|
On October 14 2014 10:48 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 10:38 cLutZ wrote:Umm...the guy is stupid because eliminating guaranteed contracts also does nothing to affect the owners' bottom lines because the revenue split between players and ownership is unaffected. Just like in the max contract debate it is just redistributing the same amount of money amongst players. In fact, even the salary cap of each team is meaningless with regards to the owners vs. players. The only things that matter in the actual negotiation (and the owners win them because they know this) is the revenue split, and what types of income get counted as part of said split. All the things like salary cap, max contracts, salary floors, revenue sharing, etc are all just debates either between different classes of owners or between different classes of players. TLDR: Article is wrong about the basics, and is just an idiot saying things that would make redditors get angry. Without guarantees you can just cut players at any point once they stop producing at a certain level. You can turn a 20/4 into a 3/1 and save money that way. Remember owners don't have to spend all of the money by the cap  That part isn't solely about the money but about job security.
Wrong. The owners as a group have to spend 50% of leaguewide revenue on player salaries regardless of anything that happens. They give the players, on the whole, that much in salary if every team exceeds the cap, or if every team is at the salary floor. They cap and floor just affect how big of a slice of that 50% that each team pays, and each player's salary figure is an approximation, which actually just entitles them to a slice of the the 50%. A portion of each players contract is held in escrow during the season as a guard against the NBA revenues being lower than expected. If they are greater than expected each player's compensation is increased pro-rata.
And yes it is about job security, however the owners dont care financially about that, what non-guaranteed contracts really does is lets owners construct more productive rosters. One more thing is that guaranteed contracts favors veterans that have a deal over rookies/free agents that dont, which once again is just changing how the pizza is sliced, not changing the size of the pizza.
|
Alternatively you can end up with amare or Michael redd.
Maybe not kill max contracts but they need a injured players list or some cap concession like that.
|
On October 14 2014 10:55 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 10:48 Ace wrote:On October 14 2014 10:38 cLutZ wrote:Umm...the guy is stupid because eliminating guaranteed contracts also does nothing to affect the owners' bottom lines because the revenue split between players and ownership is unaffected. Just like in the max contract debate it is just redistributing the same amount of money amongst players. In fact, even the salary cap of each team is meaningless with regards to the owners vs. players. The only things that matter in the actual negotiation (and the owners win them because they know this) is the revenue split, and what types of income get counted as part of said split. All the things like salary cap, max contracts, salary floors, revenue sharing, etc are all just debates either between different classes of owners or between different classes of players. TLDR: Article is wrong about the basics, and is just an idiot saying things that would make redditors get angry. Without guarantees you can just cut players at any point once they stop producing at a certain level. You can turn a 20/4 into a 3/1 and save money that way. Remember owners don't have to spend all of the money by the cap That part isn't solely about the money but about job security. Wrong. The owners as a group have to spend 50% of leaguewide revenue on player salaries regardless of anything that happens. They give the players, on the whole, that much in salary if every team exceeds the cap, or if every team is at the salary floor. They cap and floor just affect how big of a slice of that 50% that each team pays, and each player's salary figure is an approximation, which actually just entitles them to a slice of the the 50%. A portion of each players contract is held in escrow during the season as a guard against the NBA revenues being lower than expected. If they are greater than expected each player's compensation is increased pro-rata. And yes it is about job security, however the owners dont care financially about that, what non-guaranteed contracts really does is lets owners construct more productive rosters. One more thing is that guaranteed contracts favors veterans that have a deal over rookies/free agents that dont, which once again is just changing how the pizza is sliced, not changing the size of the pizza.
How does this stop an individual team from just meeting the salary floor and carrying cap space? Explain.
|
I don't want to get into a discussion about this guy apart from saying that the flipside to "it’s seems to be the default understanding that, no matter how much you make, you deserve it. And everyone else is just pushing their grubby paws in your face asking for handouts." is "it's ok to appropriate billionaire's money cause they don't deserve it anyway".
As far as Cuban's suggestion, I think that's a necessary change and not even just as a concession to the owners. If some players are really going to be worth 40 or 50 million dollars, then giving that much money is either risky or stupid, depending on how you look at it. Even if the max was removed, owners would be reluctant to pay that much because of the possibility for catastrophe...or someone would and would eventually get burned, Amar'e style, with half of their money in one player. There obviously can be better and worse contracts. There could be certain amounts of money guaranteed and different provisions for performance and injury.
You could only make non guaranteed contracts possible after a certain dollar amount, but this could also be helpful to veterans bouncing around teams. Take Michael Beasely right now. With all the sorry guys at the end of benches, don't you think Memphis or someone would keep him around a little longer if they knew they could cut him and pro rata his contract at any point?
|
On October 14 2014 11:00 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 10:55 cLutZ wrote:On October 14 2014 10:48 Ace wrote:On October 14 2014 10:38 cLutZ wrote:Umm...the guy is stupid because eliminating guaranteed contracts also does nothing to affect the owners' bottom lines because the revenue split between players and ownership is unaffected. Just like in the max contract debate it is just redistributing the same amount of money amongst players. In fact, even the salary cap of each team is meaningless with regards to the owners vs. players. The only things that matter in the actual negotiation (and the owners win them because they know this) is the revenue split, and what types of income get counted as part of said split. All the things like salary cap, max contracts, salary floors, revenue sharing, etc are all just debates either between different classes of owners or between different classes of players. TLDR: Article is wrong about the basics, and is just an idiot saying things that would make redditors get angry. Without guarantees you can just cut players at any point once they stop producing at a certain level. You can turn a 20/4 into a 3/1 and save money that way. Remember owners don't have to spend all of the money by the cap That part isn't solely about the money but about job security. Wrong. The owners as a group have to spend 50% of leaguewide revenue on player salaries regardless of anything that happens. They give the players, on the whole, that much in salary if every team exceeds the cap, or if every team is at the salary floor. They cap and floor just affect how big of a slice of that 50% that each team pays, and each player's salary figure is an approximation, which actually just entitles them to a slice of the the 50%. A portion of each players contract is held in escrow during the season as a guard against the NBA revenues being lower than expected. If they are greater than expected each player's compensation is increased pro-rata. And yes it is about job security, however the owners dont care financially about that, what non-guaranteed contracts really does is lets owners construct more productive rosters. One more thing is that guaranteed contracts favors veterans that have a deal over rookies/free agents that dont, which once again is just changing how the pizza is sliced, not changing the size of the pizza. How does this stop an individual team from just meeting the salary floor and carrying cap space? Explain.
It doesn't. That just means that that particular owner will pay less into the pot and the 29 other owners will pay in more. It has no overall affect on the amount of money the players make.
|
On October 14 2014 11:32 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 11:00 Ace wrote:On October 14 2014 10:55 cLutZ wrote:On October 14 2014 10:48 Ace wrote:On October 14 2014 10:38 cLutZ wrote:Umm...the guy is stupid because eliminating guaranteed contracts also does nothing to affect the owners' bottom lines because the revenue split between players and ownership is unaffected. Just like in the max contract debate it is just redistributing the same amount of money amongst players. In fact, even the salary cap of each team is meaningless with regards to the owners vs. players. The only things that matter in the actual negotiation (and the owners win them because they know this) is the revenue split, and what types of income get counted as part of said split. All the things like salary cap, max contracts, salary floors, revenue sharing, etc are all just debates either between different classes of owners or between different classes of players. TLDR: Article is wrong about the basics, and is just an idiot saying things that would make redditors get angry. Without guarantees you can just cut players at any point once they stop producing at a certain level. You can turn a 20/4 into a 3/1 and save money that way. Remember owners don't have to spend all of the money by the cap That part isn't solely about the money but about job security. Wrong. The owners as a group have to spend 50% of leaguewide revenue on player salaries regardless of anything that happens. They give the players, on the whole, that much in salary if every team exceeds the cap, or if every team is at the salary floor. They cap and floor just affect how big of a slice of that 50% that each team pays, and each player's salary figure is an approximation, which actually just entitles them to a slice of the the 50%. A portion of each players contract is held in escrow during the season as a guard against the NBA revenues being lower than expected. If they are greater than expected each player's compensation is increased pro-rata. And yes it is about job security, however the owners dont care financially about that, what non-guaranteed contracts really does is lets owners construct more productive rosters. One more thing is that guaranteed contracts favors veterans that have a deal over rookies/free agents that dont, which once again is just changing how the pizza is sliced, not changing the size of the pizza. How does this stop an individual team from just meeting the salary floor and carrying cap space? Explain. It doesn't. That just means that that particular owner will pay less into the pot and the 29 other owners will pay in more. It has no overall affect on the amount of money the players make.
There has to be a limit to it, though. Wouldn't want an owner out of the playoff chase to just cut contracts whenever they feel like it, which would distribute the costs to their fellow owners.
|
That is why the owners impose a salary floor...
|
So Bucks at Cle tonight with Giannis starting at the point. This could be interesting.
|
I'm doing a 12 man Fantasy League 9 category rotisserie off of the ESPN Fantasy Rankings. Who do you guys think I should pick for best value?
Choosing 2 Power Forwards, Draft pick #11 and #14:
Serge Ibaka, Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Chris Bosh
Picking 2 Guards out of these guys, Draft pick #35 and 38:
Eric Bledsoe, Kemba Walker, Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Victor Oladipo, Klay Thompson, Jrue Holiday
Picking 2 Forwards, Draft pick 59 and 62:
Jabari Parker, David Lee, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan
Picking 2 Guards, Draft pick #83 and 86:
Darren Collison, Arron Afflalo, Jose Calderon, George Hill, Isaiah Thomas
Picking 1 Center, Draft pick #110:
Larry Sanders, Andrew Bogut, Omer Asik, Anderson Varejao
Picking 2 players, Draft pick #131 and #134:
Spencer Hawes, Channing Frye, Timofey Mozgov, Gorgui Dieng, Paul Pierce
And my last draft pick #155:
Jodie Meeks, Randy Foye, Marcus Smart, Kelly Olynyk, Evan Turner
Thank you in advance whoever helps me!
|
On October 14 2014 13:14 cLutZ wrote:
That is why the owners impose a salary floor...
Floor only does so much. A way over the cap team like the Nets has plenty of room to cut before they hit the floor.
|
Yes, and every dollar they cut still goes to players, just other owners with pay more. Good God, how many times do we need to explain the cba.?
|
That's what I was saying. The NBA wouldn't want certain owners to be able to distribute their costs to other owners whenever they feel like it.
|
United States4471 Posts
On October 15 2014 00:03 LightningEdge wrote:
I'm doing a 12 man Fantasy League 9 category rotisserie off of the ESPN Fantasy Rankings. Who do you guys think I should pick for best value?
This kind of analysis is very difficult because each pick depends heavily on the pick(s) that are made before it. You can only pre-plan a draft so much because you have to be able to react to what happens during the draft. People can discuss overall 9-cat value, but that won't mean much outside of the first few rounds because you'll have to address your team needs and particular team strategy (i.e. punted categories). Also, this thread really isn't the place for fantasy basketball advice, but it's fine since there isn't a fantasy bball thread set up this season.
With that said, I'll give my two cents on how I generally rank these players assuming no punting and the standard 9-cat (PTS, 3PTM, REB, AST, STL, BLK, TO, FG%, FT%).
Choosing 2 Power Forwards, Draft pick #11 and #14:
Serge Ibaka, Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Chris Bosh
Love, Ibaka and Aldridge are the best overall value. Love may see a dip in production this season playing next to Lebron and Kyrie, but he's the type of player who doesn't need to dominate the ball to produce. He excels at playing off the ball, spot up shooting, passing, and rebounding, all of which should not be affected much at all by his new teammates. Ibaka is a standard late 1st/early 2nd round pick because of his elite shotblocking and efficiency (%s and TOs), but you have to keep in mind that taking him puts you at a significant disadvantage early in the PTS category since most players taken that early are elite scorers. Plus, some people don't really care much at all about the TO category and a good amount of his value comes from it. One could also argue there's some uncertainty of how Ibaka will be affected by the loss of Durant since his scoring is reliant upon being set up by others. Aldridge should repeat his production from last season as neither his team situation or role has changed in any significant way.
The dark horse pick would be Blake, but his poor production in STL and BLK have always kept him just out of this range and there's nothing to suggest that those numbers will improve this season so far. It's highly unlikely that Bosh ever returns to his pre-MIA days at this point in his career, which is what it'd take for him to be deserving of being picked this early.
Picking 2 Guards out of these guys, Draft pick #35 and 38:
Eric Bledsoe, Kemba Walker, Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Victor Oladipo, Klay Thompson, Jrue Holiday
Out of these players, I'd go with Bledsoe and Klay. Bledsoe flashed 2nd round potential when healthy last season and Klay looks primed to have a breakout season after a good showing with Team USA this summer.
Kobe and Rose are still health risks that will likely be limited by their injuries, and likely have to take games off throughout the season. Oladipo has potential, but hasn't shown production at this level yet. Jrue is like Kobe and Rose, but with a lower ceiling. Kemba's FG% hit keeps his value below this point and his usage may drop with Lance coming in and taking over a lot of the ballhandling.
Picking 2 Forwards, Draft pick 59 and 62:
Jabari Parker, David Lee, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan
The safe picks are Pau and Duncan, as both are proven producers who, despite their age, showed this level of production last year. Pau's usage and PT might be limited with his smaller role and Taj behind him, but that may actually be a blessing because it'll keep him healthy and allow him to play his best whenever he is on the floor. Plus, the early signs in the preseason are very good. Duncan is just Duncan, nuff said.
Jabari would be the upside pick, but I consider it a major gamble at this point in his career because he isn't very efficient (FG% and FT%), isn't a great 3pt shooter, doesn't get dimes, and isn't known for his defensive numbers. Plus, that team is so young and has no solid pieces to lean on, which means they'll likely be inconsistent and struggle often. Then again, they could somehow turn into the PHO of last season, but I find it pretty unlikely.
Lee is solid choice, but he's better suited for a punt BLK build and has his own injury concerns. Plus, GS looked pretty good with Draymond playing as a small ball PF and may look to go with it more often this season.
Picking 2 Guards, Draft pick #83 and 86:
Darren Collison, Arron Afflalo, Jose Calderon, George Hill, Isaiah Thomas
I like Hill and Calderon out of this group. Calderon is going into a great situation where his skills (3pt shooting and efficient ballhandling) will be put to good use and he has no real competition for PT. Hill is going to have to produce with the injury to PG and loss of Lance, and he's shown himself capable of producing even better than this range before. He won't give you great AST numbers, but he's efficient and can produce across the board. Also has no competition for minutes or usage.
Collison is someone some people are high on, but I'm not one of them. He hasn't played like a starting caliber PG in years, and he hasn't really impressed so far in the preseason. Cousins and Gay are high usage guys for their positions, and it's unclear what the Kings are building there. However, he will get every chance to shine since so much was made of him coming in to replace Isaiah. Afflalo's role will be smaller in DEN than it was in ORL, and his defensive numbers have never been very impressive despite his reputation as a defensive guard.
Picking 1 Center, Draft pick #110:
Larry Sanders, Andrew Bogut, Omer Asik, Anderson Varejao
Sanders and Bogut are the better options because of their potential production. Sanders was producing 3rd round value just a season ago, and MIL is still paying him too much to give up on him. Bogut has produced well while at GS and has only been limited by his injuries. The missed games should be less painful in a roto league where you can sub someone in behind him when he's out.
Asik is a two category producer with very limited upside and bad FT%. He won't have the ball in his hands much at all with all the other much better offensive options on this team. Varejao hasn't been able to stay healthy in forever, will have a significantly reduced role with such talented teammates, and will be competing with Tristan Thompson for minutes all season.
Picking 2 players, Draft pick #131 and #134:
Spencer Hawes, Channing Frye, Timofey Mozgov, Gorgui Dieng, Paul Pierce
And my last draft pick #155:
Jodie Meeks, Randy Foye, Marcus Smart, Kelly Olynyk, Evan Turner
Thank you in advance whoever helps me!
Too lazy to finish up the last few sets, but they're a matter of taste at this point. I want to reiterate that it's very risky to plan out a draft in this way because you don't know what will happen as it goes on. You don't want to lock yourself into drafting certain positions at certain times or assume certain players will be available at certain times. It's more important to know the strengths and weaknesses of the players, understand team building strategies, and keep an eye on what the other teams are doing with their builds.
|
On October 15 2014 03:10 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 00:03 LightningEdge wrote:
I'm doing a 12 man Fantasy League 9 category rotisserie off of the ESPN Fantasy Rankings. Who do you guys think I should pick for best value? This kind of analysis is very difficult because each pick depends heavily on the pick(s) that are made before it. You can only pre-plan a draft so much because you have to be able to react to what happens during the draft. People can discuss overall 9-cat value, but that won't mean much outside of the first few rounds because you'll have to address your team needs and particular team strategy (i.e. punted categories). Also, this thread really isn't the place for fantasy basketball advice, but it's fine since there isn't a fantasy bball thread set up this season. + Show Spoiler +With that said, I'll give my two cents on how I generally rank these players assuming no punting and the standard 9-cat (PTS, 3PTM, REB, AST, STL, BLK, TO, FG%, FT%). Choosing 2 Power Forwards, Draft pick #11 and #14:
Serge Ibaka, Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Chris Bosh Love, Ibaka and Aldridge are the best overall value. Love may see a dip in production this season playing next to Lebron and Kyrie, but he's the type of player who doesn't need to dominate the ball to produce. He excels at playing off the ball, spot up shooting, passing, and rebounding, all of which should not be affected much at all by his new teammates. Ibaka is a standard late 1st/early 2nd round pick because of his elite shotblocking and efficiency (%s and TOs), but you have to keep in mind that taking him puts you at a significant disadvantage early in the PTS category since most players taken that early are elite scorers. Plus, some people don't really care much at all about the TO category and a good amount of his value comes from it. One could also argue there's some uncertainty of how Ibaka will be affected by the loss of Durant since his scoring is reliant upon being set up by others. Aldridge should repeat his production from last season as neither his team situation or role has changed in any significant way. The dark horse pick would be Blake, but his poor production in STL and BLK have always kept him just out of this range and there's nothing to suggest that those numbers will improve this season so far. It's highly unlikely that Bosh ever returns to his pre-MIA days at this point in his career, which is what it'd take for him to be deserving of being picked this early. Picking 2 Guards out of these guys, Draft pick #35 and 38:
Eric Bledsoe, Kemba Walker, Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Victor Oladipo, Klay Thompson, Jrue Holiday Out of these players, I'd go with Bledsoe and Klay. Bledsoe flashed 2nd round potential when healthy last season and Klay looks primed to have a breakout season after a good showing with Team USA this summer. Kobe and Rose are still health risks that will likely be limited by their injuries, and likely have to take games off throughout the season. Oladipo has potential, but hasn't shown production at this level yet. Jrue is like Kobe and Rose, but with a lower ceiling. Kemba's FG% hit keeps his value below this point and his usage may drop with Lance coming in and taking over a lot of the ballhandling. Picking 2 Forwards, Draft pick 59 and 62:
Jabari Parker, David Lee, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan The safe picks are Pau and Duncan, as both are proven producers who, despite their age, showed this level of production last year. Pau's usage and PT might be limited with his smaller role and Taj behind him, but that may actually be a blessing because it'll keep him healthy and allow him to play his best whenever he is on the floor. Plus, the early signs in the preseason are very good. Duncan is just Duncan, nuff said. Jabari would be the upside pick, but I consider it a major gamble at this point in his career because he isn't very efficient (FG% and FT%), isn't a great 3pt shooter, doesn't get dimes, and isn't known for his defensive numbers. Plus, that team is so young and has no solid pieces to lean on, which means they'll likely be inconsistent and struggle often. Then again, they could somehow turn into the PHO of last season, but I find it pretty unlikely. Lee is solid choice, but he's better suited for a punt BLK build and has his own injury concerns. Plus, GS looked pretty good with Draymond playing as a small ball PF and may look to go with it more often this season. Picking 2 Guards, Draft pick #83 and 86:
Darren Collison, Arron Afflalo, Jose Calderon, George Hill, Isaiah Thomas I like Hill and Calderon out of this group. Calderon is going into a great situation where his skills (3pt shooting and efficient ballhandling) will be put to good use and he has no real competition for PT. Hill is going to have to produce with the injury to PG and loss of Lance, and he's shown himself capable of producing even better than this range before. He won't give you great AST numbers, but he's efficient and can produce across the board. Also has no competition for minutes or usage. Collison is someone some people are high on, but I'm not one of them. He hasn't played like a starting caliber PG in years, and he hasn't really impressed so far in the preseason. Cousins and Gay are high usage guys for their positions, and it's unclear what the Kings are building there. However, he will get every chance to shine since so much was made of him coming in to replace Isaiah. Afflalo's role will be smaller in DEN than it was in ORL, and his defensive numbers have never been very impressive despite his reputation as a defensive guard. Picking 1 Center, Draft pick #110:
Larry Sanders, Andrew Bogut, Omer Asik, Anderson Varejao Sanders and Bogut are the better options because of their potential production. Sanders was producing 3rd round value just a season ago, and MIL is still paying him too much to give up on him. Bogut has produced well while at GS and has only been limited by his injuries. The missed games should be less painful in a roto league where you can sub someone in behind him when he's out. Asik is a two category producer with very limited upside and bad FT%. He won't have the ball in his hands much at all with all the other much better offensive options on this team. Varejao hasn't been able to stay healthy in forever, will have a significantly reduced role with such talented teammates, and will be competing with Tristan Thompson for minutes all season. Picking 2 players, Draft pick #131 and #134:
Spencer Hawes, Channing Frye, Timofey Mozgov, Gorgui Dieng, Paul Pierce
And my last draft pick #155:
Jodie Meeks, Randy Foye, Marcus Smart, Kelly Olynyk, Evan Turner
Thank you in advance whoever helps me!
Too lazy to finish up the last few sets, but they're a matter of taste at this point. I want to reiterate that it's very risky to plan out a draft in this way because you don't know what will happen as it goes on. You don't want to lock yourself into drafting certain positions at certain times or assume certain players will be available at certain times. It's more important to know the strengths and weaknesses of the players, understand team building strategies, and keep an eye on what the other teams are doing with their builds.
Wow thanks a lot for taking the time to write that up. I learned a lot about how I should approach a fantasy league in a different light and a lot of insight on these players. This is now my second time playing in a fantasy league and I just thought that as long as I chose sleepers who had potential to perform better than their designated rank I would be fine. And if my first choices out of the groupie were taken, I would just pick the next guy on the list. I didn't really want to punt anything and I felt most of the players I listed did not have major weaknesses. But you are completely right how players will have weaknesses and I should build a team from the previous player I pick and so on. I will readjust my approach to this league from your insight. Thank you!
|
Perhaps I don't know how fantasy basketball works, but I know from my experience with baseball and football that activity (especially in Roto) is extremely important. There's a strong correlation between the teams that hustle the hardest and the teams that perform well.
Out of curiosity, why are you forced to take a player at each position with each of those picks? Is that how fantasy basketball works?
|
what's going on with fantasy this year? I can set it up if no one else is.
|
On October 15 2014 04:05 AgentW wrote:
Perhaps I don't know how fantasy basketball works, but I know from my experience with baseball and football that activity (especially in Roto) is extremely important. There's a strong correlation between the teams that hustle the hardest and the teams that perform well.
Out of curiosity, why are you forced to take a player at each position with each of those picks? Is that how fantasy basketball works?
Yeah you are right about how the activity of a player, how many games they actually do play in a season, is extremely important in this type of Roto league.
Well in basketball fantasy league, you have to fill a spot for each position (PG, SG, SF, PF, C), and then fill 2 more generalized slots (G and F) and then you could fill your other 3 spots with any position. Totaling 10 players in all to fill 820 NBA season games. You also get 3 bench players in case your main crew misses games. I'm guessing there is a lot more freedom with the positions in fantasy basketball compared to baseball where you would have to fill all the unique 9(?) positions in baseball. Also in basketball, some players can play multiple positions which gives way more freedom.
But since I already know I am the 11th pick out of 12 teams, I was planning ahead and looking at the projected ESPN rankings that the people in my league will rely on when they make their choices. And it so happened that around when I have to draft a player, that players who have the same position, were grouped up. So I thought I could pick the best player out of the groupie that had the most potential in the actual season compared to their predicted ESPN projected ranking. I wasn't really forced to take a player at each position at a certain time in the draft, but I still have to make sure I have enough players for certain positions and make sure I can fill the whole season.
Sorry in advance if none of this made sense.
|
On October 15 2014 01:25 andrewlt wrote:
That's what I was saying. The NBA wouldn't want certain owners to be able to distribute their costs to other owners whenever they feel like it.
Like I said, it's an inter-owner struggle which is why they throw these things out to distract the players who are generally incompetent and hire bafoons as well.
|
On October 15 2014 04:29 LightningEdge wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 04:05 AgentW wrote:
Perhaps I don't know how fantasy basketball works, but I know from my experience with baseball and football that activity (especially in Roto) is extremely important. There's a strong correlation between the teams that hustle the hardest and the teams that perform well.
Out of curiosity, why are you forced to take a player at each position with each of those picks? Is that how fantasy basketball works? Yeah you are right about how the activity of a player, how many games they actually do play in a season, is extremely important in this type of Roto league. Well in basketball fantasy league, you have to fill a spot for each position (PG, SG, SF, PF, C), and then fill 2 more generalized slots (G and F) and then you could fill your other 3 spots with any position. Totaling 10 players in all to fill 820 NBA season games. You also get 3 bench players in case your main crew misses games. I'm guessing there is a lot more freedom with the positions in fantasy basketball compared to baseball where you would have to fill all the unique 9(?) positions in baseball. Also in basketball, some players can play multiple positions which gives way more freedom. But since I already know I am the 11th pick out of 12 teams, I was planning ahead and looking at the projected ESPN rankings that the people in my league will rely on when they make their choices. And it so happened that around when I have to draft a player, that players who have the same position, were grouped up. So I thought I could pick the best player out of the groupie that had the most potential in the actual season compared to their predicted ESPN projected ranking. I wasn't really forced to take a player at each position at a certain time in the draft, but I still have to make sure I have enough players for certain positions and make sure I can fill the whole season. Sorry in advance if none of this made sense.
Haha I understand how it works. No big deal. I made the comment about activity and hustle referencing YOU the owner. I've found that working the waiver wire in baseba is extremely important due to the large number of games and I imagine basketball is similar.
I wouldn't pigeonhole myself into having a plan that long term or taking a certain position with each pick. Weird stuff happens in drafts of all kinds and the most important thing is to be adaptable by having contingencies.
|
United States4471 Posts
On October 15 2014 04:00 LightningEdge wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:10 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On October 15 2014 00:03 LightningEdge wrote:
I'm doing a 12 man Fantasy League 9 category rotisserie off of the ESPN Fantasy Rankings. Who do you guys think I should pick for best value? This kind of analysis is very difficult because each pick depends heavily on the pick(s) that are made before it. You can only pre-plan a draft so much because you have to be able to react to what happens during the draft. People can discuss overall 9-cat value, but that won't mean much outside of the first few rounds because you'll have to address your team needs and particular team strategy (i.e. punted categories). Also, this thread really isn't the place for fantasy basketball advice, but it's fine since there isn't a fantasy bball thread set up this season. + Show Spoiler +With that said, I'll give my two cents on how I generally rank these players assuming no punting and the standard 9-cat (PTS, 3PTM, REB, AST, STL, BLK, TO, FG%, FT%). Choosing 2 Power Forwards, Draft pick #11 and #14:
Serge Ibaka, Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Chris Bosh Love, Ibaka and Aldridge are the best overall value. Love may see a dip in production this season playing next to Lebron and Kyrie, but he's the type of player who doesn't need to dominate the ball to produce. He excels at playing off the ball, spot up shooting, passing, and rebounding, all of which should not be affected much at all by his new teammates. Ibaka is a standard late 1st/early 2nd round pick because of his elite shotblocking and efficiency (%s and TOs), but you have to keep in mind that taking him puts you at a significant disadvantage early in the PTS category since most players taken that early are elite scorers. Plus, some people don't really care much at all about the TO category and a good amount of his value comes from it. One could also argue there's some uncertainty of how Ibaka will be affected by the loss of Durant since his scoring is reliant upon being set up by others. Aldridge should repeat his production from last season as neither his team situation or role has changed in any significant way. The dark horse pick would be Blake, but his poor production in STL and BLK have always kept him just out of this range and there's nothing to suggest that those numbers will improve this season so far. It's highly unlikely that Bosh ever returns to his pre-MIA days at this point in his career, which is what it'd take for him to be deserving of being picked this early. Picking 2 Guards out of these guys, Draft pick #35 and 38:
Eric Bledsoe, Kemba Walker, Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Victor Oladipo, Klay Thompson, Jrue Holiday Out of these players, I'd go with Bledsoe and Klay. Bledsoe flashed 2nd round potential when healthy last season and Klay looks primed to have a breakout season after a good showing with Team USA this summer. Kobe and Rose are still health risks that will likely be limited by their injuries, and likely have to take games off throughout the season. Oladipo has potential, but hasn't shown production at this level yet. Jrue is like Kobe and Rose, but with a lower ceiling. Kemba's FG% hit keeps his value below this point and his usage may drop with Lance coming in and taking over a lot of the ballhandling. Picking 2 Forwards, Draft pick 59 and 62:
Jabari Parker, David Lee, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan The safe picks are Pau and Duncan, as both are proven producers who, despite their age, showed this level of production last year. Pau's usage and PT might be limited with his smaller role and Taj behind him, but that may actually be a blessing because it'll keep him healthy and allow him to play his best whenever he is on the floor. Plus, the early signs in the preseason are very good. Duncan is just Duncan, nuff said. Jabari would be the upside pick, but I consider it a major gamble at this point in his career because he isn't very efficient (FG% and FT%), isn't a great 3pt shooter, doesn't get dimes, and isn't known for his defensive numbers. Plus, that team is so young and has no solid pieces to lean on, which means they'll likely be inconsistent and struggle often. Then again, they could somehow turn into the PHO of last season, but I find it pretty unlikely. Lee is solid choice, but he's better suited for a punt BLK build and has his own injury concerns. Plus, GS looked pretty good with Draymond playing as a small ball PF and may look to go with it more often this season. Picking 2 Guards, Draft pick #83 and 86:
Darren Collison, Arron Afflalo, Jose Calderon, George Hill, Isaiah Thomas I like Hill and Calderon out of this group. Calderon is going into a great situation where his skills (3pt shooting and efficient ballhandling) will be put to good use and he has no real competition for PT. Hill is going to have to produce with the injury to PG and loss of Lance, and he's shown himself capable of producing even better than this range before. He won't give you great AST numbers, but he's efficient and can produce across the board. Also has no competition for minutes or usage. Collison is someone some people are high on, but I'm not one of them. He hasn't played like a starting caliber PG in years, and he hasn't really impressed so far in the preseason. Cousins and Gay are high usage guys for their positions, and it's unclear what the Kings are building there. However, he will get every chance to shine since so much was made of him coming in to replace Isaiah. Afflalo's role will be smaller in DEN than it was in ORL, and his defensive numbers have never been very impressive despite his reputation as a defensive guard. Picking 1 Center, Draft pick #110:
Larry Sanders, Andrew Bogut, Omer Asik, Anderson Varejao Sanders and Bogut are the better options because of their potential production. Sanders was producing 3rd round value just a season ago, and MIL is still paying him too much to give up on him. Bogut has produced well while at GS and has only been limited by his injuries. The missed games should be less painful in a roto league where you can sub someone in behind him when he's out. Asik is a two category producer with very limited upside and bad FT%. He won't have the ball in his hands much at all with all the other much better offensive options on this team. Varejao hasn't been able to stay healthy in forever, will have a significantly reduced role with such talented teammates, and will be competing with Tristan Thompson for minutes all season. Picking 2 players, Draft pick #131 and #134:
Spencer Hawes, Channing Frye, Timofey Mozgov, Gorgui Dieng, Paul Pierce
And my last draft pick #155:
Jodie Meeks, Randy Foye, Marcus Smart, Kelly Olynyk, Evan Turner
Thank you in advance whoever helps me!
Too lazy to finish up the last few sets, but they're a matter of taste at this point. I want to reiterate that it's very risky to plan out a draft in this way because you don't know what will happen as it goes on. You don't want to lock yourself into drafting certain positions at certain times or assume certain players will be available at certain times. It's more important to know the strengths and weaknesses of the players, understand team building strategies, and keep an eye on what the other teams are doing with their builds. Wow thanks a lot for taking the time to write that up. I learned a lot about how I should approach a fantasy league in a different light and a lot of insight on these players. This is now my second time playing in a fantasy league and I just thought that as long as I chose sleepers who had potential to perform better than their designated rank I would be fine. And if my first choices out of the groupie were taken, I would just pick the next guy on the list. I didn't really want to punt anything and I felt most of the players I listed did not have major weaknesses. But you are completely right how players will have weaknesses and I should build a team from the previous player I pick and so on. I will readjust my approach to this league from your insight. Thank you!
Np. If you're really interested in some in-depth fantasy bball content, I'd recommend the site basketballmonster.com. They have some "premium content" that you can only access by paying some money, but I think it's totally worth it, especially with the draft and team management tools a subscription comes with that you can use all year. The people who run the site know their stuff and provide really good content.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
