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As for the voice acting, SC's Kerrigan sounded more evil and infested. In WoL, the voice is just gloomy, still it's ok and I don't mind that much. I do miss, however, Zeratul from part 1. What we hear in SC2 sounds like old sage, not like dark freaking ninja assassin. It was perfect back in BW - cold, dark, with a little bit of goodness and anxiety. The "dark" and "cold" part is missing completely, while there is too much of "goodness" and "anxiety" now. But, it's been 4 years, mb Zeratul aged.
Sadly, I need to agree with the review. It looks like writers never played through liberty campaign as a whole. Here are some of my thoughts:
- I would love to see Raiders growing in numbers. I think about flexible supply cap - let's say u start with 40 people, u can then make only units worth of 40 supply. Some volunteers would then join you after mission, increasing the cap. Soldiers died? Sorry, ur cap goes down. Then, it wouldn't matter IF u finished the mission, but HOW u finished the mission. It would be a challenge, and add a lot of logic to the game.
- Why do we see Hyperion in fight just once, and even then we can't control it? It's the most powerful weapon Raynor has, why use it only to travel between worlds?
The idea had huge potential, and it simply feels wasted.
I won't say anything about overmind turning out to be good, Raynor not even trying to help his best friend, all these were described in review and I agree with them.
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Matt Horner is a character taken from the very same book.
so what? they copied a name from a book, until they actually do anything in one of there games to validate important lore from a book (something like the taldarim or ulrezaj) then as far as im concerned, the books are nice but not actually canon
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On April 21 2012 23:25 Forikorder wrote:so what? they copied a name from a book, until they actually do anything in one of there games to validate important lore from a book (something like the taldarim or ulrezaj) then as far as im concerned, the books are nice but not actually canon
Fine, you're entitled to believe that, but yet again I gave you a link to an interview that proves you're wrong.
Again, please consider whether your response is based on logic and actual faults as opposed to being an emotional retaliation.
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Fine, you're entitled to believe that, but yet again I gave you a link to an interview that proves you're wrong.
sure they say its all canon, but the taldarim are obviously not the books taldarim
in that crappy n64 game raynor knows they find a cure for the infestation yet he never mentions it to hanson
when book lore and game lore clashs game lore wins every single time
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On April 22 2012 00:29 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +Fine, you're entitled to believe that, but yet again I gave you a link to an interview that proves you're wrong. sure they say its all canon, but the taldarim are obviously not the books taldarim in that crappy n64 game raynor knows they find a cure for the infestation yet he never mentions it to hanson when book lore and game lore clashs game lore wins every single time
can you please stop bringing up pointless things Forikorder? you dont agree with the article?its fine.
Im with Gradius in that praising blizzard for their "awesome storytelling" its not how you get things the way you want , I love the SC saga and played it since 98 , of course they can do what they want with it , its their fuckin IP , but we are free to express what we want.
The way the story is approached in WoL ends up having a shallow plot and the ramifications only help getting you out of the grand scope of things that sc1 and BW had.
In the end the only thing thats clear is that Raynor its a goddamn badass that puts the Dominion at checkmate AND stops a fucken intergalactic zerg domination with ONE (1) battlecruiser and his crew.
of course not everyone will think like this , but it expresses what some people felt when playing the game.
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All right clearly I've put you waaaay too far on the defensive Gradius. Obviously, my fault for being so aggressive in the first place. It's just that with all the balance whine in the community and such I get frustrated with the massive amount of negativity on these forums.
Claiming I am discouraging criticism, using your own subjectivity argument against yourself, this isn't sensible. It just sounds like you don't have any experience criticizing acting, let alone voice acting. Which is fine of course, but I would hope you would at least recognize your own weakness.
Edit: Please do not shut out all criticism of you as being emotionally driven. I was careful to explain my outrage very clearly, and though I was emotional I was speaking perfectly rationally. I am only speaking calmly now because I don't want you to shut out criticism.
Anyway, I hope your writing continues to improve. Glhf!
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I think people put Starcraft 1/Brood War at too high of a pedestal. For example at the end of the Starcraft 1 Terran campaign they "kill off" Kerrigan and turn Mengsk into a throwaway character. Instead of curing Kerrigan in Brood War they have the UED show up out of nowhere for no reason.
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On April 22 2012 07:29 Darknat wrote:
I think people put Starcraft 1/Brood War at too high of a pedestal. For example at the end of the Starcraft 1 Terran campaign they "kill off" Kerrigan and turn Mengsk into a throwaway character. Instead of curing Kerrigan in Brood War they have the UED show up out of nowhere for no reason.
In WoL they brought him back and made him the big bad boss (with only the Dark Voice being more evil), even though he lost almost everything to UED and Kerrigan. A bit inconsistent of them.
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There is no need to be patronizing.
Hey sorry about that. Remember English isn't my natural language. I feel like wearing a scafandrum when I try to communicate in English, and my communication gets clumsy.
figures of speech are not allowed
Well, we always communicate to a real interlocutors, not to ideal ones. It's fine to expect common sense from others but if they don't have your kind of common sense, you also have to adapt.
If Raynor had an actual army and Blizzard didn't paint themselves into a corner when the novels decided he only has 40 people, then yeah
I agree with you, there is no reason why Raynor's rebellion couldn't be described as bigger. But about the "40 people", there is indeed no proof the crew remained so low after the Brood War. Actually it seems that Swann, for example, joined later. So how many people joined him? I would expect at least hundreds, other people could say dozens. All we know is that we don't know how many people crew the Hyperion in 2504. All we know is that the Hyperion is all they have.
I do miss, however, Zeratul from part 1. What we hear in SC2 sounds like old sage, not like dark freaking ninja assassin. It was perfect back in BW - cold, dark, with a little bit of goodness and anxiety. The "dark" and "cold" part is missing completely, while there is too much of "goodness" and "anxiety" now. But, it's been 4 years, mb Zeratul aged.
The original actor is dead. About what you wrote comparing the two actors, I agree 100% with you. I wish best of luck to the new actor. He took a hard job to do.
can you please stop bringing up pointless things Forikorder? you dont agree with the article?its fine.
Im with Gradius in that praising blizzard for their "awesome storytelling" its not how you get things the way you want , I love the SC saga and played it since 98 , of course they can do what they want with it , its their fuckin IP , but we are free to express what we want.
The way the story is approached in WoL ends up having a shallow plot and the ramifications only help getting you out of the grand scope of things that sc1 and BW had.
In the end the only thing thats clear is that Raynor its a goddamn badass that puts the Dominion at checkmate AND stops a fucken intergalactic zerg domination with ONE (1) battlecruiser and his crew.
of course not everyone will think like this , but it expresses what some people felt when playing the game.
Totally agreed. People will have different opinions.
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This is a very well thought out and diligent review, kudos to you guys for taking the time to make it. While I was not so upset about the terrible story and characters during my first play through of WoL time has only made it more and more obvious how bad the story in WoL actually is. This review very fairly addresses pretty much anything you can think of in the story and very cleanly and clearly points out what the flaws are. Again, great job.
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Great review, if a little bit belated 
And yes I agree with pretty much everything. While I love starcraft 2 (the gameplay is unparalleled imho), the writing is unforgiveable. It's so bad to the point that when I played I felt condescended; as if Blizzard was treating me like a 5 year old and expecting to gobble up the bullshit story because of -you know- lasers and explosions and space and stuff.
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This review blew my mind and actually made me think about the story a little bit and how flawed it really is. The most bothersome part that stood out to me is the element of choice, how can you even bother to make a compelling story when you give players a choice that will divide the lore. + Show Spoiler +Like tosh is either dead with one choice or alive in another, it bugs the shit out of me.
I'd really like to see just one author come up with the plot so its consistant, it seems like a ton of blizzard empolyees are pitching in, we got authors of different books pitching it, everything just turns into a confusing fucking mess. Red shirt guy pointed out a flaw like that in WoW, which to me is a dead universe thanks to the mmorpg.
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This article is very well written and I have to agree with it completely. There was never a moment in the SC2 campaign that reached the magnitude of many of the exciting events of the SC Vanilla and BW campaigns, such as + Show Spoiler +Death of Zasz, Death of Fenix, Kerrigan popping out of the Chrystalis, etc etc
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On April 22 2012 15:54 Wasteweiser wrote:This review blew my mind and actually made me think about the story a little bit and how flawed it really is. The most bothersome part that stood out to me is the element of choice, how can you even bother to make a compelling story when you give players a choice that will divide the lore. + Show Spoiler +Like tosh is either dead with one choice or alive in another, it bugs the shit out of me. I'd really like to see just one author come up with the plot so its consistant, it seems like a ton of blizzard empolyees are pitching in, we got authors of different books pitching it, everything just turns into a confusing fucking mess. Red shirt guy pointed out a flaw like that in WoW, which to me is a dead universe thanks to the mmorpg.
I dunno, can't you just say that one choice is canon and one is not? I think Blizzard has openly said that going with Tosh and going with Hansen is meant to be canon. There may have been specific issues with the choices that they give us (like the reality-shifting aspects or the sheer absurdity of going with Nova), but the system itself seems fine.
And I don't think you can make a story like this without a committee. I mean the level designers have to be working pretty tightly with the lore and storyboard people so that everything gels together.
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Don't sweat Forikorder Gradius, the guy isn't being reasonable and at this point is just trolling. I thought what you had to say in the review was well thought out and intelligent.
I hadn't even considered having the story told from Valerian's point of view, and I agree that would have made for a much better story. That would follow a precedent set by most of BW, where Blizz wasn't afraid to have Raynors exploits told in the background while we look at the point of view of a larger faction with more scope such as the protoss or the UED.
I'd need to read it again in order to evaluate whether you were too harsh here, but I feel like even Plinkett couldn't be too harsh to this story, and that is saying a lot (http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/)
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To me, the biggest flaw in the campaign is related to:
Raynor’s final words in StarCraft Brood War were the following: “I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan. For Fenix and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power!”
Going from that attitude to "OH KERRIGAN MY LOST LOVE" was just too unbelievable. Had he had the BW attitude, and had to reconcile that she was going to be some sort of savior, that would have made an excellent, if predictable, story line.
Out of all the choices made during the campaign, Raynor's make the least sense, and that's really saying something.
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On April 22 2012 09:52 nerak wrote:Show nested quote +If Raynor had an actual army and Blizzard didn't paint themselves into a corner when the novels decided he only has 40 people, then yeah I agree with you, there is no reason why Raynor's rebellion couldn't be described as bigger. But about the "40 people", there is indeed no proof the crew remained so low after the Brood War. Actually it seems that Swann, for example, joined later. So how many people joined him? I would expect at least hundreds, other people could say dozens. All we know is that we don't know how many people crew the Hyperion in 2504. All we know is that the Hyperion is all they have.
The crew has to be more than dozens, it is an RTS game where you can (theoretically) produce thousands of units in one mission if enough die. With only the Hyperion's crew it seems like these losses would quickly destroy the ability to run the ship and clashes with the unit descriptions since I think most terran bio consists of convicts forced into military service. (Aren't they all convicts?)
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(Aren't they all convicts?)
Most of Marines are. But the Raiders are revolutionaries, they just use the same equipment the Dominion does.
But I agree, even if the Raiders were hundreds of men, each battle would cost them many lives - even if they always won. Saying that everyone they have is inside the Hyperion is totally unrealistic.
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I don't know, but i think that Blizzard will keep the Hollywood cheesy theme for the other 2 expansions. I guess they gave up on writing a good script for SC2. It is a general phenomenon that happens lately in most of the media. See the ME3 ending which was plain bad (though the whole game up this point had a plot that the best books could hope for), Dragon Age 2, . The same goes for most TV series and movies (Avatar, Terminator 3&4, the new Indiana Jones movie, the ending of LOST, Heroes and countless more).
It seems the only good writings can come from comic books and text books like The walking dead, Game of thrones, Hobbit, X-Men, Batman, etc. Don't get me wrong I know these are old stuff but this is no excuse for the writers of new stories. If you cannot do it properly just hire some guys who can, or suffer the criticism. Of course there are exceptions like the Bathesda games (Fallout and Elder Scrolls), the old Starcraft story, Warcraft story (dono about WoW). There new stories are really engaging and worth the time and money you invest.
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On April 22 2012 22:24 Witten wrote:This article is very well written and I have to agree with it completely. There was never a moment in the SC2 campaign that reached the magnitude of many of the exciting events of the SC Vanilla and BW campaigns, such as + Show Spoiler +Death of Zasz, Death of Fenix, Kerrigan popping out of the Chrystalis, etc etc
At that time, we all were easier to impress.
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EPT
