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http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7923874068
"Now that the highest skilled pro players have been playing the beta for a few weeks, we've been gathering pro level ladder data, pro feedback, as well as watching all the HotS tournaments/show matches that have been going on.
Out of everything we're seeing and hearing from pro players, we think the most important issue we need to deal with rather quickly is early game ZvT.
The biggest issue in the ZvT early game at the highest pro level seems to be the mass Hellion contain leading into the various potential mass Hellbat combinations right when the Armory comes into play. The time between Terran gaining full map control and then converting all their map control units into straight up power units looks to be too narrow.
Even without this threat, Terran has plenty of early game strategies to utilize vs. Zerg. We're most likely going to add the Hellion to Hellbat transformation upgrade back to the Factory Tech lab with an Armory requirement. This will give Zerg more time to scout and prep against possible Hellbat based attacks when they see lots of Hellions in play."
I agree with this change although I am a terran player. i play zerg as well, and feel that the battle hellions were coming out too early for their base strength. It's not in effect yet, but what are your thoughtS?
FOR REFERENCE:
think its this: SCUpgrade/Transformation Servos
in which case it would be 100/100 and 110 second research
110 seconds is the same length as Combat Shields
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as someone whos been f5'ing reddit and tl for a week to finally get a balance update i must say this is a reasonable change, dont think its enough though yet
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Seems very reasonable if the upgrade doesn't take forever or cost a mint. I am glad they are keeping the unit powerful, since it is a back bone unit and should be viable.
Also - this is clearly a quick fix to solve one specific, early game issue, rather than a full patch for all three races. I am sure they are looking at other stuff.
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On February 22 2013 03:22 Plansix wrote:
Seems very reasonable if the upgrade doesn't take forever or cost a mint. I am glad they are keeping the unit powerful, since it is a back bone unit and should be viable.
Also - this is clearly a quick fix to solve one specific, early game issue, rather than a full patch for all three races. I am sure they are looking at other stuff.
The wording seems to me to imply it will return at the same time/cost
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On February 22 2013 03:25 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 03:22 Plansix wrote:
Seems very reasonable if the upgrade doesn't take forever or cost a mint. I am glad they are keeping the unit powerful, since it is a back bone unit and should be viable.
Also - this is clearly a quick fix to solve one specific, early game issue, rather than a full patch for all three races. I am sure they are looking at other stuff. The wording seems to me to imply it will return at the same time/cost
You should include that in the OP for people to reference, since I don't even remember what it was. Still sounds like a good fix to a rising problem.
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how about those afterburners! The hellbats nerf are ok but the medivac speedboost time cut by 50%.
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On February 22 2013 03:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 03:25 c0sm0naut wrote:On February 22 2013 03:22 Plansix wrote:
Seems very reasonable if the upgrade doesn't take forever or cost a mint. I am glad they are keeping the unit powerful, since it is a back bone unit and should be viable.
Also - this is clearly a quick fix to solve one specific, early game issue, rather than a full patch for all three races. I am sure they are looking at other stuff. The wording seems to me to imply it will return at the same time/cost You should include that in the OP for people to reference, since I don't even remember what it was. Still sounds like a good fix to a rising problem.
I don't remember either, haha. Will be happy to if some shows me the numbers
Edit: and yes I agree. I think tvt will benefit the most however
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But T will still be able to produce hellbats with an armory, right? Well they'll just rush to armory faster.
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Sounds reasonable to me. I like that getting the upgrade is a semi-commitment to mech play. At least for the early game, since it requires a factory to be attached to a tech lab for that period of time.
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On February 22 2013 03:29 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 03:27 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2013 03:25 c0sm0naut wrote:On February 22 2013 03:22 Plansix wrote:
Seems very reasonable if the upgrade doesn't take forever or cost a mint. I am glad they are keeping the unit powerful, since it is a back bone unit and should be viable.
Also - this is clearly a quick fix to solve one specific, early game issue, rather than a full patch for all three races. I am sure they are looking at other stuff. The wording seems to me to imply it will return at the same time/cost You should include that in the OP for people to reference, since I don't even remember what it was. Still sounds like a good fix to a rising problem. I don't remember either, haha. Will be happy to if some shows me the numbers Edit: and yes I agree. I think tvt will benefit the most however
It was called Transformation Servos and the cost was 100/100 with an easy to remember 110 build time. I am sure someone will have a problem with it, but Hellbats are pretty awesome.
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For reference metabolic boost is also 110 seconds I think.
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On February 22 2013 03:37 MstrJinbo wrote:For reference metabolic boost is also 110 seconds I think.
You are correct sir, the speedy zergling agrees. FYI, combat shield, also 110 Blizseconds to become real.
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United States7483 Posts
This feel like a good change, Hellbats are such a ridiculously powerful modification to hellions to not require an actual upgrade, and this is a good way to weaken early timings without nerfing them at all in the mid game or end game.
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Definitely a good start.
I worry, as the metagame continues to evolve, that both Hellbats and Widow Mines, when incorporated with a bio ball, become too efficient against all Zerg early and mid-game options. Roach/Hydra seems to be the most effective answer so hopefully a lesser threat of Hellbat all-ins can allow Zerg players to set up an economy to properly support Roach/Hydra.
Still hoping for a Hydra boost at some point, +1 range ftw. 
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Hellbat transformation requiring upgrade.
Siege tech does not require upgrade.
WHAT IS MY WORLD
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Good to see they are making reasonable adjustments, instead of nuking the unit into oblivion in a single patch.
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On February 22 2013 03:43 shindigs wrote:
Hellbat transformation requiring upgrade.
Siege tech does not require upgrade.
WHAT IS MY WORLD
i hope they reintroduce siege tech as well, it creates so many tense timing situations in tvz as well as tvt and it never achieved what it was supposed to, which was make mech more viable in tvp
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EPT
