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On July 19 2014 06:50 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 06:13 forsooth wrote:On July 18 2014 23:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
What if they trade for Love and none of them play defense but they win every game 150-130 The Suns were doing that back when they were running and gunning with Nash/Stoudemire/Marion and a half dozen shooters but they always got shut down by more solid teams in the playoffs. Blaming the run and gun style for the Suns' inability to win a championship is wrong. Plenty of good teams, like the Pacers last year and the Bulls the past few years, fail to win championships but nobody is blaming their style for it.
The Pacers haven't won because they're horribly inconsistent, and the Bulls haven't won because their best player can't stay on the court. And even then they weren't going to get past Miami because the Heat were able to play a slower, defense-oriented game but with better players than the other two teams.
Blaming run and gun is totally correct, seeing as all the playoff teams that have relied on it over the last 20 years have failed to win a title while teams that can slow it down, play half court, and defend when it matters have won every year. The Mavs were putting up 55-60 wins a year when they were running and gunning with Nash and Dirk and the Suns started doing the same thing when Nash went there. The Nets played that style with Kidd and got crushed by the Spurs and Lakers in the finals. All those teams inevitably ran into a brick wall when they went up against teams that simply refused to let them run and put up tons of points.
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The Spurs have been running a modified run N gun system since they got murdered in 2009/10. They have been pushing the pace on offense for years. After they got destroyed in 2012 because their defense sucked, they retooled the defense by getting Kawhi and Splitter becoming a better defender - while keeping the same offense.
The reason the Suns lost isn't because of their style. They didn't have the best players to put next to Marion on D, and a couple of lucky shots/stupid suspensions cost them beating San Antonio 2 years. I'd be interested in hearing the playoff teams that have run that style "in the last 20 years" as the 3 most prominent I know of are Phoenix, Denver, and SA all in the post 2004 era. The Mavs did not run the same style as the D'Antoni Suns.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i don't know if playing the d'antoni offense system necessarily precludes a team from having good defense, but d'antoni himself hasnt figured out how to coach defense.
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Well he's not as bad as people make him out to be. He just sacrifices defensive concepts in an effort to get as many easy shots as possible. He also tends to have rosters littered with poor defensive players. It's actually not a bad strategy as just being slightly above average defensively with a high powered offense almost got him two rings.
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So Bledsoe rejects Sun's offer, where will he go?
edit: But Bledsoe isn't a true PG, frankly he's a better 2. Although he can penetrate, still leave that to a true PG.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On July 19 2014 09:15 Ace wrote:
Well he's not as bad as people make him out to be. He just sacrifices defensive concepts in an effort to get as many easy shots as possible. He also tends to have rosters littered with poor defensive players. It's actually not a bad strategy as just being slightly above average defensively with a high powered offense almost got him two rings.
well to knicks fans he's not primarily remembered for his suns days.
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On July 19 2014 08:49 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 06:50 andrewlt wrote:On July 19 2014 06:13 forsooth wrote:On July 18 2014 23:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
What if they trade for Love and none of them play defense but they win every game 150-130 The Suns were doing that back when they were running and gunning with Nash/Stoudemire/Marion and a half dozen shooters but they always got shut down by more solid teams in the playoffs. Blaming the run and gun style for the Suns' inability to win a championship is wrong. Plenty of good teams, like the Pacers last year and the Bulls the past few years, fail to win championships but nobody is blaming their style for it. The Pacers haven't won because they're horribly inconsistent, and the Bulls haven't won because their best player can't stay on the court. And even then they weren't going to get past Miami because the Heat were able to play a slower, defense-oriented game but with better players than the other two teams. Blaming run and gun is totally correct, seeing as all the playoff teams that have relied on it over the last 20 years have failed to win a title while teams that can slow it down, play half court, and defend when it matters have won every year. The Mavs were putting up 55-60 wins a year when they were running and gunning with Nash and Dirk and the Suns started doing the same thing when Nash went there. The Nets played that style with Kidd and got crushed by the Spurs and Lakers in the finals. All those teams inevitably ran into a brick wall when they went up against teams that simply refused to let them run and put up tons of points.
You sound like a casual basketball fan who only listens to hot sports takes. You're actually claiming the Heat play a slower, more defense-oriented game than the Pacers and Bulls? Are you joking or trolling?
The Spurs have been a run and gun team for the past 5 years. They dismantled their old style of play after a slew of early playoffs exits after their last championship against Cleveland. The Heat played a trapping style of defense that thrived on fast breaks off turnovers. That team was designed to have Lebron attacking on the open court as much as possible, not slowing the game down. Pretty much every championship contender runs now.
Again, this sounds too much like a hot sports take. You make excuses for teams like the Bulls and Pacers who run a slow it down offense but blame the run and gun for the Suns' woes. The Suns, during the run and gun era, sold their first round draft pick for cash almost every year because of their cheapskate owner. That includes the pick when many draft analysts had them picking Rajon Rondo. They also had a string of unfortunate events like the Joe Johnson injury and the Robert Horry body shot that lead to Stoudemire's and Diaw's suspensions.
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On July 19 2014 09:21 Disregard wrote:
So Bledsoe rejects Sun's offer, where will he go?
edit: But Bledsoe isn't a true PG, frankly he's a better 2. Although he can penetrate, still leave that to a true PG.
If you play him at the 2 you better have someone pretty good defensively at the 1...Which is no PG in the league.
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Disregard was just temp banned for 2 days by GMarshal.
That account was created on 2007-03-14 22:07:43 and had 8825 posts.
Reason: The mod note demands neutral sources. that is not a neutral source.
ooooooo
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On July 19 2014 10:39 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +
Disregard was just temp banned for 2 days by GMarshal.
That account was created on 2007-03-14 22:07:43 and had 8825 posts.
Reason: The mod note demands neutral sources. that is not a neutral source.
ooooooo
must be that ukraine thread lulz
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The Heat's aggressive defense and fastbreak potential notwithstanding, they played pretty slow in the Big 3 Era (as measured by number of offensive possessions). The 2011-2012 year was their fastest and they were only at 14. Last year they were 27th. You could argue that a good defense limits your own number of possessions.
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I like how the Lakers' Plan B was to bring back the exact same roster except swapping out Farmar for Jeremy Lin. They also replaced Gasol with Ed Davis, and drafted Randle/Clarkson...
So, I guess Plan B for them is to win the 2015 lottery and not give their pick to the Suns. #solidplanning
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On July 19 2014 14:58 Xeris wrote:
I like how the Lakers' Plan B was to bring back the exact same roster except swapping out Farmar for Jeremy Lin. They also replaced Gasol with Ed Davis, and drafted Randle/Clarkson...
So, I guess Plan B for them is to win the 2015 lottery and not give their pick to the Suns. #solidplanning
other than not getting IT2 and buying boozer (even if it costed nothing), i dont think the lakers did all that horrible in the offseason. what would be your plan B then?
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The Lakers got Lin and a first-rounder for nothing and they don't have to commit to Lin at all, they got Swaggy for 5M per year, they got Boozer for cheap and Julius Randle is a pretty good pick at #7. Ed davis for 1 Million is kind of ridiculous as well. They have Flexibility and capspace in the future. For a team in rebuild mode their off-season was pretty damn good.
Kobe missed 76 freakin games last year. If he is healthy this season they will still do ok. It's like you think they won 27 games with Kobe...
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I can see the Lakers winning 40 games+ if everyone's healthy. They might make 8th seed too if other teams are hit with some injuries.
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I don't mind what the Lakers are doing. Loading up with short contracts until they hit a big name in FA is sound strategy from their end. They'll be pretty rubbish again this year but I'm sure they'll be active in pressing for a big name star.
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EPT
