On April 21 2013 22:54 VManOfMana wrote: Really happy for Perez' performance. A bit risky, but its no more Mr. Nice Guy. Don't hate, the guy *is* talented.
Nice to see the McLarens be a bit more competitive,
Montoya as well, but talented doesn't justify racing like that. Its just risky , you can race hard and still fair.
Getting more points justifies racing like that, especially when your team is idiotic. If one driver is clearly faster than the other, in the same team, let him past and maximise your points. Mclaren screwed up that race. Perez could probably have been ahead of Hamilton as well if they had been sensible, and Button might have been one place higher up if he hadn't lose time and tyres fighting Perez.
And what about Button being risky by pushing Perez off the track?
I am not talking about Button, I'm talking about Perez and no, nothing justifies racing like that. If their team is too stupid, thats their fault, but risking lives due to risky driving is not justified. Also, its not like that was the first and only situation where Perez did drive like that.
But yes, I said above that I think Button should have let him pass.
What justifies Button driving like he drove then?
Nothing, but thats not the point. You completely seem to miss it. Just because one guy is doing wrong (and that was Perez to begin with in that discussion) it doesn't make two wrongs one right.
Perez past is full of risky driving and stupid incidents.
If you want to single people out for being dangerous, I wouldn't be looking at Perez. Maldonado, Grosjean and although people don't like to admit it Alonso has a long list of crazy shit in his career.
On April 21 2013 23:14 Aristodemus wrote: If you want to single people out for being dangerous, I wouldn't be looking at Perez. Maldonado, Grosjean and although people don't like to admit it Alonso has a long list of crazy shit in his career.
Alonso dangerous? You really are clueless lol.
Pretty good race all in all, gutted about Alonso's DRS failure, he really could have made Vettel work for it. Really good race from Hammy too, fighting his way back to 5th and maintaining a strong DWC position. I still can't understand why Webber didn't get a drive though penalty at the very least for driving into Rosberg at turn 1, really a very stupid move and the second race on the trot were he as driven into another driver, hope the stewards punish him for the next race.
Not even sure why F1 even bother to have stewards at the race, since they never seem to punish anyone during the race. Might as well just have some guys sitting at home who watch the video feeds during the week after the race and make some random inconsistent decisions.
On April 21 2013 23:14 Aristodemus wrote: If you want to single people out for being dangerous, I wouldn't be looking at Perez. Maldonado, Grosjean and although people don't like to admit it Alonso has a long list of crazy shit in his career.
Alonso dangerous? You really are clueless lol.
Pretty good race all in all, gutted about Alonso's DRS failure, he really could have made Vettel work for it. Really good race from Hammy too, fighting his way back to 5th and maintaining a strong DWC position. I still can't understand why Webber didn't get a drive though penalty at the very least for driving into Rosberg at turn 1, really a very stupid move and the second race on the trot were he as driven into another driver, hope the stewards punish him for the next race.
I don't mind being called clueless from a guy that doesn't know the difference between where and were As for Alonso, I didn't say he was dangerous (reading not your strong suit either) just that he has done many things that could be deemed dangerous. Brake testing, not slowing for the double yellow's in Brazil, slip-streaming people as they pit. This is dangerous.
On April 21 2013 23:32 Lonyo wrote: Not even sure why F1 even bother to have stewards at the race, since they never seem to punish anyone during the race. Might as well just have some guys sitting at home who watch the video feeds during the week after the race and make some random inconsistent decisions.
to be fair, the FIA are pretty incompetent in nearly everything they do... they can't even get there electronic systems to work (DRS alerts/Blue/Yellow flag warnings etc), makes sense that they'd also be totally incapable of making informed decisions on the fly.
On April 21 2013 23:14 Aristodemus wrote: If you want to single people out for being dangerous, I wouldn't be looking at Perez. Maldonado, Grosjean and although people don't like to admit it Alonso has a long list of crazy shit in his career.
Alonso dangerous? You really are clueless lol.
Pretty good race all in all, gutted about Alonso's DRS failure, he really could have made Vettel work for it. Really good race from Hammy too, fighting his way back to 5th and maintaining a strong DWC position. I still can't understand why Webber didn't get a drive though penalty at the very least for driving into Rosberg at turn 1, really a very stupid move and the second race on the trot were he as driven into another driver, hope the stewards punish him for the next race.
I don't mind being called clueless from a guy that doesn't know the difference between where and were As for Alonso, I didn't say he was dangerous (reading not your strong suit either) just that he has done many things that could be deemed dangerous. Brake testing, not slowing for the double yellow's in Brazil, slip-streaming people as they pit. This is dangerous.
lmao so you berate me for grammar 'errors' (as if that actually matters) then say you're not calling him dangerous, but saying some of the things he does 'could' be dangerous. Your cute.
On April 21 2013 23:14 Aristodemus wrote: If you want to single people out for being dangerous, I wouldn't be looking at Perez. Maldonado, Grosjean and although people don't like to admit it Alonso has a long list of crazy shit in his career.
Alonso dangerous? You really are clueless lol.
Pretty good race all in all, gutted about Alonso's DRS failure, he really could have made Vettel work for it. Really good race from Hammy too, fighting his way back to 5th and maintaining a strong DWC position. I still can't understand why Webber didn't get a drive though penalty at the very least for driving into Rosberg at turn 1, really a very stupid move and the second race on the trot were he as driven into another driver, hope the stewards punish him for the next race.
I don't mind being called clueless from a guy that doesn't know the difference between where and were As for Alonso, I didn't say he was dangerous (reading not your strong suit either) just that he has done many things that could be deemed dangerous. Brake testing, not slowing for the double yellow's in Brazil, slip-streaming people as they pit. This is dangerous.
lmao so you berate me for grammar 'errors' (as if that actually matters) then say you're not calling him dangerous, but saying some of the things he does 'could' be dangerous. Your cute.
Some of the things he has done was dangerous, that is what I am saying. Alonso has been guilty of dangerous moves throughout his career. Show me where I said Alonso was dangerous or perhaps defend the actions I named. You are = You're
He was faster than Button. He should have been left ahead of Button to give the team the best result.
They weren't racing for the win, and they aren't racing for the championship, they are racing to make the most of a bad situation. Button was slower, Perez was faster, and should have been let/left ahead. If Button thought Perez was being too aggressive, why didn't he just let him stay ahead? They are teammates, and they were on different strategies. It would have benefited both of them. Button was unnecessarily aggressive by not letting Perez go, and by forcing him off the track. The fact that Perez was ahead of Button before Button even made his last pitstop shows that.
On April 22 2013 00:22 Lonyo wrote: He was faster than Button. He should have been left ahead of Button to give the team the best result.
They weren't racing for the win, and they aren't racing for the championship, they are racing to make the most of a bad situation. Button was slower, Perez was faster, and should have been let/left ahead. If Button thought Perez was being too aggressive, why didn't he just let him stay ahead? They are teammates, and they were on different strategies. It would have benefited both of them. Button was unnecessarily aggressive by not letting Perez go, and by forcing him off the track. The fact that Perez was ahead of Button before Button even made his last pitstop shows that.
I agree, but it doesn't justify his driving in that race (outside the button incident) and in the other races as well.
Mclaren by their inability to instruct their drivers almost certainly cost themselves a place for each driver, which is 3 points, which would all have been taken from Mercedes. Those 3 points would have put them equal with Force India in the constructors championship.
If they wanted a slow subservient safe driver at Mclaren, they could have had their pick of any number of proven drivers from various teams. They picked Perez knowing full well how he drove last year.
Mclaren need to sort their shit out in house and work out their race approach before you can work out how their drivers should be driving.
On April 22 2013 00:22 Lonyo wrote: He was faster than Button. He should have been left ahead of Button to give the team the best result.
They weren't racing for the win, and they aren't racing for the championship, they are racing to make the most of a bad situation. Button was slower, Perez was faster, and should have been let/left ahead. If Button thought Perez was being too aggressive, why didn't he just let him stay ahead? They are teammates, and they were on different strategies. It would have benefited both of them. Button was unnecessarily aggressive by not letting Perez go, and by forcing him off the track. The fact that Perez was ahead of Button before Button even made his last pitstop shows that.
I do kinda agree, it made little sense as Perez was damaging his tires attacking so hard and Jensen was ruining his defending so hard. If Jensen had been 'asked' to let him past maybe McLaren would be able to walk away with a few more points...
Though Perez's move into Button was really stupid and could have taken them both out of the race
On April 22 2013 00:22 Lonyo wrote: He was faster than Button. He should have been left ahead of Button to give the team the best result.
They weren't racing for the win, and they aren't racing for the championship, they are racing to make the most of a bad situation. Button was slower, Perez was faster, and should have been let/left ahead. If Button thought Perez was being too aggressive, why didn't he just let him stay ahead? They are teammates, and they were on different strategies. It would have benefited both of them. Button was unnecessarily aggressive by not letting Perez go, and by forcing him off the track. The fact that Perez was ahead of Button before Button even made his last pitstop shows that.
Why should button yield his position? The team was probably in a situation where it was reasonable to employ team orders, and then Button should have listened, but it is certainly also acceptable (maybe even preferable) to let your drivers race. When there are no team orders in place they should treat each other like they treat other drivers. Button was definitely not wrong in defending his position, and Perez was not wrong in trying to overtake (though maybe he got a little overeager).
If Perez was truly faster he should just have overtaken Button as other drivers would do.
On another note.. If only Lotus could sort out their qualifying performance, Kimi would be challenging the lead pretty much every race. It's a shame, because it's the same issue they had last season... Poor qualifying but great race performance.