a three tech routes ultra-gimmicky endlessly gas-heavy drop play that noone will ever be able to use in pro games gives you hope? then what doesn't?
Haha... let me clarify, since you took this out of context from the rest of my (long) post.
Upon first seeing how quickly early oracle harass can get shut down, I was unsure if the oracle would ever be useful as an offensive unit past, say, the ten minute mark or so. After all, they're relatively brittle units, and their ability to freeze minerals would become less and less useful as time goes by (because of the threat of defensive AA, the opponent taking more bases, etc.).
I figured that maybe the oracle would centrally become a defensive unit after the early game has ended (unless a Protoss player can pull of an incredibly lucky scouting path and not get shot down).
But then I see this gif, and realize that the oracle may actually have some potential in the late game on the offense in the mineral fields... not by itself, but when warp prisms and high templar are already on the field. (There's no reason to *rush* to do this kind of harassment, but think about Hero doing this with his already-great warp prism harassment.) It's a way to cause your opponent's workers to clump. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Go ask a hellion.
I just think that the new units with multiple abilities have much greater potential when complementing other units... and that we can't only think of them in a vacuum (without other units in a composition). And these types of strategies will emerge over time, and won't only be found in the early game, or in the first month of HotS.
a three tech routes ultra-gimmicky endlessly gas-heavy drop play that noone will ever be able to use in pro games gives you hope? then what doesn't?
Haha... let me clarify, since you took this out of context from the rest of my (long) post.
Upon first seeing how quickly early oracle harass can get shut down, I was unsure if the oracle would ever be useful as an offensive unit past, say, the ten minute mark or so. After all, they're relatively brittle units, and their ability to freeze minerals would become less and less useful as time goes by (because of the threat of defensive AA, the opponent taking more bases, etc.).
I figured that maybe the oracle would centrally become a defensive unit after the early game has ended (unless a Protoss player can pull of an incredibly luck scouting path and not get shot down).
But then I see this gif, and realize that the oracle may actually have some potential in the late game on the offense in the mineral fields... not by itself, but when warp prisms and high templar are already on the field. (There's no reason to *rush* to do this kind of harassment, but think about Hero doing this with his already-great warp prism harassment.) It's a way to cause your opponent's workers to clump. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
I just think that the new units with multiple abilities have much greater potential when complementing other units... and that we can't only think of them in a vacuum (without other units in a composition). And these types of strategies will emerge over time, and won't only be found in the early game, or in the first month of HotS.
I agree with DarkPlasmaBall. All of the new Protoss units look like they need a buff. Giving the MSC a wider purify range would be a good start.
It's odd seeing the projectile of a tempest hit one marine in a bio ball and not damage the ones next to it, given the size of the projectile and the way it looks like when it explodes. That's just cosmetic, but right now the unit is also not balanced to be worth the cost. I say give it splash.
I don't know what to think about the oracle. Maybe replace entomb with an ability that spawns microable, psionic attack units. Anything is preferable to entomb.
As for the warhound, once it is balanced, I think it will be fine. I understand that Protoss loves stalkers and immortals, but these units are too strong against mech for it to be viable. The warhound's trading well with them is what makes mech viable in the matchup. What no one wants to see, however, is mass warhound every game. Sadly, I think that is what blizzard wants; afterall, they stated they wanted it to be a core unit. If Protoss players start opening stargate, then in the meta we will see fewer warhounds, though. Right now they are still fixated on mass stalkers.
So while I think that- at the moment- all of our units were designed with less useful intentions than the Terran and Zerg ones, I'm hoping that we Protoss players can find a way to come up with some ways to make some of our new units useful. (Basically, we need Kiwikaki.) I just think we're really screwed with the current tempest model though.
Or better yet, don't buy the game unless they fix Toss.
The fact that they're not giving us anything other than possibly slightly handy support units should be enough to provoke the outrage of Toss players.
Zerg players and Terran players wouldn't stand for it. Not for a moment. I think it's time for the Ents to rise up and start ruining some shit.
Glad to see the warhound getting nerfed. It seemed like for days that's all anyone was talking about. It's been fun watching the streams and see how the players are experimenting.
The oracle + templar drop sure was cool. But I can't see it working versus a high level player who has decent overlord spread. Unless somehow protoss will revolve more about air control late game?
In bw protoss had corsairs to kill overlords and drops could go unnoticed easier + storm killed almost everything in one hit.
On September 10 2012 01:34 wcr.4fun wrote: The oracle + templar drop sure was cool. But I can't see it working versus a high level player who has decent overlord spread. Unless somehow protoss will revolve more about air control late game?
In bw protoss had corsairs to kill overlords and drops could go unnoticed easier + storm killed almost everything in one hit.
how can protoss achieve air control? in WoL, protoss only gets air control when terran or zerg allows/don't care about it....
Warhounds and mines are godfuckingawful. Mines deal no damage, but still consume supply and resources and Warhounds are mobile siege mode tanks. Blizzard is still missing the point of mech, even after all of the near articles posted about it. Good to feel like the community input matters, right?
On September 10 2012 01:59 AKomrade wrote: Warhounds and mines are godfuckingawful. Mines deal no damage, but still consume supply and resources and Warhounds are mobile siege mode tanks. Blizzard is still missing the point of mech, even after all of the near articles posted about it. Good to feel like the community input matters, right?
that would be colossus. Warhounds are like something between a stalker and an immortal but cheaper.
On September 09 2012 22:57 GregMandel wrote: 1.5 radius ? Holy crap that's small
I don't think you would want to use Dark swar... Uh Blinding cloud over abduct because let's say you want to engage vs marine tank with Muta/Ling/Viper, I'd rather abduct the tanks than use the blinding clouds on the tanks.
Effectively, the cloud will only blind one tank, and so will the abduct, but abduct costs less energy and means a free tank for you.
Trust me, if you don't have Ghosts/High Templars, Vipers are gamebreaking units, both abilities are super strong, and with them, you can crush a lot stronger army. You can pull few units with Abduct, while using Blinding Cloud on everything else, so they can attack.
On September 09 2012 22:57 GregMandel wrote: 1.5 radius ? Holy crap that's small
I don't think you would want to use Dark swar... Uh Blinding cloud over abduct because let's say you want to engage vs marine tank with Muta/Ling/Viper, I'd rather abduct the tanks than use the blinding clouds on the tanks.
Effectively, the cloud will only blind one tank, and so will the abduct, but abduct costs less energy and means a free tank for you.
Trust me, if you don't have Ghosts/High Templars, Vipers are gamebreaking units, both abilities are super strong, and with them, you can crush a lot stronger army. You can pull few units with Abduct, while using Blinding Cloud on everything else, so they can attack.
On September 09 2012 22:57 GregMandel wrote: 1.5 radius ? Holy crap that's small
I don't think you would want to use Dark swar... Uh Blinding cloud over abduct because let's say you want to engage vs marine tank with Muta/Ling/Viper, I'd rather abduct the tanks than use the blinding clouds on the tanks.
Effectively, the cloud will only blind one tank, and so will the abduct, but abduct costs less energy and means a free tank for you.
Trust me, if you don't have Ghosts/High Templars, Vipers are gamebreaking units, both abilities are super strong, and with them, you can crush a lot stronger army. You can pull few units with Abduct, while using Blinding Cloud on everything else, so they can attack.
i'd rather get vikings vs vypers than ghosts
Snipe is better and faster at taking them down. Also. EMP.
Ya know since there was 0 Drone micro, he could've just stormed twice for the same effect. We already know HTs kill things.
I'm okay with non-deathball units, but not when Terran and Zerg get uber deathball units and a billion more midgame options, while Aiur gets a giant shit taken on it.
On September 09 2012 22:57 GregMandel wrote: 1.5 radius ? Holy crap that's small
I don't think you would want to use Dark swar... Uh Blinding cloud over abduct because let's say you want to engage vs marine tank with Muta/Ling/Viper, I'd rather abduct the tanks than use the blinding clouds on the tanks.
Effectively, the cloud will only blind one tank, and so will the abduct, but abduct costs less energy and means a free tank for you.
Trust me, if you don't have Ghosts/High Templars, Vipers are gamebreaking units, both abilities are super strong, and with them, you can crush a lot stronger army. You can pull few units with Abduct, while using Blinding Cloud on everything else, so they can attack.
i'd rather get vikings vs vypers than ghosts
And what will you do when the Zerg get the Corruptors? As other guy said, both Snipe and EMP counter Vipers a lot better and faster than Vikings.
On September 10 2012 04:23 Zion9 wrote: And already begins the TERRAN nerf :D I understand Warhound is OP so no bashing please it's just a fun fact
swarmhost nerf. bc + raven superduperbuffs. but yeah its beta and awesome blizzard tries so many things.
hope they make units like hydras, mutas (in zvt) and toss air also more viable. every T unit is really nice if raven and bc buffs stay in the game. if they take out warhound they could buff tank and widow mine also. but hey, they do a nice job and i hope they continue trying buffing old units and checking them out in the beta.
On September 08 2012 06:40 Aenur wrote: I don't think that the warhounds are nerfed enough. The main problems are their ridiculous fast moving speed, the cost of 2 supply and the abit to high hitpoints. At least two of these points must be changed.
They need to greatly nerf the movespeed. Mech isn't supposed to be fast running around like that. It is supposed to be slow, but can defeat any ground army with the power of siege tanks. You outmaneuver it to win, while Terran positions well to win. Warhounds just roll around and stomp everything now...
On September 08 2012 06:40 Aenur wrote: I don't think that the warhounds are nerfed enough. The main problems are their ridiculous fast moving speed, the cost of 2 supply and the abit to high hitpoints. At least two of these points must be changed.
They need to greatly nerf the movespeed. Mech isn't supposed to be fast running around like that. It is supposed to be slow, but can defeat any ground army with the power of siege tanks. You outmaneuver it to win, while Terran positions well to win. Warhounds just roll around and stomp everything now...
But Blizzard is clearly not aiming to make HOTS like BW mech. I actually kinda like having a fast mech unit that has synergy with the hellions. The warhound might be a uninspired unit but lets face it, there are worse units already in the game. Atleast with the speed it makes it a little more unique, it did seem a little strong though, wonder how it looks after the nerf.
EPT
