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On June 13 2022 18:45 Bacillus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 18:10 RKC wrote:On June 13 2022 17:50 Bacillus wrote:
I think I've seen some talk about how Belgium reworked their youth development and it resulted as the current goldenish generation they've got. I think the main idea was to almost divide players into two or more categories and focus on their strengths in those. As a really blunt simplification one group produced players like De Bruyne while other tried to create players more like Lukaku.
I'm not sure about the finer details and how dramatic the division was and all that, but I still find it interesting as it apparently coincided with the development of the golden generation. I guess we are about to see if their system has long term merit in it. Also, I've read articles how the Nordic countries are undergoing some revolution of their own (like Iceland). Maybe you or Drone can shed some light on this? I haven't heard of any major changes in player development itself in Finland. Maybe there has been some internal changes, but I don't think it's any widely talked about subject. For Finns it has been more about a recovery after long slump under various coaches and quite a bit of negative football. We had a golden generation of Hyypiä, Jääskeläinen and Litmanen in the late 90s and 2000s that constantly flirted with qualification to big tournaments but never quite got there. I think the closest run ended up with us conceding a decisive goal against Hungary somewhere in the 95th minute, the ball bouncing off from some 4 Finns before ending up in the own goal. After the golden generation, managers came in, produced terrible results and got sacked and nothing changed for a long while. Things were really bad somewhere around 2015 with really negative football, zero creativity and lots of underwhelming 0-1 and 0-2 defeats. Spirits we at all time low. Then they hired Markku Kanerva, who had been a long time interim manager and assistant in the NT and everything clicked somehow. Suddenly the team played extremely well together and there was even some flair visible, which is very foreign thing for Finnish football. There was suddenly interest in football again and then we got a decent group draw for the Euro qualifier and rode it to first ever succesful qualification run. It's been sort of a honeymoon after that long drawn slump. There are also likable player personalities in the team and the team spirit seems great. So, I don't think there was any well documented structural changes or so, but the turnaround and excitement of Euro qualification has created loads of good buzz in Finnish football. I think the honeymoon phase is now starting to be over, but it's still really good and positive vibe around the NT. Edit: The famous Finland - Hungary catastrophe seen here at 45 seconds: + Show Spoiler +
I'm a fan of all three players, and also Mikael Forssell. Such a shame the Finnish golden generation never graced the WC or Euro!
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Norway28731 Posts
On June 13 2022 19:30 RKC wrote:
Thanks for all the sharing! I'm generally fascinated with Nordic culture as a whole. Finland's unorthodox educational system has been talked up as the way forward for nurturing kids. Norway produces geniuses like Carlsen for chess and Haaland for football.
Maybe there's something ingrained in the culture of your countries that grooms talents in all fields? Of course, being economically and politically stable helps. But it's still a rarity for small developed countries to produce sporting talents of high pedigree.
I think this article gives a pretty solid rundown of our mentality.
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On June 13 2022 20:30 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 19:30 RKC wrote:
Thanks for all the sharing! I'm generally fascinated with Nordic culture as a whole. Finland's unorthodox educational system has been talked up as the way forward for nurturing kids. Norway produces geniuses like Carlsen for chess and Haaland for football.
Maybe there's something ingrained in the culture of your countries that grooms talents in all fields? Of course, being economically and politically stable helps. But it's still a rarity for small developed countries to produce sporting talents of high pedigree. I think this article gives a pretty solid rundown of our mentality.
It starts with a radically different approach to sports that’s based on a concept known as the “Joy of Sport for All.” While Canadians and Americans stream kids who display potential into elite teams at an early age, Norway keeps the focus on participation.
Children are encouraged to play as many sports as possible, and costs are kept low for parents. Clubs aren’t allowed to keep league standings or even record game scores for children under 13, and there are no individual rankings, travelling teams or national championships for that age group. It’s all covered in Norway’s “Children’s Rights in Sport,” a 12-page document that says “children should receive a positive experience every time they participate in sport.”
I stopped reading here because I 100% agree with this mentality and can see how this shapes better human beings (and also athletes!)
Let kids be kids!!
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On June 13 2022 17:18 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 14:53 RvB wrote:On June 12 2022 23:28 RKC wrote:On June 12 2022 22:14 Mafe wrote:On June 12 2022 15:59 RKC wrote:
The last two Nations League final rounds (semi and final) have been rather underwhelming.
Rivalries are built over regular clashes, just like derbies for club football. I have friends in Asia telling me how regional competitions (Gulf and ASEAN) are really hyped even though the quality isn't top draw. Winning regionals mean a lot to fans who are resigned to not seeing their countries making it to the World Cup or going very far even in continental cups. Maybe these smaller competitions are what keeps the confederation and competitive scene alive in weaker regions in the world.
Of course, competitiveness ain't a problem for resource rich Europe. But it's nice to have more equality and diversity. I miss the 90s era of the likes of Romania, Bulgaria, Sweden, Denmark and Croatia tearing it in the World Cup and producing world class footballers. Maybe it's just me being blinded by nostalgia and recency bias, but football just seems too top-heavy these days. Upsets only happen because top teams dramatically collapse (Netherlands and Italy) or the underdog just fluke out a miracle run playing park-the-bus anti-football (sorry, but really have to call out Greece on this one, that Euro really turned off a lot of my friends who are casual football fans). Yes but imho the "top" now also contains more teams than it did in the 90s. Back then, I would have considered the following teams among the top: Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, England, France, the Netherlands, and maybe Spain. In the 90s, as an underdog beating just one of these big nations could often be enough to get you into the semifinal of a big tournament (Sweden in 94 didn even beat a single one). Today, it's all of the above, but they have been joined by Portugal, Belgium, and maybe Uruguay. this means that a) there are fewer places (in the knockoutstages) available for non-top teams, and b) those non-top teams would now more likely have to beat two top teams to make it to the semis. Portugal and Belgium were always brimming with talent. Same as Spain. They just recently overcome their 'choker' mental block in big tourneys (except for Belgium perhaps). I was a big fan of Spain even in the 90s (Raul, Hierro, etc) and early 2000. Simply heartbreaking to support them in those days. Uruguay is an enigma. They have a rich history in football, winning an early WC. Then they just dropped off the cliff in the 80s-90s. Colombia was the rage in those days (Valderama!). Anyway, I'm quite excited to catch Norway v Sweden later today. Should be a cracker. Both teams with a promising new generation of stars. Belgium wasn't always brimming with talent. They had a whole period where they didn't qualify for big tournaments. This last generation is quite exceptional for them and you can see that they're already having large issues to replace some of the key players who quit. Yes, Belgium slumped into the dark ages for about a decade after the golden Scifo-Wilmots era. This will probably get me a lot of heat from Dutch fans, but I see a lot of similarities between both countries in the modern era. Netherlands has the slight edge in terms of achievements, of course (and few countries have revolutionised the game like the Dutch have with total football). But both teams are still struggling to shake their "nearly men" status despite their skill and brilliance. Right now, Netherlands seem to be still stuck in a semi slump with the new generation like De Jong still struggling to make a mark at the international level. As much as I want to see Belgium finally winning a WC or Euro, sadly I think the ship has already sailed for this current golden generation. Martinez is the wrong guy imo. They should've put aside patriotic pride and gone for a top class foreign coach... maybe even someone like LVG lol!
Kind of. We struggled earlier because we were between two good generations of players. Our team is good now (our defense is crazy stacked right now) but especially the last euro we had a bad coach. The KNVB only wants Dutch coaches as well so we were stuck with Frank de Boer. We did much better with a decent coach (Koeman) before that and a good coach now (LVG). Depending on our opponents we should definitely get a good result at the world cup.
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On June 13 2022 20:30 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 19:30 RKC wrote:
Thanks for all the sharing! I'm generally fascinated with Nordic culture as a whole. Finland's unorthodox educational system has been talked up as the way forward for nurturing kids. Norway produces geniuses like Carlsen for chess and Haaland for football.
Maybe there's something ingrained in the culture of your countries that grooms talents in all fields? Of course, being economically and politically stable helps. But it's still a rarity for small developed countries to produce sporting talents of high pedigree. I think this article gives a pretty solid rundown of our mentality.
Wow, such a great read! Norway's Winter Olympics results is just insane for a small population. And I had no idea who Casper Ruud was until this year's French Open (granted he had quite easy bracket run).
Carlsen plays a lot of football in his free time. He's a RM fan. And apparently he tops the fantasy football league between the chess pros. One would think that a chess world champion has to be super geek with no other interests in life. That he breaks the mould of a typical chess player perhaps is what makes him so special and almost GOAT-like (next to Kasparov).
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On June 13 2022 21:06 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 17:18 RKC wrote:On June 13 2022 14:53 RvB wrote:On June 12 2022 23:28 RKC wrote:On June 12 2022 22:14 Mafe wrote:On June 12 2022 15:59 RKC wrote:
The last two Nations League final rounds (semi and final) have been rather underwhelming.
Rivalries are built over regular clashes, just like derbies for club football. I have friends in Asia telling me how regional competitions (Gulf and ASEAN) are really hyped even though the quality isn't top draw. Winning regionals mean a lot to fans who are resigned to not seeing their countries making it to the World Cup or going very far even in continental cups. Maybe these smaller competitions are what keeps the confederation and competitive scene alive in weaker regions in the world.
Of course, competitiveness ain't a problem for resource rich Europe. But it's nice to have more equality and diversity. I miss the 90s era of the likes of Romania, Bulgaria, Sweden, Denmark and Croatia tearing it in the World Cup and producing world class footballers. Maybe it's just me being blinded by nostalgia and recency bias, but football just seems too top-heavy these days. Upsets only happen because top teams dramatically collapse (Netherlands and Italy) or the underdog just fluke out a miracle run playing park-the-bus anti-football (sorry, but really have to call out Greece on this one, that Euro really turned off a lot of my friends who are casual football fans). Yes but imho the "top" now also contains more teams than it did in the 90s. Back then, I would have considered the following teams among the top: Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, England, France, the Netherlands, and maybe Spain. In the 90s, as an underdog beating just one of these big nations could often be enough to get you into the semifinal of a big tournament (Sweden in 94 didn even beat a single one). Today, it's all of the above, but they have been joined by Portugal, Belgium, and maybe Uruguay. this means that a) there are fewer places (in the knockoutstages) available for non-top teams, and b) those non-top teams would now more likely have to beat two top teams to make it to the semis. Portugal and Belgium were always brimming with talent. Same as Spain. They just recently overcome their 'choker' mental block in big tourneys (except for Belgium perhaps). I was a big fan of Spain even in the 90s (Raul, Hierro, etc) and early 2000. Simply heartbreaking to support them in those days. Uruguay is an enigma. They have a rich history in football, winning an early WC. Then they just dropped off the cliff in the 80s-90s. Colombia was the rage in those days (Valderama!). Anyway, I'm quite excited to catch Norway v Sweden later today. Should be a cracker. Both teams with a promising new generation of stars. Belgium wasn't always brimming with talent. They had a whole period where they didn't qualify for big tournaments. This last generation is quite exceptional for them and you can see that they're already having large issues to replace some of the key players who quit. Yes, Belgium slumped into the dark ages for about a decade after the golden Scifo-Wilmots era. This will probably get me a lot of heat from Dutch fans, but I see a lot of similarities between both countries in the modern era. Netherlands has the slight edge in terms of achievements, of course (and few countries have revolutionised the game like the Dutch have with total football). But both teams are still struggling to shake their "nearly men" status despite their skill and brilliance. Right now, Netherlands seem to be still stuck in a semi slump with the new generation like De Jong still struggling to make a mark at the international level. As much as I want to see Belgium finally winning a WC or Euro, sadly I think the ship has already sailed for this current golden generation. Martinez is the wrong guy imo. They should've put aside patriotic pride and gone for a top class foreign coach... maybe even someone like LVG lol! Kind of. We struggled earlier because we were between two good generations of players. Our team is good now (our defense is crazy stacked right now) but especially the last euro we had a bad coach. The KNVB only wants Dutch coaches as well so we were stuck with Frank de Boer. We did much better with a decent coach (Koeman) before that and a good coach now (LVG). Depending on our opponents we should definitely get a good result at the world cup.
I'm sure Netherlands is not short of top coaches. There's LVG and ten Hag. Was appointing former superstars with little coaching experience like van Basten and de Boer a mistake, you think? Koeman is a questionable choice too, with mediocre results at club level.
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On June 13 2022 17:18 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 14:53 RvB wrote:On June 12 2022 23:28 RKC wrote:On June 12 2022 22:14 Mafe wrote:On June 12 2022 15:59 RKC wrote:
The last two Nations League final rounds (semi and final) have been rather underwhelming.
Rivalries are built over regular clashes, just like derbies for club football. I have friends in Asia telling me how regional competitions (Gulf and ASEAN) are really hyped even though the quality isn't top draw. Winning regionals mean a lot to fans who are resigned to not seeing their countries making it to the World Cup or going very far even in continental cups. Maybe these smaller competitions are what keeps the confederation and competitive scene alive in weaker regions in the world.
Of course, competitiveness ain't a problem for resource rich Europe. But it's nice to have more equality and diversity. I miss the 90s era of the likes of Romania, Bulgaria, Sweden, Denmark and Croatia tearing it in the World Cup and producing world class footballers. Maybe it's just me being blinded by nostalgia and recency bias, but football just seems too top-heavy these days. Upsets only happen because top teams dramatically collapse (Netherlands and Italy) or the underdog just fluke out a miracle run playing park-the-bus anti-football (sorry, but really have to call out Greece on this one, that Euro really turned off a lot of my friends who are casual football fans). Yes but imho the "top" now also contains more teams than it did in the 90s. Back then, I would have considered the following teams among the top: Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, England, France, the Netherlands, and maybe Spain. In the 90s, as an underdog beating just one of these big nations could often be enough to get you into the semifinal of a big tournament (Sweden in 94 didn even beat a single one). Today, it's all of the above, but they have been joined by Portugal, Belgium, and maybe Uruguay. this means that a) there are fewer places (in the knockoutstages) available for non-top teams, and b) those non-top teams would now more likely have to beat two top teams to make it to the semis. Portugal and Belgium were always brimming with talent. Same as Spain. They just recently overcome their 'choker' mental block in big tourneys (except for Belgium perhaps). I was a big fan of Spain even in the 90s (Raul, Hierro, etc) and early 2000. Simply heartbreaking to support them in those days. Uruguay is an enigma. They have a rich history in football, winning an early WC. Then they just dropped off the cliff in the 80s-90s. Colombia was the rage in those days (Valderama!). Anyway, I'm quite excited to catch Norway v Sweden later today. Should be a cracker. Both teams with a promising new generation of stars. Belgium wasn't always brimming with talent. They had a whole period where they didn't qualify for big tournaments. This last generation is quite exceptional for them and you can see that they're already having large issues to replace some of the key players who quit. Yes, Belgium slumped into the dark ages for about a decade after the golden Scifo-Wilmots era. This will probably get me a lot of heat from Dutch fans, but I see a lot of similarities between both countries in the modern era. Netherlands has the slight edge in terms of achievements, of course (and few countries have revolutionised the game like the Dutch have with total football). But both teams are still struggling to shake their "nearly men" status despite their skill and brilliance. Right now, Netherlands seem to be still stuck in a semi slump with the new generation like De Jong still struggling to make a mark at the international level. As much as I want to see Belgium finally winning a WC or Euro, sadly I think the ship has already sailed for this current golden generation. Martinez is the wrong guy imo. They should've put aside patriotic pride and gone for a top class foreign coach... maybe even someone like LVG lol!
No heat from me, I agree entirely. For countries like NL, Portugal, and even more so for Belgium or say, Croatia, it's rare to have 11 top players in all positions. And much, much more rare to have a full squad at top level. The difference between these and the top5 countries is just the depth the latter have all the time, because of sheer size. When you look at Germany, if one world class player retires, there are always others to take their place while we have to resort to players from the (lesser clubs in the) Eredivisie. edit: Haha and no, I didn't read Drone's reply before I posted.
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On June 13 2022 21:19 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 21:06 RvB wrote:On June 13 2022 17:18 RKC wrote:On June 13 2022 14:53 RvB wrote:On June 12 2022 23:28 RKC wrote:On June 12 2022 22:14 Mafe wrote:On June 12 2022 15:59 RKC wrote:
The last two Nations League final rounds (semi and final) have been rather underwhelming.
Rivalries are built over regular clashes, just like derbies for club football. I have friends in Asia telling me how regional competitions (Gulf and ASEAN) are really hyped even though the quality isn't top draw. Winning regionals mean a lot to fans who are resigned to not seeing their countries making it to the World Cup or going very far even in continental cups. Maybe these smaller competitions are what keeps the confederation and competitive scene alive in weaker regions in the world.
Of course, competitiveness ain't a problem for resource rich Europe. But it's nice to have more equality and diversity. I miss the 90s era of the likes of Romania, Bulgaria, Sweden, Denmark and Croatia tearing it in the World Cup and producing world class footballers. Maybe it's just me being blinded by nostalgia and recency bias, but football just seems too top-heavy these days. Upsets only happen because top teams dramatically collapse (Netherlands and Italy) or the underdog just fluke out a miracle run playing park-the-bus anti-football (sorry, but really have to call out Greece on this one, that Euro really turned off a lot of my friends who are casual football fans). Yes but imho the "top" now also contains more teams than it did in the 90s. Back then, I would have considered the following teams among the top: Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, England, France, the Netherlands, and maybe Spain. In the 90s, as an underdog beating just one of these big nations could often be enough to get you into the semifinal of a big tournament (Sweden in 94 didn even beat a single one). Today, it's all of the above, but they have been joined by Portugal, Belgium, and maybe Uruguay. this means that a) there are fewer places (in the knockoutstages) available for non-top teams, and b) those non-top teams would now more likely have to beat two top teams to make it to the semis. Portugal and Belgium were always brimming with talent. Same as Spain. They just recently overcome their 'choker' mental block in big tourneys (except for Belgium perhaps). I was a big fan of Spain even in the 90s (Raul, Hierro, etc) and early 2000. Simply heartbreaking to support them in those days. Uruguay is an enigma. They have a rich history in football, winning an early WC. Then they just dropped off the cliff in the 80s-90s. Colombia was the rage in those days (Valderama!). Anyway, I'm quite excited to catch Norway v Sweden later today. Should be a cracker. Both teams with a promising new generation of stars. Belgium wasn't always brimming with talent. They had a whole period where they didn't qualify for big tournaments. This last generation is quite exceptional for them and you can see that they're already having large issues to replace some of the key players who quit. Yes, Belgium slumped into the dark ages for about a decade after the golden Scifo-Wilmots era. This will probably get me a lot of heat from Dutch fans, but I see a lot of similarities between both countries in the modern era. Netherlands has the slight edge in terms of achievements, of course (and few countries have revolutionised the game like the Dutch have with total football). But both teams are still struggling to shake their "nearly men" status despite their skill and brilliance. Right now, Netherlands seem to be still stuck in a semi slump with the new generation like De Jong still struggling to make a mark at the international level. As much as I want to see Belgium finally winning a WC or Euro, sadly I think the ship has already sailed for this current golden generation. Martinez is the wrong guy imo. They should've put aside patriotic pride and gone for a top class foreign coach... maybe even someone like LVG lol! Kind of. We struggled earlier because we were between two good generations of players. Our team is good now (our defense is crazy stacked right now) but especially the last euro we had a bad coach. The KNVB only wants Dutch coaches as well so we were stuck with Frank de Boer. We did much better with a decent coach (Koeman) before that and a good coach now (LVG). Depending on our opponents we should definitely get a good result at the world cup. I'm sure Netherlands is not short of top coaches. There's LVG and ten Hag. Was appointing former superstars with little coaching experience like van Basten and de Boer a mistake, you think? Koeman is a questionable choice too, with mediocre results at club level.
Hiddink was wayyyyyy past his prime on his last stint. LVG also basically came out of retirement for this gig. Frank de Boer had pretty good results with Ajax, but bombed out abroad. It wasn't too crazy a thought that he might do well with the Dutch national team, but he was a bit of a desperation choice, because there really wasn't anybody willing to take the job. Koeman is fine, imho. But even there you saw that he didn't complete his gig, because Barça came knocking. Now he's back, but only because he Ten Hag may be enticed at some point in the future, but right now he's a hot commodity at a club level, and there's just no way the KNVB can compete in either salary or other conditions with even Ajax, let alone ManU or whoever else wants the best Dutch coaches. Even someone like v. Bronckhorst is out of reach, who did well with Feyenoord and has done quite well with the Rangers.
I fully expect Cocu to be picked up at some point, or v. Bommel. Maybe his father-in-law v. Marwijk can come back to bail him out or something... 
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Dumb question, but how is this fair?
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What do you mean? You mean towards smaller teams? Why does it matter? Just means they face, on average, tougher games in the weeks leading up to the WC, and have, on average, somewhat easier games the rest of the season. At the end of the day, they still have to play all the matches in the context of the Premier League.
Anyway, just seems advantageous: playing a big 6 team after the WC, when half their players have been to Qatar playing in different teams in a different system and are now considerably more tired than your own well-rested players seems easier than playing them in the lead-up to the world cup.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
It seems sensible to me to have some joined-up thinking. Other nations could also benefit anyway as lots of their rosters are in those said teams.
If they did do this, it’s not like the big sides would benefit in the Prem, they’re just going to have more of these top table clashes in the second half of the season, when the Champion’s League hits its business end.
I’d love to see a World Cup where the players are fit and firing, it could be one side benefit of being placed in the middle of the season where players are fully up to speed without being too tired, so not ramming too much in before the WC window might help.
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There was some discussion about this as well when Ajax had a couple Eredivisie matches moved when they were still active in the Champs League. But as it is in the best interest of the nation's results, don't see why the PL would have big objections, if all it takes is moving a couple matches around. You could argue smaller teams now have a better chance of upsetting against the top6 around international matches? Who is complaining, really?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Doesn't it call into question the integrity of the "randomised" fixture list they produce every season? Or would they allow that and then just post pone big 6 games before the world cup and move them to after?
Surely as well the clubs won't like this lol. Big risk of your players coming back injured after an intense world cup in a very hot country?
When do you count as build up as well? 2 weeks before? 3 weeks? 4 weeks?
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Australia trying to pull Tim Krul 2.0 out of the hat against Peru^^
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Seems more of a PR stint to show that club and country has reached to a nice compromise. Don't see much tangible benefit.
Injuries before big tourneys happen because of freak accidents (slipping on soap in bathroom always seemed like a cover up to some bedroom activity gone wrong lol). I would think that there's a higher risk of mediocre players from mediocre teams harming super stars (Shawcross tackle on Ramsey).
And there's an equal chance of players being distracted and exhausted before and after the WC.
Anyway, big clashes happen before every summer WC all the time (CL final, FA Cup, intense title, CL qualifier and relegation deciders). So what's so special about winter?
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51509 Posts
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On June 13 2022 21:19 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 21:06 RvB wrote:On June 13 2022 17:18 RKC wrote:On June 13 2022 14:53 RvB wrote:On June 12 2022 23:28 RKC wrote:On June 12 2022 22:14 Mafe wrote:On June 12 2022 15:59 RKC wrote:
The last two Nations League final rounds (semi and final) have been rather underwhelming.
Rivalries are built over regular clashes, just like derbies for club football. I have friends in Asia telling me how regional competitions (Gulf and ASEAN) are really hyped even though the quality isn't top draw. Winning regionals mean a lot to fans who are resigned to not seeing their countries making it to the World Cup or going very far even in continental cups. Maybe these smaller competitions are what keeps the confederation and competitive scene alive in weaker regions in the world.
Of course, competitiveness ain't a problem for resource rich Europe. But it's nice to have more equality and diversity. I miss the 90s era of the likes of Romania, Bulgaria, Sweden, Denmark and Croatia tearing it in the World Cup and producing world class footballers. Maybe it's just me being blinded by nostalgia and recency bias, but football just seems too top-heavy these days. Upsets only happen because top teams dramatically collapse (Netherlands and Italy) or the underdog just fluke out a miracle run playing park-the-bus anti-football (sorry, but really have to call out Greece on this one, that Euro really turned off a lot of my friends who are casual football fans). Yes but imho the "top" now also contains more teams than it did in the 90s. Back then, I would have considered the following teams among the top: Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, England, France, the Netherlands, and maybe Spain. In the 90s, as an underdog beating just one of these big nations could often be enough to get you into the semifinal of a big tournament (Sweden in 94 didn even beat a single one). Today, it's all of the above, but they have been joined by Portugal, Belgium, and maybe Uruguay. this means that a) there are fewer places (in the knockoutstages) available for non-top teams, and b) those non-top teams would now more likely have to beat two top teams to make it to the semis. Portugal and Belgium were always brimming with talent. Same as Spain. They just recently overcome their 'choker' mental block in big tourneys (except for Belgium perhaps). I was a big fan of Spain even in the 90s (Raul, Hierro, etc) and early 2000. Simply heartbreaking to support them in those days. Uruguay is an enigma. They have a rich history in football, winning an early WC. Then they just dropped off the cliff in the 80s-90s. Colombia was the rage in those days (Valderama!). Anyway, I'm quite excited to catch Norway v Sweden later today. Should be a cracker. Both teams with a promising new generation of stars. Belgium wasn't always brimming with talent. They had a whole period where they didn't qualify for big tournaments. This last generation is quite exceptional for them and you can see that they're already having large issues to replace some of the key players who quit. Yes, Belgium slumped into the dark ages for about a decade after the golden Scifo-Wilmots era. This will probably get me a lot of heat from Dutch fans, but I see a lot of similarities between both countries in the modern era. Netherlands has the slight edge in terms of achievements, of course (and few countries have revolutionised the game like the Dutch have with total football). But both teams are still struggling to shake their "nearly men" status despite their skill and brilliance. Right now, Netherlands seem to be still stuck in a semi slump with the new generation like De Jong still struggling to make a mark at the international level. As much as I want to see Belgium finally winning a WC or Euro, sadly I think the ship has already sailed for this current golden generation. Martinez is the wrong guy imo. They should've put aside patriotic pride and gone for a top class foreign coach... maybe even someone like LVG lol! Kind of. We struggled earlier because we were between two good generations of players. Our team is good now (our defense is crazy stacked right now) but especially the last euro we had a bad coach. The KNVB only wants Dutch coaches as well so we were stuck with Frank de Boer. We did much better with a decent coach (Koeman) before that and a good coach now (LVG). Depending on our opponents we should definitely get a good result at the world cup. I'm sure Netherlands is not short of top coaches. There's LVG and ten Hag. Was appointing former superstars with little coaching experience like van Basten and de Boer a mistake, you think? Koeman is a questionable choice too, with mediocre results at club level.
It's like Acro said. All the good coaches we had are retired (LVG, Hiddink, Advocaat, Van Marwijk). Ten Hag is good but didn't prove himself at any top club except Ajax. Koeman is a mixed bag at the club level but did well at the national team so I'm pretty sure he'll succeed LVG. But after that there are no good alternatives. Cocu and Van Bommel aren't very impressive, Bosz plays attractive football but always loses, and Van Bronckhorst is doing well but needs more experience imo.
I think appointing former stars with little coaching experience doesn't make a lot of sense but I don't think it had that much effect on our results. Van Basten did decent and the problem with Frank de Boer is that he's a bad coach who failed everywhere except Ajax. The only other coach with little experience was Danny Blind and he's been aweful as a coach everywhere as well.
In my view the real problem is that we're not willing to look at alternatives outside of The Netherlands and as a consequence we're fishing out of a very shallow pond of talent. I understand the preference for a Dutch coach but sometimes it's just not possible.
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world cup would have started this week under normal circumstances 
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On June 14 2022 19:49 sharkie wrote:world cup would have started this week under normal circumstances
I guess we'll all have to wait a bit longer for it to come home
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On June 14 2022 19:18 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2022 21:19 RKC wrote:On June 13 2022 21:06 RvB wrote:On June 13 2022 17:18 RKC wrote:On June 13 2022 14:53 RvB wrote:On June 12 2022 23:28 RKC wrote:On June 12 2022 22:14 Mafe wrote:On June 12 2022 15:59 RKC wrote:
The last two Nations League final rounds (semi and final) have been rather underwhelming.
Rivalries are built over regular clashes, just like derbies for club football. I have friends in Asia telling me how regional competitions (Gulf and ASEAN) are really hyped even though the quality isn't top draw. Winning regionals mean a lot to fans who are resigned to not seeing their countries making it to the World Cup or going very far even in continental cups. Maybe these smaller competitions are what keeps the confederation and competitive scene alive in weaker regions in the world.
Of course, competitiveness ain't a problem for resource rich Europe. But it's nice to have more equality and diversity. I miss the 90s era of the likes of Romania, Bulgaria, Sweden, Denmark and Croatia tearing it in the World Cup and producing world class footballers. Maybe it's just me being blinded by nostalgia and recency bias, but football just seems too top-heavy these days. Upsets only happen because top teams dramatically collapse (Netherlands and Italy) or the underdog just fluke out a miracle run playing park-the-bus anti-football (sorry, but really have to call out Greece on this one, that Euro really turned off a lot of my friends who are casual football fans). Yes but imho the "top" now also contains more teams than it did in the 90s. Back then, I would have considered the following teams among the top: Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, England, France, the Netherlands, and maybe Spain. In the 90s, as an underdog beating just one of these big nations could often be enough to get you into the semifinal of a big tournament (Sweden in 94 didn even beat a single one). Today, it's all of the above, but they have been joined by Portugal, Belgium, and maybe Uruguay. this means that a) there are fewer places (in the knockoutstages) available for non-top teams, and b) those non-top teams would now more likely have to beat two top teams to make it to the semis. Portugal and Belgium were always brimming with talent. Same as Spain. They just recently overcome their 'choker' mental block in big tourneys (except for Belgium perhaps). I was a big fan of Spain even in the 90s (Raul, Hierro, etc) and early 2000. Simply heartbreaking to support them in those days. Uruguay is an enigma. They have a rich history in football, winning an early WC. Then they just dropped off the cliff in the 80s-90s. Colombia was the rage in those days (Valderama!). Anyway, I'm quite excited to catch Norway v Sweden later today. Should be a cracker. Both teams with a promising new generation of stars. Belgium wasn't always brimming with talent. They had a whole period where they didn't qualify for big tournaments. This last generation is quite exceptional for them and you can see that they're already having large issues to replace some of the key players who quit. Yes, Belgium slumped into the dark ages for about a decade after the golden Scifo-Wilmots era. This will probably get me a lot of heat from Dutch fans, but I see a lot of similarities between both countries in the modern era. Netherlands has the slight edge in terms of achievements, of course (and few countries have revolutionised the game like the Dutch have with total football). But both teams are still struggling to shake their "nearly men" status despite their skill and brilliance. Right now, Netherlands seem to be still stuck in a semi slump with the new generation like De Jong still struggling to make a mark at the international level. As much as I want to see Belgium finally winning a WC or Euro, sadly I think the ship has already sailed for this current golden generation. Martinez is the wrong guy imo. They should've put aside patriotic pride and gone for a top class foreign coach... maybe even someone like LVG lol! Kind of. We struggled earlier because we were between two good generations of players. Our team is good now (our defense is crazy stacked right now) but especially the last euro we had a bad coach. The KNVB only wants Dutch coaches as well so we were stuck with Frank de Boer. We did much better with a decent coach (Koeman) before that and a good coach now (LVG). Depending on our opponents we should definitely get a good result at the world cup. I'm sure Netherlands is not short of top coaches. There's LVG and ten Hag. Was appointing former superstars with little coaching experience like van Basten and de Boer a mistake, you think? Koeman is a questionable choice too, with mediocre results at club level. It's like Acro said. All the good coaches we had are retired (LVG, Hiddink, Advocaat, Van Marwijk). Ten Hag is good but didn't prove himself at any top club except Ajax. Koeman is a mixed bag at the club level but did well at the national team so I'm pretty sure he'll succeed LVG. But after that there are no good alternatives. Cocu and Van Bommel aren't very impressive, Bosz plays attractive football but always loses, and Van Bronckhorst is doing well but needs more experience imo. I think appointing former stars with little coaching experience doesn't make a lot of sense but I don't think it had that much effect on our results. Van Basten did decent and the problem with Frank de Boer is that he's a bad coach who failed everywhere except Ajax. The only other coach with little experience was Danny Blind and he's been aweful as a coach everywhere as well. In my view the real problem is that we're not willing to look at alternatives outside of The Netherlands and as a consequence we're fishing out of a very shallow pond of talent. I understand the preference for a Dutch coach but sometimes it's just not possible.
Seems like NL's slump in player pool and coaching pool kinda coincide together in a double whammy. To have LVG, Hiddink and Advocaat somewhat retiring around the same time is just unfortunate. I always thought Van Marwijk should've been given more time. Yes, he drifted NL towards the dark arts in WC 2010. But with a team full of flair, makes sense to add some spine and steel. And they nearly nicked the WC from Spain too (Robben's miss was so agonising to watch). The next Euro, NL kinda bombed - but it's quite normal for WC champions/finalist/ to bomb out in the next big tourney (Italy, France and Germany after their 2000+ WC wins).
Anyway, I do hope NL makes a comeback... and finally win the elusive WC (gods, they deserve one more than any other team)!
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EPT
