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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 26 2012 17:41 aka_star wrote: It sounds like one big giant premature ejaculation to me... How can you trumpet this without giving it some time Exactly. I think that the whole community is overreacting. | ||
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MasterCynical
505 Posts
Lategame PvT is now going to be Templar/Oracle or Oracle/Colossus but not both because of gas limitations. We will see Protoss players get more ballsy with their early stalkers and gateway units in general since the Oracle can balance the slow from Marauders. see how easy that was? | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4542 Posts
On October 26 2012 18:02 MasterCynical wrote: Well if everyone else can see the future... SO CAN I NOW. Lategame PvT is now going to be Templar/Oracle or Oracle/Colossus but not both because of gas limitations. We will see Protoss players get more ballsy with their early stalkers and gateway units in general since the Oracle can balance the slow from Marauders. see how easy that was? oracles won't come out before 3rd base lol, otherwise a standard medivac push just rolls the protoss over. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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Asgeir
Norway12 Posts
Tho, I would like to see a version of the spell that also slow mining and firing speed but might reduce the percentage a bit. This would make the spell better for harass and defence, and not so "you can't escape my deathball lol". | ||
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TalonBot
Greece28 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Fiallach
France38 Posts
I think the idea is awesome, for reasons stated above, but the timeslow + storm, or even colossi seems a bit strong. I think a cool idea would be to put a short time for the oracle to cast it, like 2 seconds ( blizzard seconds). It would make the harrasment more interesting, less shift move/cast/go out ( a banshee needs to stay in the base a few second to kill even one probe), and would make it more difficult to cast on an army ( it's possible for a bioball to stim and start to run away, or zerg ball to retreat,etc...). Fun micro and tension i feel. Just my two cent. Glad to be finally part of TL  | ||
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K_osss
United States113 Posts
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Maxyim
430 Posts
On October 26 2012 08:58 WeRRa wrote: Widow Mines hardly do AoE and tanks+ravens in tvp in wich troll world do you live? Terran got 1 semi useful spell wich is emp and this only saves you of getting totally owned by protoss AoE and now another one, really no need for it. Widow Mines do plenty of AoE. Tanks in TvP is the new metagame in HotS. I take it that you are not in beta? I live on Earth. EMP, that's one that I left off, thanks. Semi-useful? That's cute. Thank you for your input. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:16 Maxyim wrote: Widow Mines do plenty of AoE. Tanks in TvP is the new metagame in HotS. I take it that you are not in beta? I live on Earth. EMP, that's one that I left off, thanks. Semi-useful? That's cute. Thank you for your input. I live on Earth too and have HOTS, and Tanks are still terrible in TvP. The Widow Mine and Hellbats are more effective in combination with standard MMM than with Tanks. I haven't lost one game to Mech Terran in HOTS, but several versus MMM + Widow Mines and Hellbats, and a few more to 1 base all-ins based around the Widow Mine. On October 26 2012 19:55 TalonBot wrote: aoe slow along with force fields and storms ! ouch ! Yep, this change is probably game breaking to TvP. MMM will die. | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
On October 26 2012 17:58 Ramiz1989 wrote: Exactly. I think that the whole community is overreacting. The same way we complain without giving it time. It seems like it fulfills the usefulness of FF (making gateway units better without making high tech units better) without removing the opponent's opportunity to micro. We like micro, and acknowledge that gateway units are awful without the control of an FF or a Time Warp. Therefore, the addition of an FF which allows for micro seems like a good addition. Using reason, we can draw these conclusions are *possible* given the right stats. We don't know if it'll have those stats, but this is one of the rare times in which it is *possible* for an ability to make the game better. Why shouldn't we be happy about that - especially if we are willing to decry units that "just look like an awfully designed unit" (like the Warhound, which fits that assessment IMO)? Yep, this change is probably game breaking to TvP. MMM will die. Can't I already FF you into storms anyway? And I don't need to unlock a new tech path to do that. And I can warp them into the field of battle. And having sentries and templar on the same battlefield hasn't "killed MMM in TvP yet". Why not? They both take a boatload of gas, so for every FF I use to "lock you into" storm, it eats into the amount of storms that I can possibly have. Same deal with Time Warp, but moreso, since stargates are built using gas (and Oracles cost more gas than sentries). | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4542 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:16 Maxyim wrote: Widow Mines do plenty of AoE. Tanks in TvP is the new metagame in HotS. I take it that you are not in beta? I live on Earth. EMP, that's one that I left off, thanks. Semi-useful? That's cute. Thank you for your input. "Tanks in TvP is the new metagame in HotS." LOL why make such blatant lies? Even morrow has given up on mech now, he made a nicely detailed post on bnet as to why it sucks. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Not sure how big the field is and how long it lasts, but every worker inside mines at half speed. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:34 Treehead wrote: The same way we complain without giving it time. It seems like it fulfills the usefulness of FF (making gateway units better without making high tech units better) without removing the opponent's opportunity to micro. We like micro, and acknowledge that gateway units are awful without the control of an FF or a Time Warp. Therefore, the addition of an FF which allows for micro seems like a good addition. Using reason, we can draw these conclusions are *possible* given the right stats. We don't know if it'll have those stats, but this is one of the rare times in which it is *possible* for an ability to make the game better. Why shouldn't we be happy about that - especially if we are willing to decry units that "just look like an awfully designed unit" (like the Warhound, which fits that assessment IMO)? Can't I already FF you into storms anyway? And I don't need to unlock a new tech path to do that. And I can warp them into the field of battle. And having sentries and templar on the same battlefield hasn't "killed MMM in TvP yet". Why not? They both take a boatload of gas, so for every FF I use to "lock you into" storm, it eats into the amount of storms that I can possibly have. Same deal with Time Warp, but moreso, since stargates are built using gas (and Oracles cost more gas than sentries). How can you say that a slow aoe doesnt remove opportunity to micro? And how can you say that this spell doesnt make high tech units better? Gateway units may suck early game but ask your self why a late game protoss army PvT has 25 zealots in it. | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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Endall
United States66 Posts
On October 26 2012 00:08 vthree wrote: Not sure if another AoE is need for Protoss. Time wrap plus storm seems like a deadly combo. I agree, but doesn't brood lord and infestor sounds crazy as well? Or Archon and vortex? There are many deadly combo's that require the timing and micro to pull off. But we shall see I guess, it does seem OP on paper atm. | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On October 27 2012 01:21 Endall wrote: I agree, but doesn't brood lord and infestor sounds crazy as well? Or Archon and vortex? There are many deadly combo's that require the timing and micro to pull off. But we shall see I guess, it does seem OP on paper atm. I just can't wait for speed warp prism with templars and oracle support. You thought storm drops were fun before... More than twice the micro for twice the reward. | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
On October 27 2012 00:55 Fjodorov wrote: How can you say that a slow aoe doesnt remove opportunity to micro? And how can you say that this spell doesnt make high tech units better? Gateway units may suck early game but ask your self why a late game protoss army PvT has 25 zealots in it. The micro is the same, the units just move slower. Kiting works exactly the same, it's just less effective while in the zone. Compare to FF: where kiting is... well, you just never get to kite. It doesn't make high tech units better because there's an oppotunity cost (primarily, related to gas as a limiting factor for tech unit production. For every Oracle you make, you'll make 1 less templar if gas is the limiting factor (which is usually the case) - and when you construct your stargate, you're giving up an additional 1 templar. Are 3 Templar and 2 Oracles better than 6 Templar? Perhaps. Perhaps not (this is why you never see protoss building up a ton of sentries and a ton of templar, even though sentries could prevent you from leaving storms). It probably depends. The reason they work so brilliantly with zealots and stalkers is that these units are more mineral-focused in what it takes to make them. PvT includes a lot of chargelot play for three reasons: the first is as previously stated - everything powerful takes gas and the zealot is the only mineral-only unit protoss has. The second is that charge adds an amazing (this is a tech ability) amount of usefulness to the zealot. The third is that terran has no unit which counters the zealot as hard as the marauder (one of the staples of MMM) counters the stalker (the other mineral-heavy-ish unit for protoss). One of these reasons zealots are involved in the lategame is out of necessity. One of these reasons zealots are involved in the lategame is because of a tech that comes out pretty late. One of these reasons zealots are involved in the lategame is not true in heart of the swarm (hellbats are very much so cost-efficient against zealots). | ||
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