are.
Rather than disabling the replay feature, there should be a choice between saving the replay as a "basic" replay option like that of BW's, and the normal replay option which will be super in-depth and everything.
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On October 07 2009 13:14 ArvickHero wrote: Replays will be far more in-depth in SC2 right? That should be a huge concern for all pros, because that would not only make strategic players far weaker, but it'll also be used against every top player to find every tiny crack in their armor to exploit and abuse. With the decrease of mechanical skill requirements, it becomes even easier for unknowns to topple top players. This is assuming that SC2's replays are very in-depth, which I think they are.
Rather than disabling the replay feature, there should be a choice between saving the replay as a "basic" replay option like that of BW's, and the normal replay option which will be super in-depth and everything. Yes, I actually I like this idea a lot. Having the option of saving the replay without food counts, minerals, gas or even units being built or things being upgraded being shown.
I think if the decision had to be made, this would be the best compromise for both parties, unless there is a way to make it so that you can only save the replay with the fog of war up and you can only see what you did, not anything the other player did.
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I don't want replays. While I enjoy watching them, I think I can put aside my personal enjoyment of replays in favor of preservation of strategical integrity of the game. It would also extend the lifespan of the game; as it stands, every one will watch the first season of progaming competition and immediately implement whatever strategies they see in replays, and the game will become a very stagnant with 90% of the player base insisting that "ABC is the RIGHT way to play, ZXY is for noobs". Compare modern starcraft to how it was 5 years ago (which was already quite methodical); it has become extremely mechanistic.
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Besides giving the possibility to make game with or w/o replay saving option(that way if you join a game with no replay option, you know you are not going to be able to save the game, and if you don't like it, go find a game somewhere else), strictly focusing on the issue that a player should be able to save his own replays, maybe there could be an option so the replay can only be watched by the players who played the game, with some sort of ID recognizing system.
Taking in count that no multiple accounts will be allowed, this seems a pretty good option.
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