EPTTeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 - Page 121
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Ehzera
Singapore212 Posts
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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Ehzera
Singapore212 Posts
On July 11 2016 22:01 mordek wrote: How's the gym situation? Were you able to go back to that gym that kicked you out for shoes? Yep. This is the school gym. The old gym guy left, new one is pretty cool. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 10 2016 09:37 FFGenerations wrote: oh believe me, starting dragonflags/abs was one of the best things i've done. the difference in strength is astounding . i dont do 100 rep situps, i do like 5 sets of dragonflags to max inbetween dumbell stuff like sideraises/curls. so they are super convenient to do, you just replace your rest periods with them. i dont do sports but just walking or getting out of bed with strong abs is pretty awesome. it also makes an insane difference to my squat but thats probably coz my form is ridiculously bad (altho im standing on 2 inch plates usually now to fix that) maybe ill try flies next sesh look i literally just made a video of me trying to do dragonflags to show you r o f l Apologies for the late reply, I was gone for a while. I wouldn't underestimate sit ups, you definitely don't need to do 100. I put myself on a 20 degree or so decline bench, and you do progression. Start with keeping your arms by your side, as you improve put your arms behind your head, then keep your arms above your head and parallel with your body, then pick up a 2.5-5lbs weight, and keep going up. It gets surprisingly difficult. I used to put a 45lbs pound plate on my chest, and that does nothing, since the weight is so close to your hips, the the torque it generates on your hips is not much at all. I like your video, the song is great too. Seems like a nice exercise, though my complaint is there really is no progression. Once you're able to do them, sure you can start with like 6 reps and do them until you can do say 15... But after that, as far as I can see, you don't really have any way to make it more difficult (unless you want to buy ankle weights or something), as I definitely wouldn't trust myself to not drop a dumbbell on myself. That said, I'll try them in my next ab workout, and see at what stage I'm at, thanks for the recommendation  On July 10 2016 09:04 GoTuNk! wrote: Yeah np, I'm currently doing crossfit though The bench arch is to keep your shoulders back, down and tight, which is key for safety. You should be arching your upper back for safety, lower back/tucked legs is optional. I think benching with a flat back is flat out dangerous. Also, moving more weight in a safer way is def conducive to getting bigger. Isn't a bench press to your chest more or less the same thing as a wider-ish grip push up to your chest? And I usually don't see people calling those dangerous. I dunno though, it's definitely a fine balance between pushing your max RoM for mobility sake, and also not going too far for injury prevention sake. On July 11 2016 19:03 Ehzera wrote: It's a good day today! Hit a 7.5kg pause bench PR at 112.5kg, just 2.5kg above the national record at the age+weight class I'm competing in. The meet is in 5 weeks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvocbtYpI9E Sick lift You might need to slow down on those squats so you can put more muscle on your triceps and chest and really blow that record out of the water lol. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
i'm doing those incline bench situps now too and they're great. it does feel like the dragonflag position/flat bench lets you put a lot more focus on your LOWER abdomen , particularly when you drop your feet towards and below horizontal off the end of the bench. anyway wtvr pushup is different to a flat back bench press coz you dont have 80kg of weight forcing your back into a non-natural perfectly flat position oc.. the song is me trying to figure out comfortably numb timings i finally fucking done it youtube.com/watch?v=bD2uR2bvHu4 also i think i figured out why my hand was busting up every time i used the punch bag/boxing gloves the past 2 months. i cudnt figure it out at all, every time i punched my hand was getting wrecked. i bought some mma gloves and a 2nd (super cheap) boxing glvoes and tried on like 3 different gloves from other people and spent ages wrapping differently and busting my knuckles up without gloves. i think it turns out that after my latest dota break from gym , when i came back to punching again i wasnt actually making a proper fist when i throw punch because my hands werent strong enough to make a fist in the gloves anymore. so i think after ALL this fucking time and bloody knuckles from not using the gloves out of frustration (the mma gloves were unsable also coz they rub) and wasted money i figured it out *off to gym now to try* | ||
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
When I feel like doing abs (rarely) I do this routine: | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
2nd one is boring, i would do dragonflags to partial side probably 3rd one is awesome 4th one is the one i think is shit, it doesnt do anything compared to anything else i dont think dragonflags are "isometric".. as you come down the tension moves to your lower abs , and holding form is very difficult by the time you come up so its easily lost at that point and looks like you're just resetting . even this guy looks like hes fucking it up a tiny bit here on the way back up . if you push your legs out straight then this doesnt happen youtu.be/njKXkuhY7_0?t=8 you can also increase your rom by lowering your legs off the end of the bench , doing them from the floor limits your rom a lot afaik | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
Secondly for me, it's a workout that does not focus on your flexibility at all, and in the same way how sane people don't do seated calf raises, you wouldn't do this exercise unless your only goal is to move as much weight as possible. I think you're way better off doing a more fun exercise (he even said in his workout, what you do doesn't really matter what you do, just anything that's a bit more helps lol), so stuff like this is way more interesting to do: -Pike Roll Outs -Hanging Leg Lifts -Do L-pull ups instead of normal pulls ups -L sit (progression) -Front lever (progression) -Ab rollouts -Human Flag progression Not only are these exercises more compound so you aren't completely isolating your abs, but they also allow you to do some neat motions that are practical in your normal life. And more than any muscle are ones which you work out for appearance more so than practical strength... Like I said, there's not a single common strength exercise where your abs will fail, so long as you're doing the very basic stuff for core strengthening like doing squats. So yeah, outside of powerlifting competitions, I cannot relate to anyone with these goals. Though I realize this thread is disproportionately focused on power lifting and moving the most weight possible at every turn, I'm very glad to see most people have been turning around recently, and the focus has been changing. I'm getting into more rant territory, but Someone like George Leeman... Walking at 350lb body weight is around as good for you injecting testosterone frequently, your heart can't take kind of stuff. If health, practical strength, and being happy with how you look is your goal, don't follow this man  By all means, appreciate the feats of strength, but why a lot of people would want to mimic what he does is beyond me.edit: My favorite Youtube personality for weightlifting information is easily Sean Nalrwanyj, and I think his perspectives are just logical and truly long term focused, thought out, and realistic to human life. My philosophy on fitness is very similar to his, and I highly recommend checking out his channel. 90% of Youtubers out there make weightlifting the center of their life, and their focus is so set on lifting as much weight, the focus might be on injury prevention, but only as far as to make sure you can go lift next week (instead of actual health), etc. The actual part of lifting the weight is such a small portion of the actual goal of getting strong, getting healthy, getting girls, getting self confidence, getting an attractive body, getting a balanced life... And so many people who make videos are so out of touch with that. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 13 2016 01:41 FFGenerations wrote: yeah i havent got near thinking about progression yet lol. i cant imagine putting on ankle weights and raising my legs above my head lol i'm doing those incline bench situps now too and they're great. it does feel like the dragonflag position/flat bench lets you put a lot more focus on your LOWER abdomen , particularly when you drop your feet towards and below horizontal off the end of the bench. anyway wtvr pushup is different to a flat back bench press coz you dont have 80kg of weight forcing your back into a non-natural perfectly flat position oc.. the song is me trying to figure out comfortably numb timings i finally fucking done it youtube.com/watch?v=bD2uR2bvHu4 also i think i figured out why my hand was busting up every time i used the punch bag/boxing gloves the past 2 months. i cudnt figure it out at all, every time i punched my hand was getting wrecked. i bought some mma gloves and a 2nd (super cheap) boxing glvoes and tried on like 3 different gloves from other people and spent ages wrapping differently and busting my knuckles up without gloves. i think it turns out that after my latest dota break from gym , when i came back to punching again i wasnt actually making a proper fist when i throw punch because my hands werent strong enough to make a fist in the gloves anymore. so i think after ALL this fucking time and bloody knuckles from not using the gloves out of frustration (the mma gloves were unsable also coz they rub) and wasted money i figured it out *off to gym now to try* Are you trying to get into MMA? And mmm, your back might be a tad different (with no or minimal arch), but your rotator cuffs and shoulder position is more or less the same, and that's where the main risk of injury comes from. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20063 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 13 2016 02:19 FFGenerations wrote: WEIRD EXERCISE 2nd one is boring, i would do dragonflags to partial side probably 3rd one is awesome 4th one is the one i think is shit, it doesnt do anything compared to anything else i dont think dragonflags are "isometric".. as you come down the tension moves to your lower abs , and holding form is very difficult by the time you come up so its easily lost at that point and looks like you're just resetting . even this guy looks like hes fucking it up a tiny bit here on the way back up . if you push your legs out straight then this doesnt happen youtu.be/njKXkuhY7_0?t=8 you can also increase your rom by lowering your legs off the end of the bench , doing them from the floor limits your rom a lot afaik I think it's a good exercise. I think it's more static than dynamic, but that's not a bad thing. Your core muscles mainly act to stabilize your back and keep you in neutral spine. That's how you use your abs in every exercise anyway, and working out abs is mostly various holds, I think people just like to take their other strength knowledge of having to have movement to make muscle, and try to apply it to the core. Your front abs and transversus abs don't need much movement, while more so (and also because it's very difficult to have holds that work the obliques, as you need some kind of torsion). Anyway, the more videos I see of Dragonfly's. the more I like them. edit: I've been here for 8 years, and I still keep clicking quote instead of edit on my post, bleh. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On July 13 2016 03:02 FiWiFaKi wrote: Are you trying to get into MMA? And mmm, your back might be a tad different (with no or minimal arch), but your rotator cuffs and shoulder position is more or less the same, and that's where the main risk of injury comes from. Are you saying that pushups are the same for your shoulders/cuff as flat bb bench? They definitely aren't. And abs fail all the time. Why do you think people wear belts on heavy deadlifts, for example? Try doing a set of ten 400+ lb deadlifts with slow strict form and tell me your abs aren't fatigued. I got an actual cramp in my abs last time I deadlifted. But I don't use a belt. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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decafchicken
United States20063 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 13 2016 03:31 IgnE wrote: Are you saying that pushups are the same for your shoulders/cuff as flat bb bench? They definitely aren't. And abs fail all the time. Why do you think people wear belts on heavy deadlifts, for example? Try doing a set of ten 400+ lb deadlifts with slow strict form and tell me your abs aren't fatigued. I think that people are overstating the difference. My shoulders are super tired from yesterday, but I went into my basement, and just loaded up a light bench press and did a couple push-ups to compare the motion, and I do think it's reasonably similar, yes. You just need to make sure you're using bench press form when doing push-ups, my standard push up is a little bit sloppy as I don't make my body tight enough. I'm not stating that they're the same as a fact, I was just doing my rationalizing, and from what I noticed on myself, they do seem rather similar (hence why it was odd to me when Gotunk said it's dangerous to not arch your back for a bench press, and I questioned it not out of hey, you're wrong, but hey, this doesn't line up what I've experienced myself). And mmm, I dunno, 335-345lb deadlift for 4 reps is the highest I've gotten to in the past, but I've definitely never been concerned about my abs failing, and I've not seen others be in the same situation either (again, I'm not talking about stuff that happens once you start going 700lbs+, I'd like to think that most people aren't aiming for that kind of stuff - and from the time I've spent at the gym, that was a very very small population of people). From my experience and from what I've seen, for most people grip starts to go first, and your lower back starts to go second (and locking out the hips). For longer sets without releasing tension between reps, traps can start failing too. I've always done ab work, but there's no compound lift where my abs are remotely close to being exhausted (worked, sure). In my eyes it's the same kind of thing like how you don't really need to workout biceps if strength is what you're after, since for most part, your pulling exercises will train them sufficiently. I imagine that if you did those deadlifts enough, your abs would quickly not be the weak link anymore. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 13 2016 03:39 zulu_nation8 wrote: So I read this article that gluten leads to retaining more fat. I eat quiet a lot of gluten and was wondering if it would make a difference if I cut down as opposed to going gluten-free? I think it's a very new field and it's hard to tell. My viewpoint with any of these things is, try it for a month or two, and see how you feel. Just see how feel, how your body responds to it. Since the research is so new, and people have been eating gluten and still getting fit, it's likely not some massive contributor, but I do think that a big reason of why some people have been shying away from bread besides the calorie density and the paleo mentality is that the body doesn't handle gluten perfectly. It's tough to say how much it impacts health and whatnot since it's only recently that people have started to eat so much gluten with the advent of processed foods. Though to address your question specifically, 100%, eating less gluten is better than eating more gluten, if you make the assumption that gluten is bad. More or less every "bad" substance your body receives gets worse the more of it you give it (whether that's alcohol, smoking, milk, processed foods, red meat), gluten should be no exception. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On July 13 2016 03:48 FiWiFaKi wrote: I think that people are overstating the difference. My shoulders are super tired from yesterday, but I went into my basement, and just loaded up a light bench press and did a couple push-ups to compare the motion, and I do think it's reasonably similar, yes. You just need to make sure you're using bench press form when doing push-ups, my standard push up is a little bit sloppy as I don't make my body tight enough. And mmm, I dunno, 335-345lb deadlift for 4 reps is the highest I've gotten to in the past, but I've definitely never been concerned about my abs failing, and I've not seen others be in the same situation either (again, I'm not talking about stuff that happens once you start going 700lbs+, I'd like to think that most people aren't aiming for that kind of stuff - and from the time I've spent at the gym, that was a very very small population of people). From my experience and from what I've seen, for most people grip starts to go first, and your lower back starts to go second (and locking out the hips). For longer sets without releasing tension between reps, traps can start failing too. I've always done ab work, but there's no compound lift where my abs are remotely close to being exhausted (worked, sure). In my eyes it's the same kind of thing like how you don't really need to workout biceps if strength is what you're after, since for most part, your pulling exercises will train them sufficiently. I imagine that if you did those deadlifts enough, your abs would quickly not be the weak link anymore. Pushups are a closed-chain movement with different scapular movement patterns than a bench press. No one blows out their shoulder doing weighted pushups, but people blow out their shoulders/pecs all the time on bench press. And it's not just a matter of resistance (i.e. bench press tends to be heavier than weighted pushups for advanced lifters). It's the same for squats vs. leg press. People blow out their knees on leg press but not very often on squats, and that's because its open- while squats are closed-chain. Your abs are probably just stronger because almost everyone with a history of casual lifting has stronger front-side muscles (biceps, chest, quads) than rear-side muscles (back, hamstrings) because those are the muscles that you can see in the mirror and that are traditionally admired in the culture (although that's changing with the proliferation of crossfit boxes). Your abs and lower back work in concert to protect your spine during a deadlift. The only reason your lower back is fatiguing first is because it's relatively weaker, probably for the aforementioned reasons. Again, see my comment on why people belt up. It's a way of artificially increasing intrabdominal pressure which is otherwise created by action via the core muscles, including the abs and lower back. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
can confirm that my busted knuckles/hand for the last 2 months is because i wasnt clenching a tight fist when making a punch with the punch gloves. i guess i lost so much grip strength during my latest dota period that i couldnt even figure out what i was doing differently. took so long to figure out , eventually i started googling "what should hand look like inside glove" until i realised i wasnt clenching hard enough to make an actual fist inside it coz of such weak hand strength and so was just busting my fingers on impact every attempt ioi also helps to target your knuckles by pointing your fist downwards/upsidedownwards towards the ground somewhat im not interested in mma, im too unfit for it by 100 miles. i love punching tho (and its amazing for shoulders). if EVER in my life i manage to go more than 3 months of health & fitness then maybe i can consider it, i love jackie chan shit oh yeah i think fiwifaki you mentioned that you eat GUMMY vitamin pills, well i just got a batch and can confirm they are yummy LOL | ||
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
On July 13 2016 02:19 FFGenerations wrote: WEIRD EXERCISE 2nd one is boring, i would do dragonflags to partial side probably 3rd one is awesome 4th one is the one i think is shit, it doesnt do anything compared to anything else i dont think dragonflags are "isometric".. as you come down the tension moves to your lower abs , and holding form is very difficult by the time you come up so its easily lost at that point and looks like you're just resetting . even this guy looks like hes fucking it up a tiny bit here on the way back up . if you push your legs out straight then this doesnt happen youtu.be/njKXkuhY7_0?t=8 you can also increase your rom by lowering your legs off the end of the bench , doing them from the floor limits your rom a lot afaik First exercise is the single best him I have found to simulate the action of your abs during a swuat or dead against a belt and it's the number one thing I credit with keeping me uninjured at a 4 plate squat despite a ton of back/hip issues plaguing me since 2 plates, years ago. As far as boring... Who cares if it's boring, if it works? Isometric means the muscle isn't lengthening or shortening during the lift, it's holding constant. If your abs aren't doing an isometric contraction in dragon flags, you're doing a leg raise, not a dragon flag. @fiwi I would argue that your abs outlasting your lower back either because you specifically train abs and not lower back (mirror muscle syndrome) or because you aren't using your abs properly and your lower back has to compensate. Anyway, when I do train abs it's for two reasons. The first is to help my squat and deadlift, and the second (really more oblique specific) is to protect my back and hips from rugby tackles and rucks. I guess that puts me in the "0.1%" of the lifting population, but I think if you look around a little bit you'll find that part is actually a much bigger percentage, just that a lot of them are misguided. | ||
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