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Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On April 21 2021 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote:
From the tone of the statements it looks like the reaction genuinely terrified the English clubs, but the others don't seem that bothered and see it as more of a temporary setback.
It’s all about the English clubs, in some fundamental way I guess.
In their dealings with their own leagues, the big Spanish and Italian clubs are trying to bridge that gap, to an almost obsessive level if we’re talking Agnelli and Perez
As big as the commercial income is for these clubs, the baseline safety of the Premier League’s current TV deal is a gigantic advantage. Not even factoring in external money that those clubs have.
The other European clubs need this more than the Premier League ones, but given the owners of the latter include many Americans, they’re receptive too.
As long as football is part business, part sporting glory any injection of extra cash into one area will inflate and destabilise the whole.
If it was purely business clubs wouldn’t put themselves into perilous states so frequently chasing the dream. If it was purely about glory and sport there’d be a lot less money floating around.
The Premier League’s financial muscle is pretty destabilising to the rest of European football. Juventus have been run exemplarily since returning to Serie A, this fiasco excepted and they’re pulling in a decent chunk less than Spurs. Never mind an Ajax.
Absolutely not the right way to go about it, and it’s unsure if the Prem’s TV deals can continue on their trajectory, but some kind of mechanism would be nice to equalise things. As it stands Prem money does so between leagues, and Champion’s League access and income does so within leagues.
Fuck if I know how you would do such a thing though.
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On April 22 2021 02:36 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2021 02:10 mahrgell wrote:On April 22 2021 01:58 Oukka wrote:On April 22 2021 01:22 plasmidghost wrote:
I really hope that we as football fans can tell UEFA to drop their changes. Even if Arsenal were to be guaranteed a spot in CL by one of those VIP spots, I would still hate it. We and every other team have to earn a spot.
Even if our play in PL is awful this season, if we do manage to win EL, I'll consider that an earned CL spot and be happy. If we somehow get it handed to us, I almost certainly won't watch. Agreed. Getting to the CL via a "legacy spot" is such an abomination. I really am displeased with the fact that the Super League drama covered the CL announcement and shielded them from worse public reactioon. Also the Glazer statement (and every other one on the super league topic, too) read a lot more honest when you replace the word 'sustainable' with 'profitable'. I find the wording around "sustainable" funny anyway... Those are the richest clubs in the world and also the ones spending the most. Obviously, if they have to look so hard to "save football" and "make it sustainable" their current doing isn't sustainable, which their horrendous amounts of debt also confirm... But well.... it was them, who escalated the wage and transfer fee spiral that much... If it isn't sustainable, then... SIMPLY STOP DOING IT! No, it isn't the doing of the Brightons, Nürnbergs, Fiorentina or Getafes, who forced you into those excesses. It was only yourself. You are the driving force causing this! And if you feel your current spending isn't sustainable, then the times scheming this breakaway league would have been better spent on looking for ways to cut your spending together with the other big ones, who seem to have the same issue as you... And somehow, from experience, I'm nearly completely sure, that even if those clubs somehow had thrice the money.... they would still manage to overspend yet again because they would try to poach the Messis and Neymars from each other... the only way to cut spending at this point is to have a salary cap or a transfer cap to save the clubs from themselves. the FPP really isnt doing enough
FFP was pushed through by the big clubs so that they could stop anyone else joining the elite. Sure, a smaller club can push through and have one good season. But they don't have nearly as much revenue after that to invest money and stay at the top, or keep their players from getting poached by the big money clubs
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Props to Aston Villa for scoring in just 21 seconds
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Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On April 22 2021 03:48 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2021 02:36 zev318 wrote:On April 22 2021 02:10 mahrgell wrote:On April 22 2021 01:58 Oukka wrote:On April 22 2021 01:22 plasmidghost wrote:
I really hope that we as football fans can tell UEFA to drop their changes. Even if Arsenal were to be guaranteed a spot in CL by one of those VIP spots, I would still hate it. We and every other team have to earn a spot.
Even if our play in PL is awful this season, if we do manage to win EL, I'll consider that an earned CL spot and be happy. If we somehow get it handed to us, I almost certainly won't watch. Agreed. Getting to the CL via a "legacy spot" is such an abomination. I really am displeased with the fact that the Super League drama covered the CL announcement and shielded them from worse public reactioon. Also the Glazer statement (and every other one on the super league topic, too) read a lot more honest when you replace the word 'sustainable' with 'profitable'. I find the wording around "sustainable" funny anyway... Those are the richest clubs in the world and also the ones spending the most. Obviously, if they have to look so hard to "save football" and "make it sustainable" their current doing isn't sustainable, which their horrendous amounts of debt also confirm... But well.... it was them, who escalated the wage and transfer fee spiral that much... If it isn't sustainable, then... SIMPLY STOP DOING IT! No, it isn't the doing of the Brightons, Nürnbergs, Fiorentina or Getafes, who forced you into those excesses. It was only yourself. You are the driving force causing this! And if you feel your current spending isn't sustainable, then the times scheming this breakaway league would have been better spent on looking for ways to cut your spending together with the other big ones, who seem to have the same issue as you... And somehow, from experience, I'm nearly completely sure, that even if those clubs somehow had thrice the money.... they would still manage to overspend yet again because they would try to poach the Messis and Neymars from each other... the only way to cut spending at this point is to have a salary cap or a transfer cap to save the clubs from themselves. the FPP really isnt doing enough FFP was pushed through by the big clubs so that they could stop anyone else joining the elite. Sure, a smaller club can push through and have one good season. But they don't have nearly as much revenue after that to invest money and stay at the top, or keep their players from getting poached by the big money clubs
It does largely do this, hence why it’s a flawed system.
I don’t think the big clubs are nearly as bothered at competition below them, or of an equivalent level as they are at a new level of competition being established they they can’t match.
Specifically clubs with that sweet oil money on an image-building exercise where the market rates don’t really matter.
Though people complained/complain about an Abramovich and their spending, he didn’t really break the market. It was just an extra club spending the kind of sums of a Manchester United or a Real Madrid on players.
PSG prior to bring reined in absolutely did distort the top end market, in a manner detrimental to many. When a 200 million player is a thing and a 30 million player becomes a 60 million player etc.
PSG currently have a decent but top-heavy team because FFP forced them to choose between having two 200 million players on huge money and a less deep squad, or a more balanced squad. City have a deep and rounded squad, but haven’t been buying the Neymars of the world.
Imagine if they could do both, the Premier League could remain competitive but the French league would have little hope.
Again I can’t stress that FFP is flawed, but as I’ve mentioned before by attempting to get teams to show their books are balanced to some degree, teams have been run well enough to generally weather a pandemic. Without such restrictions I’m sure we’d have some really notable casualties where the downturn would make clubs insolvent, hell plenty are teetering as it is.
What FFP clearly lacks is redistributive mechanisms for smaller but well-run clubs to bridge the gap consistently with those who can spend more by virtue of larger incomes.
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Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On April 22 2021 04:20 plasmidghost wrote:
Props to Aston Villa for scoring in just 21 seconds
They’ve just succeeded in making the Hulk angry it appears.
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Meanwhile, the PSG boss is the new chair of the ECA (after Agnelli). Someone bet on the right horse this week -- as if anyone doubted that PSG would have joined eventually.
The fact that one of those mass murdering Quatar bosses is now head of the European club association should be ample evidence of how big a change is needed to save football.
Also: #BoycottQuatar2021
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
(original post removed)
Or not, i'm not gonna follow anyway
I should be able to delete my stupid posts 
But to be on topic at least a little - I wonder what will be the consequences on the team morale as I think this had to shake some nerves
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Barca will probably feel the least backlash after this.
Will still lose Messi 100%
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The Premier League is seeking the removal of big 6 clubs from all committees and working groups.
Manchester United executive vice chairman Ed Woodward, Chelsea chairman Bruce Buck, Arsenal CEO Vinai Venkatesham, Manchester City CEO Ferran Soriano and Liverpool chairman Tom Werner have all been asked to step down from their positions on Premier League committees.
This follows yesterday's angry meeting of the 14 Premier League clubs which are not involved in the Super League.
They believe these ‘big six’ executives —bar Tottenham who are not represented on any Premier League committees — have acted in bad faith by taking part in sensitive talks and negotiations whilst conspiring behind the other clubs' backs.
The other 14 clubs and the Premier League board deem these executives to have breached two rules, B.16 and L.9.
Firstly, those involved in the Super League have not behaved “towards each other Club and the League with the utmost good faith” and secondly, without prior written approval of the board, they intended to enter its senior men's first team in another competition.
The Athletic
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"bar Tottenham who are not represented on any Premier League committees"
ha ha, the never ending jabs at the spurs
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On April 22 2021 22:22 DropBear wrote:The Premier League is seeking the removal of big 6 clubs from all committees and working groups. Show nested quote +Manchester United executive vice chairman Ed Woodward, Chelsea chairman Bruce Buck, Arsenal CEO Vinai Venkatesham, Manchester City CEO Ferran Soriano and Liverpool chairman Tom Werner have all been asked to step down from their positions on Premier League committees.
This follows yesterday's angry meeting of the 14 Premier League clubs which are not involved in the Super League.
They believe these ‘big six’ executives —bar Tottenham who are not represented on any Premier League committees — have acted in bad faith by taking part in sensitive talks and negotiations whilst conspiring behind the other clubs' backs.
The other 14 clubs and the Premier League board deem these executives to have breached two rules, B.16 and L.9.
Firstly, those involved in the Super League have not behaved “towards each other Club and the League with the utmost good faith” and secondly, without prior written approval of the board, they intended to enter its senior men's first team in another competition. The Athletic On one hand this will only make it more likely for them to try again in the future, but its good that there are consequences for trying to unilaterally break away.
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This should go over well.
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He isn't necessarily wrong.
If these top clubs with large debts want to keep going as they are they need a large source of reliable income.
The CL isn't reliable enough, you can fail to qualify and a lot of the money comes from winning, which is hard.
Ofcourse most people would say that the problem is the over the top salary's and that the current system is entirely sustainable if they didn't pay hundreds of millions for a single player but the suits at the top see it differently, they are not willing to come down from their position, so they will keep trying to implement something like the SL.
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I'm not going to get too into UK politics here but I really do wonder if Boris Johnson is going to follow through with regards to the PL reforms he said he'd do something about. I personally would like to see some sort of check on the powers of these billionaires
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It kind of is for them. They financially cease to exist in 2 months
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On April 23 2021 01:58 DropBear wrote:It kind of is for them. They financially cease to exist in 2 months
If those UEFA changes to CL happen, they could be safe, but if something changes, like UEFA suspending the clubs from European competitions or the changes being reverted, they're doomed
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On April 23 2021 02:02 plasmidghost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 01:58 DropBear wrote:It kind of is for them. They financially cease to exist in 2 months If those UEFA changes to CL happen, they could be safe, but if something changes, like UEFA suspending the clubs from European competitions or the changes being reverted, they're doomed
Which would trigger the crisis once more, as the Clubs would this time say good riddance with even more determination and fury than before. With UEFA being in real danger of ceasing to exist.
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On April 23 2021 02:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2021 02:02 plasmidghost wrote:On April 23 2021 01:58 DropBear wrote:It kind of is for them. They financially cease to exist in 2 months If those UEFA changes to CL happen, they could be safe, but if something changes, like UEFA suspending the clubs from European competitions or the changes being reverted, they're doomed Which would trigger the crisis once more, as the Clubs would this time say good riddance with even more determination and fury than before. With UEFA being in real danger of ceasing to exist.
True. I have no idea what the solution is here, but it should absolutely involve reining in ridiculous transfer fees and salaries for players
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To keep going as they are these clubs may well 'need' something like the Super League.
But that is entirely a problem of their own creation. Its their bad financial decisions and them allowing player salaries to balloon as they have.
They don't have to pay 100's of millions for a player. They don't need to take out 3 loans to build the biggest bestest stadium ever.
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EPT
