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Oracle: vision spells - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
September 06 2012 21:36 GMT
#21
Can you target your own buildlings with preordain?
Sup
Clogon
Profile Joined August 2010
45 Posts
September 06 2012 21:41 GMT
#22
You can only target enemi buildings.
"If Dota teaches you anything it’s that Disney isn’t real. You’ll work really hard, you’ll let your carry farm, and then he’ll throw for no reason at 60 minutes and I’m ready for that throw." -SirActionSlacks
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 06 2012 21:41 GMT
#23
On September 07 2012 06:36 avilo wrote:
Can you target your own buildlings with preordain?

That appears to be the case. Though people have not been using a lot of cloaked banshee openers on stream, so it is hard to tell.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
testthewest
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany274 Posts
September 06 2012 21:47 GMT
#24
On September 07 2012 06:36 avilo wrote:
Can you target your own buildlings with preordain?



How should this action benefit you?
War is not about who is right, but who is left.
Alexj
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Ukraine440 Posts
September 06 2012 21:50 GMT
#25
On September 07 2012 06:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 06:36 avilo wrote:
Can you target your own buildlings with preordain?

That appears to be the case. Though people have not been using a lot of cloaked banshee openers on stream, so it is hard to tell.

Again: Preordain does NOT have detection

On September 07 2012 06:47 testthewest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 06:36 avilo wrote:
Can you target your own buildlings with preordain?



How should this action benefit you?

Theoretically you can preordain buildings on the edge of your base to spot incoming drops, mutas, etc
More GGs, more skill
Herect
Profile Joined January 2012
Brazil216 Posts
September 06 2012 21:51 GMT
#26
Protoss gained 2 units that makes smart energy management so much important. An idle Oracle/Mothership core is ra waste of money. But your objective isn't making it low. You still need to use energy smatly

Something like: if you are always using entomb, you wont have energy to use revelation/preordain when these spell are needed.

The same with Mommacore. you can use energize to power-up your macro, but you won't have energy to recall/energize spellcasters then.

It's like a normal Macro mechanic, but you have to use in the correct/smart way instead of just mechanically use it like Injects/Mule/Chronno Boosts.
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 21:58:01
September 06 2012 21:57 GMT
#27
.... toss already has an observer. That coupled with canons is really all they need. This is including the fact that theres no observatory like there was in bw so its a shorter tech tree. Don't really see a need to double dip so hard.

Tangent question: is the overseer still out? And does the viper have that detection thing he can give units?
Jaedong.
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8305 Posts
September 06 2012 23:06 GMT
#28
TBH revelation is what I'm most excited about with oracle. I LOVE my stargate opens in PvP but I generally need to grab a robo pretty fast incase of DTs. being able to go pure stargate in PvP should be a ton of fun. Though the archon bust may still be tough to deal with... on the other hand, I'll have more stalkers due to not needing to invest in robo tech against the DTs so maybe that will help.

Hell, how are VRs against archons? Seems like they should be decent as archons are massive...
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
ObliviousNA
Profile Joined March 2011
United States535 Posts
September 06 2012 23:13 GMT
#29
Thanks for the clarification. Before I was thinking revelation was just a scan, but this has much cooler implications. You can use revelation on a pack of mutas to ensure your blink stalkers are always in position - effectively denying harass for an entire minute.

Or, if you only catch a few mutas, the zerg can swing these around from a different direction to falsely lead your defensive stalkers to the wrong area...

All kinds of awesomeness. I hope they do it right.
Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why.
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
September 06 2012 23:19 GMT
#30
On September 07 2012 02:36 normalman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 02:09 wcr.4fun wrote:
On September 07 2012 01:26 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Nice write-up. Some of these new abilities are wonky but I think they will be a lot of fun!!!

if you're mentally disabled i guess they can be fun? Or could you explain me what's fun about using entom, pre-ordain or a scan?


Wow pretty vicious calling someone mentally disabled because they said that part of a computer game looks fun... I guess you just call anyone and everyone mentally disabled for pretty much no reason? Of course in itself, these kinds of abilities won't be fun but it gives detection via stargate, so another counter to DT opening stargate without robo as viable in PvP perhaps? This is one in maybe 100 different effects which they will have which could improve the fun of the game... I don't think you have to be mentally disabled to see that.


It was a figure of speech. I didn't call him mentally disabled, it was said in a jokingly manner.

I forgot for a moment that this is teamliquid, my apologies. I'm an avid poster on another forum where a lot more is allowed in terms of 'negative' language.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
September 07 2012 00:19 GMT
#31
On September 07 2012 06:57 Kal_rA wrote:
.... toss already has an observer. That coupled with canons is really all they need. This is including the fact that theres no observatory like there was in bw so its a shorter tech tree. Don't really see a need to double dip so hard.


Absolutely agree with this.
obsid
Profile Joined November 2008
United States389 Posts
September 07 2012 00:31 GMT
#32
I think Reveal on enemy works just so you can target them easier with tempest is going to be a waste. Just right click spam them after using Preordain on the "town hall" building and you can shoot them for 3 times as long and both cost only 50 energy.
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 00:51:18
September 07 2012 00:50 GMT
#33
On September 07 2012 06:57 Kal_rA wrote:
.... toss already has an observer. That coupled with canons is really all they need. This is including the fact that theres no observatory like there was in bw so its a shorter tech tree. Don't really see a need to double dip so hard.


In wol Terrans have 4 ways to detect : scans, turrets, ravens, and emp. Zergs have 3 ways to detect : spores, overseer and fungal growth. Protoss only have 2 : canons and observers. You can cancel a nuke by placing a forcefield on a cloaked ghost but it doesn't reveal it and nobody knows that trick anyways. The oracle detection is just there to put Protoss on par and give them an emergency reveal like emp and fungal.
Ryder.
Profile Joined January 2011
1117 Posts
September 07 2012 01:04 GMT
#34
I get that the 2 vision spells are different but they are still similar enough that I hope blizzard just combines the two into one spell and gives the oracle a new spell, preferably something that doesn't make it a useless 200 gas paperweight when it comes to combat.
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 01:12:57
September 07 2012 01:11 GMT
#35
Protoss go Robo for the Observer sure, but also because of the Immortal and Colossi.

Phoenix use is more situational and, these days, is more used in PvP than in the other P matchups. The VR has been nerfed to near uselessness, and the Tempest (to be fair and despite my personal feelings on the unit) remains a work in progress.

In other words, if Blizzard wants to encourage more SG play from Protoss, they'll need more than the Oracle.

KT best KT ~ 2014
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 01:46:25
September 07 2012 01:46 GMT
#36
On September 07 2012 09:50 chuky500 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 06:57 Kal_rA wrote:
.... toss already has an observer. That coupled with canons is really all they need. This is including the fact that theres no observatory like there was in bw so its a shorter tech tree. Don't really see a need to double dip so hard.


In wol Terrans have 4 ways to detect : scans, turrets, ravens, and emp. Zergs have 3 ways to detect : spores, overseer and fungal growth. Protoss only have 2 : canons and observers. You can cancel a nuke by placing a forcefield on a cloaked ghost but it doesn't reveal it and nobody knows that trick anyways. The oracle detection is just there to put Protoss on par and give them an emergency reveal like emp and fungal.


Observers, in regards to detection, are superior to Ravens and Overseers. This is because they detect and they cloaked. It's already on par.

Your post reeks of bias.
Alexj
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Ukraine440 Posts
September 07 2012 08:26 GMT
#37
Do you people understand the point of expansions? Yes, strictly speaking Protoss doesn't need another detection, and Terran doesn't need a mech marauder or more options for territory control, and Zerg doesn't need more units spawning units. Hell, the only thing Protoss currently need is some luck with good archon toilets in late game PvZ.

Really, there are 20 other threads with all that negativity towards new HotS units. I was hoping we could discuss the practical use here, but you had to drown this thread in whine as well.

All right, let's do it your way

Observers, in regards to detection, are superior to Ravens and Overseers. This is because they detect and they cloaked. It's already on par.

Your post reeks of bias.


Terran:
- static detection costs 75 minerals, it's easy to spam turrets in base or while moving across the map
- 3 options of mobile detection
- having mobile detection options at Barracks, Starport and your first frakin' building means you are not forced into any tech path

Protoss:
- static detection costs 150 minerals
- 1 option of mobile detection
- there is not a single one safe PvT or PvP opening that doesn't involve getting a robo

Now let's talk about bias, eh? Yes, observer is superior to raven and overseer, but don't tell me that observer is superior to scan.

Again, protoss doesn't need a detection option in stargate, just like terran doesn't need a viable mech option. God forbid Blizzard tries to add a little bit of build divercity into this game
More GGs, more skill
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3811 Posts
September 07 2012 08:42 GMT
#38
On September 07 2012 02:09 wcr.4fun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 01:26 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Nice write-up. Some of these new abilities are wonky but I think they will be a lot of fun!!!

if you're mentally disabled i guess they can be fun? Or could you explain me what's fun about using entom, pre-ordain or a scan?

User was warned for this post


That escalated quickly
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
Alexj
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Ukraine440 Posts
September 07 2012 08:46 GMT
#39
David Kim's comments on Oracle:

Revelation is mostly there so that players don't have to tech Robotics Facility every game. And the difference between the soft detection that's based off of energy vs. perma detection of the Observer seems different enough?

But for Preordain scouting an enemy base vs. an observer doing it vs. tagging some units with Revelation that does it etc. does seem to overlap quite a bit. We will definitely discuss internally to see if there is a better solution.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6489980368?page=2#31

So
- Even if you think Protoss doesn't need stargate detection, Blizzard are determined to keep it. Deal with it.
- Assumption of Preordain/Revelation being merged in the future seems correct.
- Still no word on Entomb effectiveness.
More GGs, more skill
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
September 07 2012 09:08 GMT
#40
Can Preordain be casted on floating buildings?
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
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