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On February 15 2012 20:44 KOVU wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 20:35 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:On February 15 2012 20:01 Osmoses wrote:On February 15 2012 18:31 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:So on July 4th 2011 I failed a 35kg deadlift with chalk and mixed grip. Yes, 35kg. Today I pulled 140kg (3 plates!) for five reps :D:D:D Gained 20kg~ since then aswell  Damn, that's some sweet progress right there, I was struggling like a little girl with 95kg this morning :p 4th of July 2011//15th feb, 2012 63kg//84kg Squat: 30kgx5//107kgx5 (high bar ATG) Bench: 40kgx2//75kgx5 Deadlift: 35x0.9//140kgx5 Press: 11kgx5//52kgx5 PowerClean: 11kgx3//70kgx5 When I just started Starting Strength, I also started working 70 hours in a French Restaurant. I think this is why my gains are not what they could have been. Anyways, I realised that the the main thing holding skinny kids like me back from looking awesome is not eating enough. So I made sure I ate enough haha, ate 'till I puked more than a few times in this period. But it shows lol at 35x0.9 You really made some sick progress, keep at it man. Do you really powerclean for 5 reps? I think that would cause me to pass out
I'm on Madcows 5x5, so a heavy x5 PR on Monday and a slightly heavier 3x PR on friday. I have gotten a little light headed on Pcleans, only ever passed out with OHP. But yeah there's space to fall back so it's fine.
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I decided, after reading further into the rippedbody.jp LG guide, to go on a cut instead of a recomp. Something about insulin when lean and stuff and all that noise sounded good to me. Also, I was relieved because I was actually having trouble eating all that food. +10% kcal rather than +20% on workout days sounded wonderful.
Unfortunately once I had actually gone and calculated my BMR correctly it turned out the amount I was suppoed to eat on a cut on workout days had not lessened compared to my previous ballpark recomp numbers. It had actually gone up slightly.
Now, I don't know how much "food" 3700 kcal translates into, but I really want to call bullshit on this app I'm using to calculate it, because this sure as hell don't feel like a cut to me. Feels more like I'm about to throw up. -_-
I just finished eating 300g of beef, 400g of mashed potatoes, 2 bananas and 1liter of skim milk and I'm still only at about 1600/3700 of my daily calorie intake. Does this sound reasonable? Or can I go ahead and throw this app away and get something else?
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Unless you weigh like 120kg, no that's not reasonable for a cut.
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That amount of food is at most 1600kcal, could easily be less. 400g of potatoes should be 280-300kcal, 2bananas=200kcal, Low-Fat Milk is 480kcal a liter here, which leaves around 600kcal for 300g of beef, which could be accurate, don't know what kind of meat beef is exactly.
To have an App for that is just a bit lazy in my opinion (unless you were eating out, then it is of course ok). If you want to know for sure, just study the food labels and use fitday, and you will get way more accurate results.
I don't know about your weight, but for reference, I burn ~4200kcal a day at 1256g BW, with basically training 5-7 times a week, but besides that having a mostly sedentary lifestyle.
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3700kcal sounds wrong, maybe you could show the numbers you used?
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On a leangains "cut" if you're lifting 3 days/week, you should be eating something like +10/-20% (or maybe 0/-15%) calories though, right?
So if your workout day is 3700 (which is high - I'm not on leangains, but at 193 cm and 85kg I can bulk by eating 3500/day, and that's with lifting 4x/week and cardio - rugby practice or lifeguarding class 4-5x/week) then your maintenance is ~3350, and that would mean on a rest day you only eat 2700. That thousand calorie swing is a pretty big deal, and averaged over the week it's going to put you on a pretty solid deficit.
Lifting 4 days/week would have something like +15/-30% AFAIK... so you would be doing 3700 on and 2200 off.
There's also the realization that you're putting a full days worth of calories into only 8-10 hours. That's going to require a change in the way your stomach is handling its food.
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On February 15 2012 22:37 rEiGN~ wrote:
3700kcal sounds wrong, maybe you could show the numbers you used?
BMR = 66+ ( 13.7 x 98 ) + ( 5 x 186 ) – ( 6.8 x 27 ) = 1408 + 930 - 183 = 2155
Maintenance = BMR * 1.55 = 3340
LG Cut = +10% / -35%
Cut work = 3340 * 1.10 = 3674
Cut rest = 3340 * 0.65 = 2171
I consider my activity level at 1.55 because I workout 3 times a week doing the big three routine, which is basically squat bench and deadlift RPT. Other than that I have a deskjob, fairly sedentary.
On February 15 2012 22:33 Malinor wrote:
To have an App for that is just a bit lazy in my opinion (unless you were eating out, then it is of course ok). If you want to know for sure, just study the food labels and use fitday, and you will get way more accurate results.
I eat basically meat, potatoes and veggies every day and I figured a steak is a steak is a steak, who could tell you the kcal of any individual steak? Same with potatoes I imagine, and there's very little kcal in veggies. Also pretty convenient to always have the app with me so I can just one-click look up my shopping list on my phone, would recommend it if I wasn't so sure it was lying to me.
On February 15 2012 22:50 phyre112 wrote:
On a leangains "cut" if you're lifting 3 days/week, you should be eating something like +10/-20% (or maybe 0/-15%) calories though, right?
So if your workout day is 3700 (which is high - I'm not on leangains, but at 193 cm and 85kg I can bulk by eating 3500/day, and that's with lifting 4x/week and cardio - rugby practice or lifeguarding class 4-5x/week) then your maintenance is ~3350, and that would mean on a rest day you only eat 2700. That thousand calorie swing is a pretty big deal, and averaged over the week it's going to put you on a pretty solid deficit.
Lifting 4 days/week would have something like +15/-30% AFAIK... so you would be doing 3700 on and 2200 off.
There's also the realization that you're putting a full days worth of calories into only 8-10 hours. That's going to require a change in the way your stomach is handling its food.
If these numbers are in fact correct I guess I just gotta man up until my stomach has stretched itself out a little. Never thought I'd feel this full on a diet :p
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On February 16 2012 03:02 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 22:37 rEiGN~ wrote:
3700kcal sounds wrong, maybe you could show the numbers you used? BMR = 66+ ( 13.7 x 98 ) + ( 5 x 186 ) – ( 6.8 x 27 ) = 1408 + 930 - 183 = 2155 Maintenance = BMR * 1.55 = 3340 LG Cut = +10% / -35% Cut work = 3340 * 1.10 = 3674 Cut rest = 3340 * 0.65 = 2171 I consider my activity level at 1.55 because I workout 3 times a week doing the big three routine, which is basically squat bench and deadlift RPT. Other than that I have a deskjob, fairly sedentary. Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 22:33 Malinor wrote:
To have an App for that is just a bit lazy in my opinion (unless you were eating out, then it is of course ok). If you want to know for sure, just study the food labels and use fitday, and you will get way more accurate results. I eat basically meat, potatoes and veggies every day and I figured a steak is a steak is a steak, who could tell you the kcal of any individual steak? Same with potatoes I imagine, and there's very little kcal in veggies. Also pretty convenient to always have the app with me so I can just one-click look up my shopping list on my phone, would recommend it if I wasn't so sure it was lying to me.
You are of course right, if you only eat fresh veggies and meat, a pretty reliable app should do. When in doubt, you can just check the kcal of your app against 3-4 online sources and then see how it matches up. Given my above very basic calculations, your app could very well be accurate enough.
Meat is a bit tricky I feel, I have ~20 different kind of meats saved in my Fitday account, so in my opinion a steak really isn't just a steak. Though I cook at home and normally have access to the nutritional labels. So if you eat out, you basically have to guess.
Your calculation could be fine. It comes down to 2800-2900kcal a day, so if you are active and your body weight is high enough, this can very well be a slow cut (I don't know which value is BW in the above formula... probably the 186 in lb or the 98in kg?).
edit: Ok, if Zafrumis numbers are correct, 186cm at 98kg, this calorie intake seems completely reasonable.
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On February 16 2012 03:02 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 22:37 rEiGN~ wrote:
3700kcal sounds wrong, maybe you could show the numbers you used? BMR = 66+ ( 13.7 x 98 ) + ( 5 x 186 ) – ( 6.8 x 27 ) = 1408 + 930 - 183 = 2155 Maintenance = BMR * 1.55 = 3340 LG Cut = +10% / -35% Cut work = 3340 * 1.10 = 3674 Cut rest = 3340 * 0.65 = 2171 I consider my activity level at 1.55 because I workout 3 times a week doing the big three routine, which is basically squat bench and deadlift RPT. Other than that I have a deskjob, fairly sedentary. Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 22:33 Malinor wrote:
To have an App for that is just a bit lazy in my opinion (unless you were eating out, then it is of course ok). If you want to know for sure, just study the food labels and use fitday, and you will get way more accurate results. I eat basically meat, potatoes and veggies every day and I figured a steak is a steak is a steak, who could tell you the kcal of any individual steak? Same with potatoes I imagine, and there's very little kcal in veggies. Also pretty convenient to always have the app with me so I can just one-click look up my shopping list on my phone, would recommend it if I wasn't so sure it was lying to me. Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 22:50 phyre112 wrote:
On a leangains "cut" if you're lifting 3 days/week, you should be eating something like +10/-20% (or maybe 0/-15%) calories though, right?
So if your workout day is 3700 (which is high - I'm not on leangains, but at 193 cm and 85kg I can bulk by eating 3500/day, and that's with lifting 4x/week and cardio - rugby practice or lifeguarding class 4-5x/week) then your maintenance is ~3350, and that would mean on a rest day you only eat 2700. That thousand calorie swing is a pretty big deal, and averaged over the week it's going to put you on a pretty solid deficit.
Lifting 4 days/week would have something like +15/-30% AFAIK... so you would be doing 3700 on and 2200 off.
There's also the realization that you're putting a full days worth of calories into only 8-10 hours. That's going to require a change in the way your stomach is handling its food. If these numbers are in fact correct I guess I just gotta man up until my stomach has stretched itself out a little. Never thought I'd feel this full on a diet :p
when I type your numbers (186cm, 98kg, 27y) into http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/ I get:
BMR: 2014
rest day caloric intake: 2029 (actually below the recommended amount... maybe go for -30%)
workout day: 3433
seems about right for a guy your size. maybe you have to start eating foods that are more calorically dense than potatoes and veggies.
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On February 15 2012 20:35 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 20:01 Osmoses wrote:On February 15 2012 18:31 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:So on July 4th 2011 I failed a 35kg deadlift with chalk and mixed grip. Yes, 35kg. Today I pulled 140kg (3 plates!) for five reps :D:D:D Gained 20kg~ since then aswell Damn, that's some sweet progress right there, I was struggling like a little girl with 95kg this morning :p 4th of July 2011//15th feb, 2012 63kg//84kg Squat: 30kgx5//107kgx5 (high bar ATG) Bench: 40kgx2//75kgx5 Deadlift: 35x0.9//140kgx5 Press: 11kgx5//52kgx5 PowerClean: 11kgx3//70kgx5 When I just started Starting Strength, I also started working 70 hours in a French Restaurant. I think this is why my gains are not what they could have been. Anyways, I realised that the the main thing holding skinny kids like me back from looking awesome is not eating enough. So I made sure I ate enough haha, ate 'till I puked more than a few times in this period. But it shows
Nicely done man! Those are some impressive stats.
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Late starting:
Name: Deadeight
Age: 22 || Height: 6'2" || Weight: 85kg
Starting Date: 15/02/2012 || Goal Date: 01/09/2012
Weight goals -- Maintain similar weight, maybe increase slightly. I have stopped rowing and aim to not put on any fat, which will be difficult after eating so much, now I'm switching to rugby/weights I will have to curb my eating.
Training goals -- Increase the weight I'm lifting. I have spent a couple of years doing weights specific to rowing, and I'm pretty much all slow twitch. I want to be able to 1rm 150kg for a squat by september this year. Going to train hard. Current 1rm for a squat is 115kg, but I can do 5 of them. 117.5kg? Can't do it... knees come in.
Nutrition goals -- None, my girlfriend is on placement here at my uni this year and she does the cooking, eating 100 times better than I have since I moved out of my parents house.
Sleep goals -- Go to be earlier, wake at 7:30 or earlier every day.
Misc/stress goals -- Lose 0% of the time to bunker rushes and hellion harass.
Still researching how I'm going to change my workout. I tried 5x5 for the last month but afterwards it feels like I've barely done anything, even though I can't do a higher weight.
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You can eat quite a lot on workout days on Leangains (which is one of the reasons why it's so awesome). I was losing 0.5kg a week with something like 3.5k/2-2.5k.
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On February 16 2012 04:09 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 20:35 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:On February 15 2012 20:01 Osmoses wrote:On February 15 2012 18:31 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:So on July 4th 2011 I failed a 35kg deadlift with chalk and mixed grip. Yes, 35kg. Today I pulled 140kg (3 plates!) for five reps :D:D:D Gained 20kg~ since then aswell Damn, that's some sweet progress right there, I was struggling like a little girl with 95kg this morning :p 4th of July 2011//15th feb, 2012 63kg//84kg Squat: 30kgx5//107kgx5 (high bar ATG) Bench: 40kgx2//75kgx5 Deadlift: 35x0.9//140kgx5 Press: 11kgx5//52kgx5 PowerClean: 11kgx3//70kgx5 When I just started Starting Strength, I also started working 70 hours in a French Restaurant. I think this is why my gains are not what they could have been. Anyways, I realised that the the main thing holding skinny kids like me back from looking awesome is not eating enough. So I made sure I ate enough haha, ate 'till I puked more than a few times in this period. But it shows Nicely done man! Those are some impressive stats.
Big words from Mr. Transformation himself
To all the people who sent me PM's asking for pics: I'm at the top of my bulk atm. Gonna cut for a few weeks and then post the before/afters. Found one with me at 60kg~ in only swimming trunks. You won't believe the amount of tone. Everything about that body says I do a mean Kipping pull-up.
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South Africa4316 Posts
On February 16 2012 03:02 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 22:37 rEiGN~ wrote:
3700kcal sounds wrong, maybe you could show the numbers you used? BMR = 66+ ( 13.7 x 98 ) + ( 5 x 186 ) – ( 6.8 x 27 ) = 1408 + 930 - 183 = 2155 Maintenance = BMR * 1.55 = 3340 LG Cut = +10% / -35% Cut work = 3340 * 1.10 = 3674 Cut rest = 3340 * 0.65 = 2171 I consider my activity level at 1.55 because I workout 3 times a week doing the big three routine, which is basically squat bench and deadlift RPT. Other than that I have a deskjob, fairly sedentary.
If your daily job is sedentary then your activity level is sedentary. The guy on rippedbody.jp specifically says that the biggest mistake people make is exaggerating their activity level. My GF has a workout monitor thing, and I can tell you that on a normal day of SS you burn between 350-500 calories. Now, if we take your BMR and assume a sedentary lifestyle:
2155 * 1.2 = 2586
That means, excluding gym, you're burning 18100 calories a week, and with gym, that's an additional 500 * 3 = 1500 which gives 19600. On the other hand, with an activity level of 1.55 you get 3340 which equals 23380 calories a week, which is about 4000 calories a week too much. I made the same mistake when I started with SS and I picked up 10kgs in just over 4 months. It's not that much, but I was clearly eating roughly 500 calories a day more than I was burning. I'm now down to 2480 calories a day (and an extra 500 calories on workout days) and I've been maintaining my weight for a few weeks.
If you really need an activity level that's not sedentary, take 19600 / 7 and divide that by 2155. That gives an activity level of almost exactly 1.3.
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I was going to agree with Diagomi - 1.55 is far too high for lifting 3x/week and little else.
For example, I would give myself "moderately active" which is around a 1.4x multiplier, and I spend ~8 hours/week lifting and 10 hours/week doing cardio, outside of that being sedentary besides walking to class (and dancing at parties. oops). I would consider "very active" which is ~1.55 multiplier to be someone who has my gym and cardio schedule plus a job that has them on their feet all day, and an "extra active" to be a professional athlete.
@CT thanks for providing me motivation. You've caught up to me and I've been at this waaaaay longer than you have. I'm leaner with the same numbers (I'd estimate 12-13%bf?), but that doesn't count for much especially with you cutting =(
Just looked up my numbers on 1percentedge.... by the time I get to my 225 lb bodyweight goal (@malinor coming for you bro) they've got me eating 4300 cals on my workout days, and 2900 on my rest days. Should only gain 2.5% bodyfat in the process though? I think I'll attempt to hit the pure weight goal by traditional methods - at 1lb/week that should take me until the week of my 22nd birthday. No need to plan things out that far, but it would conveniently leave four months for a recomp. I like the sound of it.
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Thanks for the input, I read off a website that 1.55 was so-called "moderately active", always good to check your sources I guess. =)
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On February 15 2012 18:31 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:So on July 4th 2011 I failed a 35kg deadlift with chalk and mixed grip. Yes, 35kg. Today I pulled 140kg (3 plates!) for five reps :D:D:D Gained 20kg~ since then aswell
gg
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Boo I failed my squats hard today. Right away I felt one of those exertion headaches coming on and I could barely even get out of the hole on my work sets (195lbs, bitchy small I know). I quit squatting and took a break after only completing 3 sets of 2 @ 195. Ugh. At least I pressed and PC'd no problem after that. Then I was actually feeling good so I thought I'd try another set of squats with 185. I managed to squat a full 5 reps with only a mild headache and then did another 2 bonus.
Day looked something like this...
Squat - 195 x 3sets x 2reps
Press - 75 x 3 x 5
PC - 105 x 5 x 3
Squat - 185 x 1 x 5 followed by 185 x 1 x 2
Still pissed that I missed my squat goal for the day. The bar was coming up nice and easy until I started to get a headache.
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could have been a lot worse :D
i think i do the same thing when i fail my sets - i chuck off a load of weight and then do some light high-rep sets. you leave feeling like you've done something then.
like the other day i done OHP 5-1-1, then reduced weight by 10kg and done another 12-11 and felt alright about myself afterwards , having done decent "volume"
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Yeah, two weeks ago I tried to push through that kind of dizziness you get whilst squatting and I felt really faint. I stumbled my way across the gym and walked too close to someone and my hand got hit when they threw a bar up (my fault), there was a blood etc and I fainted. Luckily I'd managed to sit down by that point.
I think it was partly I hadn't had enough sugar.
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EPT
