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On November 02 2011 17:32 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 17:12 ArcticRaven wrote:On November 02 2011 14:25 kcdc wrote:Second, the tempest is the perfect complement to a colossus deathball since it kills corruptors and vikings. Ooooh.... I don't think so. The way they presented it, it's mostly a flying Thor, and It's gonna get kited by vikings and out-dpsed by corrupters (which are going to counter it as they do every capital ship). They did say that the tempest is meant to be good against EVERY air unit, but especially against mutalisks. That to me means it might support a colossus army better than phoenixes or void rays. On topic: i'm unsure about the Oracle. I think it's strength is more about the tech raiding ability than shutting down the minerals (although it will be hilarious to wait until terrans drop 10 mules on a gold, and then entombing it); i'm just not sure if p will be able to use it reliably, or if it will only be for some gimmicky gateway/stargate timing while you phase shift a roach warren or something. It doesn't seem such a bad unit, but i too wish we had an ability to reliably kill workers while not investing into something that's not our main army, like with a bio drop or speedling runby.
It has a range of 4. Vikings have a range of 9, and I believe a lot faster movement speed. The Tempest is going to be kited to death. Well unless it's accompanied by Phoenix. But I just don't see it being viable or useful anyway.
Personally the Oracle to me sounds like the only good unit (design wise) for Protoss in HotS. It feels like the only unit which should actually be worked on and improved to make it balance and viable.
The Replicant is gimmicky bullshit and I would have personally preferred an improved Carrier rather than the Tempest.
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The difference between the oracle for harass and phoenix as far as a safe option to harass early is that you need to buy 3-4 in order to start doing effective damage. It's the 450-600 mins and the 300-400 gas that makes you so vulnerable.After the initial investment only 150/200 in the oracle, with even just 1 it will do reasonable damage. If the terran has his forces at his base then you can phase his gas and slow him down in a critical way. If he doesn't have many units in his base you can hit the minerals and make him take a rather large hit to his economy. The terran can ignore the mineral block, suffering more mineral damage and attack you, which you should be prepared for, or he can take units back and that is its own victory. Either way your oracle is almost guaranteed to live and almost guaranteed to do at least some damage, something most other harass forms can't be so sure of.
Then, going into the mid game, the oracle has synergy with a lot of other options for protoss. When you get observers, you know when you can safely hit with the oracle. If you get more stargate units, it will protect them from static D when you go on raids, same applies to DTs. I'm not certain how the oracle will interact with bunkers, but if it stops units in bunkers from firing (like it should), then it's a useful support caster for pushing terran as well.
I think that stargate openings will not only be viable(safe), but very potent against terran. Arc shield in particular will make it viable. The options terran will have to punish you when you hit them with a fast Oracle, will be mostly marine and marauder based. If they push out at you with those units, you could use void rays to defend against marauders and arc shield to defend against marines. And other than the oracle I think more lategame stargate play will be incorporated against terran in HotS. Phoenix/Colossus has been used before with somewhat mixed results from what i have seen, but I think the tempest is a vital inclusion here. Phoenix/colossus pushes terran into a heavy viking play, this is good for protoss because phoenix beat vikings, the problem being that the vikings can snipe the colossus all down before dying, but with tempest the vikings will lose the air battle much faster. The tempest even in a smaller number have a lot more synergy with protoss stargate units than the carrier did.
Kcdc is of course a much better player than I am, but I just don't agree with some of his assessments. If you want to harass your opponent early then i feel stargate will be the way to go.
edit: the Tempest has an anti air range of 6
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The oracle looks great! It is not really noob friendly. that is why i might not use it. But i am really looking forward to see what pros can do with it. you can create your own timings by disabling structures.. and deny mining. its gonna be great. just a lot of nubs just feel dissapointed cuz it does not kill stuff.
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On November 02 2011 13:58 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 13:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
Without getting in to why I like the Oracle. Can I ask you something?
Why is the Dark Templar not included in your list of Protoss Harassment options? It should be. But it's pretty simple: DT's are good if your opponent isn't prepared. Otherwise, they're expensive archons. Either way, they're not consistent harass options because your opponent will certainly be prepared the second time.
So I get it right? You want a unit that pulls off harass successfully even if the opponent is prepared, that demands a response from the opponent that is out of the way of his usual combat tech and that is located conveniently in your tech path so you don't have to specifically invest in harassment? Oh.. and it should also have some utility in other roles...
Tell me one unit that fullfils those criteria...
I guess they placed it on the stargate in order to encourage more stargate play beyond the '1 VR and 2-4 pheonix' vs Zerg.
FYI:
Terran harassment isn't much better, when I 'analyze' it like you did:
Banshee - Huge investment in tech that must pay off. Paperplane that adds little to our combat force apart from very specific timings.
Hellions - Out of the way vs P, does not contribute to combat force, shut down by sim city, needs drops
Medivac/Bio drops - Big investment, reduces the forces you have at home for defense, if your opponent is prepared, you lose the drop.
Reapers - One dimensional, cost a ton of gas and take forever to build, easily shut down by warp in or speedlings
Damn.. terran harassment options suck hard... 
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On November 02 2011 15:24 Belha wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:55 kcdc wrote:
What Protoss needs is a land-based harassment unit that is available from the gateway or robotics facility and will have value in multiple dimensions of the game. We don't need another unit that encourages Zerg to take expansions or that leaves Protoss undefended against Terran and is shut down cold by vikings. I'd be thrilled if Protoss were given the hellion or reaper. But instead, Blizzard has offered us the phoenix 2.0. I think this is the most important aka resume all. Protoss need a new basic, non spellish, non gimmicky unit, prolly raiding unit. A few days ago WHITE-RA was asked in his stream about the patch, and i remember perfectly. He says: "Blizzard is adding too many spells units. Sc is not an rts/rpg game (i think he refer to wc3), sc is strategic game. Protoss need a good basic gateway unit, like "the terrans have mariners". I agree with both, kcdc, and white-ra.
Yeah, agreed. I've said this before when Blizzard hinted at a specialist raiding unit for Protoss - basically, that thus far specialist raiding units in this game tend to get nerfed while Zerg and Terran are best at harass based on good use of their core units who are also useful in other ways. Therefore, a good unit that fulfilled that role would also have to meet the same criteria. That said, the Oracle may still be a useful and valuable addition to the Protoss arsenal - although if it is as good as people seem to suggest, I fear it being hit hard with the nerf hammer. This also assumes that as the game develops around all of the new units, Protoss will have the time and resources to actually build these units and to successfully use them.
However, I still dislike the unit. It seems to me cutesy, gimmicky and very un-Protoss like. I thought as much when I first saw the new units and felt it showed that no-one on the Blizzard design team seemed to play or love Protoss. Protoss are (or really were) the tough bastards of the Koprulu Sector and units like this seem to run counter to that. Sorry for the design whine, but I love my race and like many players who do, tend to identify with my race a little. I've loved Protoss ever since I took my first steps on Aiur way back in SC1 and made my way to Antioch to reinforce Fenix. So, it hurts a little when I see units like the Oracle (and the Replicant). Still, I should probably 'grow up' and get over it or something.
Anyway, to be fair, all this is a year or more away. So, I hope I am proved wrong and good things come of this unit (and others).
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I don't really know what's so useless about it.
Take Zerg early game.
Maybe I got me 2 bases, a spawning pool, and a roach warren.
I drone drone drone while keeping an eye on the toss, generally trying to keep my units to a minimum
to be able to out-econ you.
Just as you push out, you send out 2 Oracles (which are fast as phoenixes) and phase shift my roach warren and
spawning pool. Voila - you have denied me ALL combat units for what, 45 seconds? Dunno the energy cost, but being fast as a phoenix, there is no way a queen will take it out before it does it again. I'd say this probably offsets the cost of the unit, big-time.
How is this useless?
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On November 02 2011 15:15 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 15:03 Techno wrote:On November 02 2011 13:58 kcdc wrote:On November 02 2011 13:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
Without getting in to why I like the Oracle. Can I ask you something?
Why is the Dark Templar not included in your list of Protoss Harassment options? It should be. But it's pretty simple: DT's are good if your opponent isn't prepared. Otherwise, they're expensive archons. Either way, they're not consistent harass options because your opponent will certainly be prepared the second time. Storm drops are pretty good too. Also, saying Terran always has vikings is annoying. Not everyone goes Colossus. Meh. Storm has been pretty bad since KA was removed. You don't see many PvT where P gets HT before colossi.
It's not that storm is bad, it is more that it has too long of a ramp up time and costs too much early on in the game. You are looking at a 1k+min/1k+gas investment which leaves you with 2/3 storms and a tiny gateway army the moment Storm. You have no map presence and forced into an extremely defensive and fragile position.
Storm is good, but not good enough to cope with such resource a deficit so early on in the game. It feels like you have to be better than your opponent to make it work as there is no way for you to prod your opponent but he complete freedom to move around the map and poke you at will
When KA was in the game it was a completely different story. You could be soo much more aggressive.
What I'd give to have KA back Too bad it was broken as hell :/
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I want to focus on this part of the OP, because I think kcdc has overlooked some very interesting possibilities the oravle offers.
On November 02 2011 12:55 kcdc wrote:
-Phoenix: The Phoenix is excellent for scouting and killing workers, but because they can't shoot ground, you need 4+ phoenixes to harass which is a massive investment for a unit that can't damage buildings and has very little defensive value. Zerg typically responds to phoenixes by expanding and droning even harder since Protoss has very little ground force. Phoenixes are almost never used as a harass option against Terran because they leave Protoss without sufficient defense.
-Void ray: Void rays are decent harassment tools against Zerg because Zerg has limited early anti-air capabilities. Making couple void rays allows Protoss to kill a few drones and overlords, and may do more significant damage if Zerg fails to respond properly. More importantly, the void rays provide excellent defensive value by shutting down early roach timing attacks, and if they survive, they retain their use into late game by killing corruptors and broodlords. Void rays are a multi-dimensional unit in PvZ, and because they allow economy raids while aiding defense and smoothing transitions, void ray openings are common against Zerg. Against Terran, void rays are sometimes used for early all-ins, but they have almost no combat value against marines, and are therefore rarely used beyond the early game against Terran.
On November 02 2011 12:55 kcdc wrote:
To summarize, stargate openings allow access to good scouting and economy raiding tools, but often leave Protoss without a strong enough army to defend or to punish extremely greedy play. Warp prisms can be efficiently incorporated into a build, but Protoss lacks units to drop that can actually kill workers, and because warp prisms are flying units, the height of their utility is short-lived against a Terran that wants to get vikings anyway.
Understanding the shortcomings of these raiding options, I was very excited to see what raiding tools Blizzard would offer Protoss in Heart of the Swarm. When I found out that it would likely be the oracle, I was disappointed on several levels.
Stargate openings are already amongst the the most popular PvZ openings, because they allow Protoss players to gain mapcontrol and get the occasional worker kill, besides forcing defenses (slowing down zerg) and a tech path zergs don't want to go (hydralisks) and sometimes just getting the Protoss ahead by denying a third base.
From a zerg players perspective (me), I would compare them to hellion openings from terran. They pin you in your base. They force tech reactions. They keep you in the dark.
Usually those openings look like: Get 1-2 void rays and 3-5phoenix. Fly to the zerg base, try to deny a third, kill queens and drones, once they are safe kill overlords. Then reatreat, maybe use your phoenix for scouting, but that's it.
Partly you also achieved that zerg can't go mutalisks anytime soon with this small phoenix fleet out on the field, so zerg can only go mutas if he can switch hardcore at once into them, which requires a real good economy and at least an even, or rather zergfavored army trade.
But all in all, these air units become worthless after the initial harass.
Now blizzard adds the oracle, that can be combined with these openings! You get 1voidray, 3phoenix, do the usual harass and add 1-2 oracles. What the oracle can do initially is:
phase out spores --> the harassment continues a little longer.
phase out the hydra den/nydus --> the blindcounter hydra/nydus, hydra drop can easily be prevented/delayed.
phase out the roach warren, pool, baneling nest --> expand again really early yourself
then, at the point when your air army usually becomes a glorified scouting tool:
reveal zergs production (don't know for sure how this spell works) --> don't get caught so easily by tech switches after/during an army trade
get that little bit of harass in by preventing/delaying mining with those highspeed oracles (no reason not to do it. there are hardly any risks included for the oracle, while zerg will just be missing 200-500minerals, with the currents oracle balancing, not to mention the multitasking and awareness a zerg needs, to kill those FFs fast when there is no alert!)
I think the real strength of the oracle lies in the amount of possibilities it offers. True that phasing out a building doesn't destroy it. True that preventing some minerals from being mined isn't a major problem for the zerg. But all those little things slow him down. All those little things are replenishable for no extra costs. And all those little things, lead to a better spread Protoss techwise.
F.e: How many times have you seen Protoss (who didn't open stargate) reacting to broodlords with mass blink stalkers and zerg just built more broodlords until broodlords just kill blink stalkers in direct engagements with no/little support? But if building oracles becomes a viable strategy, you will always have that startport to build void rays or phoenix vs broodlords.
(like terrans, that always have the factory, the starport and baracks against lategame zerg, because you need all techs to be able to react to all techs)
Furthermore I want to talk about this:
On November 02 2011 12:55 kcdc wrote:
What Protoss needs is a land-based harassment unit that is available from the gateway or robotics facility and will have value in multiple dimensions of the game. We don't need another unit that encourages Zerg to take expansions or that leaves Protoss undefended against Terran and is shut down cold by vikings. I'd be thrilled if Protoss were given the hellion or reaper. But instead, Blizzard has offered us the phoenix 2.0.
Protoss has a harass unit (DT) on the gateway and one at the robotics (Warp Prism). It's rather that due to warp gate rushes, and due to the overall greatness of robotics tech (best detector in the game, best artillery unit in the game, good vs armored/tanking unit), neither of those tech paths can really get a faster available harass unit.
4gate rush with mass reaper? We had that. It was called 6rax reaper and led to nerfing the reaper into oblivion. Now if you wanted to give Protoss a "reaper unit", available of the cybercore, the first thing to do would be to nerf it further, because it would mass spawn all around the opponents base (warp gate).
But not only that: Gateway is a complete tech path. It has tank units (archons, zealots), antiair units (stalkers), casters (sentry/templar), damage dealers (zealot, templar, archon), mineraldump units (zealot), harass units (stalker, dt). Baracks is not. (you need a starport for medivacs, vikings to deal with colossi; not to mention that pure baracks composition are not playable in lategame TvT and ZvT; gateway compositions are, at least with observer support), so you got yourself another nerf on your reaper unit.
Then there is the upgrade difference in Protoss and Terrans (Terrans have to focus on upgrades, Protoss get them for every unit), which makes gateway units easily combinable with robo tech. Your next nerf...
But I don't want to be completly unrealistic and say, that Protoss ground can't get another harass unit. But I don't think it could be any better in terms of harassment than a phoenix, rather worse.
(also for the robotech harassment: rush robo, build a warp prism and drop/warp in zealots. But this already seems unavailable as fast harass option, even with the warp prism being an air unit and this harass not costing any gas, so I guess any other robo harass unit couldn't hit earlier)
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the idea is "ok" for me, but what I dislike is that blizzard said that they already have units that kill worker fast, so they don't want to add anything else. Well, non of these units are protoss units ..
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But not only that: Gateway is a complete tech path. It has tank units (archons, zealots), antiair units (stalkers), casters (sentry/templar), damage dealers (zealot, templar, archon), mineraldump units (zealot), harass units (stalker, dt). Baracks is not.
As opposed to
Tank units (Marauders), antiair units (Marines, Ghosts), Casters (Ghosts), Damage Dealers (Marines,Marauders), mineral dump units (Marines), harass units (Marines, Marauders) ??
At least Protoss requires heavy investment into tech. Marines, Marauders and Ghosts are all available very early on in the game.
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On November 02 2011 12:55 kcdc wrote:
....Protoss presently lacks consistent economy harassment options.....
....The oracle builds from the stargate. Protoss already has solid harassment options that build from the stargate.
I'd agree with the second quote of you... Protoss has insanely good harrassment: Phoenix are not only fast, can kill overlords, give you a direct counter to Mutas, but in large numbers, they also totally destroy Hydras. Absolutely solid harrassment-Unit that can be mixed into almost any timing-attack/army-composition, at least in ZvP.
then they also have Blinkstalkers, VR's (yes, current 1-stargate-builds don't work that well anymore to snipe Zerg hatches, but there are still lots of options for the VR to be abused), warp-in's (yes, this can be used very well for harrassment), Warp-Prism, DT's, Storm-Drops and recall, which can be used both offensively or defensively. Protoss actually has incredible harrassment-options on basically all techpaths and I don't understand all the whining.
On November 02 2011 12:55 kcdc wrote:-The oracle can't shoot and is one-dimensional.
The Oracle is actually the most versatile Unit to be in SC2. If you still don't get that, even after I've postet like 5+ posts on the versatile usages of the Oracle, just go back and read in the oracle-related threads where you've also posted quite a bit.
On November 02 2011 12:55 kcdc wrote:The oracle, as prosposed at BlizzCon, is ridiculously expensive.
Even if this is true, there would be absolutely no Problem with that, cuz Blizzard could easily balance that aspect of the Unit. As of yet, it's only about the core principle of the Unit, everything else is futile to discuss now.
On November 02 2011 12:55 kcdc wrote:What Protoss needs is a land-based harassment unit that is available from the gateway or robotics facility and will have value in multiple dimensions of the game. We don't need another unit that encourages Zerg to take expansions or that leaves Protoss undefended against Terran and is shut down cold by vikings. I'd be thrilled if Protoss were given the hellion or reaper. But instead, Blizzard has offered us the phoenix 2.0.
Why does Protoss NEED that Unit? So that it has the exact same options as Terran? And if you say that your harrassment-Unit gets shut down by Vikings, how will Terran Drop you if you have phoenix around? Or why do you think Hellions is such a good harrassment-unit? Cuz they get dropped? Well, read one line above and counter the drop. Any other Hellion-harrass can be denied by building-placement and a few Units. I remember the good old SCBW-days, where ppl actually knew how to prevent Vultures from just cruising all around the map, but I guess ppl have forgotten about that...
And if you are sad about Zerg taking another expansion cuz of your phoenix-harrass, take one yourself or go for a timing-attack after heavily crippling his eco.
I'm almost 100% sure that no1 that understands MU's like ZvP and TvP will have the slightest doubt that the Oracle could be an extremely powerful Unit, even though it may not be the best harrassment-unit in terms of limiting the ressource-gathering.
IMHO, ppl focus too much on the entomb-ability, this one to me is basically a energy-sink if theres no real use for phase shift or at least VERY situational. The real star and the ability which opens up a vast amount of strategic options is phase-shift. Why do you need to kill the Zergs workers or deny hatches when you can prevent him from building ANY units for a huge amount of time? Or why would wou wan't like 1 Collossus more in battle, when you can prevent Zerg from reinforcing their army? Besides that, the oracle has amazing synergies with the ability for the toss for strong timing-attacks and with basically any unit the Protoss can produce, best example - DT's or Phoenix. Why another harrass-Unit when the oracle supports the other Options so well, its worth much more than a simple reaper/hellion-clone?
The Oracle is one of the most interesting, versatile and potentially skill-rewarding Units and anybody who doesn't get that, should just play Terran.... I'm actually thinking about switching to Toss, just because the Oracle looks to be so amazing to me.
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On November 02 2011 20:24 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +But not only that: Gateway is a complete tech path. It has tank units (archons, zealots), antiair units (stalkers), casters (sentry/templar), damage dealers (zealot, templar, archon), mineraldump units (zealot), harass units (stalker, dt). Baracks is not. As opposed to Tank units (Marauders), antiair units (Marines, Ghosts), Casters (Ghosts), Damage Dealers (Marines,Marauders), mineral dump units (Marines), harass units (Marines, Marauders) ??
Read the full comment. Also Marauders aren't tank units. They have 125life for 100/25 costs. Stimmed they have 105life.
Zealots have 150life, 50 in shields and cost 100 (also lesser passive costs, because they don't require tech labs).
Marauder are tank units with medivac support, which are no baracks unit. Also Marines and Marauders are no harass units. Marine/Marauder drops are, which again requires a Starport.
Good luck playing Marine/Marauder/Reaper/Ghost, without medivacs and vikings in any match up.
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On November 02 2011 20:35 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 20:24 Dommk wrote:But not only that: Gateway is a complete tech path. It has tank units (archons, zealots), antiair units (stalkers), casters (sentry/templar), damage dealers (zealot, templar, archon), mineraldump units (zealot), harass units (stalker, dt). Baracks is not. As opposed to Tank units (Marauders), antiair units (Marines, Ghosts), Casters (Ghosts), Damage Dealers (Marines,Marauders), mineral dump units (Marines), harass units (Marines, Marauders) ?? Read the full comment. Also Marauders aren't tank units. They have 125life for 100/25 costs. Stimmed they have 105life. Zealots have 150life, 50 in shields and cost 100 (also lesser passive costs, because they don't require tech labs). Marauder are tank units with medivac support, which are no baracks unit. Also Marines and Marauders are no harass units. Marine/Marauder drops are, which again requires a Starport. Good luck playing Marine/Marauder/Reaper/Ghost, without medivacs and vikings in any match up.
There are timings in TvP where you go for ghosts before startport
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Hi Kcdc. Its a pretty good post as your kind of known for with some logic behind.
Originally I had some of the same throughts as you, but lately I kinda changed my mind. The oracle in a vacuum is IMO a very funny unit to use. I had almost the time of my life using it together with warp prism in a pvz. A lot of multitasking is definitely required though and I would not suspect players below diamond to be very fond of it, however from a design perspective this isn't the biggest concern.
I do however agree that the introduction of the oracle and the tempest creates some problems with the protoss units as a whole, as each individual units need to have a certain role in the game. I do think the oracle has a clear role (used for mid/late game harass/scouting), but the phoenix on the other hand is kinda overshadowed in this way. Against mutalisk the tempest is better. Picking up siege tanks is not a good idea in HOTS as terrans almost always will have warhounds in their unit mix when going mech vs protoss. And while you to some extent probably still can open VR/phoenix for harass vs zerg, this role for the phoenix is imo just too specialised. It really needs to have a role in the later stages of the game. However for harassment in the midgame the oracle just seems like a better choice (obv. as you point out, since this unit cant be use in combat it has to be stronger when harassing than the phoenix is when harassing).
But the oracle it self (as I previously has stated) is just a really fun unit and isn't a problem in it self. I just feel like the protoss air units should be completely redesigned (esp. phoenix + tempest, vr is decent i think though its not that fun of a unit IMO) to make them work better with the protoss race.
Here is a suggestion that might make protoss air openings viable in most MU:
- Slight decrease of stargate cost.
- Lower the cost of phoenix.
- Increase the AA range of phoenix by 0.5 (to make it slightly easier to kite mutas), and balance other stats.
- Remove tempest. bring back carrier.
This way opening up phoenix for scouting + harass will be a cheaper option, and they will be better against mutas in the later stages of the game, though you still need a lot of micro to beat a huge group of mutas.
The role of the carrier should be an anti ground unit.
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On November 02 2011 20:35 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 20:24 Dommk wrote:But not only that: Gateway is a complete tech path. It has tank units (archons, zealots), antiair units (stalkers), casters (sentry/templar), damage dealers (zealot, templar, archon), mineraldump units (zealot), harass units (stalker, dt). Baracks is not. As opposed to Tank units (Marauders), antiair units (Marines, Ghosts), Casters (Ghosts), Damage Dealers (Marines,Marauders), mineral dump units (Marines), harass units (Marines, Marauders) ?? Read the full comment. Also Marauders aren't tank units. They have 125life for 100/25 costs. Stimmed they have 105life. Zealots have 150life, 50 in shields and cost 100 (also lesser passive costs, because they don't require tech labs). Marauder are tank units with medivac support, which are no baracks unit. Also Marines and Marauders are no harass units. Marine/Marauder drops are, which again requires a Starport.
I was hoping you would see how ignorant your argument is by by pointing out something in such a ridiculous fashion.
EDIT: I'm just going to make this simple.
Marines, Marauders, Stim, Combat Shield, Concussive Shell, Ghosts and Reapers are all T 1.5 Tech, but Templars, Archons, DT's, Blink and Charge are not. Terrans OFTEN tech safely to Starport tech on a SINGLE base where as Protoss can barely even tech to Templars on two.
Hell, by the time Protoss actually manages to get everything needed it is usually 20mins+ into the game on 3/4 bases.
Different races are different and you cannot simply compare something that comes out of a barracks to something that comes out of a Gateway because Protoss and Terran ARE NOT THE SAME
And when was the last time you have seen a Protoss win without Colossus? The unit is a necessity
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Reavers is what we need. They come from the robo, they're great harassers, they do have a role in any army, don't slow down the important robo tech like stargate does,... it would be perfect.
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people always forget about the stalker, the poor poor stalker. I generally find that the stalker is the best protoss harassing unit... hmm my weird oppinion  (playing super non-standard since 1995).
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I like the fact that if you have an oracle or two you can totally punish someone for moving out. Just imagine terran has sent all his units to your base, ready to reinforce, but your oracles would be all like: hell nooooo and can completely prohibit the terran from mining or producing anything at all.
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Pretty much, kcdc is right. Of course, it's very hard to read and understand a few paragraphs of text, judging by all the posters who managed to produce huge responses without addressing the main point at all. So allow me to make this short and simple for you guys.
Kcdc is not saying the Oracle is bad, or useless. Truthfully, it takes a lot of effort to design a completely useless unit. The Oracle does present some interesting options, and it will almost surely be used in its current incarnation. The point is, it is not what Protoss needs.
Some of you have posted stuff akin to "Well, if you phase out the Roach Warren/Pool as your timing attack hits, it's going to be so powerful!". Do you really think it's good for Protoss to have even more powerful timings? Is that a good thing for the race, and for the game? Think about it.
And others have suggested ways in which the Oracle synergises with other Protoss harassment options. Phasing out static defense to make way for Phoenix or DTs, and so forth. However, these are all distinctly late game options, because earlier on they will make you die to a counter attack. Protoss harassment is fine late game, it doesn't need another expensive paperweight to do cute stuff with.
In any case, if HotS is supposed to add units that shore up weaknesses of the races, then the Terran and Zerg units do make sense in this context. Terran units serve to make mech a viable playstyle in all matchups, for example by giving Hellions the option to act as proper meatshields for Tanks. Zerg units allow them to break entrenched positions more easily, and generally achieve pressure without sacrificing tons of units. In light of this, the new Protoss units are a total joke, they don't solve Protoss problems at all. Well, you can Replicate a Siege Tank and maybe defend 1/1/1, so that's nice I suppose. :/
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Well isn't the arc shield and recall supposed to help out with the lack of defensive for going air? I think you are right on some levels but I think a flying harassment unit is cool. If there was a cliff hopping raider unit from a robotics that didn't add to the death ball like a reaper does would be better, but think about arc shield as well.
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EPT
