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sharkie
Austria18573 Posts
On March 16 2024 00:22 Harris1st wrote: Inter tried to play football. The only thing Atletico does is try not to play football. I think there is a 0% chance that a final with Atletico in it will be good They can play some really good football when they are behind | ||
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gTank
Austria2601 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18573 Posts
We also have clubs like City and Liverpool breaking points records almost every 1-2 seasons... What does this mean for football? Has football become worse in the lower club levels? Good coaching in Stuttgart is destroying opposition in the Bundesliga. This squad is nothing special. Most players were rated crap before the season started. Leverkusen also doesnt have so many new players. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
i 100% enjoyed watching football more in the 2000s than i do now. now its a few teams that have really mastered the tactical game because they have individuals that still have good ability and a coach that is a cut above the rest, and a majority of teams that are all imposters trying to replicate the same thing with players or coaches that dont really know what theyre doing. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18205 Posts
On March 17 2024 22:20 evilfatsh1t wrote: id say footballers' ability has gotten worse overall for sure. its actually pretty well recognised already by many ex-players and coaches that the current "meta" in football is killing individual ability, because tactics and athletic ability have become so important in all tiers of football (including youth). the drop in individual ability is only being compensated for by the implementation of better tactics and structure within teams. i 100% enjoyed watching football more in the 2000s than i do now. now its a few teams that have really mastered the tactical game because they have individuals that still have good ability and a coach that is a cut above the rest, and a majority of teams that are all imposters trying to replicate the same thing with players or coaches that dont really know what theyre doing. This sounds like absolute drivel to me. Modern training routines and tactics no doubt step up the physical fitness of players as well as the need to play in a tactical mold. But it doesn't come at the cost of player abilities. In fact, I'd argue football quality has improved for the bottom table PL teams, but probably not as fast as the top of the table. I don't think a club like Southampton has regressed in quality over the last 20 years. Rather, a club like City or Liverpool has simply progressed more If this were also just down to a few coaches, you wouldn't see the same pattern in other leagues. PSV is tearing through the Eredivisie. You also wouldn't see mid tier teams like Stuttgart or even Leverkusen get those results. Stuttgart isn't an elite team by any metric, and by your hypothesis, should be "stuck" with subpar players and a subpar coach getting subpar results. As for retired players claiming the game was better in their day? No doubt. In my day everything was better too! Stop looking at the past through rose tinted goggles. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
but if you try to make the point that players individually are better now in terms of sheer playing ability, no way. the current generation doesnt even have a handful of players that i would compare to old greats like zidane, ronaldinho, r9 etc. players that made football more than just a sport; they made it art. the last of this kind of breed of players is guys like messi/neymar; players nearing retirement. the new gen not only cant play like the old greats, theyre actively discouraged from doing so. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28738 Posts
Difference between the very top and the mid table top flight teams increasing is a separate issue, probably more related to financing (and bosman?) and perhaps player mentalities shifting. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4238 Posts
But I believe evil's argument was more on the actual drible side of things. Do you recall from the top of your head of a young player who will 1v1 a defender consitently? By 1v1 i mean actually facing a defender, not just outrun them or outmuscle them. Probably there are still a few, but I reckon they are few and far between and with a tendency to disappear alltogher. However, even tho i agree with you guys, I dont agree that in young ronaldinho or messi days, everyone was just slower/etc. 25/30y ago maybe already yes, 15/20y I dont think so. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Dribbling is fun, whether to watch someone stick another pro on their arse, or mucking around in the playground, but it’s frequently not the effective play and I guess we just see that at the pro level. IIRC there’s fewer goals from range these days too and it’s not because players can’t hit a ball well. We may yet see a resurgence of the dribbler in a game of tighter space it is useful to be able to break those lines. As good as the all-conquering Spain side was they weren’t as lethal as the Barca side they largely played like because they didn’t have that X factor in Messi who could run past defenders like they weren’t there | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
On March 18 2024 01:26 WombaT wrote: It’s just coached out of players, they’re absolutely capable of it. Unless it’s an activity that sees a big participation decline, which certainly isn’t the case with football you generally don’t see collective expertise dropping. Dribbling is fun, whether to watch someone stick another pro on their arse, or mucking around in the playground, but it’s frequently not the effective play and I guess we just see that at the pro level. IIRC there’s fewer goals from range these days too and it’s not because players can’t hit a ball well. We may yet see a resurgence of the dribbler in a game of tighter space it is useful to be able to break those lines. As good as the all-conquering Spain side was they weren’t as lethal as the Barca side they largely played like because they didn’t have that X factor in Messi who could run past defenders like they weren’t there i guess well continue to see in future generations. at the moment im arguing that theyre not capable of it because its coached out of players. if you look at youth teams now theres a way bigger emphasis on positional play than in the past. when you coach it out of players from such a young age, effectively killing "street football", its not crazy to assume that youre going to see a lack of flair in the pro stage. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18573 Posts
And dont say top clubs, margin has become bigger from to bottom, etc... Liverpool have done it this season with a super young and inexperienced side. Stuttgart, Leverkusen in Germany. Liverpool in England. None have these bombastic super fancy squads where this argument would work. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8794 Posts
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LennX
4564 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
Just throwing flares at disabled people, like anyone would on a normal day. I wonder whose fault it is this time. | ||
GTR
51523 Posts
meanwhile in turkey | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28738 Posts
On March 18 2024 07:30 Jockmcplop wrote: Ahh Liverpool fans. Just throwing flares at disabled people, like anyone would on a normal day. I wonder whose fault it is this time. https://twitter.com/RICH__UTD/status/1769454612619436526 no need to go there, they're just united fans | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7046 Posts
On March 18 2024 02:53 sharkie wrote: Is it managers/coaches then? How is it possible that City and Liverpool can win so many games when teams in the past were not able to do so? And dont say top clubs, margin has become bigger from to bottom, etc... Liverpool have done it this season with a super young and inexperienced side. Stuttgart, Leverkusen in Germany. Liverpool in England. None have these bombastic super fancy squads where this argument would work. Team spirit and momentum do quite a lot of work. Add to that effective use of goal scoring chances and a spoon of luck and you've got yourself a miracle run. Remember Leicester season 15/16 On March 18 2024 01:26 WombaT wrote: IIRC there’s fewer goals from range these days too and it’s not because players can’t hit a ball well. This is a good point to see differences in fitness, physique and coaching. Goalies are soooooooo much better than 20+ years ago. Obviously there are still some blunders but the general level of goaltending has risen incredibly | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10283 Posts
On March 18 2024 07:30 Jockmcplop wrote: Ahh Liverpool fans. Just throwing flares at disabled people, like anyone would on a normal day. I wonder whose fault it is this time. https://twitter.com/RICH__UTD/status/1769454612619436526 You're actually just a trash human being for continuing this after I already called you out on it the first time. There is absolutely no need to go on insinuating Hillsborough shit for something like this. The guy was an idiot and deserves to be banned from all future events, but bringing up a tragedy just to attack a club/fans is horrible. The first time I thought maybe you were just ignorant of your language use but now I know you did it intentionally. Fuck off. --------- Klopp's worst management of a game this season, really sucks that we played so many first teamers against Sparta to have dead legs in ET. After our 3rd goal, hell even around 70 minutes we should've started to look to get fresh legs on and close out the game. Instead we left Endo and Macca on for far too long and lost control. Lucky goal from Elliott which again, should've signaled Klopp to get the kids on to finish the game. Unsure why he subbed Salah and Szobo off so early, they looked fine and weren't losing pace, could be a management thing because they returned from injury recently but didn't take off Nunez... Credit to United and Ten Hag, who made very impactful substitutions and United played to win the game. Luckily for us, probably the best game to lose for us since it's not a Prem game and I would prefer winning the Europa over the FA Cup this season just so Klopp can win it once. | ||
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