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Active: 1679 users

Oracle: vision spells - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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MoonCricket
Profile Joined September 2011
222 Posts
September 07 2012 09:25 GMT
#41
On September 07 2012 17:46 Alexj wrote:
David Kim's comments on Oracle:

Show nested quote +
Revelation is mostly there so that players don't have to tech Robotics Facility every game. And the difference between the soft detection that's based off of energy vs. perma detection of the Observer seems different enough?

But for Preordain scouting an enemy base vs. an observer doing it vs. tagging some units with Revelation that does it etc. does seem to overlap quite a bit. We will definitely discuss internally to see if there is a better solution.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6489980368?page=2#31

So
- Even if you think Protoss doesn't need stargate detection, Blizzard are determined to keep it. Deal with it.
- Assumption of Preordain/Revelation being merged in the future seems correct.
- Still no word on Entomb effectiveness.


Yeah, from a game design perspective, it's imperative that the Stargate have detection and economical that the two abilities converge into one. I think the Oracle will have 3 abilities, 1) Harassment 2) Detection 3) Army Support so you can summise 1) Entomb 2) Revelation and 3) Cloaking Field (researched from Fleet Beacon). Judging from precedents, the Observer is a flying cloaked unit that detects other cloaked units without energy, where the Oracle could be a flying unit that cloaks other units and detects cloaked units with energy and has Entomb to fill an additional harassment roll. Essentially, the perogatives are to permit Protoss to directly tech to Stargate vs. PvP and PvT, detection, and provide another economic harassment option, Entomb, while replacing some of the functionality from the lost WoL units, Cloaking Field.

I honestly think the Oracle is the only HOTS unit that actually addresses game balance/design issues at this point, because making Starport openings viable vs Terran is pivotal in differentiating the matchup. Likewise Warhound, Battle Hellion and Widow Mine are trying to do the same for Terrans by making Factory openings viable vs Protoss, but currently the Warhound is completely OP, the Battle Hellion isn't good enough vs Zealots and too good vs. Zerglings and the Widow Mine conficts with the design elements of the Burrowed Baneling. The new Zerg units are in a pretty good place, altho' they sorely need to move the Hydralisk speed upgrade to Lair.
800800
Profile Joined October 2011
Afghanistan64 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 10:38:13
September 07 2012 10:28 GMT
#42
Revelation is a nice spell and I do think Protoss need this. It will give Protoss a flexible way to get detection even when choose to go Stargate tech. However the preordain spell is not needed. If this spell is cast it is potentially the same as having legit map hack. Once it is cast the player on receiving end can do one of the two thing:

1) ignore it
2) kill his own building to stop granting vision to Protoss

Basically there is not much the receiving player can do. You can do this with a obs, but you always can kill the obs, you can't stop a spell. I do not like Preordain.

-edit-

I agree with what MoonCriket said
The oracle need

1) Harassment 2) Detection 3) Army Support


remove Preordain and give it some sort of army support.
Maybe Stasis Field? Or a weaker version like cyclone from War3. Remove one ground unit from play for a temporarily time. Somewhere between the two spell.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 07 2012 14:51 GMT
#43
On September 07 2012 17:46 Alexj wrote:
David Kim's comments on Oracle:

Show nested quote +
Revelation is mostly there so that players don't have to tech Robotics Facility every game. And the difference between the soft detection that's based off of energy vs. perma detection of the Observer seems different enough?

But for Preordain scouting an enemy base vs. an observer doing it vs. tagging some units with Revelation that does it etc. does seem to overlap quite a bit. We will definitely discuss internally to see if there is a better solution.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6489980368?page=2#31

So
- Even if you think Protoss doesn't need stargate detection, Blizzard are determined to keep it. Deal with it.
- Assumption of Preordain/Revelation being merged in the future seems correct.
- Still no word on Entomb effectiveness.


What if the Mothership Core purifier gives it detection?

That way the Oracle doesn't need to have spells that deal with detection at all.
MMA: The true King of Wings
YoungNV
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada18 Posts
September 11 2012 03:16 GMT
#44
I saw White-Ra use Preordain on an enemy Hatchery then snipe it with Tempests at 22 range. It took a long time because the player was Transfusing with Queens but it worked.

On another note, I could imagine Revelation coming in handy dealing with Swarm Hosts. Instead of attacking the Locusts, use Revelation on the Swarm Hosts then use your Tempests to snipe them at 22 range. Even if you don't completely kill the Swarm Hosts, you might be able to force the Zerg to unburrow them and retreat. If the Zerg decides to move in to kill your Tempests, just use Mothership Core Recall and get them out of harm's way.

Theory-crafting is fun.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes.
bananafone
Profile Joined October 2011
68 Posts
September 11 2012 07:40 GMT
#45
Revelation is actually really good. The ability to see enemy deathball movement for 30 seconds is absolutely essential in some scenarios and sometimes observers just aren't an option (hydra+overseer, terran+scan or robo used for colossus/immortal). 50 energy is completely reasonable (unlike entombs cost). The only thing needed is a bit more shield (think warp prism) on the oracle and we're good to go.

Unconvinced players should go watch Real's stream.
Xerxes Wrath
Profile Joined September 2012
48 Posts
September 11 2012 07:56 GMT
#46
On September 11 2012 12:16 YoungNV wrote:
I saw White-Ra use Preordain on an enemy Hatchery then snipe it with Tempests at 22 range. It took a long time because the player was Transfusing with Queens but it worked.

On another note, I could imagine Revelation coming in handy dealing with Swarm Hosts. Instead of attacking the Locusts, use Revelation on the Swarm Hosts then use your Tempests to snipe them at 22 range. Even if you don't completely kill the Swarm Hosts, you might be able to force the Zerg to unburrow them and retreat. If the Zerg decides to move in to kill your Tempests, just use Mothership Core Recall and get them out of harm's way.

Theory-crafting is fun.


I don't know. The only thing I see is that WhiteRa and other pros have stopped using new protoss units completely
Throw away those useless emotions of yours, I'll teach you how to use everything, everyone
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
September 11 2012 08:47 GMT
#47
On September 07 2012 02:09 wcr.4fun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 01:26 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Nice write-up. Some of these new abilities are wonky but I think they will be a lot of fun!!!

if you're mentally disabled i guess they can be fun? Or could you explain me what's fun about using entom, pre-ordain or a scan?

User was warned for this post


Do you think its possible to measure person's IQ by how much of a good spell they think Entomb is?
sorry for dem one liners
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
September 11 2012 09:36 GMT
#48
they should merge the two vision spell, and replace predorian with a new spell that support your army
Seigifried
Profile Joined January 2012
United States60 Posts
September 23 2012 00:00 GMT
#49
I love oracles they look so cool and i think they might be able to help alot in the mid/late game stages of pvt and maybe pvz!!!!!!
Runen
Profile Joined September 2012
Denmark2 Posts
September 26 2012 17:03 GMT
#50
What would happen if the Oracle´s Entomb ability did not encases minerals but Entomb workers NOT mining and NOT carrying minerals or gas...?
yes boss
Runen
Profile Joined September 2012
Denmark2 Posts
September 26 2012 17:16 GMT
#51
What would happen if the Oracle´s Entomb ability did not encases minerals but Entomb workers NOT mining and NOT carrying minerals or gas...?
yes boss
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