• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:28
CET 10:28
KST 18:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge0[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation13Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
What happened to TvZ on Retro? FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread About SC2SEA.COM Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2197 users

NBA Season 2017-2018 - Page 66

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
Prev 1 64 65 66 67 68 143 Next
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-22 17:54:59
December 22 2017 16:32 GMT
#1301
On December 23 2017 01:23 JimmiC wrote:
So he is a below average starter, who might some day be a allstar but wont ever be the greatest of all time. I mean that could describe 99% of young starters in the league.

the last time you got specific about Wiggins you stated he was an above average player.
my claim is very very specific. he is a below average starting small forward and somewhere between the 18th and 21st best starting small forward in the NBA.
On December 23 2017 01:23 JimmiC wrote:
So he is a below average starter, who might some day be a allstar but wont ever be the greatest of all time. I mean that could describe 99% of young starters in the league.

OG, Tatum, and Simmons are 3 starters younger than Wiggins and above average.
so i don't know if "99% of young starters" in the league are below average. you'd also have to clearly define "young" for a productive discussion.


On December 23 2017 01:23 JimmiC wrote:
Then repeatedly jamming your RAPM lust down our throat doest help.

i've backed up my claim with direct observations ADDED TO stats on many occasions. here are my latest thoughts. but you can go back a year ago and see me saying pretty much the same stuff.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sports/526388-nba-season-2017-2018?page=64#1276
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sports/526388-nba-season-2017-2018?page=64#1278
On December 23 2017 01:23 JimmiC wrote:
Especially when you backup with your "EYE test" which 100% matches rapm and you say thongs like klove looks like a average defender to me.

my eye test on love could be wrong because i don't watch him much. i already stated that.

On December 23 2017 01:23 JimmiC wrote:
Especially when you backup with your "EYE test" which 100% matches rapm and you say thongs like klove looks like a average defender to me.

no it doesn't. not 100% of the time. the majority of the time RAPM is a solid measure. but not always.

i say Hill>Rubio>Teague. that does not match RAPM. in 2017 RAPM its Teague>Rubio>Hill.
i've expounded on the limitations of RAPM already.

RAPM indicates Tatum and OG are very close. I disagree. I think Tatum is significantly better than OG due to his ball handling skills. Boston and Toronto don't use OG and Tatum as ball handlers so it can only rarely get captured by a stat.

Tatum is pretty damn slick with the ball... especially considering he is 19 and very tall.

These are just 2 disagreements i have with RAPM measures in 2017. i can continue. but i think u get the point.
On December 23 2017 01:23 JimmiC wrote:you also hedge your bet. So he is a below average starter, who might some day be a allstar but wont ever be the greatest of all time.

almost all players improve in their early 20s.
my exact claims was it'll be 5 years before he becomes an all star.,, if ever. that is specific. and he'll be the kind of allstar demar was 3 years ago. a boxscore stat filler with weak defense.
greatest of all time? my statements about his ceiling are far more specific than that.
he doesn't even project ahead of Giannis, Tatum, Gordon, or OG.

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 22 2017 16:35 GMT
#1302
On December 22 2017 17:49 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
have you seen lowry's hand? LOL. Lowry is also on his 3rd black eye this year. That elbow from Covington was vicious... he'll have a shiner by tomorrow.

i'm predicting 5 black eyes for lowry this year. stitches in his face 6 times and 4 fat lips.

The Raptors have played the fewest home games at 12. Cavs and Boston ~17 home games.


That is an unlikely number of black eyes. My models show only a .5% chance of any guard getting 5 in one season. However, we cannot yet model lip injuries.

Freeeeeeedom
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-22 17:55:44
December 22 2017 17:53 GMT
#1303
the Philadelphia 76ers home court looked pretty cool last night... and the joint was rockin'
the crazy crowd made the Raptors 22 point comeback a little bit more impressive

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-22 18:15:04
December 22 2017 18:14 GMT
#1304
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-22 18:58:29
December 22 2017 18:34 GMT
#1305
On December 23 2017 03:14 JimmiC wrote:
Simmons is a generational talent if he stays healthy he will likely be in the conversation every year for best playrr in the league.

Tatum looks to be real deal and i would probably trade wiggins for him, when you consider contract. That being said id rather have wiggins the fultz or ball.

so if we include Giannis (2 months older), Simmons (younger), and Tatum(way younger) as young starters who are above average or better we'd need 300 below average young starters to make your 99% comment accurate.

i'll just assume the 99% thing was hyperbole to make a point rather than a thoughtful analysis of young starters.
On December 23 2017 03:14 JimmiC wrote:
Also if wiggins is the 19th best sf in the league at 22nd why is he so bad? You will write insulting posts and jabs at him then you post hes fine. It is pretty ridiculous.

my below average comment is in contrast to your last comment that he was above average. you usually keep things very vague though.

On December 23 2017 03:14 JimmiC wrote:
Also if wiggins is the 19th best sf in the league at 22nd why is he so bad? You will write insulting posts and jabs at him then you post hes fine. It is pretty ridiculous.

you're probably being sensitive because i make jokes about Lowry all the time and from an analytical perspective i think he is one of the top 5 point guards in the NBA. Furthermore, he is, by far, the least gifted with god given talent than any top 5 point guard. Westbrook has more talent in his pinky finger than Lowry has in his whole body.

so as you can see i think pretty highly of Lowry ... and at the same time i make jokes about how he looks more like a Maple Leaf in the middle of a Pat Quinn 7-game playoff series hockey war than a basketball player floating through another regular season game.

it appears that measuring Wiggins' play has finally come to a healthy conclusion... so i'm happy with that.

On December 23 2017 03:14 JimmiC wrote:
OG is really out performing his draft position. But slow your roll. He had a career high of 20 the other day and was very efficient. But then last night he had a stinker.

a stinker? i'd say he was average to above average on the offensive end and above average on the defensive end. the Raptors are on a back-to-back, he is coming off ACL surgery and he played 30 minutes last night. So with an 11 man rotation at his disposal Casey dialed back on OG's minutes.

regarding his shooting..."almost nobody who started their career as hot as OG Anunoby from 3 wound up a bad shooter"

https://theathletic.com/193117/2017/12/22/raptors-rookie-og-anunoby-already-changing-perception-of-his-shooting/
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
December 22 2017 18:53 GMT
#1306
On December 22 2017 21:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:
JJ you are being a lazy troll if you cant even make a proper defense of your claims.


There is a certain irony in that this comment is coming from a guy who eats a temp ban every 2 weeks...

You and JimmiC clutter up this entire thread with your constant badgering of JJ over his use of stats even when he posts without referencing a single statistic. Dude posts about how a guy's technique is improving and JimmiC responds with pointless attacks on RAPM and how JJ doesn't know what he's talking about, and it's really fucking annoying.

Like, can either of you point to some instances where he's been flat-out wrong in his analyses of a player? Jimmi likes to use PPat as an example but ignores the fact that the guy suffered a pretty serious knee injury last year. Both of you seem to forget that defense is even a thing a player needs to do, and meanwhile most of what I've read from JJ ends up being pretty accurate, even when I initially disagree with him.

Why do you guys feel the need to make it so personal? Especially when most of your takes are horrendous and based on nothing but a few highlights and offensive box scores? The two of you come across like bad sports call-in listeners using shitty cliches like "gravity" and "basketball IQ" while criticising player's rankings based on their twitter etiquette. It's like watching the three stooges post at each other and shitters up this entire thread because 2 guys won't just let a guy have an opinion.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
December 22 2017 20:54 GMT
#1307
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-23 02:54:25
December 23 2017 01:21 GMT
#1308
the RJ and Wiggins stuff is way off. my comments on those two were and are far more precise.

any how, how is that Memphis coaching change going ?
Fizdale was 7 - 5 with Conley, 0 - 7 without Conley.
Bickerstaff is 2 - 11 (all without Conley)

Memphis is shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic.

Watching the Charlotte//Milwaukee game ... i don't think a player can call a time out while airbourne holding the ball and beyond the boundary line. and yet, a Buck player was granted a TO that way. oh well.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11554 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-23 03:31:48
December 23 2017 03:28 GMT
#1309
yeah I think it's only a matter of time until Mark gets shipped off... but to where? Maybe Portland? Something involving the likes of Nurkic and Turner?
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-23 03:56:24
December 23 2017 03:39 GMT
#1310
i think memphis was blinded the last few years by the mirage of their over achieving team, thinking that they had a shot at the championship. now they're stuck with conley for 4 more years, parsons 3 more years, and if they keep gasol, pretty much 3 years still guaranteed, i dont think he'll opt out unless he's willing to take less elsewhere as a free agent.

btw is the raptors sticking with their preseason goal of shooing more 3s? i remember one preseason game they shot like 50 3s.

houston back to back losses with harden scoring 51. lul
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
December 23 2017 03:56 GMT
#1311
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-23 06:08:58
December 23 2017 04:21 GMT
#1312
Lonzo Ball now has a better 3 point shooting percentage than Andrew Wiggins.

i feel sorry for Charlotte. it seems like almost all of their losses are last minute.
On December 23 2017 12:39 zev318 wrote:
btw is the raptors sticking with their preseason goal of shooing more 3s? i remember one preseason game they shot like 50 3s.

their informal goal is 30 3s per game and 25 assists per game.

when ball movement is sluggish Casey replaces a forward with a point guard giving him 2 PGs.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-23 21:25:57
December 23 2017 21:07 GMT
#1313
Kawaii Leonard played 20 minutes on the 21st and might be held out of today's game for "injury maintenance". Green is out. Gasol is probable. Good thing Pop has a 12 man rotation
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-to-face-Kings-without-Leonard-Green-12452446.php

Tendonitis is brutal... i battled it for 2 years. it ain't fun. make a few wrong moves and you can be set back by weeks.
and when it starts to get better you never really know what your new and higher "activity ceiling" is until you hit it and the tendon inflames again.


Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11554 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-24 02:41:44
December 24 2017 02:40 GMT
#1314
On December 23 2017 12:39 zev318 wrote:
i think memphis was blinded the last few years by the mirage of their over achieving team, thinking that they had a shot at the championship. now they're stuck with conley for 4 more years, parsons 3 more years, and if they keep gasol, pretty much 3 years still guaranteed, i dont think he'll opt out unless he's willing to take less elsewhere as a free agent.

btw is the raptors sticking with their preseason goal of shooing more 3s? i remember one preseason game they shot like 50 3s.

houston back to back losses with harden scoring 51. lul


I mean not all teams subscribe to championship or bust. After all they are businesses that need to fill seats, and they have been doing that quite well. Their teams from 2010s to now have always had good showings in the playoffs. They definitely had a great team culture going with their lineup Zbo, Marc, Tony Allen, and Conley, and the city supported it.
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
December 24 2017 06:24 GMT
#1315
Well, they lost money last year (net income) so...
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-24 06:43:00
December 24 2017 06:34 GMT
#1316
Early today, Celtic's coach Stevens said he was going to use Jayson Tatum in their offense more. I think this is a good move. A day or two ago i noted Tatum is not used as a ball carrier and/or decision-maker/distributor. Up until today that was true.

Welp, Tatum got 5 assists today and looked very, very good. He is a very skilled ball handler for his size.

I think he is already a top 10 small forward in the NBA. He just looked fucking awesome today and with his added responsibilities running some of the offense the Celtic's offense made a quantum leap improvement. If he continues doing less spot-up shooting i think his percentages will fall. However, he'll create more for every one else in the offense... and the over all offense will be better for it.

might be the best i've seen the celtics offense look all year.

Right now, Anunoby's RPM is 2.92 while Tatum's is 2.09. As long as Boston let's Tatum keep running some plays and uses him as more than just a spot-up shooter i think his RPM will be better than Anunoby's.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11554 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-25 04:21:26
December 25 2017 04:19 GMT
#1317
On December 24 2017 15:24 Jerubaal wrote:
Well, they lost money last year (net income) so...


according to Forbes their operating income was ~$10 million from 2014-2016 and was still positive last year. So they had been making money during their grid and grind period. For such a small market team, they do pretty well and their attendance tends to be ok.

That being said, giving Chandler Parsons a max was probably the worst move by any team in recent history...
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
December 25 2017 04:56 GMT
#1318
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-25 06:09:05
December 25 2017 06:01 GMT
#1319
a good look at tomorrow's games. Embiid and Reddick are listed as probable.


he is taking
New York to beat Philly.
Washington to beat Boston.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17008 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-25 22:41:00
December 25 2017 22:40 GMT
#1320
i can't see Cleveland beating a healthy Warriors team in the playoffs.

should Derozan's recent 3 point barrage be a permanent part of his game .. and i think it will be..
i also can't see Cleveland beating a healthy Toronto team in the playoffs either.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Prev 1 64 65 66 67 68 143 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech33
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27363
Shuttle 925
Jaedong 609
Larva 381
Killer 280
Zeus 212
Leta 204
Soma 155
EffOrt 151
Rush 134
[ Show more ]
ZerO 115
Light 91
yabsab 40
ToSsGirL 27
Mind 18
Hm[arnc] 13
Noble 9
ivOry 2
Dota 2
XaKoH 456
febbydoto19
League of Legends
JimRising 529
Reynor87
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss575
olofmeister561
zeus212
Other Games
summit1g17112
ceh9488
Fuzer 269
crisheroes123
rGuardiaN98
Dewaltoss16
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream5422
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3900
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 87
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH219
• LUISG 30
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1302
• Stunt481
• HappyZerGling158
Other Games
• Scarra1063
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
2h 32m
Monday Night Weeklies
7h 32m
Replay Cast
13h 32m
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 2h
BSL: GosuLeague
1d 11h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
IPSL
6 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.