EPTTL Health and Fitness Initiative 2012 - Page 343
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On October 11 2012 00:05 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: BTW: Last year we have the November progress pics. You guys make it tradition that we post update pics twice a year; once in Jan when the new thread is made, and once in June or so after summer cut? I'm done with cutting, I'll post some progress pics when I get home. I think I did pretty well (: | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On October 11 2012 09:41 Ludrik wrote: You've got it backwards. Summer ends at the end of February.[/southern hemisphere elitism] +1 =D | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
It's not even really a routine yet since I don't really know exactly what my "goal" is. I figure I'll go in twice a day focusing on squat/push/pull exercises. Not bothering with any splitting, just pound my body day after day and hope it adapts. Not really worried about burning out... getting my ass kicked by chicks at that TM is all the motivation I need. Any specific lifts you guys think I should test out for this new "routine"? Current figures should be something below, but not too far below, where I last was (I think like 240 squat, 300ish deadlift, 190 bench, 150 OHP, 170 power clean all in lbs). Would love to train some of the oly lifts, but they aren't allowed in the NAU gym (only power cleans) and I'm not willing to go sign up for a Crossfit gym just to try them out. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On October 11 2012 07:23 GuiltyJerk wrote: Maybe it's been too long since I read SS but I seem to recall him saying you should imagine trying to squeeze and hold some object between your scapula while benching Yeah I thought he meant pressing, not bench pressing.  | ||
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kaluro
Netherlands760 Posts
On October 11 2012 07:08 GoTuNk! wrote: wtf shrugging while pressing is terrible. You actually have to do the EXACT opposite, pull shoulders down into your back. I have been bodybuilding for 6 years now, I'm not just copying some random broscience I might've picked up somewhere. If you have a deskjob and/or you spend a lot of time at the computer, your shoulders are bound to be pulled forward a bit. This is because your pectoralis major will become shorter and your mid/lower trapezius becomes weaker, less tensed. People with deskjobs often get painful shoulders when benching while keeping their shoulders back and down(towards your legs). For those people, it's often better to pull your shoulders back and UP and keep them there. The shrugging is a static hold, not a motion. You just keep your shoulderblades tucked back like usual, but instead of pressing your shoulders downwards towards your legs, you shrug and hold them upwards, towards your head. It also depends on genetics and anatomy in general. Some people experience painful shoulders while bench pressing, unless they also shrug/hold their shoulders up. I bench press while holding my shoulders back and up, saves me shoulder pain. Also I don't get how shrugging your shoulders upwards is the opposite of holding them back? Holding your shoulders back is done by pressing your scapula into the bench, and firmly holding them there. Shrugging and statically holding your shoulders upwards is a synergizing movement, not an opposite movement. One is a vertical movement, the other one a horizontal one. So the idea is to hold your shoulders back AND upwards. You won't lose tension in your trapezius/shoulder area while doing so, but it does relieve shoulder pain for a lot of people, while pressing. Especially those who spend a lot of time at the computer. On October 11 2012 10:36 infinity21 wrote: Grrr I hate having to eat so much. Makes me all sleepy and can't be productive. But if I don't eat a shitton, I start getting weaker Mind postiing your food plan? If any, eating a lot of food should make you more energetic, provided you aren't bulking with a load of simple carbohydrates. I'm on a 4700kcal diet, of which 600g is carbohydrates, and I feel more lively than ever. I feel super energetic and fit. Don't blame it on the kcal amount, start searching for other causes. For example, you might feel much fitter if you start doing (more) regular cardiovascular workouts. On October 09 2012 09:23 GoTuNk! wrote: Awesome bench session today. 107.5x3, 115x3, 122.5x3 (rep PR), 130x1 As for everything, you need to find what works for you. I think major shoulder killer is not pushing shoulder down and back into the back (opposite of shruggin) and not arching enough. When you arch a lot you remove the most vulnerable position from your shoulders by reducing the ROM. I think that unless you are into powerlifting Incline BP is best to build strength and better aesthetics. Never do decline, man boobs suck. Actually, there have been a lot of recent up to date studies which show no increased activity in the upper pectoralis major with the incline press. The lower pectoralis major becomes less active and the front deltoids become more active, the upper pecs show no difference. Currently the only proven exercise to activate the upper pecs more, is the guillotine press. Though, this press has a lot of downsides and I wouldn't recommend doing them. Or a reversed grip bench press, for that matter. If you want to really activate your upper pecs as much as possible, I'd say do flat dumbell presses. The more incline you go, the less weight you can handle, the lower the load on your upper pecs. Flat press -> 100kg load on your upper pecs Incline press -> 80kg load on your upper pecs They both have the same activity on the upper pecs, but just shift the activity towards the shoulders more. So for pure upper pec development, flat bench pressing is better, as there's a higher load on the same activity. It's often still a misconception that the upper pecs are activated more with incline presses, since upper and incline sound alike right? :-). But it just increases shoulder tension, sadly. When your upper pecs fall behind, it's often a matter of genetics and/or having not enough mass on your chest, it's not a matter of doing the wrong exercises. When you see people with underdevelopped upper pecs, they are likely not doing anything wrong, they just don't have the genetics and/or have a small chest. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
 Not a whole lot I can do besides sleeping a lot. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On October 11 2012 18:45 kaluro wrote: Mind postiing your food plan? If any, eating a lot of food should make you more energetic, provided you aren't bulking with a load of simple carbohydrates. I'm on a 4700kcal diet, of which 600g is carbohydrates, and I feel more lively than ever. I feel super energetic and fit. Don't blame it on the kcal amount, start searching for other causes. For example, you might feel much fitter if you start doing (more) regular cardiovascular workouts. I don't have a set food plan. I just cook what I have. The issue with me is when I get preoccupied with work, I often don't eat until quite late in the day so it ends up being quite difficult to eat that much. I don't think cardio would help with the sleepiness caused by the digestion process. If you have studies to back that up I'll start running the next day lol Regardless, I'm making an effort to eat more and sleep more so hopefully my training will get back on track. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On October 11 2012 10:38 Cambium wrote: I'm done with cutting, I'll post some progress pics when I get home. I think I did pretty well (: 20120806 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20968/photos/rand/20120806.jpg) 20120908 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20968/photos/rand/20120908.jpg) 20121006 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20968/photos/rand/20121006.jpg) | ||
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kaluro
Netherlands760 Posts
On October 12 2012 00:08 infinity21 wrote: I don't have a set food plan. I just cook what I have. The issue with me is when I get preoccupied with work, I often don't eat until quite late in the day so it ends up being quite difficult to eat that much. I don't think cardio would help with the sleepiness caused by the digestion process. If you have studies to back that up I'll start running the next day lol Regardless, I'm making an effort to eat more and sleep more so hopefully my training will get back on track. I hear you, I had a 50 hour/week job for 3 to 4 years.. what I would do, is put tons of chicken under the grill, make fish/other meat, potatoes, rice and just get those plastic tupperware holders and put my meals in there for the next 3 days. mashed sweet potatoes is also a huge recommendation, tastes great - even cold! This allows me to just take my food to work and quickly eat it in an available timeframe. I believe that everyone following an 40 hour/week job+, is entitled to 2x 15 minute breaks and 1x 30 minute break, at the very least. So in that 15 minute time window, you can quickly throw the meal into the microwave and eat it nice and warm ;-) ------------ And sadly, I don't have any studies for you as it is now, just personal experience. I had periods where I'd feel sleepy, tired, drowzy and as if I had no energy at all.. That's when I was eating 4500+kcal a day and slept for 6 to 8 hours. I didn't do any cardio at all since I have a super fast metabolism ( my fat % never reached >12%, even though I'm eating like a horse) and wanted to safe all the available kcal for growth. I also thought it was because of the insane kcal amounts I'd be taking, but later I found out it was because I didn't do any cardio. A week after I picked up some minor cardio (30 minutes of jogging, 3 times a week), I felt super lively and energetic throughout the day. The digestion process can make you a bit "tired", but it shouldn't be insanely noticeable and powerful. It should just be a tiiiiiiny dip, if any. ------------ What I do notice is that, when I, for example, don't eat my second meal at 10AM, I start feeling super shaky and cold at 10:30 AM, like... withdrawal signs. It's pretty awkward and annoying o_o I developed that over time as I started eating my meals at set times. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4740 Posts
On October 12 2012 00:22 Cambium wrote: 20120806 + Show Spoiler + 20120908 + Show Spoiler + 20121006 + Show Spoiler + I don't see a difference between the 2nd and 3rd picture. There is a difference between the 1st and the later two, but for my taste you don't necessarily look better in the later ones. Sorry . Still an impressive physique, I mostly remember your legs from the Deadlift video, and those were nice. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
 I just wanted to see if I actually go through with cutting, and I guess I kind of did... (the month b/w Sept and Oct was really hard to cut further actually, lost only about 1 kg)Well, it's getting cold, and time to put on some weight :D | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On October 11 2012 18:45 kaluro wrote: I have been bodybuilding for 6 years now, I'm not just copying some random broscience I might've picked up somewhere. If you have a deskjob and/or you spend a lot of time at the computer, your shoulders are bound to be pulled forward a bit. This is because your pectoralis major will become shorter and your mid/lower trapezius becomes weaker, less tensed. People with deskjobs often get painful shoulders when benching while keeping their shoulders back and down(towards your legs). For those people, it's often better to pull your shoulders back and UP and keep them there. The shrugging is a static hold, not a motion. You just keep your shoulderblades tucked back like usual, but instead of pressing your shoulders downwards towards your legs, you shrug and hold them upwards, towards your head. It also depends on genetics and anatomy in general. Some people experience painful shoulders while bench pressing, unless they also shrug/hold their shoulders up. I bench press while holding my shoulders back and up, saves me shoulder pain. Also I don't get how shrugging your shoulders upwards is the opposite of holding them back? Holding your shoulders back is done by pressing your scapula into the bench, and firmly holding them there. Shrugging and statically holding your shoulders upwards is a synergizing movement, not an opposite movement. One is a vertical movement, the other one a horizontal one. So the idea is to hold your shoulders back AND upwards. You won't lose tension in your trapezius/shoulder area while doing so, but it does relieve shoulder pain for a lot of people, while pressing. Especially those who spend a lot of time at the computer. Mind postiing your food plan? If any, eating a lot of food should make you more energetic, provided you aren't bulking with a load of simple carbohydrates. I'm on a 4700kcal diet, of which 600g is carbohydrates, and I feel more lively than ever. I feel super energetic and fit. Don't blame it on the kcal amount, start searching for other causes. For example, you might feel much fitter if you start doing (more) regular cardiovascular workouts. Actually, there have been a lot of recent up to date studies which show no increased activity in the upper pectoralis major with the incline press. The lower pectoralis major becomes less active and the front deltoids become more active, the upper pecs show no difference. Currently the only proven exercise to activate the upper pecs more, is the guillotine press. Though, this press has a lot of downsides and I wouldn't recommend doing them. Or a reversed grip bench press, for that matter. If you want to really activate your upper pecs as much as possible, I'd say do flat dumbell presses. The more incline you go, the less weight you can handle, the lower the load on your upper pecs. Flat press -> 100kg load on your upper pecs Incline press -> 80kg load on your upper pecs They both have the same activity on the upper pecs, but just shift the activity towards the shoulders more. So for pure upper pec development, flat bench pressing is better, as there's a higher load on the same activity. It's often still a misconception that the upper pecs are activated more with incline presses, since upper and incline sound alike right? :-). But it just increases shoulder tension, sadly. When your upper pecs fall behind, it's often a matter of genetics and/or having not enough mass on your chest, it's not a matter of doing the wrong exercises. When you see people with underdevelopped upper pecs, they are likely not doing anything wrong, they just don't have the genetics and/or have a small chest. I'm sorry, I just can't see how shruggin the shoulders can be good for benching. I'm sure in every powerlifting book and every lifter I've ever heard, its always BACK and DOWN (I agree u can do BACK and UP, but no way that is more stable than down). I do have terrible posture, and I know my shoulders would fuck up if it wasn't by holding it down. I think flat DB press suck. You are either too weak, and will benefit more from Barbell BP or you are too strong and need a bunch of guys handing you the dumbbells for the weight you actually need. Plus wrist strength becomes a limiting factor. I agree that flat BP activates upper pecs more than incline BP. I meant, for aesthetic purposes its better to train incline because what looks good are big shoulders, not big pecs. Once you hit a minimum pec development it just looks bad to add more mass on the lower pecs, whereas the "shredded" look most people seem to be after comes from big shoulder, traps, more developed upper than lower chest, and low bodyfat. I train for powerlifting and my BP skyrockets when I start benching a lot (5 times a week), but for aesthetics I would just stop benching at all and do OHP/Incline. That said, awesome bp session today (only day I don't squat/do back) BP: (3sec pause) 110x2x3, 117.5x2x3, 125x2x3, (1 sec pause) 132.5x1 117.5 felt like shit and heavy as hell, and my arms ached. But I just mentally pushed myself trough it, arched even harder and got all the remaining sets, despite 132.5 was nearly a failure. I kinda got the same feeling of inner energy than squatting, which I usually dont at all benching. While I don't have any clue about oly lifting, I find this Q/A very inspirational and worth reading. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=122395951&page=1 | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On October 12 2012 00:40 kaluro wrote: I hear you, I had a 50 hour/week job for 3 to 4 years.. what I would do, is put tons of chicken under the grill, make fish/other meat, potatoes, rice and just get those plastic tupperware holders and put my meals in there for the next 3 days. mashed sweet potatoes is also a huge recommendation, tastes great - even cold! This allows me to just take my food to work and quickly eat it in an available timeframe. I believe that everyone following an 40 hour/week job+, is entitled to 2x 15 minute breaks and 1x 30 minute break, at the very least. So in that 15 minute time window, you can quickly throw the meal into the microwave and eat it nice and warm ;-) ------------ And sadly, I don't have any studies for you as it is now, just personal experience. I had periods where I'd feel sleepy, tired, drowzy and as if I had no energy at all.. That's when I was eating 4500+kcal a day and slept for 6 to 8 hours. I didn't do any cardio at all since I have a super fast metabolism ( my fat % never reached >12%, even though I'm eating like a horse) and wanted to safe all the available kcal for growth. I also thought it was because of the insane kcal amounts I'd be taking, but later I found out it was because I didn't do any cardio. A week after I picked up some minor cardio (30 minutes of jogging, 3 times a week), I felt super lively and energetic throughout the day. The digestion process can make you a bit "tired", but it shouldn't be insanely noticeable and powerful. It should just be a tiiiiiiny dip, if any. ------------ What I do notice is that, when I, for example, don't eat my second meal at 10AM, I start feeling super shaky and cold at 10:30 AM, like... withdrawal signs. It's pretty awkward and annoying o_o I developed that over time as I started eating my meals at set times. I'll try the mashed sweet potatoes, thanks. I'm very picky with my meat though so I would never heat up something like steak or ribs. Could try that with chicken thighs (I can't eat dry meat). | ||
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kaluro
Netherlands760 Posts
On October 12 2012 03:36 GoTuNk! wrote: I'm sorry, I just can't see how shruggin the shoulders can be good for benching. I'm sure in every powerlifting book and every lifter I've ever heard, its always BACK and DOWN (I agree u can do BACK and UP, but no way that is more stable than down). I do have terrible posture, and I know my shoulders would fuck up if it wasn't by holding it down. I think flat DB press suck. You are either too weak, and will benefit more from Barbell BP or you are too strong and need a bunch of guys handing you the dumbbells for the weight you actually need. Plus wrist strength becomes a limiting factor. I agree that flat BP activates upper pecs more than incline BP. I meant, for aesthetic purposes its better to train incline because what looks good are big shoulders, not big pecs. Once you hit a minimum pec development it just looks bad to add more mass on the lower pecs, whereas the "shredded" look most people seem to be after comes from big shoulder, traps, more developed upper than lower chest, and low bodyfat. I train for powerlifting and my BP skyrockets when I start benching a lot (5 times a week), but for aesthetics I would just stop benching at all and do OHP/Incline. That said, awesome bp session today (only day I don't squat/do back) BP: (3sec pause) 110x2x3, 117.5x2x3, 125x2x3, (1 sec pause) 132.5x1 117.5 felt like shit and heavy as hell, and my arms ached. But I just mentally pushed myself trough it, arched even harder and got all the remaining sets, despite 132.5 was nearly a failure. I kinda got the same feeling of inner energy than squatting, which I usually dont at all benching. While I don't have any clue about oly lifting, I find this Q/A very inspirational and worth reading. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=122395951&page=1 Back and up is no less stable than back and down, it's just a different type of stress on your shoulders. It varies per person whether back and down or back and up is favoured. It is by no means inferior when comparing the two. Also, it might be a good idea to put down either lbs or kg, seeing it's an international forum .I'd say pec development should be at par with the rest of your development, from an aesthetic view. A lot of people already have underdevelopped pecs from not being able to really address the muscle properly in compound exercises, and/or general genetics. I'd say the flat DB press and cable flyes are the best upper and lower pec development exercises. | ||
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kaluro
Netherlands760 Posts
On October 12 2012 04:01 infinity21 wrote: I'll try the mashed sweet potatoes, thanks. I'm very picky with my meat though so I would never heat up something like steak or ribs. Could try that with chicken thighs (I can't eat dry meat). Yeah just cut the chicken up after grilling/cooking it. If you put it under the grill, it will retain more of its fluids and will become dry less quickly, so if you microwave it, it won't be super dry. If you put it in a pan and bake it for 15 minutes, it'll become dry when reheating it. Also, fish and shrimps stay really tasty even when reheated. It's smelly though ;-). You could also try eggs.. either boiled or baked. Cut up baked egg in between the rice does its job. Just try different stuff, trial and error. I agree that steak shouldn't be reheated.. I don't eat pork ribs myself really. Chicken drumsticks also work. Edit: If you're really short on time, you could always opt for bringing a shake to work. Put in 100 to 150g of oatmeal powder, along with 40 to 60 grams of either whey protein or a mix of whey, egg and cassein protein(They sell that, too.). Then just have some milk in the fridge or use water and add 500ml of it, and voila. 700 to 900kcal shake! | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On October 12 2012 04:01 kaluro wrote: Back and up is no less stable than back and down, it's just a different type of stress on your shoulders. It varies per person whether back and down or back and up is favoured. It is by no means inferior when comparing the two. Also, it might be a good idea to put down either lbs or kg, seeing it's an international forum .I'd say pec development should be at par with the rest of your development, from an aesthetic view. A lot of people already have underdevelopped pecs from not being able to really address the muscle properly in compound exercises, and/or general genetics. I'd say the flat DB press and cable flyes are the best upper and lower pec development exercises. Its in kg's. Could you link me to any source that says shrugging is good? I've only heards crossfitters say that, and well they dont even bench, My point is that when DB presses or Cable flyes become useful, 99% your pecs are big enough. The only exception I can think off is training for Body Buildling (not looking good) specifically. Like, its impossible to have underdeveloped pecs when you can bench 1.5 bodyweight, and I don't think you need any assistance lift to get there, just more Barbell Benching. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On October 12 2012 03:36 GoTuNk! wrote: While I don't have any clue about oly lifting, I find this Q/A very inspirational and worth reading. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=122395951&page=1 Thanks for sharing. Some cool gems I got out of it so far that I'm going to try and absorb: -Speed being critical (from an oly -> athletic standpoint, not powerlifting) -Push presses more helpful for upper body strength -Training more frequently prevents recovered muscles from maxing to hard for not-recovered other tissues | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17742 Posts
On October 12 2012 00:22 Cambium wrote: 20120806 + Show Spoiler + 20120908 + Show Spoiler + 20121006 + Show Spoiler + What was your weight before and after? | ||
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funkie
Venezuela9376 Posts
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