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Sup TL,
We all know reaper in the early WoL era was very overpowered against zerg with the 5 rax reaper rush strategy.The reason reaper was extremely powerful because it could take down buildings and the queen range was only 3 at the time.
Now in Hots, reaper have a normal otherwise miniscule damage against building, making them only viable in picking off workers and light units. In the interest of promoting more variety of early game play options in TvX matches, I think the factory requirement of the nitro pack should be eliminated so reapers become a better early option.
I feel the reaper is becoming the forgotten unit, especially because it can't be used anywhere but the early game. It should at least be a good early game unit, but not OP. The new ranged queen and MC should be able to handle the reaper if handled properly.
Thanks for reading.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Agree, they're already coming later with barracks after supply, and zergs got 5-range queens.
Eh, those old awesome times, when I've tried to defend my drones and slowlings from spedreapers, it was fun as zerg during wol beta 
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You are aware that reapers already received a buff in HOTS right? Reapers can see up cliffs and have their own personalized medivacs. I don't know how youve been using the reaper but three rax reaper builds are extremely powerful in in TvZ and TvT. If you made the nitro pack upgrade a default upgrade, reapers would be imba.
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Don't forget that Roaches only had 3 range too.
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On November 08 2012 07:59 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
You are aware that reapers already received a buff in HOTS right? Reapers can see up cliffs and have their own personalized medivacs. I don't know how youve been using the reaper but three rax reaper builds are extremely powerful in in TvZ and TvT. If you made the nitro pack upgrade a default upgrade, reapers would be imba.
I think he's just asking for it to be bumped up to Rax instead of Factory.
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On November 08 2012 07:59 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
You are aware that reapers already received a buff in HOTS right? Reapers can see up cliffs and have their own personalized medivacs. I don't know how youve been using the reaper but three rax reaper builds are extremely powerful in in TvZ and TvT. If you made the nitro pack upgrade a default upgrade, reapers would be imba.
I think there is a good point to be made about putting nitro back to techlab only tech, and this could be balanced easily with a buildtime mod for the upg (increased 20ish sec) if need be.
The original nerf was done before buffs recieved to the natural counters to reapers, and without the anti-building attack the reaper threat is significantly less powerful (no more oops no more pylon effect, or sorry about your spire/roachwarren/pool etc...). The OP makes a good point and i wish somone would test it  .
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wow, this sounds interesting, totally didn't consider that...
would this ruin 2v2 again though?
I think i would rather have nitro pack be at the barracks, and them not have healing. Honestly, doesn't self healing feel really weird on that sort of terran unit? it feels forced... there should be a way for reaper drops to work or reapers to be used later in the game too (i was sure they could figure out a way to make them work lategame vs mass zealot, because even though they are gas expensive and take long to build, terran already has a large gas bank and reapers are 1 supply, but now they have battle hellions for that role)
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At first glance it doesn't seem like a bad idea. I can't think of anything where it could be abused.
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I win like 90% of my TvT games with 3 Rax Reaper Expand into Bio. It's truth that Reaper is only good early game, but not so sure about an earlier speed upgrade. Healing when out of combat is like really good, since not matter how much damage you deal to your opponent(T), it's like free damage, and not to mention Reapers own Marines.
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If you were to bring the nitro pack back to barracks, maybe it could be nerfed a bit to compensate for the other new reaper benefits. A nerf could be like added time for research or cost bump to 100/100.
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I'd say hell yes, but this would pretty much guarantee everyone going reaper openings most of the time in TvT.
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On November 08 2012 07:06 sona wrote:
Sup TL,
We all know reaper in the early WoL era was very overpowered against zerg with the 5 rax reaper rush strategy.The reason reaper was extremely powerful because it could take down buildings and the queen range was only 3 at the time.
Now in Hots, reaper have a normal otherwise miniscule damage against building, making them only viable in picking off workers and light units. In the interest of promoting more variety of early game play options in TvX matches, I think the factory requirement of the nitro pack should be eliminated so reapers become a better early option.
I feel the reaper is becoming the forgotten unit, especially because it can't be used anywhere but the early game. It should at least be a good early game unit, but not OP. The new ranged queen and MC should be able to handle the reaper if handled properly.
Thanks for reading.
Totally agree. If they are early game, then why make them only usable in the mid game? Its ridiculous. Reapers need that upgrade or they get killed immediately.
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Totally agree as well. By giving terran more early game options, it solidifies the argument that they don't need a new unit (or at least quiets the whimpers). Reworking the reaper into a good opening option instead of a slight build order deviation is a good move.
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On November 08 2012 11:11 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
I'd say hell yes, but this would pretty much guarantee everyone going reaper openings most of the time in TvT.
If you scout it in time, could always go bunker + marines until tank/marauder comes out. If the opponent does make reapers, they are force to do damage or else they will fall behind.
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I suppose the point was to do a mass reaper marine medivac mid game play.
But frankly the cost of such as army is too high.
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I'd probably want to wait a little before bumping Nitro pack back to rax. Reapers have already recieved a few buffs in HotS. We should probably wait and see how it turns out, how much reapers are used a few months into HotS. If reapers are neglected then like they are now your change can be reconsidered. Besides, you want reapers to be used in the midgame right? If so, Nitro pack are fine on factory imo.
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Roach range 4 actually fixed every problem Reapers made except the Speed Upgrade. It is to strong to be available with Tech lab only. Sure they could make it 100/100 and increase the research time. But at the end it would be weaker then getting your factory out asap. (you would have no factory obviously, just the upgrade)
Speed Reaper in the early game couldn't be stopped though, especially with self heal. Queen and slow Roach wouldn't matter same as lings (who can help defending against Reapers on creep, if Reapers had speed they could not). So Imo the Speed Upgrade is at the perfect spot.
Not that I worry that Blizzard doesn't know about the issues that early speed gives, they realized it after their overhasty fixes to the Reaper in WoL.
Also Speed Upgrade is the doom of mass chargelots in the lategame. Reapers are just better marines in TvP, except from their production time.
Would be fun though if the speed upgrade would come hand in hand with a build time reduction. On the other hand it takes alot of skill to slowly replace your Marines with Reapers in the lategame.
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Bringin back Niitro pack would need the reaper to loose all its hots buffs which are already ridiculous. Best option is to remove it completely
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Reapers are already strong enough as it is again especially in TvT and possibly in TvZ.
Nitro pack should just be removed and possible be replaced with something that gives the reapers a lategame (like a HP buff or some other cool feature but NOT a buff to harassment like speed).
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On November 08 2012 13:11 sona wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 11:11 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
I'd say hell yes, but this would pretty much guarantee everyone going reaper openings most of the time in TvT. If you scout it in time, could always go bunker + marines until tank/marauder comes out. If the opponent does make reapers, they are force to do damage or else they will fall behind.
The thing is, it's so easy to deal damage with reapers now that they virtually always pay for themselves. Plus, a bunker has to be in a fixed position which means that you'll always be vulnerable to reaper attacks somewhere. Currently, the best way to counter reaper is just to scout and build a fast marauder, but even that doesnt always work. That being said, I think this change would be good and makes sense.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 08 2012 12:51 People_0f_Color wrote:
Totally agree as well. By giving terran more early game options, it solidifies the argument that they don't need a new unit (or at least quiets the whimpers). Reworking the reaper into a good opening option instead of a slight build order deviation is a good move.
I don't think you realise why Terran's want a new unit. We want a lategame unit not an early-game unit. Currently most Terran's lategame revolves around support for T1 units (Marines).
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On November 09 2012 22:25 Markwerf wrote:
Reapers are already strong enough as it is again especially in TvT and possibly in TvZ.
Nitro pack should just be removed and possible be replaced with something that gives the reapers a lategame (like a HP buff or some other cool feature but NOT a buff to harassment like speed).
Such as the anti building damage back as an upgrade. They definately boosted as early game harrasment against other T (I really never noticed that terran would need more early game openings), but at the same time they wered nerfed mid game. While its anti building attack was a bit of a gimmick, it could do fun stuff mid game (even late if you are bored). While it got replaced with sight up cliffs (which is imo both a bad idea early game and useless mid/late game) and autoheal (nice early game, not incredibly useful later on).
Honestly I never understood the new reaper. It helps where we dont need help, and it was nerfed where we do need help. And I am especially afraid that the sight up cliffs results into boring gameplay and reduces the number of openings: nice if you get another opening (reapers), but if that makes 4 other openings useless, the total number of openings decreased.
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Atm, reapers are useless in TvZ and TvP, why ? Because zergs have queens and protoss have stalkers. Both of them have auto regen, like reaper, and it's why reaper is only useful in TvT. You can attack a pack of marines, and back to regen, u can't attack a stalker or a queen and back, because when u come back, there will be 2 queens / stalkers full-life.
To be useful in TvZ / TvP, reapers need :
-a better early use (nitro pack ? build time reduced ?)
-or an mid / late game upgrade (like all other units : lings / crackling, stalker / blink, marines / stim + shield...)
So, yeah in TvT, reapers are fine and we have cool opening, but in TvZ / TvP, there are useless all the time.
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Agreed, they also did things like nerf reaper and barrack and bunker build time (all helps vs this strat), and buff roach range so reapers can't kite them (shame if you ask me). Conclusion: this strat can use some help!!!
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The reaper rush days are long gone. Reapers are a terribly weak unit and need a buff, enough said.
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This would make reapers way to strong in the early game.
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Perhaps there should be a range upgrade for the reaper (replacing nitro pack) to make it usable with bio terran mix.
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On November 08 2012 07:06 sona wrote:
Sup TL,
We all know reaper in the early WoL era was very overpowered against zerg with the 5 rax reaper rush strategy.The reason reaper was extremely powerful because it could take down buildings and the queen range was only 3 at the time.
Now in Hots, reaper have a normal otherwise miniscule damage against building, making them only viable in picking off workers and light units. In the interest of promoting more variety of early game play options in TvX matches, I think the factory requirement of the nitro pack should be eliminated so reapers become a better early option.
I feel the reaper is becoming the forgotten unit, especially because it can't be used anywhere but the early game. It should at least be a good early game unit, but not OP. The new ranged queen and MC should be able to handle the reaper if handled properly.
Thanks for reading.
Agreed.
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Why not just have an upgrade on the ebay that lets reactors produce reapers? That way the build time wouldn't be as lomg to make them, and you could actually get a few late game. System for it is already there to with the campaign
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Agreed, however like others I think nitro packs should be nerfed slightly to compensate.
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On November 11 2012 09:00 Kronos92 wrote:
Why not just have an upgrade on the ebay that lets reactors produce reapers? That way the build time wouldn't be as lomg to make them, and you could actually get a few late game. System for it is already there to with the campaign
This is a pretty sick idea too. I also wish there was a way for them to get their anti building weapon as a late game upgrade.
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Even if you move the upgrade back to Rax, they would still be useless past early harassment TvT.
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early game reaper are awesome for scouting and slight harrass in HOTS again. move in with reaper, kill 1-2 worker, move out, regenerate, move in again while scouting everything is awesome. they get used A LOT in TvT and pretty often in TvZ (although widow mine is so strong that reaper is overshadowed).
then just give the reaper a lategame upgrade that gives them the antibuilding attack back and/or the speedupgrade so you can use them mid- and lategame.
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Personally, I think stim would really benefit reapers at this point.
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United States7483 Posts
Honestly, reapers should be buffed substantially, but also require a tech upgrade to build them at all, which will allow for them to be a mid-late game unit and not overpowered in a rush.
Maybe do something like require Ghost Academy or even the Fusion Core to build reapers, but make them much stronger.
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On November 08 2012 08:34 TranceKuja wrote:
Don't forget that Roaches only had 3 range too.
And Queens had less range too...
Reapers were so overnerfed.
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On November 15 2012 04:38 Whitewing wrote:
Honestly, reapers should be buffed substantially, but also require a tech upgrade to build them at all, which will allow for them to be a mid-late game unit and not overpowered in a rush.
Maybe do something like require Ghost Academy or even the Fusion Core to build reapers, but make them much stronger.
They need an upgrade to compensate slow rebuild and low hp. Both lings and zealots have late game upgrades that make them viable late game core units. Attack speed upgrade and charge.
Why not reaper?
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People in this thread talking about how reapers are so strong, have you even played the game since 2011? /boggled
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I don't see how earlier nitro packs solves any of the problems with the Reaper.
The unit lacks a role once 1 stalker its the field and acts as a completely one-sided harassment option. You either destroy your opponents economy, or (currently) rarely do enough damage to justify the investment.
Reapers are fine in the early game, but there is really NO reason to continue making them past the first few minutes of gameplay. Earlier nitro packs only makes them OP in the early game and does nothing for their continued viability.
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Awe man I forgot they got rid of the building grenades. Nothing more fun than 100 reaper army in 4v4 killing a whole base in a matter of seconds and running away
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bring back the speed to the rax but make it work like a spell, like 10 seconds of speed buff
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While i like the idea of speed back to rax tech, I would rather see them remove nitro packs completatly from the game, and give reapers a slight movespeed increase to make them better right of the bat. Do this and make the healing ability a 50.50 upg requiring techlab only and then you have a slightly better, more effective opening unit.
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What do you guys think of adding the point defens drone abilty on the repear instead. Makes it abel to haras zerg and toss better. Since point defense drone nullifies queen and stalker attack
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On November 16 2012 04:23 Anomi wrote:
What do you guys think of adding the point defens drone abilty on the repear instead. Makes it abel to haras zerg and toss better. Since point defense drone nullifies queen and stalker attack
this would make every protoss cry. they are counters to zealots and sentries by default, if you add pdd to that even stalkers can't deal with them properly. i am a terran and i would love that change but it is not realistic
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