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On April 24 2013 18:29 hns wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 18:06 La1 wrote:
Its really nice to see a spanish team cry after not having decisions go there way.. barca have always gone down easy and for once the ref didnt blow up on every silly little fall they had, Really happy that BM took them apart Where's any crying from Barca?! I looked up the reactions after the game because I thought I missed some, since in every single one I saw explicitly said that the ref is not to blame (see e.g. here). So, please present some crying or stop it, it's really just re-establishing your own stereotypes without any actual reason at some point. I will happily stand corrected if there were actual complains about the ref.
Sorry! I did not mean the teams and I did not specifically mean on this site, I meant in general in England you have a lot of barca fanboys and it gives me great pleasure to see them knocked of their high horse  , The bbc website has a bunch of comments, I have a few friends that think barca are gods etc so its more a personal statement from my own view especially as i think barca have always been wrapped in bubble wrap by refs and given a lot of protection so light tackles turn into free kicks etc.. it seems this ref in this game was much more happy for people to get stuck in and barca couldn't handle it..
its how i imagine a team like stoke would play vs barca with a prem league ref (clearly without the amazing talent that bayern have)
You could also tell barca were a bit peeved off by some of the childish behavior (throwing the ball in robins face?)
for example the 3rd goal, mullar checked him (yes probs a foul) but straight away hes reaching for his face to make like he had been elbowed or something.. cheap little things they do...
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On April 24 2013 18:33 Pandemona wrote:
NO
You need a new manager, one who has experience. To be quite honest Brian Laudrup would be perfect choice right now. Knows how to win, knows how to manage, goes about it the right way.
Yesterday there was 3 reasons Barca lost;
1. Bartra, guy is wank, clearly out of his comfort zone
2. No Villa, playing the way Barca play all you have to do is tuck everyone inside and let Barca go wide, because they have no one to cross too. When Villa plays you can't do that, as they actually have a world class striker in the box awaiting the delivery.
3. Messi was not ready for that game. So you in effect played with 9 men. 1 CB missing and 1 Attacker missing.
You don't need to add any world class forwards to this team, you need to find a fucking replacement for Puyol AND FAST. Someone like Williams of Swansea. Big, strong, and can play with the ball at his feet. Thats the CB barca need, another Puyol/Pique mold.
No, no, no. What did Bartra do that was so awful? Is he responsible for the goals that mattered? Did he fail so hard this game? No. This loss is a team loss, and Bayern victory is a team victory, not just Robben and Muller. Bartra is in need of playtime, but I'm absolutely sure he's going to be number 2 or 3 (behind Piqué and potentially the new CB they'll buy this summer) for the years to come. Can people say Ribery/Robben/Muller were good, instead of saying the defender was bad? When Messi raped the whole Madrid defense in 2011 first leg, did I see 'Pepe, Ramos and Carvalho are wanks'? No, I saw 'Messi is a god' 
Villa? That's been the excuse for Barcelona this whole year and the year before. Barcelona in full shape and at their full strength don't need David Villa. Sure he's really good, and he's probably my favourite Barça player after Xavi, but he's absolutely not the "answer" everybody is looking for. Maybe if Villa was playing yesterday, we would have been raped 4-0 but in 45mn, because Lahm Robben would have destroyed the right side. Anyway we lost the game in the midfield and in the head, not in the attacking part.
Messi? I agree. But would he have changed the game the same against Bayern than against Milan? I highly doubt it.
On the manager part, I don't really know. Maybe they should have a higher class manager, maybe not. Maybe Tito is doing the things really well but the team isn't responding? Difficult to judge, so I prefer to give him more time.
To me the real reasons of this loss are in the head, and maybe a bit in the legs. They were tired physically a bit, sure. But they were mostly tired psychologically, and that's been going on for months now. They have achieved a miracle in la Liga, winning every game but one (vs RM, a draw) in the first 25 games of the season, I don't even know how they did that, because what I see now, is a team with no more hunger for titles. Hell, I know how they managed that. They saw RM claim the title with 100 points and 121 goals last season, winning in the Camp Nou, that was surely sufficient motivation for them.
They need fresh blood. God, look at Muller's reaction when he's subbed, it's absolutely thrilling to see that. This player, galaxy class. This same reaction, Barca player had it 2 years ago, I can remember Villa celebrating the 4-0 against RM at Camp Nou (the 5-0 game), he was almost crying of joy... At this level of competition, the head is more important than the skill, the physical aspect, etc...
And again, I answer to those who are saying that they have been figured out... well maybe they figured out that Barca was not in a good shape, but that's it. Their playstyle has always been very transparent, but still, they were unstoppable before. Everything, in the head.
Now please, can we move on and talk about Dortmund vs Madrid xD
Sure!
I hope for a BVB victory with a hat trick from Gotze just for lulz.
To be honest, I don't see RM losing this tie. Maybe losing in BVB's camp? I even doubt that. I said 2 weeks ago, I believe Dortmund already won their title, qualifying like that for the semis. They are too happy to be here and not badass enough to get back in the game for this tie against a team that's been waiting for these games all year long. Plus the story with Gotze...
BVB 1-3 RM
RM 2-0 BVB, clean.
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I think rm has it easy but I wouldn't mind dortmund advancing.
Whoever wins has to break bayerns legs though,  .
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51489 Posts
Sorry i don't agree with that is was more Bayern were better and Barca were tired >.<
One player was tired/unfit that was Messi, everyone else (minus Bartra) played fine. Iniesta for example was doing wonder, and Alba going forward look a real threat. Him and Iniesta were linking up very nicely. But Alba didn't have such a good game going backwards and was a bit flawed defensively.
Bartra played awful, the 3 things he actually contributed to that game were;
1. Fouling Muller, by taking him out with almost a fly kick looking challenge which he didn't have to make lol
2. Missing from 3 yards out
3. Missing from 6 yards out after having about 10seconds "to get set"
Other than those 3 things, Bartra did nothing in the game, i didn't see any good tackles, any good passes or any blocks/organizing. He was WAYYY out of his comfort zone and for that i just look at the manager and think surely he knew he was not ready for an AWAY leg inside the Allianz against a team that are riding on SUCH A BIG HIGH right now. Bartra should be playing home games in LaLiga to get used to things, not away game semi finals in champions league for experience.
Villa isn't the scapegoat in this. Barca vs Milan played with him Messi and Sanchez/Pedro i forget which one. But when they play with an actual striker down the middle they play much better. Pedro is so hit and miss for me, and the same with Sanchez, hit and miss. Villa and Messi together is just to good, Villa make the striker runs and Messi to pass the through balls to him, or playing 1-2s between eachother. There is so many pluses for Villa to play that not to play. Not to mention that when Sanchez/Messi/Pedro have the ball out wide they can actually cross it towards a striker >.<
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I feel sorry for Messi as he had to play when he clearly wasn't 100% fit and that's Villanovas fault. I think he should have started with Fabregas and have had Messi as the X factor. It worked against PSG and I think Fabregas would have contributed to a better offence and defense than the 80% Messi could achieve.
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But his job isn't to score? Have you seen Busquets shot-technique? It's ridiculous. Don't blame him for that... Yeah maybe out of his comfort zone, but what is his zone? He has played 5 games this season, and I believe in a future for him in Barcelona.
Who are you gonna put if its not Bartra? Song? Not a CB. Abidal? No way he plays a big game ever again in his life. And after that, nobody available. They're not gonna put Busquets either since they really need him in the midfield against Bayern. We've been playing without our best center backs for years now, it has always been an issue... Everybody is injured, suspended, wakawakawing with Shakira etc..
I didn't say Villa was the scapegoat, I'm saying that saying that Villa is the reason Barcelona can't score has been the excuse of the Barça fans and others for months now. And I disagree completely. And I really really like Villa. I agree, he should play a lot more, he has a style that Alexis, Pedro, Tello... don't have. But in the end, you put him yesterday, we may be losing 7-0. No way he would have changed anything.
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On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP ![[image loading]](http://i.minus.com/ixvbini7CWGmW.gif)
I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment.
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On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment.
Feel terrible for him  Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss...
On April 24 2013 16:41 amatoer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 14:08 Ferrose wrote:
So basically Arsenal is the best team in Europe since we were the only ones to beat Bayern. : D Together with bate borisov, yes.
And Leverkusen!
On April 24 2013 18:06 La1 wrote:
Its really nice to see a spanish team cry after not having decisions go there way.. barca have always gone down easy and for once the ref didnt blow up on every silly little fall they had, Really happy that BM took them apart
Remember when Arsenal beat Bayern and pretty much everyone on Bayern, especially Mueller, bitched to the ref practically the whole game? That was awesome.
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I just think there is a clear dividing line between the current 'legends' of the Masia and the new ones. People make out that the Barca Masia rape train can roll unhindered through the decades but I think no way - you get a 'magic crop' from your youth system once in a while (Man U late nineties, Dortmund now) but it will not always be like that, often it will just be a trickle of a few good players. And what's more, you might end up educating and inculcating them in a style of play which gets 'figured out'. Youth players like Tello are so standard, same with Bartra. That Thiago guy will he really ever be as good as Xavi/Iniesta? They have off-the-charts intangibles. Granted they really only came to prominence later in their careers but how many people actually knew they would? And therefore what's to say that the next Iniesta hasn't been already discouraged from playing football at a young age because his coach said he wasn't powerful/strong/technically flashy enough? We can't be sure.
If this game signifies the real start of top teams learning how to counter Barca's retarded Fifa-style combination of impatient-15-year-old high pressure defence and un-gamesmanlike horizontal 80% possession tiki-taka, I am jumping for joy. The way Bayern, Real Madrid and Man U play football is the way it should be played.
Although I don't believe it does, Barcelona still have a good 3-5 years left of being potentially the best team in the world before they really crash back to reality and start having to plug gaps and look for world talent to put into their team like RM have been having to do.
![[image loading]](http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p480x480/399868_612015958838624_1924686037_n.jpg)
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On April 24 2013 20:46 Ferrose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment. Feel terrible for him Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss...
I doubt that is the general consensus though, I think it's obvious to most that Barcelona had a collective failure. In fact if someone asked me to name the worst player on the pitch it would be Messi IMO. Messi's desire to always play is commendable, but it was clear that he wasn't even at 50% of his normal self. He was losing the ball to tackles from Robben of all people.
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Last time barca lost 4-0 was from a young and stunning Shevchenko who scored a hat trick, it was in their home as well, rivaldo, figo, giovanni couldn't do anything, lol.
In 171 times since the away goal ruling no team has managed to come back.
Literally the only hope is messi doing some magical stuff.
*I do remember milan coming back from 0-3 with a 0-4 I think against la coruna.
I hope for some good football today.
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Xavi doesn't have 3-5 years in him, I don't think you can say Iniesta is in his prime any more and at nearly 29 he's not looking like a player who will perform at the same level in the twilight years of his career. This is a team that can't function without Messi, who would play with him virtually immobile for 90 minutes rather than play without. I don't know how anyone can consider them the best today let alone in 3 or 5 years from now.
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On April 24 2013 20:46 Ferrose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment. Feel terrible for him Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss... Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 16:41 amatoer wrote:On April 24 2013 14:08 Ferrose wrote:
So basically Arsenal is the best team in Europe since we were the only ones to beat Bayern. : D Together with bate borisov, yes. And Leverkusen! Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 18:06 La1 wrote:
Its really nice to see a spanish team cry after not having decisions go there way.. barca have always gone down easy and for once the ref didnt blow up on every silly little fall they had, Really happy that BM took them apart Remember when Arsenal beat Bayern and pretty much everyone on Bayern, especially Mueller, bitched to the ref practically the whole game? That was awesome.
Guys everyone in every sport including referees is bitching on them. In professional it´s the best way to deal with losses.
Imagine you ran 10 - 15 kilometers, including sprints and infights and 30 seconds after the game some random guy with a microphone comes and say "you lost 4:0 why?" What are your options hmmm...
[ ] Well i was good but my teammates suck so it´s their fault
[ ] The other club is better then mine so basically my club sucks
[ ] it´s no ones fault because blaming the ref is like blaming rich people or politics: It´s a mystical creature and no one is hurt by blaming him.
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On April 24 2013 21:47 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 20:46 Ferrose wrote:On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment. Feel terrible for him Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss... I doubt that is the general consensus though, I think it's obvious to most that Barcelona had a collective failure. In fact if someone asked me to name the worst player on the pitch it would be Messi IMO. Messi's desire to always play is commendable, but it was clear that he wasn't even at 50% of his normal self. He was losing the ball to tackles from Robben of all people.
well if youre messi ~25m away from enemy goal and suddenly a robben comes up behind you cant blame him for losing the ball.
thats whats so great about robben,rib and overall bayern this season. they all are so damn willing to run and help out with defense and pressing. its not uncommon to see robben defend a possibly dangerous ball at his own 5m area nowadays. and all that while still beeing always there in the offense with sudden 60m sprints.
with 3 people around him and an unexpected 4th/5th coming from behind / other end of the field even a 110% messi will have a hard time getting anywhere.
On April 24 2013 21:57 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 20:46 Ferrose wrote:On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment. Feel terrible for him Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss... On April 24 2013 16:41 amatoer wrote:On April 24 2013 14:08 Ferrose wrote:
So basically Arsenal is the best team in Europe since we were the only ones to beat Bayern. : D Together with bate borisov, yes. And Leverkusen! On April 24 2013 18:06 La1 wrote:
Its really nice to see a spanish team cry after not having decisions go there way.. barca have always gone down easy and for once the ref didnt blow up on every silly little fall they had, Really happy that BM took them apart Remember when Arsenal beat Bayern and pretty much everyone on Bayern, especially Mueller, bitched to the ref practically the whole game? That was awesome. Guys everyone in every sport including referees is bitching on them. In professional it´s the best way to deal with losses. Imagine you ran 10 - 15 kilometers, including sprints and infights and 30 seconds after the game some random guy with a microphone comes and say "you lost 4:0 why?" What are your options hmmm... [ ] Well i was good but my teammates suck so it´s their fault [ ] The other club is better then mine so basically my club sucks [ ] it´s no ones fault because blaming the ref is like blaming rich people or politics: It´s a mystical creature and no one is hurt by blaming him.
nah its different in football. its pretty much the by far worst and most unfair sport when it comes to ref decisions. i saw countless game that got decided by ref failure. it happens all the time and when it happens people have all right to bitch about it. fifa needs to fucking get a grip and introduce some basic technic to cut out all the bullshit.
it doesnt apply to this game. no one can deny that bayern deserved atleast a 3:0 victory, the handball situation(s) and the offside not beeing that clear (even in replays its damn hard to tell and when in doubt decide pro attacker etc) etc.
but in general refs and their (lack of) decisions are a HUGE problem in football.
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On April 24 2013 22:03 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:47 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 20:46 Ferrose wrote:On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment. Feel terrible for him Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss... I doubt that is the general consensus though, I think it's obvious to most that Barcelona had a collective failure. In fact if someone asked me to name the worst player on the pitch it would be Messi IMO. Messi's desire to always play is commendable, but it was clear that he wasn't even at 50% of his normal self. He was losing the ball to tackles from Robben of all people. well if youre messi ~25m away from enemy goal and suddenly a robben comes up behind you cant blame him for losing the ball. thats whats so great about robben,rib and overall bayern this season. they all are so damn willing to run and help out with defense and pressing. its not uncommon to see robben defend a possibly dangerous ball at his own 5m area nowadays. and all that while still beeing always there in the offense with sudden 60m sprints. with 3 people around him and an unexpected 4th/5th coming from behind / other end of the field even a 110% messi will have a hard time getting anywhere. .
That's great to hear actually! Hope he brings it to the dutch national team as well.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On April 24 2013 22:03 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:47 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 20:46 Ferrose wrote:On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment. Feel terrible for him Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss... I doubt that is the general consensus though, I think it's obvious to most that Barcelona had a collective failure. In fact if someone asked me to name the worst player on the pitch it would be Messi IMO. Messi's desire to always play is commendable, but it was clear that he wasn't even at 50% of his normal self. He was losing the ball to tackles from Robben of all people. well if youre messi ~25m away from enemy goal and suddenly a robben comes up behind you cant blame him for losing the ball. thats whats so great about robben,rib and overall bayern this season. they all are so damn willing to run and help out with defense and pressing. its not uncommon to see robben defend a possibly dangerous ball at his own 5m area nowadays. and all that while still beeing always there in the offense with sudden 60m sprints. with 3 people around him and an unexpected 4th/5th coming from behind / other end of the field even a 110% messi will have a hard time getting anywhere. Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 21:57 USvBleakill wrote:On April 24 2013 20:46 Ferrose wrote:On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment. Feel terrible for him Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss... On April 24 2013 16:41 amatoer wrote:On April 24 2013 14:08 Ferrose wrote:
So basically Arsenal is the best team in Europe since we were the only ones to beat Bayern. : D Together with bate borisov, yes. And Leverkusen! On April 24 2013 18:06 La1 wrote:
Its really nice to see a spanish team cry after not having decisions go there way.. barca have always gone down easy and for once the ref didnt blow up on every silly little fall they had, Really happy that BM took them apart Remember when Arsenal beat Bayern and pretty much everyone on Bayern, especially Mueller, bitched to the ref practically the whole game? That was awesome. Guys everyone in every sport including referees is bitching on them. In professional it´s the best way to deal with losses. Imagine you ran 10 - 15 kilometers, including sprints and infights and 30 seconds after the game some random guy with a microphone comes and say "you lost 4:0 why?" What are your options hmmm... [ ] Well i was good but my teammates suck so it´s their fault [ ] The other club is better then mine so basically my club sucks [ ] it´s no ones fault because blaming the ref is like blaming rich people or politics: It´s a mystical creature and no one is hurt by blaming him. nah its different in football. its pretty much the by far worst and most unfair sport when it comes to ref decisions. i saw countless game that got decided by ref failure. it happens all the time and when it happens people have all right to bitch about it. fifa needs to fucking get a grip and introduce some basic technic to cut out all the bullshit. it doesnt apply to this game. no one can deny that bayern deserved atleast a 3:0 victory, the handball situation(s) and the offside not beeing that clear (even in replays its damn hard to tell and when in doubt decide pro attacker etc) etc. but in general refs and their (lack of) decisions are a HUGE problem in football.
For the referee discussion: I don't mind little mistakes but I wish the FIFA would finally implement TV proof for goals, penalties and red cards. But what I dislike most about football is the diving and acting by the players. It makes you feel like watching whiny little kids and not heroes.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=136013¤tpage=953#19060
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
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On April 24 2013 21:57 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 20:46 Ferrose wrote:On April 24 2013 19:56 Ysellian wrote:On April 24 2013 17:51 AsnSensation wrote:MVP I really can't believe just how badly he hit that ball, the guy has 0 confidence at the moment. Feel terrible for him Especially with people acting like he's the only one to blame for the loss... On April 24 2013 16:41 amatoer wrote:On April 24 2013 14:08 Ferrose wrote:
So basically Arsenal is the best team in Europe since we were the only ones to beat Bayern. : D Together with bate borisov, yes. And Leverkusen! On April 24 2013 18:06 La1 wrote:
Its really nice to see a spanish team cry after not having decisions go there way.. barca have always gone down easy and for once the ref didnt blow up on every silly little fall they had, Really happy that BM took them apart Remember when Arsenal beat Bayern and pretty much everyone on Bayern, especially Mueller, bitched to the ref practically the whole game? That was awesome. Guys everyone in every sport including referees is bitching on them. In professional it´s the best way to deal with losses. Imagine you ran 10 - 15 kilometers, including sprints and infights and 30 seconds after the game some random guy with a microphone comes and say "you lost 4:0 why?" What are your options hmmm... [ ] Well i was good but my teammates suck so it´s their fault [ ] The other club is better then mine so basically my club sucks [ ] it´s no ones fault because blaming the ref is like blaming rich people or politics: It´s a mystical creature and no one is hurt by blaming him.
? Some football squads obviously cry to refs more than others.
There's no bitching to refs in American football. That shit will immediately get you ejected.
Same thing in hockey.
I'm also pretty sure that cricket has an ultra-sensitive code of conduct where you have to automatically accept any ref's ruling.
As for the game, Dortmund has faced RM twice and went 1W 1D this campaign, so I don't think it'll be that easy for RM. Dortmund is coming off of a lot of energy, has been dominant in the Bundesliga since the quarters, and really wants this. Plus, Dortmund is absolutely incredible at home. I'm predicting 2-1 or 2-2 BVB-RM today, and then it'll be decided in Madrid in a really close game, where either one could go through.
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Yeah, I have no idea why we don't have the EPIC rules basketball has. Although it always struck me as kind of racist that you have these tiny little (usually) white referees punishing tall (usually) black players for rambunctious protests, it is an awesome aspect of Bball. Why we don't have 'technical' fouls for protesting too much I will never know. It should be a yellow card offence to both a referee. We would see referee protests down 95% if a ref gave like 10 yellow cards after getting mobbed xD.
The same thing should apply for diving. A panel of judges giving red cards for people adjudged to have dived would reduce diving by 95% immediately.
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On April 25 2013 00:11 sc4k wrote:
Yeah, I have no idea why we don't have the EPIC rules basketball has. Although it always struck me as kind of racist that you have these tiny little (usually) white referees punishing tall (usually) black players for rambunctious protests, it is an awesome aspect of Bball. Why we don't have 'technical' fouls for protesting too much I will never know. It should be a yellow card offence to both a referee. We would see referee protests down 95% if a ref gave like 10 yellow cards after getting mobbed xD.
The same thing should apply for diving. A panel of judges giving red cards for people adjudged to have dived would reduce diving by 95% immediately.
Good thoughts, but I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not about basketball. Basketball has the most crying and diving out of any American sport.
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EPT
