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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On January 15 2013 08:10 McBrungus wrote: How late are you building your Nexus that a Zerg would be able to block it with a burrowed unit? You still have to get the gas and research the ability, you know. I'm talking about taking a third base. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On January 15 2013 08:36 Existor wrote: Too much new things around new units. Reapers should recieve soft-detection. Sensors =\= detectors. Remember sensor tower? It does not detects, but just spots units in fog of war. Same for Reapers spotting burrowed units (not only in fog of war) How about a one-time use ability per reaper? - a bit similar to flare in WC3 for the mortar team. | ||
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obsid
United States389 Posts
On January 15 2013 09:09 ineversmile wrote: I'm talking about taking a third base. By the time you take a 3rd base you dont already have a robo or stargate or forge? What are you spending your gas on early dts? | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On January 15 2013 09:10 Grumbels wrote: How about a one-time use ability per reaper? - a bit similar to flare in WC3 for the mortar team. That's a pretty cool idea for the reaper! Would make them awesome at taking out tumors as well! | ||
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Nightshade_
United States549 Posts
On January 15 2013 08:36 Existor wrote: Too much new things around new units. Reapers should recieve soft-detection. Sensors =\= detectors. Remember sensor tower? It does not detects, but just spots units in fog of war. Same for Reapers spotting burrowed units (not only in fog of war) That ruins strategy. the whole POINT of burrow is to surprise your opponent, if you just have the magic unit you make 1 of because it doesnt need tech lab anymore run around the map you go "LOLOLOL" and run around baneling traps or lingroach traps etc. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
Reminds me this: | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On January 15 2013 09:13 willoc wrote: That's a pretty cool idea for the reaper! Would make them awesome at taking out tumors as well! Or they could have sensor towers sense burrowed units, just not detect them. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On January 15 2013 09:21 Excludos wrote: the "burrow unit at third base" is going to be annoying to deal with... The only problem I have with this is that it sortof forces protoss to open robotics again. Yes, the oracle have an ability to detect burrow, but its limited by energy. And if there is going to be burrowed zerg units across the entire map, then I fear it wont be enough. Well, we'll still have to wait and see. Oracle can detect and kill it, but will you defend your 3rd base with photons? Maybe better start with pylon-photon and then place nexus? Also in ZvZ 1 baneling exploding will allow to kill burrowed zergling at natural/3rd. So it looks balanced too. Also my post about this on battle.net forums • It does not ruins ZvX, because delays Lair-tech, meaning mobile detection, better anti-air and other tools. • It does not ruins ZvP, because protoss always starts with photon at Nexus-expand, so they can quickly clear burrowed Zergling and easily place expand. For 3rd base they have observers/Oracle to detect (Oracle got Core's Envision after Patch #11), and they can place quickly pylon-photon to clear burrowed Zergling too. • It refreshes ZvZ and turns early game into more positional, forcing Zerg-attacker go into tier2 instead trying to kill opponent at early game stages. With nerfed Fungal Growth against armored units it can be more interesting too. So if one Zerg did burrow, he delays Lair with all it tech like faster Roaches, Infestors, Mutalisks or other options, but it allows to defend better at tier1. Also if you know, where enemy unit is burrowed, you can explode one Baneling and kill burrowed unit without detection. • It does not ruins ZvT. Terran can already deny 3rd expand for zerg by burrowing Widow Mine. I'm not saying, is that effective or not, but Terran can unlike Zerg. Terran have scans and can build turrets anywhere. Zerg spores can be built only on creep. Also it will allow to deny Terran expand a bit, like Terran can do it now with Reaper, bunker-marine rush, Widow Mine and mixes of these units. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On January 15 2013 09:33 Grumbels wrote: Or they could have sensor towers sense burrowed units, just not detect them. I don't think detecting units is going to be big of a deal. Remember the roaches can't move underground with burrow only, so you will still see them before they burrow on your screen. Its not like they will suddenly sneak up to your base..well, not any quicker than before at least. | ||
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TimENT
United States1425 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On January 15 2013 09:18 Nightshade_ wrote: That ruins strategy. the whole POINT of burrow is to surprise your opponent, if you just have the magic unit you make 1 of because it doesnt need tech lab anymore run around the map you go "LOLOLOL" and run around baneling traps or lingroach traps etc. decrease reaper sensor range to 4-5 and it becomes less strong versus surprizes | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 15 2013 09:18 Nightshade_ wrote: That ruins strategy. the whole POINT of burrow is to surprise your opponent, if you just have the magic unit you make 1 of because it doesnt need tech lab anymore run around the map you go "LOLOLOL" and run around baneling traps or lingroach traps etc. Oh man, next thing you are going to tell me they are giving someone a flying unit that can two shot probes and can cloak with an upgrade. Man, that would be so powerful, I don't know how we could figure out builds to counter a unit like that. Yeah, no one needs new tech to deal with this. We will all be fine. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
Zerg early game aggression feels so neutered at the moment and forcing the other races to get detection before moving out is pretty baller defensively. I will be putting burrowed banes outside naturals all day long as payback for widow mines ^_^ | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On January 15 2013 09:35 Existor wrote: Oracle can detect and kill it, but will you defend your 3rd base with photons? Maybe better start with pylon-photon and then place nexus? So now we have to build a pylon and a cannon before taking our third? That's 300 more minerals and significant build time that should just be starting the nexus immediately. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On January 15 2013 10:55 ineversmile wrote: So now we have to build a pylon and a cannon before taking our third? That's 300 more minerals and significant build time that should just be starting the nexus immediately. Zerg must grow creep to place spore to kill widow mine at 3rd base, or get early lair, or explode 3 banelings to kill one widow mine which is 100 minerals and 50 gas more expensive than widow mine. | ||
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MoonCricket
222 Posts
Another option I wish Blizzard would experiment with is Hatch based Spawn Creep for Overlords so you could knock on the door of Protoss and Terran wall offs earlier, maybe combined with decreasing Spine Crawlers Burrow time to 3 seconds so you could aggressively walk them over to your opponent's base instead of proxy them. Creep spread might be an issue, but in all honesty you can just cancel a Hatchery anyway if you want to place your Creep Tumors aggressively, and using your 2nd Overlord in order to connect the Creep between your main and natural makes you a little safer vs 11/11 Barracks. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Another option I wish Blizzard would experiment with is Hatch based Spawn Creep for Overlords so you could knock on the door of Protoss and Terran wall offs earlier, maybe combined with decreasing Spine Crawlers Burrow time to 3 seconds so you could aggressively walk them over to your opponent's base instead of proxy them. You already were able to do 7pool spine rush and it was extremely strong in some cases. | ||
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