EPTTvP Mech still not viable? - Page 17
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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never_Nal
Costa Rica676 Posts
 , also you are trying to fix a problem just with widow mines, have you tried less hellbats mor siege tanks?, a much more spread siege line?, or maybe using seeker missels in the mix with a couple of banshees for extra damage?, honestly I find mech the strings composition on the game, even if they mass immortals | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On December 10 2012 03:31 awesomoecalypse wrote: If Tanks had an upgrade to deal +30% damage vs shields, that would help a lot vs Archons (and Toss in general, without effecting any other matchup or making 1/1/1 timing pushes stronger. It seems like a pretty easy fix. more damage versus shields? Why aren't you just making ghosts? | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10357 Posts
On December 10 2012 03:25 Maxd11 wrote: I think vikings can be phased out in exchange for turrets/ widow mines for drop defense and techlab starport tech for handling those larger units. Seeker + emp kills collosus, imortals, archons now but feedback is still the biggest problem. If that's the biggest problem, then it's good news cus snipe and emp outrange HTs  Also can anyone fill me in on the uses of widow mines please? I need a short short dumbie's guide to them, heheh. And when to use the upgrade, etc. Can you use them in battles, how to micro, etc. | ||
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RandomMan
44 Posts
I think vikings can be phased out in exchange for turrets/ widow mines for drop defense and techlab starport tech for handling those larger units. Seeker + emp kills collosus, imortals, archons now but feedback is still the biggest problem. feedback is a problem? seeker missile has 10 casting range, how many casting range is feedback? how on earth HT can feedback raven when raven protected by tank firepower, which clearly out range feedback range? you do not event need emp now cause seeker missile 1 shot immortal, while colossus left 50 hp, archon left 50 sp + 10 hp, which will be wipe off by long range tank fire + new thor A move attack. | ||
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RandomMan
44 Posts
Also can anyone fill me in on the uses of widow mines please? I need a short short dumbie's guide to them, heheh. And when to use the upgrade, etc. Can you use them in battles, how to micro, etc. upgraded widow mines + speed medivac is a very potent drop harrass option | ||
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 10 2012 03:08 SarcasmMonster wrote: Lots of you guys are recommending getting Ravens. Is the new Seeker Missile really useful? I'm not even using Hunter Seeker. It's not even worth it compared to PDDs and Turrets to help damage archons/zealots/air. PDDs and Turrets combined are a much better energy usage as ghost tank deals with pretty much everything ground based as long as you hit really nice EMPs. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
The only use of them against toss I have seen is either playing burrowed zergling, anti-oracle, oh-my-god he is playing aggressive and hellions are useless against stalkers, and it can be reasonable to burrow them between your tanks if he blinks on top of them. Honestly the number 1 error i feel I make against toss is making widow mines. Every single time they dissapoint me again. Really? not Viable, weird thing is I play mech on WoL in TvP and works perfectly to be honest, its just a very different style,,positional and tactical game, maybe you should watch and learn from BW this type of play , also you are trying to fix a problem just with widow mines, have you tried less hellbats mor siege tanks?, a much more spread siege line?, or maybe using seeker missels in the mix with a couple of banshees for extra damage?, honestly I find mech the strings composition on the game, even if they mass immortals From your post I get the idea you dont have HotS. HotS is not the same as WoL, it also isnt the same as BW. So it might be better to look at HotS for figuring out how to mech. A widely spread siege line against toss just doesnt work, if you play mech in WoL you should know that. Against zerg you can do it since their main units are melee, so even with a spread out line he gets in range of most tanks when he attacks one. Against terran you can do it since tanks are just good against bio. Toss has quite mobile units with good range and very strong: They will just kill you one tank at a time. Anyway your post shows pretty much the problem, it isnt hard to find counters, it is hard to find gas for them. Ravens should do very nicely to augment a mech army against toss. Of course you also need vikings, banshees apparently (honestly they just die horribly against enemy main army), and ghosts are also always nice. And then you are at my number 2 reason for dying: not enough tanks, too much crap to support the tanks. Finally a second time: WoL != HotS. In WoL I was quite succesfull in mech vs toss (relative to my other matchups obviously). But while mech got a few additions, toss also got some changes which really help them. Their much better air which rapes mech quite badly, their mcore which really hurts mech openings, etc. Most importantly, they now see terrans meching. In WoL all terrans nicely follow the BOs of the pros, and for them bio is the way to go. Which makes sure the toss dont have a clue what to do against mech. In HotS thats not the case, and I cant get mech really to work for me. Now it is just waiting on the moment when toss realise that when they add a few carriers to their tempest balls PDDs become useless. | ||
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pOriishan
45 Posts
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Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
It turns into a huge game of "If I EMP, I win, if they snipe the ghosts or I have none, I lose". It isn't fun game design in PvZ with the Mothership and it isn't here. My personal suggestion is to change the way Hardened Shields works to have an internal cooldown longer than the siege shots (or make it an active ability like QXC suggested), so at least the Protoss army wouldn't be able to take 30+ tank volleys and still have 3/4 of their deathball alive. | ||
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pOriishan
45 Posts
On December 10 2012 05:01 Sissors wrote: Now it is just waiting on the moment when toss realise that when they add a few carriers to their tempest balls PDDs become useless. You have to get vikings for AA and thors + hellbats + ghosts against tempest and carriers. Yeah hellbats helions in case toss warp out 50 charglots to rape your thors | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
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Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
Also can anyone fill me in on the uses of widow mines please? I need a short short dumbie's guide to them, heheh. And when to use the upgrade, etc. Can you use them in battles, how to micro, etc. They're supposed to be for space control, but the use seems to be limited to trying to survive early game mech openers and limited harass possibilities because once you burrow the mine and get a shot off it's extremely unlikely that mine is getting away without a dropship hanging around. | ||
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Zahir
United States947 Posts
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Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
On December 10 2012 05:09 TheFrankOne wrote: So, how do mech terran deal with fast blink builds? I have been going for 2 base 8 gate blink all ins and they have been working phenomenally. I get out a robo for obs but even if it gets sniped I can roll in my MS core to provide vision. Except for daybreak i think it works on every map, becasue there's someplace you can blink up into the main. I haven't seen any streamers have much luck against MSC/blink builds unless they go heavy bio. Mines take too long to recharge, bunkers are basically useless with only man-with-gun and none of the early mech units hold up under sustained aggression well. Morrow might have figured out a decent defense, but I haven't seen it yet. | ||
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Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
On December 10 2012 05:12 Zahir wrote: How do thors fare in the current tvp meta game? They were great dps AND tanks in WoL but failed due to vulnerability vs feedback and weakness to immortals... Do they do any better now that they have no energy? Also I heard the thors high impact mode can be vs collosi... In my mind, heavy Thor based compositions with hellbat, tank and possibly ghost support should be great vs toss. From what I have seen with the recent buff they are pretty strong in the current build...they get hard countered by Immortals (but what mech unit doesn't?). I think it's cool they've added the active AA switching, but mech is supposed to be built around the siege tank. There was a nice post outlining why Thors, Warhounds, etc are not mech units because they operate functionally the same as Bio except for a different skin and upgrade path. Having to go mass Thor/Hellbat with ghost support seems a pretty lame "mech" style, even if it's effective. | ||
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Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
On December 10 2012 03:43 RandomMan wrote: feedback is a problem? seeker missile has 10 casting range, how many casting range is feedback? how on earth HT can feedback raven when raven protected by tank firepower, which clearly out range feedback range? you do not event need emp now cause seeker missile 1 shot immortal, while colossus left 50 hp, archon left 50 sp + 10 hp, which will be wipe off by long range tank fire + new thor A move attack. So now we're going tank/hellbat/thor/ghost/raven/viking/banshee? Seems like you're stretching yourself too thin, especially since HSM has such a long recharge time on the energy. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Now it is just waiting on the moment when toss realise that when they add a few carriers to their tempest balls PDDs become useless. The way I play mech against Toss that isn't going to be a problem for me. I push with turrets/depot walls on the side of me while slowly creeping through the map. The PDDs go over my army since I can never really be agressive with the vikings/thors anyway or they die to everything else the toss has. My style heavily revolves around pushing super slow and safe, while also moving around with hellions to hurass. So now we're going tank/hellbat/thor/ghost/raven/viking/banshee? Seems like you're stretching yourself too thin, especially since HSM has such a long recharge time on the energy. Not sure if this is towards me, but I don't bother with banshees, get minimal thors, around 6 ghosts/ravens and minimal vikings depending on the situation. The main unit you really want is tanks, because even though immortals hard counter them, they can still be really good with decent support. Also to the guy you were replying too, HSM really is useless, just use auto-turrets and PDD. You'll have a much better time. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On December 10 2012 05:09 TheFrankOne wrote: So, how do mech terran deal with fast blink builds? I have been going for 2 base 8 gate blink all ins and they have been working phenomenally. I get out a robo for obs but even if it gets sniped I can roll in my MS core to provide vision. Except for daybreak i think it works on every map, becasue there's someplace you can blink up into the main. I love to be proven wrong, but I seriously doubt there is a mech counter to blink (all-ins). You dont just lack mobility, but you also lack the ability to make the toss lack mobility. Zerg has infestors/speedlings which can hamper the toss's retreat, and also speedroaches for example will be able to keep up quite reasonably with blink stalkers. Terran bio has marauders which will slow down some of them stalkers, and just like zerg they can also directly follow the stalkers when they try to retreat. So a mech army not only has the issue of obvious immobility to defend against stalkers, they also dont really have the ability to punish a toss for making an error with his blink stalkers, he can always retreat and a mech army cant do anything about it. The way I play mech against Toss that isn't going to be a problem for me. I push with turrets/depot walls on the side of me while slowly creeping through the map. The PDDs go over my army since I can never really be agressive with the vikings/thors anyway or they die to everything else the toss has. A carrier will still make your PDDs fairly useless, since the interceptors drain its energy so fast. | ||
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