DD slaggin on therrien

On voudrait marquer plus de buts, mais notre système fait qu'on gagne des matchs serrés

'we'd like to score more goals, but our system is to win close games [instead]'.

FaCE_1

Canada6174 Posts

May 16 2015 19:31 GMT

#2227

well, i don't think he is coming back so he can shoot that if he want

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

May 16 2015 23:39 GMT

#2228

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QuanticHawk

United States32080 Posts

May 18 2015 14:05 GMT

#2229

I think for STL and BOS, that would be bad moves because those coaches are proven to be good, have a history of success (cup wins with their current team or in the past) or at the very least progression (the Blues have statistically been better each of the last 3 years),

And those two teams have roster issues: The Blues have one of the most stacked teams but constantly get sub-par or average at best goaltending, and they keep on running into monster teams in the west. The B's had injuries this year (Krejic and Chara missed large parts of the season, so that's a #1 defensemen who suppresses shots and puts up points and a 1B center who does the same), underperforming forwards, and are trying to figure out how to replace a HOF defensemen who can eat 30 tough minutes a night.

Montreal's has bottom six roster issues, but they have a pretty deep and mobile defense, and their top 6 is skilled enough to do something other than that horrid dump and chase they do every single possession. And they're not a good defensive team (as Therrien supporters mention) something that's shown through shots against, corsi against, fenwick against - all bottom 3rd of the league in the two full seasons therrien has had. That's been the one staple of his teams over the years: they are not good offensive teams, they get shelled on defense, and rely on the goalie to bail them out.

Over the last 3 years, some underlying stats for each team (reminder: 12-13 was a lockout year, so it makes the numbers a little funky with the smaller sample size)

BOSTON:
14-15: Goals For: 213 (23rd of 30), Goals Against: 211 (11th of 30) . CF - 3729 (8th); CA - 3485 (15th)
13-14: Goals For: 261 (3rd of 30), Goals Against: 177 (2nd of 30). CF - 3878 (5th); CA - 3320 (6th)
12-13: Goals For: 131 (11th of 30), Goals Against: 109 (3rd of 30). CF - 2391 (1st); CA - 2005 (9th)
(They went to the finals this year)

STL:
14-15: Goals For: 248 (5th of 30), Goals Against: 201 (4th of 30). CF - 3603 (13th); CA - 3359 (8th)
13-14: Goals For: 248 (7th of 30), Goals Against: 191 (3rd of 30). CF - 3544 (15th); CA - 3128 (3rd)
12-13: Goals For: 129 (14th of 30), Goals Against: 115 (5th of 30). CF - 1953 (21st); CA - 1803 (3rd)

MTL:
14-15: Goals For: 221 (18th of 30), Goals Against: 189 (1st of 30). CF - 3544 (19th); CA - 3762 (24th)
13-14: Goals For: 215 (21st of 30), Goals Against: 204 (6th of 30). CF - 3368 (20th); CA - 3842 (25th)
12-13: Goals For: 149 (3rd of 30), Goals Against: 126 (13th of 30). CF - 2125(10th); CA - 1896 (7th)

The stats make it pretty clear that Therrien's system is a detriment to the team. And even if you wanted to argue results, he's made it just as far as Jacques Martin's teams did just a few years ago. MTL obviously needs to build up the third so they don't run pluggers on it, but there's more than roster issues at play.

Even if you go back to when he was at Pittsburgh, the trend still holds. 07-08, the year they lost in the final, they were 26th in CF and 25th in CA on a team that featured two of the best centers in the world. When Disco Dan had a full year with a very similar roster in 09-10, they jumped to 6th in CF and 13th in CA.

That style of play works if you're completely outclassed and can't possibly compete otherwise, say like how Latvia's goalie kept it 2-1 vs the Canadians in the Olympics. It's silly if you've got a top 3 goalie, a Norris winner on your blue line, and good forwards in your top 6.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

May 18 2015 14:29 GMT

#2230

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QuanticHawk

United States32080 Posts

May 18 2015 14:40 GMT

#2231

Yeah but the point is that the Canadiens are hardly short on talent. They may have essentially two fourth lines with how bad their bottom six is (Lordy do they saddle Edler with shit), but their top 6 is comparable to most playoff teams skill wise. Their D is good, mobile, and make solid outlet passes. They have the parts to play more efficient hockey if they wanted to. The coach and gm are just all in on a style of play that is not very effective on the long term.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

May 18 2015 15:05 GMT

#2232

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StarStruck

25339 Posts

May 18 2015 15:31 GMT

#2233

It goes well beyond the coach. They're just the first person to get lynched usually.

Jer99

Canada8158 Posts

May 18 2015 23:05 GMT

#2234

http://i.imgur.com/szSfUCQ.png

Blisse

Canada3710 Posts

May 19 2015 04:48 GMT

#2235

Hmmm, Rangers game is a bit conflicting

I think the Rangers played better most of the game, just that the one SHG really just killed the momentum, and they took way too many penalties. But other than that, the Rangers outshot and hemmed the Bolts in their zone a lot and had a crazy number of close calls and misses where Bishop was way out of position.

Don't really know if it was just bad puck luck because the Bolts seemed to get a ton of lucky breaks when they did score (defenseman tripping in offensive zone leads to breakaway) versus the Rangers grinding out long shifts in the Bolts zone and not getting any goals despite tons of crazy chances with players sliding 5 ft to block an empty net.

I think AV needs to re-evaluate whether point shots with deflections is a good strategy versus the Bolts. And it seems like they also need to re-consider trying to block shots all the time, because the Bolts seem to have caught on and instead just throw the puck across the ice for a one-time when the lane is blocked, which makes it hard for Lundqvist.

Bottom line is Rangers *need* to finish their goals.

Also, Johnson is a fricking monster. Game was really intense even though the score ended up like that. Bishop didn't look "impressive" imo, it was more that the Rangers couldn't snipe. Also it'd be nice to see Rangers crashing the net more instead of trying point shots that get blocked half the time.

QuanticHawk

United States32080 Posts

May 19 2015 13:30 GMT

#2236

The Rangers had a lot of good plays, but they also had a lot of really really bad ones too. They got their chances, but the mistakes and penalties killed them.

I do agree with changing up the Ranger's strategy on offense and defense. The Bolts love to go for the cross ice pass and have the skill to wait out the blocking defender. The Rangers have wayyy more open ice this series, though I do think they've been taking it more and getting their rushes in. They're definitely not dumping as much. However, I do wish when they have the zone, they'd go for more of those cross ice passes vs just trying to jam it on for a rebound.

Agreed on Bishop too, and Johnson is a monster. Dude's just so calm out there it's crazy.