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On January 12 2015 11:00 giftdgecko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 10:40 cLutZ wrote:On January 12 2015 10:30 giftdgecko wrote:
Manning at <100% is still a much better option than anything else available to the broncos. I don't think he's worth the contract he has now though, especially with some contracts coming up and some good players wanting to get their pay day. If Manning comes back he may be asked to take a paycut, which would unfortunately mean more commercials with his awkward acting I think I am a Manning fan. I believe Manning > Brady, historically, and I honestly don't think its close (because the Pats are 10-1500x as good as the Colts, as an organization). That said, Manning is not Manning, and its really a shame that the two best teams he ever played for have come when he was in his late 30s, and this time he really hasn't even been there for the last 8 weeks. (As a pats fan) I disagree whole heartedly that Manning is better, because of the HOF WR's Manning played with and the fact that Brady's numbers in the playoffs are crazy. Pats organization is better than the Colts? Sure. But those offenses were stacked many years. Manning is a great QB that showed Brady how to be a better QB with his innovative style at the line, but Brady has done more with less weapons and in many years an inferior O line (I don't think it was ever better). IF manning wants to play he will because realistically in the NFL there are always at least 15 teams that need to find a franchise QB to run the ship
I agree about the future. Hell, if I was Manning, I don't retire unless the doctors tell me that my neck is bad enough that something could cause me to be in a wheelchair permanently (which, by the way, is a risk in the NFL even if you are 100% healthy). I don't think his "deterioration" this year is actual deterioration, it seems to be a specific injury like Favre when he was on the Jets (and then almost led the Vikings to the Super Bowl a year later in arguably the best season of his career).
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If Manning can no longer put together 5 months of solid play, why not halve his salary, hire some other vet (Orton-level) to play up till week 10, then hand Peyton the reins at that point? The Broncos as a team are good enough to hold steady until Manning rolls up.
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On January 12 2015 11:12 FatChicksUnited wrote:
If Manning can no longer put together 5 months of solid play, why not halve his salary, hire some other vet (Orton-level) to play up till week 10, then hand Peyton the reins at that point? The Broncos as a team are good enough to hold steady until Manning rolls up.
Manning and most QB's rely on their timing to be great with their receivers. Otherwise those quick outs and audible routes start to look like no one knows what they are doing
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 12 2015 11:12 FatChicksUnited wrote:
If Manning can no longer put together 5 months of solid play, why not halve his salary, hire some other vet (Orton-level) to play up till week 10, then hand Peyton the reins at that point? The Broncos as a team are good enough to hold steady until Manning rolls up.
it's against the culture of pretty much any sport to do that. smart teams do it though like spurs. typically teams do rest their starters at the end of a season but not early on.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 12 2015 11:00 giftdgecko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 10:40 cLutZ wrote:On January 12 2015 10:30 giftdgecko wrote:
Manning at <100% is still a much better option than anything else available to the broncos. I don't think he's worth the contract he has now though, especially with some contracts coming up and some good players wanting to get their pay day. If Manning comes back he may be asked to take a paycut, which would unfortunately mean more commercials with his awkward acting I think I am a Manning fan. I believe Manning > Brady, historically, and I honestly don't think its close (because the Pats are 10-1500x as good as the Colts, as an organization). That said, Manning is not Manning, and its really a shame that the two best teams he ever played for have come when he was in his late 30s, and this time he really hasn't even been there for the last 8 weeks. (As a pats fan) I disagree whole heartedly that Manning is better, because of the HOF WR's Manning played with and the fact that Brady's numbers in the playoffs are crazy. Pats organization is better than the Colts? Sure. But those offenses were stacked many years. Manning is a great QB that showed Brady how to be a better QB with his innovative style at the line, but Brady has done more with less weapons and in many years an inferior O line (I don't think it was ever better). IF manning wants to play he will because realistically in the NFL there are always at least 15 teams that need to find a franchise QB to run the ship
i'm a pretty big peyton manning supporter, but he does have lower floor performance than brady. however, peyton and his offense on full click is just the best ever passing performance, imo. it just won't work against prepared defenses.
in manning's defense though the 'hall of fame' receivers he's played with are best as route runners rather than just ridiculous mismatch weapons. if he had a moss or OBJESUS, he could have done better in the playoffs against tougher defenses.
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Italy12246 Posts
On January 12 2015 11:12 FatChicksUnited wrote:
If Manning can no longer put together 5 months of solid play, why not halve his salary, hire some other vet (Orton-level) to play up till week 10, then hand Peyton the reins at that point? The Broncos as a team are good enough to hold steady until Manning rolls up.
Yeah that's never going to happen but it would be hilarious.
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51586 Posts
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Jesus christ, isn't he tired of having to wake up to woefully crippling offenses every day? He should just be a D coordinator on a good team.
At least being the Bills coach is probably the least scrutinized job in the NFL. That might be a nice change of pace for him. Definitely a team upgrade as well... sadly.
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On January 12 2015 11:00 giftdgecko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 10:40 cLutZ wrote:On January 12 2015 10:30 giftdgecko wrote:
Manning at <100% is still a much better option than anything else available to the broncos. I don't think he's worth the contract he has now though, especially with some contracts coming up and some good players wanting to get their pay day. If Manning comes back he may be asked to take a paycut, which would unfortunately mean more commercials with his awkward acting I think I am a Manning fan. I believe Manning > Brady, historically, and I honestly don't think its close (because the Pats are 10-1500x as good as the Colts, as an organization). That said, Manning is not Manning, and its really a shame that the two best teams he ever played for have come when he was in his late 30s, and this time he really hasn't even been there for the last 8 weeks. (As a pats fan) I disagree whole heartedly that Manning is better, because of the HOF WR's Manning played with and the fact that Brady's numbers in the playoffs are crazy. Pats organization is better than the Colts? Sure. But those offenses were stacked many years. Manning is a great QB that showed Brady how to be a better QB with his innovative style at the line, but Brady has done more with less weapons and in many years an inferior O line (I don't think it was ever better). IF manning wants to play he will because realistically in the NFL there are always at least 15 teams that need to find a franchise QB to run the ship
Outside of a couple seasons, Brady never did more. And in the seasons he did, it was when the Pats were stupid stacked on offense.
I was just chatting with my buddy about this, and it can't be stated enough how much support brady got from the D and ST, especially early on in his career. Brady never had a defense ranked worse than 16th in points against. Outside of a couple of years, Manning never got that kind of support, which is huge.
Basically, for me, Manning is #1 because he was more or less elite his whole career. Brady spent half of his career as a above average-good qb on a very good defensive team. He really didn't turn into the elite level qb until he was closing in on 30. Having a better playoff record due to having a much better team doesn't make up for the close to a decade that Manning was unquestionably the better qb.
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Apparently reports are coming out that Peyton has been playing with a torn quad which would explain the lack of power behind his throws. This is what I initially thought. That it was an unrelated injury not his neck making him look like crap the past few games. I expect Peyton to be back to his usual self next season if his quad heals up properly. Maybe people are just too eager to witness the demise of Peyton manning
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Isn't in blatantly against the rules to not disclose injuries like that? I'm not certain but that smells fishy.
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Italy12246 Posts
Don't think so, i remember a few years ago a similar thing happening to Brady (having worse play at the end of the season), and there were rumors about him playing in december and january with a broken rib or something like that.
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Aside from being a Patriots fan I respect Brady because he probably works harder than anyone. Does he have a lot of natural talent? Yes, of course. But, I think he also had to work to improve not only physically, but mentally as well. Early in his career he was great because he didn't make mistakes. Sure, he wasn't prolific, but he wasn't asked to do much more than that though.
Do I think Peyton came into the league more innately talented? Yeah, I do. Do I think he is now? No. I'm not even talking about his poor performance this latter half of the season. I just mean in general.
Brady is like NaDa to me, he works his ass off to be the best. If I didn't love my team I would say I'd like to see Brady on another team to give context to his ability. But, that's not possible and I'm not going to wish that.
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On January 13 2015 03:12 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Isn't in blatantly against the rules to not disclose injuries like that? I'm not certain but that smells fishy.
I thought you can not report injuries but there is some sort of penalty if you're not on the injury report and don't play. I have nothing to back this but my hazy memory. Anyone else?
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On January 13 2015 00:36 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 11:00 giftdgecko wrote:On January 12 2015 10:40 cLutZ wrote:On January 12 2015 10:30 giftdgecko wrote:
Manning at <100% is still a much better option than anything else available to the broncos. I don't think he's worth the contract he has now though, especially with some contracts coming up and some good players wanting to get their pay day. If Manning comes back he may be asked to take a paycut, which would unfortunately mean more commercials with his awkward acting I think I am a Manning fan. I believe Manning > Brady, historically, and I honestly don't think its close (because the Pats are 10-1500x as good as the Colts, as an organization). That said, Manning is not Manning, and its really a shame that the two best teams he ever played for have come when he was in his late 30s, and this time he really hasn't even been there for the last 8 weeks. (As a pats fan) I disagree whole heartedly that Manning is better, because of the HOF WR's Manning played with and the fact that Brady's numbers in the playoffs are crazy. Pats organization is better than the Colts? Sure. But those offenses were stacked many years. Manning is a great QB that showed Brady how to be a better QB with his innovative style at the line, but Brady has done more with less weapons and in many years an inferior O line (I don't think it was ever better). IF manning wants to play he will because realistically in the NFL there are always at least 15 teams that need to find a franchise QB to run the ship Outside of a couple seasons, Brady never did more. And in the seasons he did, it was when the Pats were stupid stacked on offense. I was just chatting with my buddy about this, and it can't be stated enough how much support brady got from the D and ST, especially early on in his career. Brady never had a defense ranked worse than 16th in points against. Outside of a couple of years, Manning never got that kind of support, which is huge. Basically, for me, Manning is #1 because he was more or less elite his whole career. Brady spent half of his career as a above average-good qb on a very good defensive team. He really didn't turn into the elite level qb until he was closing in on 30. Having a better playoff record due to having a much better team doesn't make up for the close to a decade that Manning was unquestionably the better qb.
Those couple of seasons with Moss are really the only thing we have to separate the two though. The career numbers are almost identical for comp %, pass att/game, avg yds/throw, QB rating, TD's/game. Pretty much all the numbers are negligible aside from the head to head match up and playoff wins. This is offensive numbers, so it has very little to do with the defense and special teams being better. So I always look at the couple of seasons Brady actually had a HOF reciever, and he set records. You want to argue that PM never had a burner? ok. But the better defense argument is irrelevant when you throw out the championships and head to head matchups. Welker is another direct comparison, he's non-existent on the Broncos, he looked like a HOF'er with Brady.
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Italy12246 Posts
Manning set records too last season so the argument for the 07 season kind of loses some weight.
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On January 13 2015 04:03 giftdgecko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:36 QuanticHawk wrote:On January 12 2015 11:00 giftdgecko wrote:On January 12 2015 10:40 cLutZ wrote:On January 12 2015 10:30 giftdgecko wrote:
Manning at <100% is still a much better option than anything else available to the broncos. I don't think he's worth the contract he has now though, especially with some contracts coming up and some good players wanting to get their pay day. If Manning comes back he may be asked to take a paycut, which would unfortunately mean more commercials with his awkward acting I think I am a Manning fan. I believe Manning > Brady, historically, and I honestly don't think its close (because the Pats are 10-1500x as good as the Colts, as an organization). That said, Manning is not Manning, and its really a shame that the two best teams he ever played for have come when he was in his late 30s, and this time he really hasn't even been there for the last 8 weeks. (As a pats fan) I disagree whole heartedly that Manning is better, because of the HOF WR's Manning played with and the fact that Brady's numbers in the playoffs are crazy. Pats organization is better than the Colts? Sure. But those offenses were stacked many years. Manning is a great QB that showed Brady how to be a better QB with his innovative style at the line, but Brady has done more with less weapons and in many years an inferior O line (I don't think it was ever better). IF manning wants to play he will because realistically in the NFL there are always at least 15 teams that need to find a franchise QB to run the ship Outside of a couple seasons, Brady never did more. And in the seasons he did, it was when the Pats were stupid stacked on offense. I was just chatting with my buddy about this, and it can't be stated enough how much support brady got from the D and ST, especially early on in his career. Brady never had a defense ranked worse than 16th in points against. Outside of a couple of years, Manning never got that kind of support, which is huge. Basically, for me, Manning is #1 because he was more or less elite his whole career. Brady spent half of his career as a above average-good qb on a very good defensive team. He really didn't turn into the elite level qb until he was closing in on 30. Having a better playoff record due to having a much better team doesn't make up for the close to a decade that Manning was unquestionably the better qb. Those couple of seasons with Moss are really the only thing we have to separate the two though. The career numbers are almost identical for comp %, pass att/game, avg yds/throw, QB rating, TD's/game. Pretty much all the numbers are negligible aside from the head to head match up and playoff wins. This is offensive numbers, so it has very little to do with the defense and special teams being better. So I always look at the couple of seasons Brady actually had a HOF reciever, and he set records. You want to argue that PM never had a burner? ok. But the better defense argument is irrelevant when you throw out the championships and head to head matchups. Welker is another direct comparison, he's non-existent on the Broncos, he looked like a HOF'er with Brady.
Hold up, your argument is that Brady set records the Moss year...???
Manning broke those records.
Also Welker had his highest TD total of his career in just 13 games last year, with way less targets. That doesn't make Manning a worse QB it means they used their receivers differently.
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yea welker was like a 2 or 3 option on the pats, he is like a 5th or 6th option on the broncos lol.
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yeah I was going to mention how absurd that is but everyone covered those bases
it's also worth mentioning that all those categories mentioned, payton is ahead of Brady (and he smokes him in career TDs because his peak was higher and longer). So I'm not sure why that his career numbers get dismissed as negligible. They're close, but it says something that Brady is behind him in virtually everything except for playoff record. And frankly, attaching W-L to a position is dumb as hell, and a horrible way to measure a player's skill. As is placing a higher emphasis on stats in playoff games. 250+ regular season games give a much clearer picture about a player's career than 20 odd playoff games.
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I feel like a weirdo. Am I really the only person in America who likes the rule that made the Dez play not a catch?
Like, don't let the ball hit the ground. That is the rule, and it's basically the definition of "catch".
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EPT
