On September 06 2012 09:04 iaguz wrote: Avilo you fool! The warhound is the first reasonably priced unit that lets us smack around queens early game, don't complain about it!
lmao, I know that's true too, it actually allows Terran to force Zerg larva into units other than drones @_@ and balances that aspect that's currently broken in WOL (imo and most other T's opinions).
But the beta is for feedback not "make my race imba."
On September 06 2012 11:23 Parcelleus wrote: Just get the guys who created and balanced DoW1 to take over sc2. GG /thread.
*one can dream*
Was watching SjoW last nite, he admitted numerous times the warhound is imba.
SC2 already relies on 1 or 2 big main battles, adding a 1A unit just adds to that dumb mechanic for a RTS. Diversify the RTS play, encourage non-1A type RTS please blizzard. That would mean having weaker units in diverse roles, so it comes down to player control and reaction to decide outcomes moreso than 1A hard unit counter type play.
my 2 cents.
I agree with this completely, but Blizzard wants this to be a 1A unit on purpose, which is pretty stupid in my opinion. It takes away the Terran feel from SC1 and revamps it into this boring 1a2a3a 1A play..
The whole point of the Warhound in TvT was that it would break siege lines and force Tank/Marine players to keep their units in a deathball if they wanted to combat Battle Hellion/Warhound. David Kim even said it in this video at 6:00:
"So obviously if all these Siege tanks and Marines were packed up tightly..." Nice David Kim, encourage dem deathballs!
So yes, they saw the 1a deathball combat in late game PvP and figured that was better than spreading out tanks strategically.
So this isn't some kind of secret, it is intended. I was actually going to make a thread on this and why HOTS is going to be awful, and this was one of my points. Blizzard clearly contradicts themselves when they say they didn't want to encourage deathball play with the new units, but then release units like this and destroy the one matchup that isn't dominated by deathball play.
Fact of the matter, Blizzard has no idea what is it doing (evidenced further by the ever changing widow mine, removal of the Shredder and Replicant and the changing role of the Tempest).
On September 06 2012 12:56 BronzeKnee wrote: The whole point of the Warhound was that it would break siege lines in TvT and force Tank/Marine players to keep their units in a deathball if they wanted to combat Battle Hellion/Warhound. David Kim even said it in this video at 6:00.
"So obviously if all these Siege tanks and Marines were packed up tightly..."
So yes, they saw the 1a deathball combat in late game PvP and figured that was better than spreading out tanks strategically.
So this isn't some kind of secret, it is intended.
Ah yes, the crux of my issues with what I'm seeing, a bit nail on the head there. It's not that there are these unintended changes that are being taken advantage of by the community, it's that they're meant to function in that way
On September 06 2012 12:56 BronzeKnee wrote: So yes, they saw the 1a deathball combat in late game PvP and figured that was better than spreading out tanks strategically.
whats wrong with terran getting a 1a unit though? protoss has colossus and zerg has roach and if you are so against amove are you gonna petition to remove those as well?
How about making the "haywire missiles" ability a targetable anti-mech area of effect that requires the entering of a "siege mode" of sorts? Just an idea...
On September 06 2012 13:07 zala2023 wrote: whats wrong with terran getting a 1a unit though? protoss has colossus and zerg has roach and if you are so against amove are you gonna petition to remove those as well?
Lot's of people think the game would be better without Collosus in it, me for one and I play Protoss. I'm not going to go around petitioning people, but sure be content with boring units when Blizzard can (and should) do better.
Is anyone surprised really? I mean Blizzard came out and said they wanted the terran to have a unit they can 1a and use the extra APM to micro other things. Make the warhound a siege unit? WTF that's so stupid. You've already said that terran has to think about where to position the widowmine, sieging tanks, and deciding which form the hellions need to be in, why do they need more micro or decision making??? If anything, other races need to catch up in microing instead of 1a'ing their deathball.
avilo's coming up with so many whiny post lately, no wonder people hate him.
I really feel like you could take a bunch of pros, few from NA, few from KOR, few from EUR and throw them in a room for 24 hours and they could make such a more complete/all around better SC2 game than Browder/Kim...
On September 06 2012 13:11 bucckevin wrote: Is anyone surprised really? I mean Blizzard came out and said they wanted the terran to have a unit they can 1a and use the extra APM to micro other things. Make the warhound a siege unit? WTF that's so stupid. You've already said that terran has to think about where to position the widowmine, sieging tanks, and deciding which form the hellions need to be in, why do they need more micro or decision making??? If anything, other races need to catch up in microing instead of 1a'ing their deathball.
avilo's coming up with so many whiny post lately, no wonder people hate him.
Perhaps he does, this was a pretty good post and well laid-out. 'No wonder people hate him' is a terrible way to end a post too.
If you had the patience to read the thread you'd know that players from other races have been advocating making the difficulty of playing Protoss/Zerg higher, at least the control aspect. Not many people are desiring Terran to have an equivalent a-move composition. Oh wow, positioning widowmines, sieging tanks before you a-move, that's where any difficulty lies.
On September 06 2012 13:12 Nizzy wrote: I really feel like you could take a bunch of pros, few from NA, few from KOR, few from EUR and throw them in a room for 24 hours and they could make such a more complete/all around better SC2 game than Browder/Kim...
for both new players and pro its pathetic
that is what the MOD kit is for...
anyone i know who bought WC3 in the past 5 years bought it to play DOTA and have not touched the core WC3 product. SC2 has a MOD kit and any one is free to build their own game.
I don't understand why Warhounds are mechanical counters. It seems very out of place for what's supposed to be a meat unit. It seems to give advantage over units that makes it really hard to balance. I'm all for seeing Warhound use in every matchup, but they'll always be way too good against Protoss and Terran ground. They get the benefit of complete ground dominance (like Colossi) but none of the disadvantages.
IF this is all true... And I can imagine Blizzard is too 1337 to recognice anything anyone tells them there is really no reason to keep up wasting time playing the precious game that is called starcraft 2.
This is unbelievable. Can please someone show them a game of pre patch zvt? Or a game of BW PvT? They need to get their shit together this is a huge mass.
Just fyi btw, I made this thread with the intention of discussing the design aspect of the warhound, not whether or not it's currently balanced.
It's too early to tell if people simply suck at HOTS or if the warhound is "too good" or "too bad." A few days from now we may find out warhounds actually suck lmao :D
On September 06 2012 15:42 avilo wrote: Just fyi btw, I made this thread with the intention of discussing the design aspect of the warhound, not whether or not it's currently balanced.
It's too early to tell if people simply suck at HOTS or if the warhound is "too good" or "too bad." A few days from now we may find out warhounds actually suck lmao :D
You're right about the very idea of the unit though, it doesn't matter at all how it goes against other units, it's the very IDEA of implementing a 1a unit into the game as a means of "improving" it that should offend absolutely anybody who actually cares about the game.
If you cater to nothing but people who are extremely casual, you'll drive away the core and the casual audience will move on anyway.
EPT
