| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS |
|
Parnage
United States7414 Posts
The Terrans have no issue throwing men at the problem it seems reasonable for most of the Terran Commanders to be abit careless with the lives of the men who are already condemned. I am surprised they made no mention of the armories most positive contribution that of reading up on all the units and the bits of lore and amusing background put in for units like Vulture Spider mines having a horror movie franchise and the Siege tanker with built in sound system. | ||
|
Gradius
United States112 Posts
 On April 15 2012 20:51 Checkm8 wrote: Hahaha this :D Yeah, I mean why the heck do you want to make the scout pilot a substitute for Zeratul when it was the latter who done almost everything in BW for protoss? (with the exception of carrying the Uraj, spearheading the attack on the UED blockade, attacking Kerrigan in the final zerg mission, and being Zeratul's sidekick) In terms of being the one to reunite the protoss, why the heck would Artanis be the one to try, when it was his Conclave that made things difficult for other protoss tribes? (the dts being one) Well, are you really ready to spend 20 more missions pillaging tombs for crystals & artifacts, listening to Zeratul mutter basic combat instructions to himself? Personally I'd rather lead invasions and purify planets of Zerg. Because that's what you'll be doing if you play as somebody who is actually with the main Protoss empire. Zeratul may be the more interesting character, but Artanis is the better candidate here because is young and ascended to the rank of Heirarch so quick: somebody that everyone can rally behind. Zeratul's niche is wandering the void and doing secret ninja stuff. Artanis...this is all he's been doing his entire life. And we can still see Zeratul in the game after all. On April 17 2012 07:26 Feb wrote: this was pretty good, and they make several valid points, though i disagree with them on a couple (such as calling horner a good character, he contributes nothing to the plot and has no conflict with anyone and to me came off as yet another wasted opportunity. Hey, he didn't act like a retard, so can't we just leave it at that? x) On April 17 2012 07:26 Feb wrote:i also disagreed with their feelings about selendis, the protoss campaign of starcraft clearly demonstrated that the protoss arrogantly believe themselves superior and allow themselves to sidetrack their fight against the swarm to put tassadar on trial or be racist towards zeratul, they have little to no regard for the lives of their race (possibly due to ressurection technology), and many enjoy combat for the sake of combat (look at almost any dialogue involving fenix)). I never heard of protoss having resurrection tech, and it's clear that they care about their lives. They may be overly zealous, but this does not give them a license to act like idiots. The main theme of the Protoss in StarCraft II is that the devastating population losses have forced them to adapt. From recalling weapons that they once thought were too powerful for them to use i.e. Mothership and Colossus, to using dishonorable tactics such as Phoenix Overload (when it still existed), to saving warriors from death by warping them back to a safe haven using their power suit, to saving warriors from death yet again by fitting them into Immortals, Dragoons and Stalkers, it is clear that Protoss place a high value on lives. Selendis in a way encompasses this new attitude as a newly elected official. She was also portrayed as highly rational and intelligent in the dark templar saga, so this behavior coming from her is utterly incongruous. Some of it feels a little nit-picky, such as the condemnation of the tal'darim. Blizzard wasn't being insensitive to religious folks, the tal'darim was portrayed as an extremist band... But this is what I'm talking about. What does it mean to be an extremist band and why does it give Raynor the right to murder & pillage them? The Tal'Darim certainly did not endear themselves to us by killing the Moebius team, but they likely told Moebius the same thing they told Raynor: please leave or we'll resort to force. On April 17 2012 09:54 Parnage wrote: Good article but seems to have this confusion for why the characters care little for the men who die for them. If memory serves most of the Dominions forces are prisoners who got mind swiped for combat. Those men have no value because they are essentially already dead by the mere fact that they have been conscripted. I mean even in BroodWar the only reason Lore wise for the medic to be placed in the field as a unit was to improve marine survival by what was it two seconds? The Terrans have no issue throwing men at the problem it seems reasonable for most of the Terran Commanders to be abit careless with the lives of the men who are already condemned. I am surprised they made no mention of the armories most positive contribution that of reading up on all the units and the bits of lore and amusing background put in for units like Vulture Spider mines having a horror movie franchise and the Siege tanker with built in sound system. The Dominion seems to employ a mix. The extended fiction shows that they abduct innocent people and then resocialize them. Warfield did thank Raynor for saving "his boys", he just doesn't seem to care that Raynor slaughters Dominion soldiers en-masse every other time. | ||
|
Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
| ||
|
Meatloaf
Spain664 Posts
Now theres nothing to be done , well have the same character treatment for Kerrigan and Zeratul , a character with no apparent downsides and that outwits everyone else in the galaxy bc hey , you are the player and youre playing a badass!! well , lets see with HotS but the campaign was certainly disappointing story-wise as SC:L says. | ||
|
Belha
Italy2850 Posts
| ||
|
HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On April 17 2012 16:23 Meatloaf wrote: if they would have sticked to the player being a "noname" commander / cerebrate / executor... everything woulda been different. I agree. In fact I would say it would've been "better". Half the reason why SC/BW had such a great storyline is because you as a player are personally planted into the story (particularly for Terran and Protoss, Zerg is somewhat shafted because they're pretty much a mindless drone for the Overmind/Kerrigan). It's also part of the reason why the UED in BW worked as well as it did, despite being an entirely new faction. Personally, I think for at least Wings of Liberty, it would've been best to have a "Create-a-Character" mode where you can essentially make an avatar for yourself to be a Commander on the Hyperion, similar to how it was done in SC/BW, or even SW:KOTOR for that matter. It would've allowed Raynor to not be player driven, and therefore less schizophrenic. On the article itself I 100% agree on wishing Blizzard never allow us to choose the order of missions. If they do, every other mission choice needs to be locked out right after it. The plot becomes isolated and fragmented otherwise. | ||
|
Tamburlaine
Canada288 Posts
A bit too soft on Horner, though. Sure he had a consistent character, but he also had a useless character. Should've at least made him the magistrate from SC1... | ||
|
Feb
98 Posts
I never heard of protoss having resurrection tech, and it's clear that they care about their lives. They may be overly zealous, but this does not give them a license to act like idiots. The main theme of the Protoss in StarCraft II is that the devastating population losses have forced them to adapt. From recalling weapons that they once thought were too powerful for them to use i.e. Mothership and Colossus, to using dishonorable tactics such as Phoenix Overload (when it still existed), to saving warriors from death by warping them back to a safe haven using their power suit, to saving warriors from death yet again by fitting them into Immortals, Dragoons and Stalkers, it is clear that Protoss place a high value on lives. Selendis in a way encompasses this new attitude as a newly elected official. She was also portrayed as highly rational and intelligent in the dark templar saga, so this behavior coming from her is utterly incongruous. in original starcraft and brood war, dragoons were resurrected zealots, implying limited but available resurrection technology. i also feel their treatment of tassadar and the actions of aldaris (and circumstances surrounding his death), imply that a large number of the protoss population don't have a ton of regard for the lives of their people especially when faced with the threat of betrayal (which raynor's resistance could be viewed as). | ||
|
Scrutinizer
170 Posts
Many very good points that certainly need to be addressed. It just goes on to show that Blizzard has unfortunately become just "a company" and no real enthusiasts such as yourself are employed for the plot consistency (or equivalent) even if there are tons of them around, they do not hold their game dearly as they were in the past, it is just a product for the kids. This made me laugh hard among all others: "As for the Hanson arc, if you side with Hanson, it turns out that the infestation was relatively minor and that the Protoss were overreacting. If you side with the Protoss, it turns out there is a full blown infestation and Hanson was the one overreacting. The universe and reality shifts based on Raynor's choice to make him look like he can do no wrong. Raynor is infallible." It summarizes well the point you make in general. And the part about the Taldarim massacres is a marvelous identification of a sociological tendency. The fact did not even tingle the "scenarist" there, whose point of view is ironically quite parallel to the world view of the standard american about the self-righteous invasions of the recent years for some black artifact found in the soil. The story has clearly fallen so far in essence compared to that of the original. | ||
|
Tamburlaine
Canada288 Posts
On April 18 2012 04:59 Feb wrote: in original starcraft and brood war, dragoons were resurrected zealots, implying limited but available resurrection technology. i also feel their treatment of tassadar and the actions of aldaris (and circumstances surrounding his death), imply that a large number of the protoss population don't have a ton of regard for the lives of their people especially when faced with the threat of betrayal (which raynor's resistance could be viewed as). Not resurrected, merely wounded in action. The dragoon was one part tank, one part life support. | ||
|
pookums
151 Posts
| ||
|
Rizare
Canada592 Posts
The missions weren't really too exciting, but that's just me | ||
|
TheRealDudeMan
United States213 Posts
| ||
|
Alacast
United States205 Posts
| ||
|
Telenil
France484 Posts
On April 18 2012 10:01 TheRealDudeMan wrote: To be fair, Hanson's death was the one moment in which I felt I was in a Brood War sequel. In my mind she was the pretty, good-hearten girl that couldn't possibly be harmed given the general ambiance of the game, I really didn't it coming.Great read. Heart of the swarm definitely needs to bring some of the more darker concepts back. There were so many missions in Brood War where I felt as if I was defending someones honor or getting vengeance. The objectives even seemed important. Alexei Stukov was my favorite character. He was military at heart and then Duran just murders him in cold blood. Where were any of those moments in SC2? People tend to believe she was experimenting on herself, but I never quite got why. She could just as well have been infected on Agria along with some of her colonists, with the virus taking longer than usual to affect her. | ||
|
Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
| ||
|
Rowrin
United States280 Posts
On April 18 2012 23:37 Sbrubbles wrote: If HotS is any good it will start off with Kerrigan returning to her BW days badassery (along with Glynnis Campbell’s voice acting) by infesting the Hyperion on mission 1. Jim wouldn't be any happier than serving his queen. i predict a massive plot hole. In one version of the campaign, hansen finds a cure, in another she dies before finding the cure. Edit: but wait, i just realized something. In brood war there was already a cure for infestation because they used it on reanimated alexi. Wat? | ||
|
voltaic
1071 Posts
| ||
|
nerak
Brazil256 Posts
 Don't forget Starcraft Armory. They have around the same activity SCLegacy does. (and of course there's SC Reddit, but two things those guys hate are single player and reading) And the part about the Taldarim massacres is a marvelous identification of a sociological tendency. The fact did not even tingle the "scenarist" there, whose point of view is ironically quite parallel to the world view of the standard american about the self-righteous invasions of the recent years for some black artifact found in the soil. Since 2008 or 2009 I think, when I saw this Blizzcon panel where they showed a demo mission where they were retrieving an artifact from the "Protoss fanatics", I thought "this is not heading the way it should..." It is very funny that for some Americans the fact that someone is "fanatic" about something automatically turns those people stupid and violent. If you read SC's manual, you'll see Metzen frankly believes "socialism" is evil and genocidal; yet, DuGalle and Stokov are awesome, tragic characters. They want to have "fanatics" as evil, fine, but where's their humanity? I guess that's what war does to people: there was no war in 1998, and now SC is a little closer to an 80's action movie. To be fair, Hanson's death was the one moment in which I felt I was in a Brood War sequel. In my mind she was the pretty, good-hearten girl that couldn't possibly be harmed given the general ambiance of the game, I really didn't it coming. People tend to believe she was experimenting on herself, but I never quite got why. She could just as well have been infected on Agria along with some of her colonists, with the virus taking longer than usual to affect her. I don't know why are people always saying she experimented on herself. I agree that Raynor's choices change reality; but sometimes I try hard to believe that Raynor's insensibility upset Hanson so much she couldn't find the cure in time. But no matter how hard I try there is no way the story can be understood this way... This is definitely Brood War. But there are also other moments that are somewhat dark too: - The ending of New Folsom if you side with Tosh. Nobody is dieing here, but it shows that Raynor is actually more like Tosh than like Matt. - When Raynor accepts the deal with Valerian, he kind of freaks out. His obsession shows to be more important than everything. He's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. And that's about it  | ||
|
DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
I thought the plot suggestions were absolutely ridiculous. Apparently they've never played a Blizzard game before, because the Underdog always wins all the time. This has actually been rather consistent in Blizzard. Saying that it's silly that Raynor could have bested all these people who supposedly outmatch him is idiotic. We're the underdog. How about the last mission of Brood War, where Kerrigan is the underdog? She fights off three fleets while completely out of position. How about the last mission of WC3: FT? Arthas was supposedly "evenly-matched" at the end of WC3: RoC, and now Illidian has become more demonic and stolen the Eye of Sargeras as well as the Skull of Gul'dan, and yet Arthas now beats Illidian? Well of course, because he's the underdog. It is perfectly acceptable to have the underdog win in these stories, and in fact, I think it's rather necessary to have a fun campaign. Valerian instead of Raynor? What a bizarre suggestion. Especially as that would make you not the underdog, and would reveal far too much far too quickly. It's really a faulty idea, and doesn't make any sense. Artanis instead of Zeratul? Why? Both could work perfectly fine imo, so I don't really care. But his reasoning is stupid and nonsensical. It just makes him sound like an arrogant prick. He makes some valid points, but after reading those I was simply inclined to disagree because I didn't like him. He also insults Tricia Helfer totally randomly. What was his problem with her performance? I honestly don't know, because he doesn't tell us. The author just apparently wanted to insult her. Clearly this is a very high quality review that deserves our respect /sarcasm. The Zerg were incredibly frightening in WoL, even if Kerrigan may have gotten a downgrade. In nearly every mission they were portrayed as some unstoppable swarm that is constantly attacking everywhere at once. I'm surprised he criticized that as I felt they were some of the best world-building that WoL had. The Overmind was not trashed like so many people seem to claim. The entire idea that the Overmind was a slave to the Xel'Naga was grossly hinted at throughout the lore and throughout the series. I have absolutely no idea why people consider this a retcon. It is probably one of the most blatantly canon ideas out there and always has been. The Overmind in SC1 had the exact same goal that the Xel'Naga had: Merge the Zerg and the Protoss together (he even mentions the Purity of Essence and Purity of Form in the campaign FFS). Apparently people want this to be a coincidence? This was the Overmind's singular purpose, and this is why he does everything that he does in SC1 (except for Kerrigan, obviously). This was no retcon. I honestly think this was planned in SC1, and am very shocked that people consider that a retcon of any sort. Criticizing the Dark Voice when we don't know anything about him is stupid. Obviously he's supposed to be mysterious, so the question becomes "do we want to know more about him?" The answer is yes, we want to know more. Therefore he is as successful as he can be in the first installment. It'd be like criticizing Emperor Palpatine after only watching A New Hope. I actually think he's wrong about the way the Dominion worked. The idea was that the Dominion united all the factions together. So there may have been rebel factions here and there from Umajon or whatever, but there aren't really any other terran factions to have any sort of power struggle with. They've all been united. I dunno, I could be wrong. His criticism of the newscasts was weird. They actually did a pretty good job of not re-using the joke too much and varying it a bit. I didn't understand his criticism at all. The criticism of the artifact is total fucking bullshit. You cannot claim that Kerrigan is now good because she's human when we have not even seen her be human! You can't claim this shifts things from a grey morality to a black-and-white morality when we haven't seen it! What the fuck kind of assumption is that? That's the stupidest criticism in the whole thing. If anything, the transformation from Kerrigan to human raises all sorts of awesome moral questions! You don't just get to say "Oh well now that she's human, she's a good guy" when that hasn't been shown or even implied in the story! That's a completely random criticism. It would be like if I said "I don't like how Zeratul is total sissy in Legacy of the Void." Where did that even come from! I did think the characterization of Raynor as a schizophrenic was pretty funny though. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Dota 2 League of Legends Counter-Strike Other Games |
|
Escore
RSL Revival
Big Brain Bouts
PiG vs DeMusliM
Reynor vs Bunny
Replay Cast
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
Classic vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Percival
herO vs Clem
ByuN vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
BSL
Sparkling Tuna Cup
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
