EPTBodyweight Training - Page 7
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NonY
8748 Posts
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emjaytron
Australia544 Posts
Interesting that you bring up wrist strengh NoNY, I always wonder how heavy resistance training affects the wrists of someone who plays a lot of starcraft. I personally struggle with a big benchpress session or cleans and playing a lot of games in the same day. You see videos of IdrA benching 200lb and wonder what his wrist health is like. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On February 17 2012 05:37 Liquid`NonY wrote: I'm having a lot of fun and seeing good progress with bodyweight training! Overcoming Gravity is such a wealth of information =] I started with such weak wrists and shoulders. It feels so satisfying to finally strengthen them and start working toward full body strength and flexibility. Although I'm prioritizing hypertrophy atm, as soon as I get my vanity out of the way I'll get strength going full steam. Haven't done anything impressive yet but I'll get there one workout at a time! Anyway I don't have any questions, just wanted to drop in and say that I'm quite enjoying this approach. Awesome. Yeah, feel free to throw up some Q's if you have them. Don't forget to throw up a review on Amazon too.  | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On February 17 2012 06:06 emjaytron wrote: I've tried doing single leg squats a variety of ways, pistols, leg behind me, on a box with my leg going straight down, on a decline board, and never quite found a comfortable way. I still think they are a great exercise (I squat almost double BW with a bar), is there a particular method that maximises the benefits that I should try more? Interesting that you bring up wrist strengh NoNY, I always wonder how heavy resistance training affects the wrists of someone who plays a lot of starcraft. I personally struggle with a big benchpress session or cleans and playing a lot of games in the same day. You see videos of IdrA benching 200lb and wonder what his wrist health is like. It's never really comfortable when you don't have good mobility and balance. Only thing that makes it much better is a lot of practice. So like if strength is not a factor for them throw a bunch in your warm ups and work them as often as you can. As you get better you should get more comfortable with them | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
So I'm still running every day because I like running. I like doing three intense running workouts a week, while doing easy recovery runs on the other four days. For bodyweight training, I'm doing 2 push and 2 pull exercises three times a week, as well as some supplemental wrist strengthening exercises and standard warmup/prehabilitation/stretching. It seems pretty clear to me that I should schedule something like running MON WED SAT and bodyweight training TUES THURS SUN, while doing my easy running on bodyweight days immediately after the bodyweight training. Is this correct? It is also an option for me to do one in the AM and one in the PM. I prefer to do them together but if there's reason to believe splitting them would be better, I'd do it. Also, when I do bodyweight training immediately followed by an easy run, when is the best time to drink my milk? =] I have no problem drinking my full serving of milk and then doing easy running. But I am still lowering my body fat percentage so if I can get a better fat burn by saving that sugar and protein until after the run, I might prefer that. Oh and what's a recommended amount of milk to drink post workout? | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On February 17 2012 09:07 Liquid`NonY wrote: Actually I thought of a few questions. they're not really specific to bodyweight training, hope that's okay. So I'm still running every day because I like running. I like doing three intense running workouts a week, while doing easy recovery runs on the other four days. For bodyweight training, I'm doing 2 push and 2 pull exercises three times a week, as well as some supplemental wrist strengthening exercises and standard warmup/prehabilitation/stretching. It seems pretty clear to me that I should schedule something like running MON WED SAT and bodyweight training TUES THURS SUN, while doing my easy running on bodyweight days immediately after the bodyweight training. Is this correct? It is also an option for me to do one in the AM and one in the PM. I prefer to do them together but if there's reason to believe splitting them would be better, I'd do it. Also, when I do bodyweight training immediately followed by an easy run, when is the best time to drink my milk? =] I have no problem drinking my full serving of milk and then doing easy running. But I am still lowering my body fat percentage so if I can get a better fat burn by saving that sugar and protein until after the run, I might prefer that. Oh and what's a recommended amount of milk to drink post workout? Well, there's two schools of thought here. Do most of the hard work on your workout days (so that would mean doing your bodyweight work + hard workouts afterward) and then doing your light runs on the "rest" days. Alternatively, you can do it the way you described. For newer people I would probably recommend the option I just mentioned just because they actually need the rest days to be really light so they can recover. However, since you likely have some strong base level of conditioning, I think it's better to do it your way, since then you actually can get a full good workout with your hard runs, while putting most of your energy into the upper body work the other days and then finishing it off with a light run. Make sense? Depending on how the easy run is you may be able to do it before your bodyweight training and still get good quality work on the bodyweight work in after. However, if that's not the case, it's generally just best to eat after everything is over. You will get a better fat burn by waiting to eat PWO after the run, but it will actually be kinda negated by eating after the run overall since you're probably gonna take in a bunch of calories. Typically, if someone is trying to burn fat they'll want to fast after working out, or just have a small amount of carbs and a bunch of protein. But overall, probably won't make a huge difference. | ||
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xxbrophyxx
United States1 Post
Actually I thought of a few questions. they're not really specific to bodyweight training, hope that's okay. So I'm still running every day because I like running. I like doing three intense running workouts a week, while doing easy recovery runs on the other four days. For bodyweight training, I'm doing 2 push and 2 pull exercises three times a week, as well as some supplemental wrist strengthening exercises and standard warmup/prehabilitation/stretching. It seems pretty clear to me that I should schedule something like running MON WED SAT and bodyweight training TUES THURS SUN, while doing my easy running on bodyweight days immediately after the bodyweight training. Is this correct? It is also an option for me to do one in the AM and one in the PM. I prefer to do them together but if there's reason to believe splitting them would be better, I'd do it. Also, when I do bodyweight training immediately followed by an easy run, when is the best time to drink my milk? =] I have no problem drinking my full serving of milk and then doing easy running. But I am still lowering my body fat percentage so if I can get a better fat burn by saving that sugar and protein until after the run, I might prefer that. Oh and what's a recommended amount of milk to drink post workout? As far as splitting your work out, it just depends on your personal schedule, if you have time to do both weight training and running back to back you will get more results from this however compared to splitting them the advantage you gain won't necessarily be a whole lot. As far as the milk question, instead of drinking milk i'd take a vitamin D supplement (i know this sounds something like pop a pill to fix a problem and I HATE that), there are a few studies showing that milk isn't so good for you as nutritionists once thought. Another good source of protein is greek yogurt, it doesn't taste good on its own but you can get it flavored or put cut up fruit in it to improve the taste. If you are going to drink a milk serving though, best do it with breakfast. Fuel up, so to speak, then burn it off later. On eating post work out, it is highly recommended that you do eat post work out. Regardless of when you work out you should eat something after wards to help your body restore what you spent working out, the key here is to restore the right stuff and avoid all of the sugar/carbs. The two things nutritionists recommend to refuel are servings of papaya and pineapple. I eat this along with drinking cold iced water after a work out, I find that i'm not as sore the next day. You have the schedule thing right about the running/body weight training, that schedule works fine. I know long distance runners like to run in sets of three. Say your goal is to run 12 miles (just an example 3 a day is fine) what my friends who long distance run do is run 4 days one day, 8 the next, then 12 on the final day. Working in a cycle of four days, they take the fourth day off, or do some light cardio either biking, walking, or jogging.The system you have is just fine. You are on the right track with alternating intense/light days to help get started. On a side note about weight training in general, the quickly adapted standard is to work out muscle groups in pairs as opposed to every muscle every day. I do body weight training and I like to do chest/back on day one, biceps/triceps on day two, and then shoulders/legs on the last day; the fourth day I do yoga. This system of training muscles in pairs was made popular by P90x but they stretch the cycle out over a week as opposed to four days. I find the three days of weight training followed by a day of yoga or doing nothing even, works well with the human body. Sometimes I mix around what muscle groups I do on which day or what muscles I work together to see if something works better or worse. And of course I run/bike after the weight training. As far as fat burning goes, taking omega three (fish oil pills normally) right before bed time will help you burn more fat while you sleep and your body to rebuild, especially if you exercised that day. Omega 3 and Vitamin D also help to naturally fight Depression/anxiety something I struggled with severely for four years. I find taking these natural supplements and working out every day (something recommended to me by a psychiatrist) on a schedule worked far better for me than any psychotropic medication I ever took. In general though, the omega three stuff works great for extra fat burn and its also offered in the form of seeds if you want to add them to a protein shake or tea. I hope this was helpful. Brophy | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On a side note about weight training in general, the quickly adapted standard is to work out muscle groups in pairs as opposed to every muscle every day. I do body weight training and I like to do chest/back on day one, biceps/triceps on day two, and then shoulders/legs on the last day; the fourth day I do yoga. This system of training muscles in pairs was made popular by P90x but they stretch the cycle out over a week as opposed to four days. No... splits are crappy compared to full body for novice/intermediate strength/hypertrophy. Milk, especially full fat, is still fine if you're not allergic. Theoretically, should not need to supplement D if getting outside a bunch (although people on this forum generally don't get out much so yeah). Rest I guess I could generally agree with, although, not always what I would recommend. Eh. | ||
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emjaytron
Australia544 Posts
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Ero-Sennin
United States756 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On February 19 2012 02:19 Ero-Sennin wrote: Just a heads up if you're trying to build muscle... that's not going to happen within the first 6-8 weeks of training because in that window, it's mostly just neuromuscular changes. The numbers I have seen are typically 3-4 weeks. I'm still skeptical about this namely because when you actually work out and damage a muscle, it repairs itself and therefore WILL hypertrophy (whether it's by adding sacroplasmic or electrolyte/metabolic constituents to the muscles). I believe the actual "no hypertrophy" is there is actually not much increase in myofibrillar constituents -- e.g. contractile proteins -- for a while, but muscles DO actually get bigger and get stronger on programs like Starting Strength in just a couple workouts. So it's somewhat misleading. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
So I'm wanting to start to focus on bodyweight training; I have a way to do dips/pullups and I'll be getting some rings as well (any recommendations in particular?) and I have a floor so I think I'll have everything I need... but what's bothering me is program/exercise selection. It seems, much unlike barbell training, everywhere I go to try and find a routine to start with, I end up staring at the same thing: "Depends on your goals". There's pieces of information here and there, I found most exercise progressions, and I know the idea of mixing pushing/pulling, core work, handstand work, static/dynamic exercises but there's really nothing that I've seen that brings it all together and lays it out in a way similar to, say SS for barbells. I mean regardless of your goals in weight training, whether it be beach body, olympic lifts/power, bodybuilding, raw strength, sport performance, etc. you can point a beginner to a routine like SS/SL which lays out what exercises to do, when and how to progress, and have them on their way. Why can't I find something like this for bodyweight training? How do I figure out what exercises to include for balanced training, when to progress (e.g. for how long do I have to be able to hold a particular hold before moving onto the more difficult variation etc), and how to structure my sets/reps/time holds/rest periods/workout days? The closest thing I've found is the 'routine construction' subsection from eatmoveimprove as linked in the OP, and even there it's quite general with no particular details as to what actually constitutes "5-10 minutes of wall handstand work" or what level of proficiency is required to move onto the next progression exercise | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
I mean regardless of your goals in weight training, whether it be beach body, olympic lifts/power, bodybuilding, raw strength, sport performance, etc. you can point a beginner to a routine like SS/SL which lays out what exercises to do, when and how to progress, and have them on their way. Why can't I find something like this for bodyweight training? At beginner level... let say working on handstand, L-sit, dips, pullups, rows, and some pushup variation, pistols/single leg squat there's not much stuff you can do OTHER than that which would be more optimal than what you're doing. However, once you work your way into an advanced beginner/intermediate level of strength you can be doing tons of things: planches, back lever, front lever, dips, pullups, rows, pushups, handstand pushups, muscle ups, etc. Once you get more advanced that that there's TONS of more stuff you can do. The "Skill trees" branch off so much that training that it really actually depends on your goals beyond beginner level of ability. How do I figure out what exercises to include for balanced training, when to progress (e.g. for how long do I have to be able to hold a particular hold before moving onto the more difficult variation etc), and how to structure my sets/reps/time holds/rest periods/workout days? The closest thing I've found is the 'routine construction' subsection from eatmoveimprove as linked in the OP, and even there it's quite general with no particular details as to what actually constitutes "5-10 minutes of wall handstand work" or what level of proficiency is required to move onto the next progression exercise The EMI link is probably the best programming article on the internet for bodyweight work, so you're not going to get much more detail than that aside from people answering your questions. I also laid out guidelines for all of your questions within the Overcoming Gravity book. Regardless, here's some answers since telling you to buy the book isn't constructive. 1. Balanced training -- generally structure so you have as many push as pull exercises. 2. Holds depend on your current ability... I would say aim for about 60-70% of your max hold and 3-5 sets aiming toward about a minute of holds. Though this is general; I constructed a prilepin table for isometrics in the book. 3. sets/rest/etc. depends on your goals (strength/hypertrophy/what what level of progression you're on, etc.) 4. 5-10 mins of handstand work varies depending on how much time you have to work the skills... if shorter time, then you do 5-10 minutes total and work on increasing time inverted while making sure you're not fatigued such that you have bad practice. Or, if you're more advanced you can spend 5-10 minutes total inverted. Many options inbetween those two. 5. The proficiency to move onto the next progression is variable... the guidelines I laid out in the book is being able to get a 5-6s hold, 3 reps of the next exercise, or 3s eccentric. But it depends on what exercise progression you are at and if you need some intermediate steps between them | ||
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4thHatchery
Finland125 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4727 Posts
Now I have managed to get ~20cm towards the wall. And I am wondering since I am a very big guy, if it is ok if my hands are farther away. Because, quite frankly, my gut just seems to be in the way when I try to get closer to the wall. Thanks in advance (also to anyone else who could help me out). | ||
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4thHatchery
Finland125 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4727 Posts
Anyway, back to topic. I can probably hold a Wall-Handstand for 45sec or so with one feet off the wall. Could be a bit more or a bit less, but above 30seconds and not yet a minute. - static hold: 60 sec plank 60 sec reverse plank 60 sec arch hold 60 sec hollow hold (50sec) 60 sec support hold 60 sec dead hang (40sec) 60 sec L-sit tuck (just started with these, still working on pushing myself off the ground for more than 15seconds) The bold ones I can hold for at least a minute. Didn't do inverted hangs yet, and added durations for the other ones. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On February 28 2012 01:29 Malinor wrote: @eshlow: I have a question regarding Wall-Handstands. I have only trained them since 2 weeks or so. I read from Coach Summer on gymnasticbodiesthat you should get your hands as close as 10-15cm to the wall (and then just hold yourself up with as few toes as possibe) and slowly work your way towards 0-5cm. This is to get the right body alignment for real handstands later on. Now I have managed to get ~20cm towards the wall. And I am wondering since I am a very big guy, if it is ok if my hands are farther away. Because, quite frankly, my gut just seems to be in the way when I try to get closer to the wall. Thanks in advance (also to anyone else who could help me out). Basically, you want to be totally balanced over your hands. Therefore, your hands should be directly under the middle of your body -- so if that's 20cm from the wall then that's fine. I typically tell people to bring them in as close as possible with a straight body -- usually that's with the hands maybe 4-6" from the wall (or 10-15cm or so). But it can be more or less depending on how thin/thick you are. Let me know if you got more questions! | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On February 29 2012 02:20 a176 wrote: if anybody could help, i have a question maybe for this thread? whenever i do pull/chin ups, my body swings around back and fourth and this is very frustrating. it might have something to do with the speed i am doing them (i am doing 1minute p90 style blasts)? is there some form to my body/legs i should be doing to maintain a straight up/down motion? i am using a door style chin up bar. Are you using your legs for momentum to get up? That's the only way I can see you would start swinging because if you are just pulling with your shoulders/arms you should not swing at all | ||
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