EPTI really like the style he developed later in his career, if he can find in him to find yet another degree of evolution like that (towards even more finesse and less raw athletics) I think he can will whatever he wills, and preserve his body.
NBA Offseason 2014 - Page 69
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I really like the style he developed later in his career, if he can find in him to find yet another degree of evolution like that (towards even more finesse and less raw athletics) I think he can will whatever he wills, and preserve his body. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On July 30 2014 02:33 Xeris wrote: He also willed the Lakers to the 2013 playoffs, carried them almost singlehandedly through the 2nd half of the season. ![[image loading]](http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/640/962/d91.gif) | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
Oh that's right, you still are one of the guys that think the Refs willed the Lakers into the 2013 playoffs. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
On July 30 2014 06:45 Ace wrote: yea, that's right. "willpower" was over 9000 and crushing opponents. rofl. I'm just saying, your condescending reaction is inappropriate considering you were on the "Refs are rigging the game" bandwagon during that run. If you check the stats for the second half of the 2013 season especially after the All-Star break Kobe was carrying the team. Go ahead check them. The games leading up to his Achilles injury are particularly impressive, averaging close to triple double numbers while playing nearly 48 minutes a game. You don't have to use the "willpower" argument if you don't want to, but it was pretty plain to see that the man was fucking beasting during that period. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On July 30 2014 06:45 Ace wrote: yea, that's right. "willpower" was over 9000 and crushing opponents. rofl. There's a difference between saying Kobe "willed" the Lakers into an 8th seed, as opposed to "crushing opponents". I don't think anyone is claiming that Kobe's "willpower" was crushing anyone, but he certainly played a large part (if not the largest part) in the Lakers squeaking into the playoffs. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On July 30 2014 06:51 Ace wrote: Actually Dwight's back getting healthy was the real reason but sure, start posting numbers. I assume you do have numbers? I freely admit that I'm no stats expert, so I don't have any of my own. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that something like plus/minus or win shares shows that Dwight had a bigger impact on the Lakers' wins than Kobe? I could see how Dwight could have been more important to the Lakers since he is able to impact the game on both ends better than Kobe (who was in no-defense mode), but my memory seems to be that Kobe basically became the main scorer and ball handler/facilitator when Nash went out. I know the eyes can fool us all the time, but the impression that I (and I believe most people who watched the games) was that Kobe was carrying the team on offense, including setting Dwight up for a lot of his points. I'm not sure what numbers to look at to determine how that impacts things. The argument would then become something like carrying the offense vs. controlling the paint and defense. I know that Dwight, despite what people were saying, was actually doing a pretty good job on defense and amazingly on the boards during his Lakers season, which makes me hesitate to make any definitive statements about who did more to help the team win. The eye test and impressions definitely favor Kobe for most people though. I believe the stats also showed that he had a pretty amazing season apart from his lackadaisical defense. I do have to say that my recollection about Dwight that season also includes him looking many times like someone who clearly didn't want to be there, which I think should factor into the discussion. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
 @Xyric: Dwight was not good the first half of the season. Towards the second half when he was getting healthier he was outright beasting. Most people remember the first half because the team looked like such a disaster and he was part of it. When Nash went down and Kobe started using more possessions many people equated their wins to him. While Kobe was good, it was also a combination of the schedule and Dwight getting healthy. The Lakers were also getting some absurdly ridiculous calls going their way but w/e. Point is Kobe's "will to win" has little to do with it. He just played better. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On July 30 2014 07:02 Ace wrote: Right - Kobe playing well is the reason. His "will" has little impact on the team doing well. It's not like the other team is sitting there like "shit, Kobe's will is so good we just have to sit here and take it". His will to win isn't as great as everyone else's. Not exactly on point, but I do wonder how much the mysticism surrounding Kobe and the force of his personality (which I think can't be denied) impact opponents during games. Whether it's deserved or not, many players (particularly younger ones) do see Kobe as this force of nature on the court who can make the seemingly impossible possible. At some point, I could easily see opponents letting Kobe get into their heads simply because he has this ridiculous confidence/self-belief, regardless of whether it's rooted in reality or not. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On July 30 2014 07:11 ZenithM wrote: That's usually what we mean by "will them into the playoffs" lol. He played well enough to compensate for other weaknesses and to bring his team to the playoff. Were you imagining some kind of manga-esque stuff? :D you dont actually believe true goats like kobe and mj can will their team into winning? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Who else on this thread plays games like NBA 2K? Am I the only loser who enjoys playing that? :D | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
Of course, D'Antoni was a pushover though and didn't know how to make sure he gave him the necessary rest.. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On July 30 2014 07:12 Ace wrote: With Xeris you've gotta take it that way. He probably could see Kobe's aura literally pulsating on the court @Xyric: Dwight was not good the first half of the season. Towards the second half when he was getting healthier he was outright beasting. Most people remember the first half because the team looked like such a disaster and he was part of it. When Nash went down and Kobe started using more possessions many people equated their wins to him. While Kobe was good, it was also a combination of the schedule and Dwight getting healthy. The Lakers were also getting some absurdly ridiculous calls going their way but w/e. Point is Kobe's "will to win" has little to do with it. He just played better. I think many people equate "will to win" with the ability to play better in situations where other players may not, i.e. game on the line, opponent has a large lead, player himself is injured/exhausted, etc. I'm not saying it's true for everyone, but I do believe that some people who claim Kobe "willed" the Lakers to win games are referring to his ability to raise his level of play when his team needed him to in order to win games in a way that they believe very few other players can. I know that my usage of the term "willing" essentially boils down to that, similar to the term "clutch" being associated with a player's ability or tendency to raise his level of play in high pressure situations. Beyond just his on-court play, I do think that many players in Kobe's position may not have fought as hard for what many considered to be a lost season after Nash went down and Dwight revealed himself to be very limited by his back injury. I don't think many players would have been willing to or been capable of adjusting their style of play as much as Kobe did to essentially become the team's de facto PG when all of their PGs got injured, particularly a player who had been playing a very different style throughout a very long and established career. I do think that Kobe's borderline insane competitiveness and self-confidence came into play by allowing his teammates to believe they had a chance to win every game, no matter who was out or how tough the opponent was. I have always respected Kobe's willingness to play through injuries that would floor most other players, even when it was probably not a great idea to (i.e. not getting surgery on his finger, shooting the FT after tearing his achilles), and I think it pushes his teammates to do the same. I'm not sure Dwight fights as hard to play through his back injury or to come back from it if not for Kobe. Kobe brought all of those things like very few can, for better or worse. Anyway, there are no numbers or stats to back up those things, but I think most Lakers fans consider those traits when assessing Kobe and declaring that he "willed" or "carried" the Lakers in some way or another. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
and I think Ace and some of the other people have different definition of what "willed" means. Fuck skip Bayless for comming up with this shit. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13537 Posts
Not like it was rigged but the Lakers received a lot of the rub of the green in that end of season run.. | ||
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