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The warhound - a deathball unit, not a "mech" unit - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
September 06 2012 01:02 GMT
#61
wow avilo
I commend you for taking a stance against imbalance/stupid designs instead of just always defending Terran.
I'll consider your words with more weight from now on.
moo...for DRG
Chronos.
Profile Joined February 2012
United States805 Posts
September 06 2012 01:02 GMT
#62
Support this completely, the warhound should be changed to and mech should stay mech.
SilSol
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden2744 Posts
September 06 2012 01:06 GMT
#63
Yeah i think that warhound should be a mech unit for sure.
http://fragbite.se/user/117868/silsol since 2006 http://www.reddit.com/u/silsol77
Cedstick
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada3336 Posts
September 06 2012 01:06 GMT
#64
On September 06 2012 09:59 QuanticTheognis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 09:24 aznball123 wrote:
Who gives a shit, we finally get a good 1A unit.


I concur with this statement. Two years of dying to colossus... let's do it! :D

People with any sort of impact shouldn't be too careless with their jokes. Blizzard will see this and immediately seal the deal on the warhound D: Stop hurting ESPORTS!

As to Avilo, I like how much you've thought it through. I've got my own, simpler change proposition, though. First-off, I like the idea of building turrets in the field, so let's not get rid of the potential for such a cool tactic with your warhound change. Instead, let's remove the warhound and thor, then bring-in the goliath. Sounds good, huh? Your widow-mine change will work well with this, too. Pretty close to Brood War, but still an interesting, fun style of play -- mech!
"What does Rivington do when he's not commentating?" "Drool." ~ Categorist
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
September 06 2012 01:08 GMT
#65
There is no question, it is the "colossus" for Terran. No it doesn't have the range, nor does it have the same overall goal but basically it is "I attack, I move it back, I attack again" T.T mech is about siege lines and positioning, you win by dominating them like chess, not massing this ball together and pushing through. Mech wins becuase it is stronger stationary, not because it is stronger mobile T.T
FoTG fighting!
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
September 06 2012 01:09 GMT
#66
On September 06 2012 10:02 neoghaleon55 wrote:
wow avilo
I commend you for taking a stance against imbalance/stupid designs instead of just always defending Terran.
I'll consider your words with more weight from now on.


Considering he has to play TvT vs the fucking things don't think this is purely selfless.

Not that I'd blame him though, warhounds are fucking absurd.
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
Empirimancer
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada1024 Posts
September 06 2012 01:10 GMT
#67
Look, this is pointless. Dustin Browder has said he doesn't like positional play, he doesn't like the tank, he's doing everything he can to nerf tanks which are the epitome of positional play and mech-style play, Every race will be a-move so there are no boring stand-offs and more pew-pew action. That's what HotS will bring, like it or not.


CikaZombi
Profile Joined August 2011
Serbia630 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 01:14:25
September 06 2012 01:10 GMT
#68
What if Hayware missiles (or whatsitcalled) were the actual transformation of the warhound? Like some sort of deploy (similar to the Thor's CC cannon and not this autocast madness that it is now? That would make it less op without nerfing or removing that ability completely like they probably will. Don't get me wrong that won't change the design and it's core problems nor other statistical OPness of the unit, but it's a step in the right direction.

EDIT: Mr. Browder never said such a thing.
You can no more evade my wrath, than you could your own shadow.
hpTheGreat
Profile Joined August 2010
United States173 Posts
September 06 2012 01:13 GMT
#69
I hear you man but this isn't happening.
For whatever reason, they refuse to give us the units that worked perfectly in brood war. Instead they give us almost the same thing but slightly different. Just enough to say that this is an original, fresh idea. (examples: swarm host/lurker, warhound/goliath, viper/defiler, mothership/arbiter, battle hellion/firebat, new mine/vulture).
I dont know... pretty disappointed from what I've seen so far... I hope they do a good job and turn this around. Not impressed.
Luepert
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1933 Posts
September 06 2012 01:13 GMT
#70
On September 06 2012 09:20 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 09:19 vOdToasT wrote:
On September 06 2012 09:18 Godwrath wrote:
On September 06 2012 09:17 vOdToasT wrote:
On September 06 2012 09:05 -Duderino- wrote:
I agree with avilo, but I do think terran deserve some ez mode 1a unit seeing as that is the catagory most toss and zerg units fall under.


No race should have easy mode 1a units. In Brood War, not even Protoss is an easy mode 1a2a3a race. Even Protoss is hard and interesting and fun to play as and against.

Even if P and Z end up being 1a2a3a ezmode with no micro, that doesn't mean Terran should be dragged down as well. Let us have at least one interesting race, instead of none.


What race do you play btw ?


In SC1, I play Zerg (but Protoss vs Z, so ZvT, ZvP, PvZ).
In SC2, I played Zerg, but if I ever go back to SC2 again I'll switch to Terran, because I am sick of ZvZ.


So you play zerg. Okey that's interesting. Why aren't you proposing changes for zergs ?


Because he doesn't plan on playing zerg again?
esports
Disengaged
Profile Joined July 2010
United States6994 Posts
September 06 2012 01:18 GMT
#71
On September 06 2012 10:09 iaguz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 10:02 neoghaleon55 wrote:
wow avilo
I commend you for taking a stance against imbalance/stupid designs instead of just always defending Terran.
I'll consider your words with more weight from now on.


Considering he has to play TvT vs the fucking things don't think this is purely selfless.

Not that I'd blame him though, warhounds are fucking absurd.


They don't do so well against mass siege tanks.
Shebuha
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1335 Posts
September 06 2012 01:19 GMT
#72
I suggest they either remove the marauder and reduce the size/cost/damage of the Warhound OR... are you ready for this?
Remove the Thor and increase the size/cost/damage of the Warhound and give it a bad anti air attack.
Steelo_Rivers
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1968 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 01:26:46
September 06 2012 01:24 GMT
#73
Dont mean to start an argument but...

Isn't mech a deathball in general? You sit behind tanks, turrets, PF's, and sensor towers until you have a maxed out deathball and then you move out.

sure you siege and unsiege every now and then but in general its just attack move. There are no spells to cast, no real micro besides siege and unsiege, and the person that makes a mistake first loses the game.

Just playing devils advocate.
ok
NATO
Profile Joined April 2010
United States459 Posts
September 06 2012 01:26 GMT
#74
The problem with mech isn't the warhound, it's that the tank sucks so much it wasn't even viable before mech was made viable with warhound.
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
September 06 2012 01:31 GMT
#75
On September 06 2012 10:24 LgNKami wrote:
Dont mean to start an argument but...

Isn't mech a deathball in general? You sit behind tanks, turrets, PF's, and sensor towers until you have a maxed out deathball and then you move out.

sure you siege and unsiege every now and then but in general its just attack move. There are no spells to cast, no real micro besides siege and unsiege, and the person that makes a mistake first loses the game.

Just playing devils advocate.


I dunno how you cam to this conclusion but I will argue from a BW perspective leading into SC2

In BW mech was relatively about positioning, you cut the map with "less" units that could hold positions against bigger armies and then eventually you either win the war of attrition or you create a big enough army to push (usually leap frog) across the map and win.

In SC2 mech has turned a lot more into a "deathball" and it kind of defeats the purpose mainly because tanks a) can't hold the positions they could in BW against armies that are frankly stronger than BW armies and b) you don't have positional mines (not these new stupid mines) that can hold areas for long periods of time so that protoss would have to clear the fields before moving foward giving you time to reposition etc etc.

Now with SC2 mech, it's going from a mix between "positional" and "deathball" to pure deathball, who would make tanks in TvP and if you do it won't be many because they blow and then you'll just get this giant ball of warhound/batltehellion/thor/scvs and move around the map...

T.T
FoTG fighting!
Cedstick
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada3336 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 01:37:33
September 06 2012 01:34 GMT
#76
On September 06 2012 10:24 LgNKami wrote:
Dont mean to start an argument but...

Isn't mech a deathball in general? You sit behind tanks, turrets, PF's, and sensor towers until you have a maxed out deathball and then you move out.

sure you siege and unsiege every now and then but in general its just attack move. There are no spells to cast, no real micro besides siege and unsiege, and the person that makes a mistake first loses the game.

Just playing devils advocate.

It's actually very mechanical, as it's not really a deathball -- "deathball" implies an army on one hotkey that's on attack-move. You're asking to be destroyed if your tanks are too close; a good spread is needed. It might be a little less mechanical in execution than Brood War, but between the siege-leaping, constant re-positioning and eventual target-firing -- it will get to that point, at least on the semi-pro/pro level -- it's far more mechanical than a literal attack-moving ball-of-death. If you played competitive Terran in Brood War, you'd know the pain For real, though, once you start to be able to keep-up with the requirements of meching, it's a lot of fun.
"What does Rivington do when he's not commentating?" "Drool." ~ Categorist
Steelo_Rivers
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1968 Posts
September 06 2012 01:37 GMT
#77
On September 06 2012 10:31 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 10:24 LgNKami wrote:
Dont mean to start an argument but...

Isn't mech a deathball in general? You sit behind tanks, turrets, PF's, and sensor towers until you have a maxed out deathball and then you move out.

sure you siege and unsiege every now and then but in general its just attack move. There are no spells to cast, no real micro besides siege and unsiege, and the person that makes a mistake first loses the game.

Just playing devils advocate.


I dunno how you cam to this conclusion but I will argue from a BW perspective leading into SC2

In BW mech was relatively about positioning, you cut the map with "less" units that could hold positions against bigger armies and then eventually you either win the war of attrition or you create a big enough army to push (usually leap frog) across the map and win.

In SC2 mech has turned a lot more into a "deathball" and it kind of defeats the purpose mainly because tanks a) can't hold the positions they could in BW against armies that are frankly stronger than BW armies and b) you don't have positional mines (not these new stupid mines) that can hold areas for long periods of time so that protoss would have to clear the fields before moving foward giving you time to reposition etc etc.

Now with SC2 mech, it's going from a mix between "positional" and "deathball" to pure deathball, who would make tanks in TvP and if you do it won't be many because they blow and then you'll just get this giant ball of warhound/batltehellion/thor/scvs and move around the map...

T.T

thats what im saying though. in sc2 whenever I see anyone play mech, they play "positional" mech until they max out and then just attack move. I have yet to see a full out positional mech game. Even in the GSL. If we were talking Marine Tank, that would be completely different but only in TvT as marine tank isn't an option vs toss and its starting to die out vs zerg as people are starting to use Mech or pure bio.
ok
Kajarn
Profile Joined September 2010
United States126 Posts
September 06 2012 01:37 GMT
#78
I agree the warhound is a problem, and is just a mechanical maurader(or landed viking), but I believe their is a failure in the understanding of why the warhound even exists.

The goal of the warhound was to help TvT become less tank-liney. (However, I don't even believe this was warrented, as Thors where shown to be useful and adapent at destroying tank lines.)

The result is this boring generic unit which is well-rounded and amazing in certain senarios(breaking tank lines and vs stalkers) at the same time.

Sadly, I don't belive their is a way to save this unit. I do think that mech is still viable with the Mine, Hellion, Tank and Thor. You can still do some cute early pushes with mines, hellions and tanks, and still have a great mech late game (Thors and Ravens).

I believe Blizzard should have used this spot to add a mech unit that supports bio or a true mech caster. There are tons of creative options that could have added more depth to terran than a walking viking that shoots missles.

What about making the Warhound a walking support mech unit, which had an AOE mech repair spell, protection matrix and some other support spell along with a crappy attack. Make it reasonable gas expensive.
There is just a random idea that I thought of in 5 minutes and sounds like an infinitly better starting place than a gundam suit.


I hope the warhound doesn't ruin HOTS.




Moka
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada942 Posts
September 06 2012 01:40 GMT
#79
The warhound really need to be redesigned. I didn't watch a lot of HotS stream, but everytime that I did, I saw terrans expand their arsenal of all-ins. I saw a hellion, warhound all ins with scv pulled, and zergs didn't really had a answer to that lol =/.
ヾ(@⌒_⌒@)ノ
Zealot Lord
Profile Joined May 2010
Hong Kong747 Posts
September 06 2012 01:41 GMT
#80
There's no way the unit will get removed at this point sadly.. people have been complaining about marauders/roaches/collosus forever and its done nothing.. the only thing we can hope is that it'll be balanced properly =/



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