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On November 20 2012 10:12 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 08:05 Psychobabas wrote:
All they need to do is remove the energy from Thor to allow a mech army to withstand some damage. I'm honestly not seeing how the thor will do anything. They still get owned by immortals and barely do anything to archons/zealots. Those three units are what make mech really hard, not stalkers (the only unit thors are good against).
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On November 20 2012 10:12 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 08:05 Psychobabas wrote:
All they need to do is remove the energy from Thor to allow a mech army to withstand some damage. I'm honestly not seeing how the thor will do anything. They still get owned by immortals and barely do anything to archons/zealots. Those three units are what make mech really hard, not stalkers (the only unit thors are good against).
zealots are not really a problem with some hellbats... archons are owned by tanks probably... but immortals....
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On November 20 2012 15:21 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 10:12 Qikz wrote:On November 20 2012 08:05 Psychobabas wrote:
All they need to do is remove the energy from Thor to allow a mech army to withstand some damage. I'm honestly not seeing how the thor will do anything. They still get owned by immortals and barely do anything to archons/zealots. Those three units are what make mech really hard, not stalkers (the only unit thors are good against). zealots are not really a problem with some hellbats... archons are owned by tanks probably... but immortals....
Archons wreck tanks. Their huge, so splash does not really affect them. They have alot of health. And they aren't armored, thus taking minimum damage against Tanks and Hellions.
And Immortals -__-. Usually in Mech I personally die because I simply don't have enough core Tank + Hellion because I've spent all my supply on Vikings and Ghosts.
The State of Mech : You can only pick 2, but you need all three.
Tank+Hellion
Viking
Ghost
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On November 07 2012 07:52 baldgye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 07:35 Sissors wrote:On November 07 2012 07:14 baldgye wrote:On November 07 2012 07:12 Sissors wrote:
Lately I have been trying mech vs toss in WOL (diamond). And I would call it exactly the opposite: Mech is not viable, and any viability it has comes due to protoss bad unit composition and often just being completely stupid, and still they can win often enough with that.
To clarify: the stupid part comes from many toss who dont change anything in their unit composition, follow their plan blindly, and do a frontal assault on the complete mech army (no siege tanks defending other locations since you cant afford to weaken your main army) with 2-3 immortals in their army.
The bad unit composition comes from their lack of blink stalkers/generally abusing lack of mobility. They dont realise that while terran bio has slightly more mobility than a toss army, a toss army has far more mobility than a terran mech army. Now BFHs are great against zealot warpins/DTs, and quite often running BFHs into a toss expansion is like stealing candy from a baby. But there is simply nothing in a mech army that can deal with blink stalkers raiding. BFHs dont do anything, and sure you can place siege tanks on strategic locations, but that really isnt realistic against any decent sized group of blink stalkers.
TL;DR: My personal experience is that the only reason mech works slightly, is because protoss dont have experience playing against it. So.... you think its not viable becasue protoss's do dumb attacks that kill you out-right? Summarized: yes. Even with dumb attacks that play right into the hands of mech instead of abusing its massive weaknesses against toss they can often enough still win. A frontal assault on a sieged up mech army which has no units defending other locations is pretty much the wet dream of a mech army. Yet still then toss has a good chance to beat it. What do you think will happen when they start considering the weaknesses of a mech army? If you're dying to mech from out right pushed from protoss, then you're not meching correctally. Mech dsn't just die straight out to gateway/robo immortal pushes, unless your doing something wrong. With mines you can slow down protoss's attacks and counter with hellion run bys while defending and not dying. It's possible its just harder than going bio becasue that's what every terran is used to only ever doing. If you play the build right you start off with units that not only help deal with protoss's 2base pushes, but delay them to such an extent that they just don't happen at all. Banshee's, Helions, Widdow Mines... terran has the best way to contain and do early economy damage, and going mech only makes that stronger.
Widowmine, hellion and banshee can all be negated with just simple warpin stalker or w/e and simcitying correctly. It not that hard to not be contain. What Scissor is saying is that even if you go to late game, you will still lose with a mech army even when you are position correctly and everything. Even if you seige your tanks perfectly, the best you can achieve is maybe be SLIGHTLY more cost effective if the protoss control perfectly. Generally, the protoss can just a-move with a good chunk of immortal and still win against your mech army. When protoss late game is stronger than mech army and more mobile, mech just wont work. It been explored to death in WoL and not looking to promising in HOTS too.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On November 20 2012 15:21 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 10:12 Qikz wrote:On November 20 2012 08:05 Psychobabas wrote:
All they need to do is remove the energy from Thor to allow a mech army to withstand some damage. I'm honestly not seeing how the thor will do anything. They still get owned by immortals and barely do anything to archons/zealots. Those three units are what make mech really hard, not stalkers (the only unit thors are good against). zealots are not really a problem with some hellbats... archons are owned by tanks probably... but immortals....
Zealots are not a massive problem anymore, but if they warp in before your new hellions reach your tanks you're just going to outright die. Also zealots still beat hellbats as long as you don't EMP them. With EMP it's different, but once it again it moves back to mech requiring perfect EMPs to deal with archons and immortals. If you miss any EMPs with mech and one or two immortals get near your tanks you may as well just GG as 2 immortals can take outj like 6-7 tanks and they take ages to build.
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tanks should be rebuffed since their nerfes have been taken place in a time of steppes of war kind of maps and rediculous closespawns (...oh wait we still have rediculous close spawns)
Id like a 4-6 supply tank(massive) that is more like a bw tank in siege mode and a Thor(without antiair) in storm mode.
Goliath (call it "whatever you like"
buff to Viking harassment viability. they do their job but become too worthless in techswitching scenarios (the awkward moment when Colossi/broods are gone)
widow mines out 
EMP from ghosts to Raven (/remove autoturret)
seeker missiles without upgrade, 100 energy, long cooldown
Ghost get spider mines
nuke reworked (weaker but more utility (rocketlauncher idea...)
snipe buffed, cost increased
_____________
but hey I already bought it...so I am fine with hellbat and broken mines (which is more then a patchnote then a expansion tbh^^
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So is anyone having any success with mech in TvP after the latest patch? Merging air and mech upgrades was great and removing Tempest bonus damage vs ground was necessary but I still find mech very weak in TvP.
Collossus is still superior to all Terran ground since it is just as strong as siege tanks but have much better immobility. Immortals still hardcounter mech. Widow mines do close to nothing vs Protoss.
Is it better to just go bio until Blizzard make Immortal more of a soft counter instead of a hard counter? Faster Medivacs seems really useful.
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I tried my WOL play in HOTS, it's stupidly strong with that patch..
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Oh Master Mech TvP has spoken  Lyyna have you played any mech against heavy Stargates style ?
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 10 2012 02:09 MockHamill wrote:
So is anyone having any success with mech in TvP after the latest patch? Merging air and mech upgrades was great and removing Tempest bonus damage vs ground was necessary but I still find mech very weak in TvP.
Collossus is still superior to all Terran ground since it is just as strong as siege tanks but have much better immobility. Immortals still hardcounter mech. Widow mines do close to nothing vs Protoss.
Is it better to just go bio until Blizzard make Immortal more of a soft counter instead of a hard counter? Faster Medivacs seems really useful.
I've been having success against tosss as long as I'm prepared for the lategame. I like adding a good amount (maybe 6 ravens) alongside the same amount of ghosts to really help with immortals/archons.
My composition is a good mix of more tanks than hellions, with thor, raven and ghost support. Later game if I need to I'll switch to getting vikings, but with a good number of PDDs, Thors are actually really good against Tempests. Infact, PDD nullifies a lot of the issues I was having before where tempests would just kill all my vikings forcing me into constant production.
I still find the BC quite useless unless it's late game and I have enough support for them (not helped by the Tempest being super strong against them) and Widow Mines are next to useless against toss still due to supply and also how quickly they just kill them.
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Having problems with my mech, my opening is really bad and i feel like i could die whenever i move out, mobility just kills terran, this is probably the best terran map in the beta right now (at least for me) cuz i can go up to 3 expansions rather easily and its not impossible to take a 4th expo and the mobility is not that much of a problem cuz he circumvent me with army movement as much as on other maps
dont know how to stop the bad macro, when i go mech i always start to stockpile so much minerals, when i watch the replay it feels like this is bronze league -_-
http://drop.sc/283058
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On December 10 2012 02:09 MockHamill wrote:
So is anyone having any success with mech in TvP after the latest patch? Merging air and mech upgrades was great and removing Tempest bonus damage vs ground was necessary but I still find mech very weak in TvP.
Collossus is still superior to all Terran ground since it is just as strong as siege tanks but have much better immobility. Immortals still hardcounter mech. Widow mines do close to nothing vs Protoss.
Is it better to just go bio until Blizzard make Immortal more of a soft counter instead of a hard counter? Faster Medivacs seems really useful.
Better than in WoL at least. Also beating protoss with hellion/banshee is really fun xD. Combining the upgrades allows you to transition into support BCs much much easier/earlier, so you don't have to wait for the endgame. Previously people would use banshees or vikings, but now you can just use BCs to punish his lack of air. Of course, if he techs to tempests then you'd have to adapt probably, by just adding vikings though.
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On December 10 2012 02:44 pOriishan wrote:Oh Master Mech TvP has spoken Lyyna have you played any mech against heavy Stargates style ?
Not mass stargates play, but well, the new thor + ravens can basically deal with every protoss air unit. In fact i think the battlecruiser transition isn't even necessary anymore ( the main goal of it was to fight carriers), because the new thor + hellbat are stupidly good lategame. But well, a mech style including banshees in midgame is really strong atm
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Lots of you guys are recommending getting Ravens. Is the new Seeker Missile really useful?
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On December 10 2012 03:08 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Lots of you guys are recommending getting Ravens. Is the new Seeker Missile really useful?
You can one hit Immortal with it ( and colossus stay alive with 50hp) so it's kinda cool.
Haven't played a whole lot with it yet tho.
Banshee and vikings scaling with your mech army is brutally good tho.
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On December 10 2012 03:08 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Lots of you guys are recommending getting Ravens. Is the new Seeker Missile really useful?
It definitely opens more more strategies and goes for the "more forgiving" direction (oops, i don't have anything to kill his colossi, oh yeah i built a raven earlier for detection)
It's still a lot of energy so it's not like a hard counter, but it's burst damage, which makes it really good. Obviously if you are able to keep the Ravens alive and slowly build them up, you could get really strong. I could see that being a pretty decent style. Despite using so much gas, you could eventually have more ravens than his colossi or tempests or whatever.
Also killing an immortal in an early push is reaaally helpful. Burst dmg ftw.
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So is anyone having any success with mech in TvP after the latest patch? Merging air and mech upgrades was great and removing Tempest bonus damage vs ground was necessary but I still find mech very weak in TvP.
Collossus is still superior to all Terran ground since it is just as strong as siege tanks but have much better immobility. Immortals still hardcounter mech. Widow mines do close to nothing vs Protoss.
Is it better to just go bio until Blizzard make Immortal more of a soft counter instead of a hard counter? Faster Medivacs seems really useful.
Judging from your post saying "Collossus is still superior to all Terran ground since it is just as strong as siege tanks but have much better immobility. Immortals still hardcounter mech. Widow mines do close to nothing vs Protoss" clearly shows you do not know how to use the new seeker missile and widow mine speed burrow.
All i can tell you is this, new ravens completely kills off immortals with minimal to no casualties. Oh, please tell me how much 1 colossus cost and supply vs 1 tank cost and supply? Whining about a T3 unit that double the supply of a T2 unit (still the T2 unit out ranged the T3 unit) is just silly. Tell me also how many decent toss will go colossus against a mech terran? Upgraded widow mines with OP medivac is a super potent harrassment option.
So making helbat hard counter zealot is good, marine hard counter ALL protoss air is good, but immortal hard counter tank and thor is bad, right? Well I should say this too, raven hard counter immortal and colossus is so good! In fact, raven hard counter everything from robo, because none of the 4 robo units able to kill raven but raven can easily score a kill.
Going bio is definitely better now, cause medivac is freaking OP from early game to late game, so why go mech when bio is so much 'fun', right?
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I love mech , so fun to play :D good patch
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Id be very happy about some good replays. I have big issues with the early game and lategame. Maybe I dont attack enough? Cause my opponents always build up a crazy zealot, archon, immortal "deathball" or just go for Air like Carriers
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On November 20 2012 15:45 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 15:21 Insoleet wrote:On November 20 2012 10:12 Qikz wrote:On November 20 2012 08:05 Psychobabas wrote:
All they need to do is remove the energy from Thor to allow a mech army to withstand some damage. I'm honestly not seeing how the thor will do anything. They still get owned by immortals and barely do anything to archons/zealots. Those three units are what make mech really hard, not stalkers (the only unit thors are good against). zealots are not really a problem with some hellbats... archons are owned by tanks probably... but immortals.... Archons wreck tanks. Their huge, so splash does not really affect them. They have alot of health. And they aren't armored, thus taking minimum damage against Tanks and Hellions. And Immortals -__-. Usually in Mech I personally die because I simply don't have enough core Tank + Hellion because I've spent all my supply on Vikings and Ghosts. The State of Mech : You can only pick 2, but you need all three. Tank+Hellion Viking Ghost
I think vikings can be phased out in exchange for turrets/ widow mines for drop defense and techlab starport tech for handling those larger units. Seeker + emp kills collosus, imortals, archons now but feedback is still the biggest problem.
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EPT
