EPTThat said, 2 supply is actually stupid
[D] The widow mine's quintuple nerf before beta - Page 2
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Alexj
Ukraine440 Posts
That said, 2 supply is actually stupid | ||
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M.R. McThundercrotch
United States265 Posts
Now, personally, I kind of like the hellion; so, I think they should add a caster to the factory at a Tier 2.5, similar to the relationship between the barracks and the ghost, maybe even still using the Ghost Academy. Make it a vulture bike with spider mines and some other spells to help mech play and balance the base stats around being a support unit. I figure it could even just be a ghost who has traded his cloaking field for the added mobility of a hover bike and traded his EMP round for spider mines. A vulture at tier 2.5 that costs similar to a ghost and comes with Snipe, Spider Mines, and Nuke. Probably no speed upgrade, though, hahaha - that might be overkill. Maybe give the Thor a researchable speed upgrade and decrease it's size a smidge. Boom, no need for that ridiculous warhound, either, haha. Anyway, those are just ideas. Mainly, I just don't think that widow mine will ever be made into a standalone unit that is both effective and balanced, but I also don't generally have any idea what I am talking about; so, we'll see. | ||
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InVerno
258 Posts
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
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DaveVAH
Canada162 Posts
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
On September 08 2012 13:28 xyres wrote: I actually disagree with this post for a few reasons that I think the op didn't take into consideration. 1) The damage nerf was because they got rid of the 10 second timer and made it an instant attack. However it still kills units in one shot except units that shouldn't die with one shot like Thor's and brood lords, its cost effective against most of those units as well like the roach, stoker, marauder, spell casters and flying units. 2) The splash damage was actually buffed if you think about it because on the custom hots map most people would pull the unit away before it detonated and any splash is better then none. Also 35 splash damage is close to as much as a baneling and two shots marines and lings but maby the radius could use a buff I don't know enough about that. 3) As Johnny123 said the armoury requirement is probably because of creep spread and queens early game, as well as the fact that zerg dose not really have any way of killing a borrowed mine before lair as it has more range then all hatchery tech units. So basically completely imba. 4) As far as killing clocked units goes, well why should it. Bunkers, spines and auto cast burrowed banlings don't just magically kill clocked/burrowed units, detectors spot invisible units and non-detectors don't that is the game mechanic and it adds skill to the game so if you don't like it don't play. 5) I also think you missed the main point of the widow mine because you keep mentioning how core army units would be better to build because their stronger in fights. warhounds and helions and stuff just add to the death ball and wants units that are more effective outside the death ball. The widow mine is supposed to be used as a defensive unit against drops or behind your tanks while you make a push with your slow immobile mech army, and considering it kills medivacs, overlords and warp prisms instantly I would say it pretty effective (75 min and 25 gas for a 700 min and 100 gas more if marauders were in their). Plus if the units did drop the splash would make it much easier for your only mobile unit the helion to clean it up and also for spawning units to clean it up. So ya you could make army units instead but at a high level I hope you like to lose everything to drops because no one will want to engage your mech army. 6) The two supply might be overkill but I don't think we have enough data to determine that and will have to wait till the beta styles and balance develop. Thanks for reading guys I know it was a long post but I had to get it out. Edit: Oops forgot to mention only reason I think two supply might work is because of the efficiency of the mech army. best post so far. just make it 1 supply (or 0.5 with a damage nerf). minefields would be really nice for spacecontrol so buff the supplycost and if they are too strong just nerf the damage. 2 supply is way too much since it cuts too hard in the army of T and lategame a PF is just better for space control right now since it is no supply and can even be repaired. as for the people who say it should detect cloaked/burrowed: that would just be retarded since it would shut down ALL harrass by air and ground without needing detection. and theres no big deal in building some turrets lategame with the mines. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
The widow mine can no longer detect/kill cloaked/burrowed units. It was not able to detect before, don't confuse people please | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On September 08 2012 14:17 avilo wrote: They need to re-buff it so it can kill units. I just played trump and saw him trying to use the mines (oh how naive trump :D lol) and i walked like 3 warhounds and some hellions onto the mines and my warhounds were still in the high green health @_@. Imo, why not give the mine to the warhound and make it not cost supply/stronger? That would add a bit more depth to the warhound and you'd see them going around the map laying mines. i actually really like this idea. Make widow mines warhound poop. obviously whilst simultaneously nerfing the warhound substantially to make up for it. I feel as said if widow mines cost supply, it's usually a better idea to build army, considering youll start to see players always sacrificing one ling or one zealot to take out a 75/25 unit just isnt cost efficient for terran. However you can't make the zero supply or upon maxing out the terran just makes hundreds of them. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
I feel as said if widow mines cost supply, it's usually a better idea to build army, considering youll start to see players always sacrificing one ling or one zealot to take out a 75/25 unit just isnt cost efficient for terran. However you can't make the zero supply or upon maxing out the terran just makes hundreds of them. Lol? You can cancel auto-casting mine and manually target it. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On September 08 2012 17:53 Existor wrote: Lol? You can cancel auto-casting mine and manually target it. Can you? I thought you can't control the mine when it's burrowed. It will hit the first unit passing it, no? | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
I like how terrans suddenly discover that they need to sacrifice supply for map control. That said, 2 supply is actually stupid The main issue is no other race has to sacrifice supply for map control as they do it with their units. If you have a smaller mech army, it will not win in it's current form against any ground/air army that comes at it, trust me. I play mech every matchup in WoL and unless you pretty much max out completely on mech it gets destroyed by everything. To have mines be effective you need atleast 10 per area and that's 20 supply per field which is dumb as hell. | ||
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
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Fluffboll
Sweden516 Posts
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NATO
United States459 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
On September 08 2012 18:36 Fluffboll wrote: Give the mines to the Reaper, make it zero supply but limit it to 2 with an upgrade to make the Reapers carry 4 mines. Why the reaper? It needs to badly be on a factory unit as having to make extra barracks as mech would be really annoying. If anything make it a warhound ability allowing them to keep their speed and be basically mine layers. | ||
Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On September 08 2012 18:42 NATO wrote: Widow mines had the potential to add interesting gameplay to the game, but they are more worthless than a Raven in current form. Ravens kick ass. Increased movement speed + 100energy hunter seeker is soooo good. Regarding the widow mine: design wise they are fine, unlike the warhound. So as long as blizzard gets the numbers right, we will see them as a part of every mech army. This is not the case right now but it will be eventually, i am sure. | ||
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Ohjay
Germany83 Posts
I think the actual design of the widow mine is a perfect example to show how great the unit design was in broodwar. The new units for hots must have been designed without any in depth thoughts at all. very sad to see this development  | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
Also, Avilo please don't take this the wrong way but this has been bothering me with your posts for a while + Show Spoiler + It's It's is a contraction of "it is" or "it has." It's time to go. Do you think it's ready? I read your article - it's very good. Do you know where my purse is? It's on the table. It's been a long time. Its Its is the possessive form of "it." That's an interesting device - what is its purpose? I saw Les Misérables during its initial run. This stove has its own timer. The bird lost some of its feathers. Where is its head office? On September 08 2012 16:23 Alexj wrote: I like how terrans suddenly discover that they need to sacrifice supply for map control. That said, 2 supply is actually stupid there's nothing "sudden" about it. Terrans have been building bunkers with marines at distant expansion to control areas of the map since forever. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On September 08 2012 19:24 Quotidian wrote: OP's point is spot on.. it's so weird that they changed the mine so much before beta, because it's not like they had a good grasp on how thing would actually function when the beta went live anyway. Their surprise at the overall strength of the Warhound is an example of that. They should've been more willing to experiment with it along the way, instead of launching with a unit there's no good reason to make Also, Avilo please don't take this the wrong way but this has been bothering me with your posts for a while + Show Spoiler + It's It's is a contraction of "it is" or "it has." It's time to go. Do you think it's ready? I read your article - it's very good. Do you know where my purse is? It's on the table. It's been a long time. Its Its is the possessive form of "it." That's an interesting device - what is its purpose? I saw Les Misérables during its initial run. This stove has its own timer. The bird lost some of its feathers. Where is its head office? there's nothing "sudden" about it. Terrans have been building bunkers with marines at distant expansion to control areas of the map since forever. Ah, those are typos/grammar errors yep. Anyways, for people arguing the "Terran will just make infinite of these when maxed" that would be impossible if it's tied to a unit like the warhound like it is with the vulture. You make the unit, it gets the 3 mines, then you have the unit itself leftover. You would have to purposely kill your own units just for the sake of making more mines in that case which with a unit that costs gas such as the warhound would be bad. I honestly can't see 1-2 supply mines making it into the final version of this game. I'm just callling it now. Either way they need to be looked at. | ||
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iknowFiRE
Slovenia37 Posts
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