|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Since Ultralisks now deal 35 damage to all targets, they can one-shot Zerglings, 3-shot Hydralisks, 2-shot locusts (splash is extremely effective here) and they're already a counter to Roaches.
There is a crazy soft-counter with Vipers behind Ultralisks and abduct them again and again, not allowing to Ultralisks to reach other Zerg forces, such as Hydralisks or Swarm Hosts. But if enemy brings some anti-air to cover Ultralisks, they become unstopable.
Well, here is the question. How to counter Ultralisks in ZvZ? Exclude please solution with creating Ultralisks too. Also Broodlords are very slow against ultralisk, especially on creep, plus new Ultralisk atack can quickly clear all broodling waves.
|
Just micro against them. I honestly don't see the damage buff being too crazy to handle in ZvZ. I've always just rolled over anyone going ultras with roach/hydra/infestor and some stutter stepping, which is crazy good with fast hydras.
|
You forgot to mention that they will 4-shot ALL ZERGLINGS AROUND THEM due to their splash damage.
The best way to control them in ZvZ might actually be Neural Parasite and Spine Crawler walls (just create a kill zone and drag them over there with a Viper). Vipers could be an efficient way to simply drag them away from your important units.
|
On December 09 2012 02:11 McBrungus wrote:
Just micro against them. I honestly don't see the damage buff being too crazy to handle in ZvZ. I've always just rolled over anyone going ultras with roach/hydra/infestor and some stutter stepping, which is crazy good with fast hydras.
surely the ultraplayer has infestors aswell making stutterstep void with fungals. Unless hes terrible that is. the whole WoL ultra bild relies upon getting tons of infestor ling while skipping roaches to get to ultras so pure ultras, well, ive never seen it and yes, pure ultras is as easy with zerg as with mmm.
|
On December 09 2012 02:18 Rabiator wrote:
You forgot to mention that they will 4-shot ALL ZERGLINGS AROUND THEM due to their splash damage.
The best way to control them in ZvZ might actually be Neural Parasite and Spine Crawler walls (just create a kill zone and drag them over there with a Viper). Vipers could be an efficient way to simply drag them away from your important units.
Neural works on ultras in HoTS? I thought they were still immune because of frenzy.
I think that other then microing your units back again them you can also still use infested terran as a shield to stop them from attacking all together. Unless there's another change I don't know about stopping this
|
How about Roach/Viber? I know that Ultras beat roaches well when the Ultras form a front against them but what when they are Abducted into a swarm of them? Since the vibers stay with your own forces for this, it allows you to cover them with Hydra/Infestor or your own Air units.
Is it even possible to abduct an Ultra? I would think that was the kind of eff that frenzy made you immune to.
|
I actually managed to beat a guy who went mass ling ultra vs me in a ZvZ. I had the composition of having roach hydra swarm host on three bases. Honestly, it's not too difficult to beat it with just roach micro and getting ur roaches to focus fire one at a time.. they literally die in one volley and roaches can outrun ultras. Just try not to get sandwiched by his zerglings
|
You can actually make more Ultras.
|
On December 09 2012 02:18 Rabiator wrote:
You forgot to mention that they will 4-shot ALL ZERGLINGS AROUND THEM due to their splash damage.
The best way to control them in ZvZ might actually be Neural Parasite and Spine Crawler walls (just create a kill zone and drag them over there with a Viper). Vipers could be an efficient way to simply drag them away from your important units.
Do you even play zerg? You can't neural ultras.
|
On December 09 2012 02:25 Sumadin wrote:
How about Roach/Viber? I know that Ultras beat roaches well when the Ultras form a front against them but what when they are Abducted into a swarm of them? Since the vibers stay with your own forces for this, it allows you to cover them with Hydra/Infestor or your own Air units.
Is it even possible to abduct an Ultra? I would think that was the kind of eff that frenzy made you immune to.
Yes it is. Well actually, I know you can abduct your own, not sure about enemy...
|
Not much has changed. Just use Locust/Roach. Locusts do die quicker, but it's infinite free spawn. Only difference is that you have to be more positional instead of 1'a-ing your army.
|
On December 09 2012 04:51 LOLItsRyann wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 02:25 Sumadin wrote:
How about Roach/Viber? I know that Ultras beat roaches well when the Ultras form a front against them but what when they are Abducted into a swarm of them? Since the vibers stay with your own forces for this, it allows you to cover them with Hydra/Infestor or your own Air units.
Is it even possible to abduct an Ultra? I would think that was the kind of eff that frenzy made you immune to. Yes it is. Well actually, I know you can abduct your own, not sure about enemy...
you can abduct enemy ultras.
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 09 2012 04:59 viasacra89 wrote:
Not much has changed. Just use Locust/Roach. Locusts do die quicker, but it's infinite free spawn. Only difference is that you have to be more positional instead of 1'a-ing your army.
Nothing? Ultralisks can 2-3 shot every zerg unit
|
This indeed looks frightening, I hope it doesn't become a 'whoever hits ultra tech first wins' scenario. On the other hand, the ultra is a hive tech unit, it is possible to beat teching players with quite a lot of timed pushes before hive tech kicks into gear. Still, I hope there is a decent counter for this.
All I can think of is counterattack his bases with speedling groups when he attacks.
For the army itself, I suppose micro with corruption and focusing them down with speed hydras is also a possible option. All other options probably include bringing ultralisks yourself (which is of course totally possible in a ZvZ  ).
|
On December 09 2012 02:11 McBrungus wrote:
Just micro against them. I honestly don't see the damage buff being too crazy to handle in ZvZ. I've always just rolled over anyone going ultras with roach/hydra/infestor and some stutter stepping, which is crazy good with fast hydras.
I think you are underestimating just how strong of a buff that is. It used to do 15 damage to everything except armored it would do 35. Now it does 35 to everything. While I haven't seen ultras in zvz yet I can see them becoming quiet powerful. In WoL they can beat a roach/hydra army pretty easily with 5/3 upgrades and some infestor support. Now in HOTS I imagine ultra's in zvz with vipers is incredibly strong.
I actually want to go ultralisks now in zvz thanks OP for giving me an idea when both of us don't go mutalisk ^_^
|
Well there is a few things I think you are missing. If you go ultras later in the mid game you have to realize you sacrifice a lot early game. Your open to timings. If the ultra player has roaches mid game plays safe that means when ultra tech comes he came make say 4 with all other upgrades. Which isn't to bad to deal with. Roach hydra can be very cost efficient. If you can split and fight on creep. With hydra speed also I think they are fast than ultras. With hydra spa out put you can kill them quickly aslo. Don't go exclusively roach hydra either. You may need banelings or something of that sort if you go investors that works but you need to deal with the lings from other side. If you see someone playing greedy you can pressure early deny expos and stop him from getting to ultra in fisrt place. If he plays a stronger decisive he won't have a lot of ultras then.
|
you will definetly have to have an economy advantage vs an ultraplayer since ultra ling infestor viper is insanely strong vs roach hydra. but since the infestor got nerfed very hard it is now a lot harder to go safely into the ultra tech. so most likely the ultra player will have to turtle and play more defensively than in WoL now which gives good opportunities to get 1 or even 2 bases ahead as a roach infestor or roach hydra player.
so the way to go might be roach hydra + get economy advantage, add spines and tech to BLs. this is just theorycrafting but since you will need to play the same ling infestor spine style to get to ultras and that style got weaker you should be able to either kill the opponent or if he invests hardcore into defense just get way ahead in economy and be able to stall until BLs are out.
|
Don't forget, mass ling was usually countered by fungals, because lings die very quickly when they get fungaled. With the projectile change, lings could potentially be a lot harder to catch, which makes ling-inf-ultra a lot stronger as well.
|
Roach hydra with infested terran walls to block the ultras should still work. Also don't forget brood lords!
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Roach hydra with infested terran walls to block the ultras should still work.
Infested terrans can be 2-shot-killed by ultras with 35 dmg
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
