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Austria24422 Posts
On February 08 2013 23:14 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 22:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:
>_>
You guys are debating about what to call the unit composition that kills everything protoss instead of talking about why it would/wouldn't be a bad idea for it to be even stronger. That's kind of a silly discussion.
Protoss gateway units are supposed to be strong in low numbers but expensive. Then a cheap, quickly produced mine comes along and 1 shots every single gateway unit + has splash damage unless you have detection + stalkers with your army which in turns are terrrrrrrible vs siege tanks that now don't need an upgrade.
Gateway units are complete trash in HotS in every matchup and robo units didn't exactly get stronger either. Airtoss is and will always be bad in PvT because marines I think the problem with mines is that Blizzard painted themselves into a corner with the fire rate being 40 seconds. Which means in most scenarios, they get to shoot once. So if they cannot take out a single gateway units, they become supply inefficient.
Yeah but with splash? That means that if they get to shoot once you... lose the game. Protoss can't afford to trade early/midgame, let alone lose parts of their army for nothing.
Why not give it to tanks as an upgrade at armory? That way it won't be used in new, revolutionary ( -_- ) 1/1/1 strategies but makes siege tanks an actual threat to protoss ground armies. Mines are not gonna help against a protoss ground army in the lategame when colossi, etc. are out on the field with detection always supporting them. The only thing mines are gonna be used for in TvP is give absolute map domination to terran until protoss has detection with their army. Which means you're not gonna go stargate, ever. Because oracles would become defensive support units rather than their actual supposed role of harassment tools => not worth the investment when you could go robo and achieve the same results for less money + an actually viable tech route vs bio AND mech in colossi.
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On February 08 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 23:10 TimENT wrote:
Minigun.... Hahahahaha I wouldn't even put him top 100 toss in the world. Awesome example there buddy Would you put Morrow in the top 100 terrans? So Byun uses a similar composition (Ghost/viking, sometimes with ravens) in WoL already and nobody beats it. Byun such a scrub right. Learn to fucking read or don't reply, not gonna waste my time on people like you who have no intention of making a productive argument. Also considering Minigun was regularly #1 GM, I don't really care where you'd rank him.
How many times has Byun got there? Learn to use your fucking brain. He's used the composition like ...twice... in top level play. It hasn't been played against much.
No Morrow isn't top 100 either. So this conversation is irrelevant. Minigun (worse than at least 100 tosses) plays against Morrow (worse than at least 100 terrans). Both have the potential to micro and macro a million times better. Once again, learn to use your fucking brain.
I can read.
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On February 08 2013 10:10 Evangelist wrote:
Hope for a future tank buff, maybe? First time anything has had +damage to shields, right?
Would a Tank then damage like 35 to the unit and something to the shield?
Would like to see it but won't come, cause this would oneshot Archons
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On February 08 2013 10:05 avilo wrote:
Oracle still leads to build order wins, TvP is quite broken at this point. Expecting a lot of Terran players to switch race upon release.
Oh, and wait a minute, what? More early game buffs for Zerg? ....
You're right.
As someone who's had beta since day 1 I've played well over 1k games (I remember several warhound wars vs avilo)...since the complete removal of warhound I saw the writing on the wall switched to zerg for hots.
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Want to see the tanks get + against shields...
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 08 2013 23:19 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 08 2013 23:10 TimENT wrote:
Minigun.... Hahahahaha I wouldn't even put him top 100 toss in the world. Awesome example there buddy Would you put Morrow in the top 100 terrans? So Byun uses a similar composition (Ghost/viking, sometimes with ravens) in WoL already and nobody beats it. Byun such a scrub right. Learn to fucking read or don't reply, not gonna waste my time on people like you who have no intention of making a productive argument. Also considering Minigun was regularly #1 GM, I don't really care where you'd rank him. How many times has Byun got there? Learn to use your fucking brain. He's used the composition like ...twice... in top level play. It hasn't been played against much. No Morrow isn't top 100 either. So this conversation is irrelevant. Minigun (worse than at least 100 tosses) plays against Morrow (worse than at least 100 terrans). Both have the potential to micro and macro a million times better. Once again, learn to use your fucking brain. I can read.
Byun has used that against the best protoss players in the world frequently. HerO, Rain, etc etc. There's plenty of VODs to study from, it's not a hard playstyle to copy for top level terrans so they're surely as hell practicing against it.
Also WTF does it matter how many times he got there? That's like saying BL/infestor isn't too strong because zerg never gets there. Dumb argument.
So Morrow wins vs someone who is as skilled as him. Both players could micro better. Give both better micro. Morrow still wins?
Byun vs HerO. HerO has better micro. Byun wins.
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Yes, they should give tanks +dmg against shields and keep widow mines as is.
Actually, why don't they make every single mech unit 1-shot any protoss unit?
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On February 08 2013 23:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 23:19 TimENT wrote:On February 08 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 08 2013 23:10 TimENT wrote:
Minigun.... Hahahahaha I wouldn't even put him top 100 toss in the world. Awesome example there buddy Would you put Morrow in the top 100 terrans? So Byun uses a similar composition (Ghost/viking, sometimes with ravens) in WoL already and nobody beats it. Byun such a scrub right. Learn to fucking read or don't reply, not gonna waste my time on people like you who have no intention of making a productive argument. Also considering Minigun was regularly #1 GM, I don't really care where you'd rank him. How many times has Byun got there? Learn to use your fucking brain. He's used the composition like ...twice... in top level play. It hasn't been played against much. No Morrow isn't top 100 either. So this conversation is irrelevant. Minigun (worse than at least 100 tosses) plays against Morrow (worse than at least 100 terrans). Both have the potential to micro and macro a million times better. Once again, learn to use your fucking brain. I can read. Byun has used that against the best protoss players in the world frequently. HerO, Rain, etc etc. There's plenty of VODs to study from, it's not a hard playstyle to copy for top level terrans so they're surely as hell practicing against it. Also WTF does it matter how many times he got there? That's like saying BL/infestor isn't too strong because zerg never gets there. Dumb argument. So Morrow wins vs someone who is as skilled as him. Both players could micro better. Give both better micro. Morrow still wins?
lolwut? Do you know how to think critically? BL/Infestor is easy to get to, so we could see for 6+ months that it was too strong. 99/100 games Terrans play they will never reach this "imba composition you think is imba" because it's way too hard to get to vs good players.
How can you even say that about Morrow when he hasn't even beaten better players who have played against Ravens/Ghosts/Vikings? That's just retarded man. Think how biased and ridiculous you are being right now. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
And bullshit, Byun won that game an hour earlier with far superior micro/macro/positioning. It had nothing to do with the composition.
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 08 2013 23:28 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 23:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 08 2013 23:19 TimENT wrote:On February 08 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 08 2013 23:10 TimENT wrote:
Minigun.... Hahahahaha I wouldn't even put him top 100 toss in the world. Awesome example there buddy Would you put Morrow in the top 100 terrans? So Byun uses a similar composition (Ghost/viking, sometimes with ravens) in WoL already and nobody beats it. Byun such a scrub right. Learn to fucking read or don't reply, not gonna waste my time on people like you who have no intention of making a productive argument. Also considering Minigun was regularly #1 GM, I don't really care where you'd rank him. How many times has Byun got there? Learn to use your fucking brain. He's used the composition like ...twice... in top level play. It hasn't been played against much. No Morrow isn't top 100 either. So this conversation is irrelevant. Minigun (worse than at least 100 tosses) plays against Morrow (worse than at least 100 terrans). Both have the potential to micro and macro a million times better. Once again, learn to use your fucking brain. I can read. Byun has used that against the best protoss players in the world frequently. HerO, Rain, etc etc. There's plenty of VODs to study from, it's not a hard playstyle to copy for top level terrans so they're surely as hell practicing against it. Also WTF does it matter how many times he got there? That's like saying BL/infestor isn't too strong because zerg never gets there. Dumb argument. So Morrow wins vs someone who is as skilled as him. Both players could micro better. Give both better micro. Morrow still wins? lolwut? Do you know how to think critically? BL/Infestor is easy to get to, so we could see for 6+ months that it was too strong. 99/100 games Terrans play they will never reach this "imba composition you think is imba" because it's way too hard to get to vs good players. How can you even say that about Morrow when he hasn't even beaten better players who have played against Ravens/Ghosts/Vikings? That's just retarded man. Think how biased and ridiculous you are being right now. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL And bullshit, Byun won that game an hour earlier with far superior micro/macro/positioning. It had nothing to do with the composition.
BL/infestor isn't easy to get to when all protoss does is 3 base all in. Which is the case. If it'd been like that from the start, would you be here saying "BL/infestor isn't imba, it's just so hard to get to that nobody knows how to play against it"? Currently protoss is at its strongest in PvT during the phase where they have a 3/3 templar/colossus/chargelot army against a terran that still hasn't transitioned to mostly ghost/viking. That's where terran loses most games.
Again, read please or don't respond. I said give both players better micro, newly-improved-Morrow would logically still win the game...
If you honestly think that they're not practicing against this composition in korea then I don't know what to tell you.
Also, no. Byun won that game because he survived long enough to get to that composition. HerO had better control even when Byun got that army out but it doesn't really matter at that point. If you don't get lucky storms off on vikings or feedback every ghost (which should never happen), this army melts everything protoss can have. Mass Vikings 1 shot carriers and outrange them. PDD prevents them from taking damage. Ghosts prevent storms. Tempests don't beat vikings in a straight up fight. Terran can constantly scan, protoss observers can't see your army because of scans + ravens.
Tell me what beats it.
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I can't wait to test out these changes :D
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On February 08 2013 22:16 FoXeRpl wrote:
Just to sum up 2 last pages - helbats need to be nerfed, i think every race now is complaining about it.
They are so stupid in TvT....
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It a good patch.
Though Oracle untouched.
Though Hellbat untouched.
Though Viper/Swarm Host untouched
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On February 08 2013 23:50 derpface wrote:
It a good patch.
Though Oracle untouched.
Though Hellbat untouched.
Though Viper/Swarm Host untouched
Widow Mines oneshot Oracles now, which is definitely important for TvP
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Austria24422 Posts
I'm all for more overpowered shit for every race... just give everybody overpowered shit. It worked for BW.
I'd love it if every unit could be a threat if used correctly. But in WoL, some units just completely edge out others. I'd like it if HotS could kinda weaken this hard countering. That would, imo, lead to more variety and better expression of skill.
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On February 08 2013 15:43 Xain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 15:31 mongoose22 wrote:On February 08 2013 15:04 Ironsights wrote:
ok...dumb question maybe, but having read all 9 pages I couldn't find the answer and I don't have a beta to test this:
How does the widow mine effect Immortals? If the unstable payload is effected by hardened shields, then does the new damage change the total dealt?
Basically, I am wondering about the relationship of immortals to widow miens...if the mines CAN successfully defend tanks from immortals, I feel that mech would be much closer to viable...
anyoen clue me in? Please and thanks. The most straightforward result would be, the missile takes 35 shields off first, then does 125 damage after that. So, for an Immortal with more than 35 shields, it'd take 35 shield damage, then the Hardened Shields effect would kick in and it'd take 10 damage after that, for a total of 45 effective damage. For Immortals with 35 shields or less, the missile's shield bonus would wipe away the Immortal's remaining shields, and then the Immortal would take the 125 damage to HP, for a total of 125-160 effective damage, depending on remaining shields. That is actually not correct. The widow mine bypass the immortal's shields.
Ah, the missile is considered as a spell. That'd be my bad as someone without beta access. I'd guess that the damage would act like it would against any other Protoss unit, then, where it'd take 35 off shields and then apply 125 to shields and armor.
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On February 08 2013 23:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I'm all for more overpowered shit for every race... just give everybody overpowered shit. It worked for BW.
I'd love it if every unit could be a threat if used correctly. But in WoL, some units just completely edge out others. I'd like it if HotS could kinda weaken this hard countering. That would, imo, lead to more variety and better expression of skill.
No man, we need more splash, hard countering, lazers and insta-gibbing whole armies.
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so what's the actual use of overlord speed on t1? you're getting a lair quickly anyway in every matchup, I just don't see any particular benefits from this change. sacrificing tech speed to get an easier scout doesn't look like a good trade to me. (and early game scouting isn't that big problem for zerg. but please correct me if I'm wrong.)
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Skytoss issue still unadressed and they nerf fungal again. What.
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I am really curious, was there ever a patch that changed widow mines damage to single target only? The current one has splash damage, am I correct?
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EPT
