EPTFormula 1 Discussion - Page 117
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RKC
2848 Posts
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pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
I can understand why they needed to hand the win to sainz at whatever cost, at his 150th race. It’s about internal prestige, and favouritism; internal politics are more important to Ferrari than results and productivity. As a matter of fact, Ferrari sells cars and has the biggest brand in F1. So yeah, winning a championship is okay, but keeping it in the family is more important, if not they would have fired a bunch of staff. Things like the colour of the car are of absolute significance to them, not strategy. I’ ve seen viewers have a better strategy than some of their races. End of the day I don’ t really care what or how they do, as they are not my team. But I understand their decision making and can understand a lot of subtle things happening there. It’s not about how good you are, it’s about who you know, how well connected you are, and what social prestige you have. This is the Italian overall mentality, and it transpires in Ferrari to me. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Then again, it's hard not to feel sorry for Leclerc with all his string of bad luck over the years. He's still young and time is on his side. Ferrari still feels like a good fit for him. After his blistering start of the season, seemed like the stars were starting to shine for him. Maybe not this season or next. But he'll be a champion one day! | ||
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Excludos
Norway8278 Posts
On July 04 2022 16:11 Laurens wrote: In hindsight it's easy for us to say... I genuinely dislike the hindsight cliché, because it's obvious in the moment too. I'm not by any means claiming that it's not hard to make correct decisions when you're in the heat of the moment, but if clueless fans like myself can immediately spot bad strategies as they happen, then people who's full time jobs it is to do this should be able to as well. They have computers running continuous calculations telling them exactly what pit windows they are in (with and without SC), tyre life, current lap times vs expected lap times after pitting, etc. They should have all the information available screaming at them to pit both drivers, and yet they refuse to because "Buh then we might not keep position if someone else behind are also morons and doesn't pit. What if one of our drivers have to *gasp* PASS ANOTHER CAR!? Good heavens no". There were 10 racing laps on the new compounds. A set of softs would easily have passed 4 other cars on old hards in that time, especially for someone like Leclerc who's rise to fame is literally being good at passing people in a short amount of time. I will say tho, I am very happy that the typical dumb Ferrari strategy ended up in Sainz favour. He was long overdue | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On July 04 2022 15:02 RKC wrote: Yes, I don't get this strategy. I'm a casual fan with little technical knowledge. To me, keeping track position just seems like a conservative mindset (hoping your opponent doesn't screw up pit stop and cant race hard enough to catch up). When you're in the lead, you should take charge of destiny in your own hands (switch to whatever tires that will let your drive harder and extend your lead long-term). Staying on merely to protect a lead just seems like running scared. It definitely seems like a strategy created under the mindset of the field being made up of cars with the traits of the previous generation of F1 cars and not this generation. Last year, because such a huge car+tire performance differential was required for an overtake to work, it made sense at times to be conservative and prioritize track position since often, unless there was a large tire performance differential, the person in front would have a huge advantage when defending. We saw this tactic work out well for both Mercedes and Red Bull last year. However, with the new cars, that whole idea goes out the window unless you're at a track like Monaco or Australia. With the combination of cars being much easier to follow and DRS being exceptionally powerful at some tracks, suddenly the person behind doesn't need to have massively better tire or car performance to have a reasonable chance at overtaking. This makes it so staying out on much older tires is a bigger gamble than pitting now. A lot of the bizarro strategy calls Ferrari keep making make more sense if you think of them in context to how F1 racing worked last year. Red Bull also made a few strategy calls with this type of mindset in the first few races but after that they seemingly adapted their strategy to suit the characteristics of the new cars and this is probably why their strategy has seemed more aggressive. Depending on the track, the more aggressive strategies seem to work much better with these cars since for teams like Red Bull, having to overtake slower cars is less of an issue and less likely to cause them to lose time than in the past. Ferrari still seem to be treating pitting and potentially having to overtake as a huge risk when it probably isn't for them anymore since their car is so fast and can now easily overtake slower cars. This whole thing just feels like another example of Ferrari failing to adapt properly to the state of the competition they're in. | ||
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pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
Just in case anyone ever missed out on this | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4558 Posts
On July 05 2022 03:31 Excludos wrote: I genuinely dislike the hindsight cliché, because it's obvious in the moment too. I'm not by any means claiming that it's not hard to make correct decisions when you're in the heat of the moment, but if clueless fans like myself can immediately spot bad strategies as they happen, then people who's full time jobs it is to do this should be able to as well. They have computers running continuous calculations telling them exactly what pit windows they are in (with and without SC), tyre life, current lap times vs expected lap times after pitting, etc. They should have all the information available screaming at them to pit both drivers, and yet they refuse to because "Buh then we might not keep position if someone else behind are also morons and doesn't pit. What if one of our drivers have to *gasp* PASS ANOTHER CAR!? Good heavens no". There were 10 racing laps on the new compounds. A set of softs would easily have passed 4 other cars on old hards in that time, especially for someone like Leclerc who's rise to fame is literally being good at passing people in a short amount of time. I will say tho, I am very happy that the typical dumb Ferrari strategy ended up in Sainz favour. He was long overdue Except it's true. What if Latifi sends it into the wall straight after the restart and we get a red flag? Ferrari is now p5 + p6 and the 4 cars in front get free Softs. And don't call that far fetched cause it literally happened in Abu Dhabi and got Max the championship lol. (e: abu dhabi had no red flag, mixed it up with Jeddah where both mercs went in for tyres during an SC and shortly afterwards a red flag happened and Max stayed p1 with fresh softs) Splitting strategies is just playing it safe and accounting for that. If the above scenario happened I bet everyone would be screaming at Ferrari "Why did you call both cars in, you guys are so incompetent!" | ||
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Excludos
Norway8278 Posts
On July 07 2022 17:39 Laurens wrote: Except it's true. What if Latifi sends it into the wall straight after the restart and we get a red flag? Ferrari is now p5 + p6 and the 4 cars in front get free Softs. And don't call that far fetched cause it literally happened in Abu Dhabi and got Max the championship lol. (e: abu dhabi had no red flag, mixed it up with Jeddah where both mercs went in for tyres during an SC and shortly afterwards a red flag happened and Max stayed p1 with fresh softs) Splitting strategies is just playing it safe and accounting for that. If the above scenario happened I bet everyone would be screaming at Ferrari "Why did you call both cars in, you guys are so incompetent!" You have to go for the most likely scenario here, and the likeliest scenario is everyone pitting for softs behind you because otherwise they will also lose out on the restart. You can hope for red flags in dire situations, but you can never rely on them. Otherwise you'll continuously put yourself in terrible strategies. Heck, you'd never ever do a single pit stop, because "what if Latifi puts it in the wall right afterwards? You'd lose out time!" Not that it's not possible to gamble and win (*cough* Albon *Cough*), but that's just exactly that, a gamble. You don't gamble when you're the one who has something to lose If the worst of the worst did happen, aka Leclerc pitted for softs, somehow no one behind did, and then the restart was immediately red flagged because of Latifi, He'd still be in P4 with the fastest car on the grid with 10 laps to go. That's a much better prospect than slowest car on the grid (due to tires) in P1 with 3 faster cars breathing down your neck There's simply no defending Ferrari strategy. It's all poor all the time, and they've completely shot any chance they've had for a WDC this year because of it. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
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Penev
28536 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8278 Posts
Every driver in F1 are putting their lives on the line for our entertainment. They deserve better than being cheered for crashing or booed in interviews, whether their name is Max or Lewis. And heck, even if that wasn't true, you still don't do that in solo sports (and F1 very much a solo affair. Heck, your teammate is often your biggest rival). Try booing at a tennis tournament and see how long it takes you to get thrown out. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
On July 09 2022 11:06 Excludos wrote: F1, unfortunately, has a lot of toxicity. Heck, just take a trip to r/formula1 and see some of the nasty tripe people are spewing. Every driver in F1 are putting their lives on the line for our entertainment. They deserve better than being cheered for crashing or booed in interviews, whether their name is Max or Lewis. And heck, even if that wasn't true, you still don't do that in solo sports (and F1 very much a solo affair. Heck, your teammate is often your biggest rival). Try booing at a tennis tournament and see how long it takes you to get thrown out. True. It doesn't help how some media are reporting on things either. Constantly publishing articles and videos designed to stir the pot. Usually based on a single remark or short answer from someone, without any context. It is very noticeable when you watch all post race interviews and press conferences where they base their bullshit on. And it certainly doesn't help when a driver adds to the toxicity for no reason at all if you know what I mean. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
E: Noo Zhou.. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8278 Posts
On July 09 2022 23:57 RKC wrote: Don't get me wrong, it's great seeing the Ferrari drivers fight. But somehow, I have a feeling we're a race or two away from seeing both drivers taking out each other on race day... and the entire championship race... giving RB a free pass to victory. I think RB got a free pass to WDC victory when Ferrari decided to repeatedly shit the bed. If they continue like this, they'll be lucky to keep second. Q3 crashes not withstanding, Mercedes is just looking faster and faster | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On a related note, Albon was interviewed after the sprint race where he was penalized 5 seconds for pushing Norris off the track. While he didn't seem to dispute that he was penalized (though he argued that he didn't intend to push Norris off), he did point out that several drivers had similar situations noted last weekend but didn't get penalized for it. This led to Albon talking about I'm guessing the argument in the meeting was about: it seems right now that if a team makes a stink about stewards not enforcing a particular rule or penalizing a certain situation, suddenly the stewards will enforce the rule strictly the following weekend, even if they were lax about it previously and didn't penalize drivers. George Russell (who we should remember is one of the GDPA directors, the other being Vettel) also said similar things in an interview. It seems that this issue is something the drivers are quite concerned about. Perez also is upset about this weekend's stewarding, not because he lost all those positions for the sprint after they retroactively deleted all of his Q3 lap times along with his final Q2 lap but because they didn't penalize him correctly at the time in Q2. Because of what happened, he's currently down on soft tires since they allowed him to participate in Q3 (despite it being shown on TV during Q2 he was way outside track limits at one corner) then afterward concluded they shouldn't have since he should have had his lap deleted in Q2. His argument is pretty sound I think. His race is being pretty badly impacted by a failure by the stewards to make a decision in a timely manner. Gasly also got harmed by this since he never had a chance to go into Q3 at all despite technically being in the top 10. All around it's just a stupid situation. | ||
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LennX
4572 Posts
And he gets a 5sec time penalty Lap 12: Leclerc overtakessss Verstappen Lots of drivers getting time penalties for exceeding track limits Alonso giving the finger wag to Tsunoda after he got squeezed onto the grass AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH You cant make this up. Sainz Ferrari goes boomz | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
E: Is this going to be another complete Ferrari disaster? | ||
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LennX
4572 Posts
Mercedes improvements are just astounding | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
On July 10 2022 23:19 LennX wrote: Its time to get ready the blessed memes again. Just after Sky was mentioning Hamilton best performance here was 4th. Mercedes improvements are just astounding They're still far behind in speed though, it's just that Perez and Sainz are out. | ||
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