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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On April 20 2021 06:18 Oukka wrote:
@Wombat, re your point from page or two ago: EU law pretty exclusively prevents salary caps, that's been spoken of before and really just can't go ahead. Firms agreeing to not compete with each other like that is an obvious illegal cartel. Interestingly, same thing could be true possibly regarding the transfer ban between the super league sides that was spoken of at some point.
I had interesting conversation about the proposals with a few friends. One of them quite openly said that after a year or two he'd want to watch the games regardless of the outrage. I think that illustrates the urgency to kill this ESL nonsense right off. If it starts it won't stop and top level football is even less about the game and more about corporate interests.
British clubs for a start no?
I mean it doesn’t necessarily have to be salary caps, just, something. That aside if you had a company own the rights to clubs and competitions, rather than separate businesses competing under licence in a league, surely then there wouldn’t be laws standardising the salary pool?
Not especially advocating for such a thing, but it could sidestep the whole cartel/competition thing.
Aside from that, the general outrage of the concept one of the most jarring aspects of this is amongst widening competition gaps and ever inflating wages despite ever increasing TV deals, this breakaway still happens and why?
Who the fuck gives these clubs the right to throw in platitudes about safeguarding the game amidst a padenmic and making it more sustainable?
The solution is to just get more money?
Despite being streets ahead in terms of income, Madrid are heavily in debt, Barca are perilously in debt, United have tons of (serviceable) debt, Inter are looking a buyer due to debt, Milan are not long out of some disastrous times financially in the post-Berlusconi era, etc.
‘We need more money because no matter how much extra money we keep getting we can’t manage it properly’ is basically the Super League’s ultimate justification.
Fuck that noise. It would be to the benefit of almost all stakeholders to keep costs from inflating so money can be made from football, trying to narrow competitive gaps and thus make broadcasting rights to even more attractive. But no let’s go in the opposite direction.
It only takes one or two clubs to completely distort the market in ways that ripple down the pyramid. Indeed I’ve heard it said that PSG actively intended that as a side bonus from the huge Neymar and Mbappe deals. Zidane’s record transfer figure stood for ages and seems positively quaint at 40 million nowadays.
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On April 20 2021 08:17 zev318 wrote:
if they'd lay out how it "saves" football, instead of just saying it, that would be more convincing.
like if they came out with a concrete plan with numbers etc, that for example, makes the super league more beneficial for the lower leagues of each country than the CL.
They don't do that because they're full of shit.
Literally everything about this league is structured to give the founding clubs far more money consistently and protect them from fluctuations in revenue. It does this by giving them a huge slice of the pie regardless of their performance (the winner of the league gets a pittance) and by protecting them from relegation.
There is basically nothing in the structure of this proposed league that helps football in any way. It only helps rich clubs.
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On April 20 2021 06:21 Pandemona wrote:
[Marco Rossi] Already hearing rumours that Chelsea and Man City are trying to U-turn from this #ESL mess. Neither liked idea, but ‘had to follow’ or risk huge financial problems. They think they can persuade Spurs and believe 3 English clubs will be enough to dissolve plans. #THFC #CFC #MCFC
That would be nice news, i do hope my club does the right thing now. It looks more than likely the ESL is going to fail before it gets started with the backlash etc and the government issues, so lets just do the right thing and quit it now. The first club to do this and bail on this project will be applauded.
That's good, I don't think United actually announced this on their social media, they probably expected the backlash.
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Im sorry you random new superleague
You'll never have Maradona doing the warm up to the rhythm of "Life is life"
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Not sure if Perez is serious or trolling with those quotes lmao. Some are absolutely ridiculous.
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Maybe just add some ad breaks/tv timeouts to have the viewers recover their breath! It would be the perfect solution in the interest of all of football!
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Klopps reaction has disappointed me. How can he criticise leeds and all the fans but not liverpool owners? Thats weak
Really liked milners Interview!!
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51662 Posts
i've never seen the news of someone's sacking swept so hard under the rug but with mourinho/esl that's taken it to a whole new level.
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Well this is the point really. Let's be honest, the problems didn't begin now, it's been getting worse for decades. The ESL is only a step further down the path football has been on, albeit a big one. As has been pointed out several times, UEFA and FIFA are total scum themselves and they have for decades happily gone along with the concentration of wealth at a minority of super clubs while lining their own pockets. The great irony is that the ESL is announced the day before the new CL format, which is already an abomination shaped to the liking of the rich few.
Watch the above clip with El Diego, watch some 80s top English football, watch '86 world cup highlights -- it was all so different back then and so much more alive. Top football has been dying for decades, it's already in a zombie state.
What football needs is a major jolt, and imo it's not going to come from the clubs themselves. The fans need to make themselves so loud and organise boycotts etc to make it happen. Now with even the attention of governments is the time to do it.
We need the 50+1 rule across european football. We need an end to all-seaters. We need fan representation in all of football's governing bodies to prevent shit like Monday night fixtures, extortionate ticket prices, and sham "champion's" leagues were most champions never even get to play.
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When clubs decided its OK to pay 200MM euro for a player , and pad the agents and players pockets to a level unheard of they were basically kicking the can down the road , paying Messi 600MM euro`s in 4 years alone is beyond crazy , now you can say he generates a lot of money and that might be true , BUT , if you go back to Romario`s Barcelona , the games were still packed to the limit , they had massive fans around the world , and the salaries were much more sane all around , once teams got greedy and sold out to the richest country/owners in a dream to be the top flight in football we got into an arm race for players in which it just devastated the economy and viability of the game , we are at a point where Barcelona cannot sustain it self from just "being" a football club , it needs this super league for the injection of money.
Barcelona no longer cares about the local fans , its history, about the city it resides in , they only care about maximizing profits.
That need to generate growth non stop without any consideration of anything but said growth is causing so much pain around the world in every single sector of life , we are so efficient now days exploiting the capitalism system its simply destructive and backfired long ago about the basic idea that it tried to achieve.
And we are also to blame , as the fans pressure the owners to overpay for players to be competitive with the rest of the big spenders , the fans rejoice when they get their own "sugar daddy" to spend money on their team and make it better , but once it backfires and ticket prices go up and super leagues are being made , then we get this big back fire.
This idea was in the air for a while , and this pandemic just made it expedite to reality.
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On April 20 2021 17:23 bluzi wrote:
When clubs decided its OK to pay 200MM euro for a player , and pad the agents and players pockets to a level unheard of they were basically kicking the can down the road , paying Messi 600MM euro`s in 4 years alone is beyond crazy , now you can say he generates a lot of money and that might be true , BUT , if you go back to Romario`s Barcelona , the games were still packed to the limit , they had massive fans around the world , and the salaries were much more sane all around , once teams got greedy and sold out to the richest country/owners in a dream to be the top flight in football we got into an arm race for players in which it just devastated the economy and viability of the game , we are at a point where Barcelona cannot sustain it self from just "being" a football club , it needs this super league for the injection of money.
Barcelona no longer cares about the local fans , its history, about the city it resides in , they only care about maximizing profits.
That need to generate growth non stop without any consideration of anything but said growth is causing so much pain around the world in every single sector of life , we are so efficient now days exploiting the capitalism system its simply destructive and backfired long ago about the basic idea that it tried to achieve.
And we are also to blame , as the fans pressure the owners to overpay for players to be competitive with the rest of the big spenders , the fans rejoice when they get their own "sugar daddy" to spend money on their team and make it better , but once it backfires and ticket prices go up and super leagues are being made , then we get this big back fire.
This idea was in the air for a while , and this pandemic just made it expedite to reality.
Only 1 club backed by oil money decided it was ok to spend $200m on a player. Barcelona and Real accumulated debts due to poor/unsustainable management and the pandemic certainly did not help matters. There are big clubs like Bayern, Liverpool etc. who run is a much more sustainable manner.
This is simply a case of the rich wanting to get richer, nothing more than that.
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On April 20 2021 14:50 sharkie wrote:
Klopps reaction has disappointed me. How can he criticise leeds and all the fans but not liverpool owners? Thats weak
Really liked milners Interview!!
His owners employ him I guess?
I like Klopp but he can be pretty snippy sometimes, I merely read his comments as being frustrated at being pressured to make a stand by Leeds over something he’d already been critical of, and however he was made aware of what Gary Neville said he didn’t seem to know exactly what was said. Remember too that the protests Leeds supporters did, lacking the outlet of stadium attendance they were left with barracking the Liverpool bus, full of people who had no input into the decision.
I don’t think it’s wrong to use the only outlet available, but I imagine you’d be annoyed if you’re in that bus.
I’ll give Klopp a pass for being a bit spiky, imagine if your boss did something hugely unpopular (apparently) didn’t tell you about it and it’s announced to huge negative opinion and you have to turn up to work the next day where you’re taking the heat for it, and there’s an expectation that you disavow your own employer’s plan.
I would be disappointed in Klopp if he keeps quiet on the issue moving on, absolutely but I think I can give him a pass for a short period to process this.
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At least we have something else than Covid to talk about for a change :D
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Its been two days. I don't want to hear anyone else whining about sanctions against players being unfair. They aren't slaves. They have the freedom to all band together and come out publicly against this, and they have so far made the choice not to. They will reap the financial benefits of this league if it goes ahead, so although they didn't choose to be in this position they are making their choice every hour that goes by that they continue to say nothing. Managers too. Including Klopp with his weakass shit yesterday.
The club owners and agents want them to feel pressure not to say anything, until the worst of the backlash has died down. The players and managers are complying nicely.
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Agreed. It's not like they have to worry about paying rent next month if they have to leave their club. They'll just have to play at a different club for a yearly wage which is more than regular people earn in their lives. Players often have a big mouth but when it touches them directly they're quiet. It's cowardice.
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On April 20 2021 17:23 bluzi wrote:
When clubs decided its OK to pay 200MM euro for a player , and pad the agents and players pockets to a level unheard of they were basically kicking the can down the road , paying Messi 600MM euro`s in 4 years alone is beyond crazy , now you can say he generates a lot of money and that might be true , BUT , if you go back to Romario`s Barcelona , the games were still packed to the limit , they had massive fans around the world , and the salaries were much more sane all around , once teams got greedy and sold out to the richest country/owners in a dream to be the top flight in football we got into an arm race for players in which it just devastated the economy and viability of the game , we are at a point where Barcelona cannot sustain it self from just "being" a football club , it needs this super league for the injection of money.
Barcelona no longer cares about the local fans , its history, about the city it resides in , they only care about maximizing profits.
That need to generate growth non stop without any consideration of anything but said growth is causing so much pain around the world in every single sector of life , we are so efficient now days exploiting the capitalism system its simply destructive and backfired long ago about the basic idea that it tried to achieve.
And we are also to blame , as the fans pressure the owners to overpay for players to be competitive with the rest of the big spenders , the fans rejoice when they get their own "sugar daddy" to spend money on their team and make it better , but once it backfires and ticket prices go up and super leagues are being made , then we get this big back fire.
This idea was in the air for a while , and this pandemic just made it expedite to reality.
Fans are quick to look the other way when it’s their club, or indeed demand money thrown at problems. But it’s never to be a bigger brand, it’s to be competitive on the field.
The problem is that it only takes one or two clubs to upset the applecart, clubs being prudent stop being competitive, fans get antsy and the pressure is there to spend and spend.
Arsenal got royally fucked by this. They embarked on building a new stadium to increase revenues and were run pretty responsibly, remaining reasonably competitive only to come out the other side where having a bigger stadium was largely irrelevant when you’re competing against oil money. Then of course the current owners and their relative lack of ambition is subsequently explained neatly - that they were holding out and involved in the creation of this Super League. Also I imagine the powers that be at Arsenal hadn’t quite anticipated how big the Premier League broadcasting deals would spiral to become.
Part of the problem is fans in other places, Florentino Perez is a huge Real Madrid fan, Agnelli is running a part of a generational family business. This completely blinds them to obvious realities when they’re bemoaning La Liga or Serie A’s station and why they continually come up with the wrong answers. Your leagues are increasingly uncompetitive and that’s why they’re not attractive to viewers or sponsors, make the pie more tasty rather than continually trying to grab a bigger slice of the pie because ‘you’re the reason people watch this league’.
Serie A’s heyday there was money, there was also a foreign player cap for a while, so many teams had a real world class player or two, spread out the league. The era of the ‘Seven sisters’ was even more competitive than the Premier League’s best years for the most part.
Of course you can’t put in such caps in such a fashion, you could tie it to salary in some way and maybe achieve something similar.
Look at the squads or even top, top teams in the 90s and 2000s and there’s merely ‘decent pros’ there, there’s youth players etc. And I don’t mean your Xavis and Iniestas
Today you have absolute top drawer players stuck as benchwarmers or worse, on too much money to go elsewhere and big clubs could conceivably field 2 different 11s that could beat most teams in their leagues.
Only for the big clubs to complain because costs are too high, I wonder why that is?
Coutinho helped Liverpool fine tune their squad so, there was some benefit there, but there sure wasn’t much benefit to the player or Barca from that transfer. James Rodriguez was/is a great talent but unless you’re building a team around him there’s not much point. Ends up a similar one to Coutinho. Donny van der Beek is entering that zone of being a 50 million player who doesn’t play.
Man City actually do rotate rather well so don’t waste players so much, but almost any Premier League club would be strengthened by a Barnado Silva or a Mahrez. Chelsea haven’t cracked their problem in having 76 wide attacker/number 10 types but again, any of those players would be an automatic starter and upgrade for many other clubs.
We’ve gone past the era of first 11s having real world class talent, arguably past them being frequently on the bench into a time where the super clubs have them as mere squad players. Fitness/motivation issues aside, Gareth Bale says hello.
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EPT
