EPTBurrow at tier 1 - officially! - Page 2
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
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Fenris420
Sweden213 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:41 awesomoecalypse wrote: This would be fucking awesome. A great way to give a generalized buff to early game Zerg harass and defense, but one with economic tradeoffs and that won't make Z midgame pushes or lategame comps stronger. I am not so sure that I feel like it is necessary. After the queen range buff, many terrans have informed us of the various impracticalities of agression in the matchup and against protoss most zerg can take three bases relatively unhindered. Even the infamous immortal/sentry push comes at a time when you have lair already despite 3 bases. Not that I am against burrow as a tool, I am just wondering whether there is a specific kind of application for it in the early game that Blizzard has in mind that I don't know about. If not, then they are just adding strength to an underused ability in hopes of seeing more use out of it and that might lead to other impracticalities. Then again, if there is a time for testing stuff it is now. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Main idea What about giving Reapers mini-version of Sensor Array? Lets name it "Battlefield Awareness", like previous cliff-vision for Reapers. It will spot cloaked and burrowed units with red spots near Reaper, but not detect! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Explanation how it works Reaper will recieve a small mobile version of Sensor Array tower. Reaperwill be able to spot with red dots (like Sensor Array tower spotting units in Fog of War) burrowed and cloaked units. It will not detect, just spot with red dots, like Sensor Tower! Terran players will be able to choose: - Hm, don't walk here!! Too many red dots, dangerous zone! It may be banelings or zergling/baneling trap! - I should scan here, looks like I can kill it if I will scan at this place. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Numbers Mobile mini-sensor radius can be 5-6 or 10-11 around Reaper. So you will be able to see something burrowed or cloaked at that distance. It can be coldown based activable ability, when press ability button and Reaaper recieves temporary sensor, or just passive ability with smaller range -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TL;DR Reapers will recieve passive or coldownbased activable (for short time) ability "Mobile Sensor" which grants ability to see burrowed or cloaked units without detecting them. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:49 Fenris420 wrote: I am not so sure that I feel like it is necessary. After the queen range buff, many terrans have informed us of the various impracticalities of agression in the matchup and against protoss most zerg can take three bases relatively unhindered. Even the infamous immortal/sentry push comes at a time when you have lair already despite 3 bases. Not that I am against burrow as a tool, I am just wondering whether there is a specific kind of application for it in the early game that Blizzard has in mind that I don't know about. If not, then they are just adding strength to an underused ability in hopes of seeing more use out of it and that might lead to other impracticalities. Then again, if there is a time for testing stuff it is now. That was WoL though. Widow mines, cheaper DTs and Oracles have all expanded the other races' ability to harass pretty early in the game. More accessible burrow offers some defense against that, without being some magic fix all--researching burrow isn't without an economic tradeoff, and while burrowing your drone line may save them from dying outright, they can't really mine while they're underground. Widow Mines, Hellbats and Mothership Core have also give the other races better early defensive options, which has made it more difficult to harass, and burrow may help with that. | ||
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bobsire
Canada296 Posts
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
EDIT: I mean, it's a nice idea...I just think that there might be some problems with blocking expansions with a 25 mineral, 1/2 larva cloaked unit. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
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Habitus
United Kingdom120 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1312 Posts
*Mind blown* | ||
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UnDeaDMoNKeY
United Kingdom11 Posts
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Chloroplaste
France281 Posts
Maybe need the reaper change that suggested existor or other thing to terran if turret isnt enough, but anyway the burrow research time need to be longer. | ||
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Toads
Canada1795 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:59 ineversmile wrote: So now we need detection to build a Nexus against a zerg without lair tech? EDIT: I mean, it's a nice idea...I just think that there might be some problems with blocking expansions with a 25 mineral, 1/2 larva cloaked unit. They said if there's a probleme like that they could make it longer to research. You have a lot of time to make you nexus. Don't worry | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On January 15 2013 08:07 Toads wrote: They said if there's a probleme like that they could make it longer to research. You have a lot of time to make you nexus. Don't worry Not even to make the Nexus. If you scout early burrow, you just have to start the expansion before burrow hits, or else tech to either stargate, robo or make a forge. Burrowed lings blocking a Nexus shouldn't be a huge issue imo.. | ||
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McBrungus
United States265 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:59 ineversmile wrote: So now we need detection to build a Nexus against a zerg without lair tech? EDIT: I mean, it's a nice idea...I just think that there might be some problems with blocking expansions with a 25 mineral, 1/2 larva cloaked unit. How late are you building your Nexus that a Zerg would be able to block it with a burrowed unit? You still have to get the gas and research the ability, you know. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
It's intended as a buff to aggressive openings but all this does is increase the power of Zerg defensively. Early harassment is going to be pointless if Drones are able to burrow which forces out scans and observers. A large number of early game timings are going to be completely shut down by the possibility of Burrowed Banelings from Terran and Roaches that can burrow micro. It's the same problem I have with the Mothership Core and the Widow Mine, it limits TOO much what can be done in each match up in the early game. | ||
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Fenris420
Sweden213 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:51 awesomoecalypse wrote: That was WoL though. Widow mines, cheaper DTs and Oracles have all expanded the other races' ability to harass pretty early in the game. More accessible burrow offers some defense against that, without being some magic fix all--researching burrow isn't without an economic tradeoff, and while burrowing your drone line may save them from dying outright, they can't really mine while they're underground. Widow Mines, Hellbats and Mothership Core have also give the other races better early defensive options, which has made it more difficult to harass, and burrow may help with that. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but do you think we are seeing a lot of zergs die in the early game in hots now? I mean, cheese and one base builds are always the first to be developed so we see many kinds of rush builds, but it hardly appears to me as if zerg suffers more than other races from this. Only by first observing a problem should we attempt to fix it. The burrow change sounds like a fix to me but I can't say I feel there is a clear enough reason for it. They already made spore crawlers very available to deal with mines and DTs (which both cost more than lair/burrow either way). But we will see. I don't think it is going to make a huge difference either way. I always did think burrow was underused though. | ||
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HelloSon
United States456 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:40 baldgye wrote: so... they never want people to put on early aggression? Zerg is all about greed. You'll fall faaaar behind if you spend 100/100 early game for defensive purposes. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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