EPTIn other words, Blizzard is on record stating that their design of the warhound is purposely antithetical to positional mech play.
The warhound - a deathball unit, not a "mech" unit - Page 6
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The WingNut
United States35 Posts
In other words, Blizzard is on record stating that their design of the warhound is purposely antithetical to positional mech play. | ||
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HornyHerring
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
On September 06 2012 10:55 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Ok well I agree, the "tank" is the issue here because it does like 30-35 dmg? You get to 100 shot a colossus down, in BW it was 2 shot on 3-4 clumped dragoons but in SC2 you'd be lucky to kill a stalker with that many shots... I really don't know though, they're taking the game in the wrong direction though with mech and turning it into the 200/200 protoss deathball with humans instead of aliens. I feel like the longevity of the game will be what kills esports, not the industry. It'd be like having a professional league based around checkers or something, there are only so many "balanced" moves you can make ... Yeah currently the tank is absolute garbage in TvZ / TvP past a certain point because its anti-armor damage is simply too low. Vs Z they are very weak late game, and vs P they're weak as soon as enough zealot/immortal/colossus is out. Tank needs a serious buff if we're ever going to see anything resembling strategic positional mech play again. I REALLY hope they listen this time around, but if units like Colossus still being in game are any indication they won't :/ | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
*one can dream* Was watching SjoW last nite, he admitted numerous times the warhound is imba. SC2 already relies on 1 or 2 big main battles, adding a 1A unit just adds to that dumb mechanic for a RTS. Diversify the RTS play, encourage non-1A type RTS please blizzard. That would mean having weaker units in diverse roles, so it comes down to player control and reaction to decide outcomes moreso than 1A hard unit counter type play. my 2 cents. | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
On September 06 2012 11:19 HornyHerring wrote: Warhound threads everywhere! just like the marauder threads back in the Wings beta, saying OP marauder, op op op, yet no change happened to the marauder ( within the first week of the WOL beta they made concus to an upgrade and stayed the same ever since) The warhound is getting the same treatment, yet its hovering on the same lines, its actually not that great of a unit Protoss's are now figuring out mainly zealot/archon/templar/mothership combos rape it, or some air units. just dont build to many stalkers and you are fine. Massing tempest late game works as well, ( like 6-7 of them) for tvt, marines shred em apart, and "battlehellions" , dont really counter marines, due to the range differences. Both strats are around 50/50 % to eachother in regards to what you are going ( either full mech or marine tank etc) and for tvz, they are basically only being used really early in the game to apply some pressure, generally they are a waste in this matchup. all these retarded warhound threads, just calm down, keep playing folks. Save judgements for later. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
quite simply, mech needs to be reinvisioned imo. mines need to have a greater emphasis on them. Why are they 2 supply and require an armory? the warhound should require an armory, the mine should be inexpensive, 1 supply and only attacks ground, but can be countered by strong micro, but still gives terran the map control they need to help get tank counts up. Warhounds need to be anti-air specialists, they essentially need to be a goliath. tanks need to be buffed, make them strong vs. everything, especially with vipers around. in TvP, mines will be essential against gateway units and in TvZ battle hellions will probably be a better choice to counter lings, while you mass tanks up for everything else. the thor? keep it as it is, the thor is the ground walker that delivers a punch and has a long range anti-light anti air weapon. The warhound/goliath has a weaker ground attack like a vikings but packs a punch with it's anti-air missiles. maybe even keep haywire to attack ground, as long as it's primary role is for anti-air.\ mech doesn't need any more anti-ground units, the tank, battle hellion and mine are all designed for that. | ||
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Hellboy.100
Slovenia135 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On September 06 2012 11:19 The WingNut wrote: Blizzard won't change it; they specifically stated they don't like strong siege tank lines, and the warhound is designed to rip through siege lines. They also stated they WANTED to give terran an 'attack move friendly' unit. In other words, Blizzard is on record stating that their design of the warhound is purposely antithetical to positional mech play. Blizzard is such a joke these days. The 'we support eSports' is just PR spin. The only thing they care about is making the game more noob-friendly to tap into the casual market. | ||
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
On September 06 2012 11:32 emc wrote: I like the warhound more than the thor, but I don't like how the warhound is so fast, is beefy, and has a decently fast attack. this is the anti-tank? more like anti-early game unit, this thing massacres queens and any type of 1 base rax/warhound pressure in a TvP will be strong. quite simply, mech needs to be reinvisioned imo. mines need to have a greater emphasis on them. Why are they 2 supply and require an armory? the warhound should require an armory, the mine should be inexpensive and 1 supply, but can be countered by strong micro, but still gives terran the map control they need to help get tank counts up. Warhounds need to be anti-air specialists, they essentially need to be a goliath. tanks need to be buffed, make them strong vs. everything, especially with vipers around. the thor? keep it as it is, the thor is the ground walker that delivers a punch and has a long range anti-light anti air weapon. The warhound/goliath has a weaker ground attack like a vikings but packs a punch with it's anti-air missiles. maybe even keep haywire to attack ground, as long as it's primary role is for anti-air. Agree absolutely but I seriously doubt they would give Warhounds AA since it would be too close to Goliath. The best I'm hoping for is Blizzard making Warhounds slower and giving Thors a strong AA versus all air units so I can finally go pure mech without needing Vikings. That way Thors aren't 100% replaced by Warhound since they have really similar roles. | ||
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LuckyMacro
United States1482 Posts
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antifan
116 Posts
Anyway, just take away Thor and this thing and bring back Goliath. Bring back things like marine range, firebats, science vessels, Valkyries, wraiths, vultures and medics and take away Thor, hellion, marauders, medivacs, ravens, banshees and Vikings. | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On September 06 2012 11:47 antifan wrote: You kids do realize that this is a beta right? Anyway, just take away Thor and this thing and bring back Goliath. Bring back things like marine range, firebats, science vessels, Valkyries, wraiths, vultures and medics and take away Thor, hellion, marauders, medivacs, ravens, banshees and Vikings. keep the medivac, raven, banshee and viking. rest can go =) | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On September 06 2012 11:47 antifan wrote: You kids do realize that this is a beta right? . Yeah, like we did during the WoL beta... and look how that turned out. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
As I and many others predicted, warhound is terrible from a design perspective, and indeed it somehow also made it into the beta with broken stats to boot! | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
- David Kim(If he was "Balancing" Chess) | ||
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Cedstick
Canada3336 Posts
On September 06 2012 11:38 Scarecrow wrote: Blizzard is such a joke these days. The 'we support eSports' is just PR spin. The only thing they care about is making the game more noob-friendly to tap into the casual market. They do support eSports, though. Have you completely forgot this whole WCS thing? They just have their priorities a little skewed -- instead of designing so that higher-level games can be mechanically and intellectually fun, challenging and rewarding, as well as fun to watch, they're... well, doing as you said. You can't say they don't support eSports, though. As has been mentioned, another problem with mech is simply the tank itself; immortals rip it to shreds. I do think that widow mines will hugely change how mech-vs-protoss battles will pan-out, though, assuming the warhound isn't in the picture. I've seen a pretty well-positioned mech army take-on an army of stalkers and immortals, with a huge number of the ladder, and I think if we threw mines in to the equation things would make mech a lot more viable. If not... well, something will either have to be done about the tank or the immortal. In the end, though, the first step is to take the warhound out, or significantly change it. As I mentioned earlier, I'd love if the thor and warhound were replaced by the goliath. Bam, we have BW mech -- and being similar to BW is not a bad thing. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On September 06 2012 08:55 avilo wrote: Yes, I would have that question too, "where does it leave the thor?" Because the change i propose may overlap with the thor's AA role as well. Since none of us directly work for blizzard, that would be up to them to handle :D The reason I mention the design idea I came up with is in line with blizzard's concept for the warhound is because originally they indeed were having a similar ideas for the role of the warhound to be an anti-air unit, to the point they previously considered removing the thor if necessary. The warhound would be good against smaller numbers of stronger air units, while Thors could support versus larger numbers of weaker air units. Thors would force mutas to split so that they're less effective against the warhound, etc. Really, there just needs to be a seige tank upgrade available at the fusion core that makes them do 15-20 more damage or something. They're pretty good in WoL, but they feel WAY weaker in HotS. With that being said, I'm actually impressed with the HotS beta, it's far better than I expected. Literally the only thing I actually STRONGLY dislike is the warhound, and even that is only a few minor changes away from being useful, balanced, and interesting. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18017 Posts
Warhounds .. or Warhound complaint threads  | ||
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DreamTheaterFan
Canada52 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
It will stay a 1a unit because there's no time designing something else | ||
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