This topic is going to be mostly dedicated to bodyweight strength training.
When most people think of bodyweight training they think along the lines of high repetitions movements. This is obviously what you need for some professions. For example, the military requires that you be able to do certain amounts of situps, pushups, chinups, etc. in a set amount of time (usually 2 minutes). This requires great endurance -- you must be able to do 50+ repetitions if not more of many of these movements.
However, bodyweight strength training focuses particularly on modifying exercises to make them harder to increase strength. By aiming to increase strength, this also provides a useful stimulus for increasing muscle mass. Additionally, the added strength will help you be able to perform a lot of the awesome gymnastics-type strength skills.
I wrote an article on how to construct a bodyweight strength routine here that can get you started:
Recently, I completed my first book on this topic which delves into constructing a routine, staying injury free and rehabbing from injuries, and the various exercise progressions to work towards a lot of the different strength moves. It is available on Amazon:
On February 17 2012 05:37 Liquid`NonY wrote: I'm having a lot of fun and seeing good progress with bodyweight training! Overcoming Gravity is such a wealth of information =] I started with such weak wrists and shoulders. It feels so satisfying to finally strengthen them and start working toward full body strength and flexibility. Although I'm prioritizing hypertrophy atm, as soon as I get my vanity out of the way I'll get strength going full steam. Haven't done anything impressive yet but I'll get there one workout at a time! Anyway I don't have any questions, just wanted to drop in and say that I'm quite enjoying this approach.
DrillsAndSkills lists many good exercises. Roger's articles are also a gold mine for some of the particular techniques and nuances that need to be developed as well.
Jim's Beast Skills site has many skills that people want to strive for as well.
Gymnastics FIG code of points -- tells you the skill ratings for all of the technical skills on all apparatus in mens gymnastics.
Equipments
As always we strongly recommend that you obtain a pullup bar and a set of rings. For most people, a doorway pullup bar works, and Rogue Fitness makes good wood rings if you want a pair of those.
The rings may be hung off of the pullup bar, so you do not need to find somewhere outside to hang them unless you so desire.
Feel free to ask me questions about any of these topics. I'll try to help any of you that are interested in this type of training as much as I can. If you are in the military or want to complete certain endurance-related bodyweight feats I can help out with that as well.
is there still any point in doing pullups negatives to increase strength when you can do 3x6 and is somewhat stalling / stopped progressing fast enough ( like .5 -1 extra rep per workout so 6-6-6 to 6-7-6). how long should the going down part last?
since i'm still plagued by headaches sometimes when doing squats, I was thinking about switching to bodyweight strength training. now, my question is this: is bodyweight strength training feasable for someone of my stature (177cm tall, 85kg heavy)? I imagine it is way easier for people who are short and light. is that a misconception or should I try to lose some weight first?
It is easier for lighter people but if you really want to do bodyweight strength training then in my opinion switch now. Just fix your eating habbits if they are unhealthy. I am switching next month when I am done with current SS program and for comparison I weigh 90kg+ and I am 184cm tall.
is there still any point in doing pullups negatives to increase strength when you can do 3x6 and is somewhat stalling / stopped progressing fast enough ( like .5 -1 extra rep per workout so 6-6-6 to 6-7-6). how long should the going down part last?
Im not eschlow but I have done an asston of pull training, I very much doubt it would be worth it, negatives and eccentric movements are almost always done only when you cannot complete the real movement. It would be like benching the bar and hoping to boost your 1repmax at this point (6+ reps concentric).
what is your max set/goals?
On November 24 2011 20:52 Zafrumi wrote: since i'm still plagued by headaches sometimes when doing squats, I was thinking about switching to bodyweight strength training. now, my question is this: is bodyweight strength training feasable for someone of my stature (177cm tall, 85kg heavy)? I imagine it is way easier for people who are short and light. is that a misconception or should I try to lose some weight first?
Well obviously its going to be harder: more bodyweight is more weight. Thats not really a reason to not start though, as opposed to weightlifting where a beginner would use smaller weights, in bodyweight training you start off with easier movements and progress from there. As you mention squats, those are going to be harder too, the more non-muscle weight you have to lift....
No need to delay, just try to lose some weight AND start whatever good strength regime you prefer. Its most important that you find the one you enjoy the most so its easy to stick with.
You can do negatives/eccentrics, but if you can do a reasonable amount of concentrics you're better off doing those for repetitions and working your way up (or different progressions) depending on your goals.
Bodyweight can be performed by anyone. As sob3k said... much easier beginning for lighter weight people, but I know a bunch of 200+ lbs guys who have gotten pretty good at bodyweight stuff with enough dedicated work.
How do you suggest to begin with bodyweight strength training? I've read some from Building the gymnastics body and their exersices seems so advanced for a beginner :o
On November 27 2011 11:49 Necosarius wrote: How do you suggest to begin with bodyweight strength training? I've read some from Building the gymnastics body and their exersices seems so advanced for a beginner :o
Depends on your strength.
If you have rings I'd start working some basic support work.
If your dips/pullups are good then start trying to work muscle ups. if not, work dips and pullups.
If you can hit the lower levels of the back lever/front lever/planche progressions then do that... otherwise, work on rowing movements, and some harder pushup variations.
On November 27 2011 16:00 jjhchsc2 wrote: @ sobek i am at 3x6 reps right now and i just want to start weighting them at 3x8-10. seems really slow on the progression.
What is your max set? If you can hit 10-12 then feel free to start adding a bit of weight and reducing the reps if you are getting bored/annoyed. I always found it more fun to do 3-6 rep workouts at a higher difficulty, and it should increase your strength nicely as long as your goal isn't 50 reps or something very endurance based.
Just a warning for later, be careful how you add weight, when you are just running a few pound its fine to rig up whatever backpack or bag or whatever, but when you get up to like 20lbs get a dipping belt and/or be very careful because you don't want that weight falling and breaking your feet.....bags and stuff split at surprisingly low weights under the stress of coming down from a pull.
What are the advantages of bodyweight training? Is it more effective if you are going for an athletic build where activities such as running, gymnastics, dance (I'm thinking a heavily physical dance like bboying), or sports are a commonplace? Or is it simply an alternative to hitting the gym.
Before I started working out at all I was going to do bodyweight training just because it seemed more natural and convenient but after I learned about StartingStrength I decided to do that instead, so these are the two programs I'm comparing.
Just grab a DB and hold it between your feet if you don't have dip belt. That works all the way up to 30-40kg/70-80 lbs for most people. Holding heavier DBs between your feet than that can be tough though.
@ Najda
Alternative to hitting the gym. Properly programmed you can make slightly better strength increases (but it's hard to program effectively), but less mass increases than barbells from what I've seen.
And it's very useful for sports where you manipulate your body like you listed.
On November 27 2011 16:00 jjhchsc2 wrote: @ sobek i am at 3x6 reps right now and i just want to start weighting them at 3x8-10. seems really slow on the progression.
What is your max set? If you can hit 10-12 then feel free to start adding a bit of weight and reducing the reps if you are getting bored/annoyed. I always found it more fun to do 3-6 rep workouts at a higher difficulty, and it should increase your strength nicely as long as your goal isn't 50 reps or something very endurance based.
Just a warning for later, be careful how you add weight, when you are just running a few pound its fine to rig up whatever backpack or bag or whatever, but when you get up to like 20lbs get a dipping belt and/or be very careful because you don't want that weight falling and breaking your feet.....bags and stuff split at surprisingly low weights under the stress of coming down from a pull.
i will check today or whenever i am not currently injured.
On November 28 2011 10:14 Najda wrote: What are the advantages of bodyweight training? Is it more effective if you are going for an athletic build where activities such as running, gymnastics, dance (I'm thinking a heavily physical dance like bboying), or sports are a commonplace? Or is it simply an alternative to hitting the gym.
Before I started working out at all I was going to do bodyweight training just because it seemed more natural and convenient but after I learned about StartingStrength I decided to do that instead, so these are the two programs I'm comparing.
The advantage with bodyweight training is that you are focusing on multiple muscle groups performing a practical movement together. You don't have to worry about getting fat biceps but being unable to do anything with them because they are disproportionately strong to the other muscles you need to do a real world task.You will be full body strong. Bodyweight training is great if you are interested in really developing functional strength, if you want to be able to just get around any obstacle and be useful then bodyweight training is a good way to go. Yes, If you are interested in activities like climbing/dance/gymnastics/parkour/martial arts then bodyweight training is great because you can train doing the movements you want to perform out in the real world.
Of course its silly to just think of doing weights OR bodyweight exercises, they're both great and you should be mixing them for good results no matter what kind of fitness you are into. Its depressing to see guys who can bench 300lbs and cant do a single pullup, but likewise you will have much greater strength gains in many skills if you isolate and do weight training. How you mix bodyweight and weighted depends on your goals.
You wanna get big and impress people with your deadlift more: you're going to do more lifts and weights.
You wanna be able to move anywhere in your environment and crank out handstand presses: you're going to do more bodyweight training.
As you know I've been doing SS and I just want to keep as much strength as possible without going to the gym for about 2 months. How do you suggest I do? I've mostly been looking into Building the gymnastics body but if you know some easier/better stuff then I would like to hear it ^^ Should I do pull/press or static exercises? Or maybe both? I've been thinking of doing pullups, dips, push up variations and work on planche. Too much? How to train legs? ;_;
Just grab a DB and hold it between your feet if you don't have dip belt. That works all the way up to 30-40kg/70-80 lbs for most people. Holding heavier DBs between your feet than that can be tough though.
@ Najda
Alternative to hitting the gym. Properly programmed you can make slightly better strength increases (but it's hard to program effectively), but less mass increases than barbells from what I've seen.
And it's very useful for sports where you manipulate your body like you listed.
Just a note at holding the dumbbells, You want to hold it so that the weight is vertical, and you're basically holding on to the top weight part, with your ankles (or whatever part of the leg) where the handle is. I've seen people try to place it horizontally, and it just doesn't work out for them. Much harder to balance, and you need a friend to get it on their for you.
On December 04 2011 05:41 Necosarius wrote: As you know I've been doing SS and I just want to keep as much strength as possible without going to the gym for about 2 months. How do you suggest I do? I've mostly been looking into Building the gymnastics body but if you know some easier/better stuff then I would like to hear it ^^ Should I do pull/press or static exercises? Or maybe both? I've been thinking of doing pullups, dips, push up variations and work on planche. Too much? How to train legs? ;_;
And I don't have rings
the big bodyweight exercises like pullups/dips/pushups are always good, and trying a progression for a harder skill like planche/muscleups/onearmpushups will be great for max strength as well as being interesting. I would advise going over to beastskills and looking for a skill you think would be cool and just working the progressions he has posted.
For legs you have running (that's bodyweight bro!), and you can also do some plyometric (jumping) exercises for max power and increased vertical. You can also toss in a some fast pistol squats (one leg) to improve power and balance.
If you can find a nice solid wall in the right height range (7-10ft), I would heartily recommend doing some sets of wallruns and learning that skill. Its a very useful movement and will absolutely destroy your legs in a few reps. You can also tack on a mantle to the finish which will work your arms/abs ridiculously as well. Full wallrun/mantles are one of the best fullbody workouts I have ever done.
Plus working towards this kind of mantling power is a great and ridiculously tough objective
On November 27 2011 16:00 jjhchsc2 wrote: @ sobek i am at 3x6 reps right now and i just want to start weighting them at 3x8-10. seems really slow on the progression.
What is your max set? If you can hit 10-12 then feel free to start adding a bit of weight and reducing the reps if you are getting bored/annoyed. I always found it more fun to do 3-6 rep workouts at a higher difficulty, and it should increase your strength nicely as long as your goal isn't 50 reps or something very endurance based.
Just a warning for later, be careful how you add weight, when you are just running a few pound its fine to rig up whatever backpack or bag or whatever, but when you get up to like 20lbs get a dipping belt and/or be very careful because you don't want that weight falling and breaking your feet.....bags and stuff split at surprisingly low weights under the stress of coming down from a pull.
max set is 7 with more than shoulder width apart and concentric style(feet touching the floor every rep) is it ok to do weighted concentrics and then move onto full pullups? i have been doing shoulder width apart for like a month and found out that is bad form for lat development...
On December 12 2011 11:52 eshlow wrote: 5-8 reps is good for hypertrophy. As long as you're upping the weight or difficulty it doesn't matter what progressions you're using really
On December 19 2011 05:05 Jitsu wrote: I just bought the "You Are Your Own Gym: The Bible of Bodyweight Exercises." I read it in one evening and started the profession of workouts. So good.
Anyone else use his systems/workouts/ect? Some real experience with it? Want others peoples impressions of it.
Haven't read it. Anything interesting in terms of strength, or no?
Going to follow practical programming novice program for a bit now so I can start doing chin-ups and pull-ups. @low 80kg bw I'll switch to complete bw strength training for 5-6months(In september I'd like to try some oly lifting but that's future right now.) Staying full paleo too right now and really doing quite well in staying ~1400-1600kcal consumption.
Sticky in this subforum by eshlow has many links for Paleo. As for my own experience, I used to eat dumblings, pasta and rice with fish or chicken all the time (sometimes even bread) and consumed 0grams of veggies because I really hated them. Also fruits didn't taste as good as bread so I wasn't even close to paleo.
When I first read about it in eshlow threads I thought that I'll give it a try because I was overweight and had high blood sugar levels ( eventho I didn't eat cakes and other sweets). I started by taking small steps: ate lot's of pig, beef and chicken meat and some vegetables/fruits that I was able to swallow and added salad sauces and/or cream + flavorings. After a while I actually started to like vegetables and ~3months after staying like this I tried dumplings again ( because I was actually out of money and it was cheap as hell ) but taste wasn't great at all so it seems that I probably had somekind of addiction. I seriously prefer vegetables + fish > beef/pork/chicken over everything else now.
By going full paleo I meant that I am going to cut cream and milk out too. Didn't handle milk well anyway so it's not a huge loss :d. I have to warn you tho that some people can't handle paleo at all so if you feel like crap all the time then try to go semi-paleo ( rice and milk products ) which is much easier to follow for average person.
Eshlow, I'm about to order your book from Amazon. I'm quite interested in taking up some gymnastics training and combining it with an Olympic lifting routine!
Is there anything I need in order to complete the progressions? Rings, pull up bar, anything? I would like to know now so I can order everything together.
On January 05 2012 15:12 Jitsu wrote: @Crawler, how do you like Paleo? Any links you can hook me up with in regards to going full Paleo? Really want to experiment with it.
@Eshlow, what are you're personal feelings on bodyweight training, as well as the book you said you were ordering?
Eh? I'm not ordering a book, but I did write this book:
On January 05 2012 21:46 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: Eshlow, I'm about to order your book from Amazon. I'm quite interested in taking up some gymnastics training and combining it with an Olympic lifting routine!
Is there anything I need in order to complete the progressions? Rings, pull up bar, anything? I would like to know now so I can order everything together.
Pullup bar and rings would be useful like said above. You can even go outside to playground and use like a tree branch or playground bars for the stuff.
Can do dips from countertops, or chairs pushed together, or ledge, or other stuff.
So if you don't have equipment it's something easy that can get you started.
enjoying the book so far, feel like i'm learning a lot. i really like how you analyze everything so deeply and are very technical about the way to go about doing certain things. i haven't had too much time to read it (only like page 80 or so), but i've looked at the exercises in the back. just been trying out certain exercises a few times to see what it's like and i already realize i need to work on my flexibility some haha. i have a few questions, but i can't really remember all of them right now. the only one i can really remember off the top of my head is what are the differences between planking with your arms out like you're going to do a pushup and putting your elbows on the ground? (p.s. i know you're not a big fan of planks lol)
On January 09 2012 08:52 Nitrogen wrote: enjoying the book so far, feel like i'm learning a lot. i really like how you analyze everything so deeply and are very technical about the way to go about doing certain things. i haven't had too much time to read it (only like page 80 or so), but i've looked at the exercises in the back. just been trying out certain exercises a few times to see what it's like and i already realize i need to work on my flexibility some haha. i have a few questions, but i can't really remember all of them right now. the only one i can really remember off the top of my head is what are the differences between planking with your arms out like you're going to do a pushup and putting your elbows on the ground? (p.s. i know you're not a big fan of planks lol)
I don't have anything against planks actually; I just think some exercises are better.
No real significant different between those variations. I feel like most people can hit a better body position on the elbows rather than the pushup position though because the forearms on the ground give a more stable base. But yeah, you eventually want to be able to work them both positions solid, especially since the pushup position is used a lot in other movements.
I';m not sure which version I put in the book... may have been the pushup position. But yeah,
Feel free to ask if you got more Q's, and don't forget to submit a review!
On January 09 2012 09:27 eshlow wrote: I don't have anything against planks actually; I just think some exercises are better.
No real significant different between those variations. I feel like most people can hit a better body position on the elbows rather than the pushup position though because the forearms on the ground give a more stable base. But yeah, you eventually want to be able to work them both positions solid, especially since the pushup position is used a lot in other movements.!
Interesting. To my mind, there's a big difference between elbow planks and pushup ones - I only practise the latter. I suppose planks are viewed popularly as a "core" exercise, for which the elbow version is perhaps more taxing, but would agree there are much better replacement exercises for that: L-sits, hanging L, body levers etc.
Instead, I see planks (along with PB/ring supports) as a good starting step for training correct scapular protraction and depression, preparing people better for planche leans, tuck planche etc. The usual recommendation is to do them for 60s with feet elevated (working up if need be) and trying to be as "hollow" as possible.
Scapula pushups really help too, which are illustrated at the start of the following video (also shows decent "hollow" at the top):
Attempting an elbow plank just now, I find that I can't seem to protract my scapulae fully. It's quite interesting to try out an analogous "scapula pushup" variation, but it feels like I'm doing mostly the same thing with partial ROM.
Your thoughts, Steve? Really looking forward to reading the book - it'll be in my hands in a week!
Another question, every morning 4 days a week i'm required to work out (military) but we don't really do any strength exercises, just cardio and muscular endurance exercises. do you think it would still be ok to work out 3-4 times a week after that? and how do you think i should plan out my exercise sessions around this?
On January 10 2012 15:21 Nitrogen wrote: Another question, every morning 4 days a week i'm required to work out (military) but we don't really do any strength exercises, just cardio and muscular endurance exercises. do you think it would still be ok to work out 3-4 times a week after that? and how do you think i should plan out my exercise sessions around this?
I'd start with 1-2x a week of strength work after the PT sessions.
If you feel OK after doing the 4 Pt sessions and the 1-2 strength work after 3+ months then add another day and re-eval. Typically I recommend a year before you start adding extra sessions but PT/endurance stuff is pretty light.
Rings and eshlow's book both shipped today! Looking forward to getting them in .
I'll probably start doing some individual work until then. I need to get my strength back up... it's been about three weeks since I hit the gym and I think I've lost about 6-8 pounds .
Also eshlow, to complete all types of exercises, about how much taller than you does the thing you're attaching your rings to need to be? It's pretty difficult to find a high pull up bar in Japan.
On January 10 2012 23:00 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: Rings and eshlow's book both shipped today! Looking forward to getting them in .
I'll probably start doing some individual work until then. I need to get my strength back up... it's been about three weeks since I hit the gym and I think I've lost about 6-8 pounds .
Also eshlow, to complete all types of exercises, about how much taller than you does the thing you're attaching your rings to need to be? It's pretty difficult to find a high pull up bar in Japan.
If you're doing stuff underneath you can probably do them straight up on a pullup bar instead of rings.
Otherwise, straps dont need to be that long to do stuff over the rings as long as you dont hit your head on the bar.
You can always try to find a tree outside to use if you need to.
i'm having a lot of trouble starting the L sit, i can't get my legs up off the ground really haha. i have a feeling it's a combination of hip flexor mobility/core strength. would you say this is an accurate diagnosis? and do you have any recommendations for this?
On January 13 2012 10:03 Nitrogen wrote: i'm having a lot of trouble starting the L sit, i can't get my legs up off the ground really haha. i have a feeling it's a combination of hip flexor mobility/core strength. would you say this is an accurate diagnosis? and do you have any recommendations for this?
Stretch out those hammies will help significantly
Start with tuck or one leg out one leg tuck and work your way up in time then progress to full
i actually meant i can't even do the basic l sit progression, i can't even do the level 1 tuck. i mean i can do the "chair" position you described in your book, but just the leg part is out of my skill/strength level atm.
On January 13 2012 19:55 Nitrogen wrote: i actually meant i can't even do the basic l sit progression, i can't even do the level 1 tuck. i mean i can do the "chair" position you described in your book, but just the leg part is out of my skill/strength level atm.
Ah, I see.
Use some of the plank/ab wheel progressions then if you can as well as possibly some V-ups ifyou can do these as well
alright sweet, already had ab wheel progression as part of my workout, and usually do v-ups similar to those (i don't go up all the way and touch my feet) during pt. my hip flexors are just weak as fuck and inflexible. i'm also thinking that one stretch you listed in your book where you have your legs out in front of you, hands by your side, then try to touch your knees to your face will help as well.
On January 14 2012 17:38 Levistus wrote: can anyone suggest me an alternative for pull ups/chin ups? cause i don't have a bar.
Use a tree outside. Stairwell inside grab above the next level
Have a table/chairs you can hang under it and do inverted rows or one arm inverted rows. Make sure it's stable though so it doesnt break and fall on you...
I dont know if I should be amazed or disturbed. either way, that is one strong kid!
lol that kid, had missed the video. I don't think you can force a kid to learn to do that? He prolly saw his parents and wanted to learn (I hope). If they are feeding him roids that would be bad though. Funny that kids playing football or being forced to jog at school at age 5 isn't considered abuse.
does doms mean strength gain and building muscle mass, or can it happen just from endurance exercise? i get sore a lot after pt and am wondering if i'm getting anything out of it in terms of strength.
i've worked my way up to the knee ab wheel, but i can feel it in my back so much. i can do a 1 arm/1 leg plank for like 40 seconds though. do you think i just have shitty form or is there another good way to build up to the knee ab wheel?
Soreness is a common topic because everyone who has and ever will exercise has experienced this phenomena. Delayed onset muscle soreness generally occurs approximately 24 hours after exercise and is the most intense about 48-72 hours. It can also last up for a week or a bit more if you put a lot more strain on your body than it was previously used to.
Generally, you only get it when you (1) try new exercises, (2) do increased volume or frequency, or (3) excessive amounts of eccentric exercises.
However, when examining soreness and its relation to progress, it is simply not necessary. The body is able to progress both in strength and hypertrophy or any other aspect without having to go through the pain (or pleasure if you like it) of soreness. As long as you are increasing your strength or gaining muscle mass or meeting any of your goals do not worry about soreness. If, however, you are not progressing, then maybe it is time to modify your routine, take a break from working out or something along those lines. Soreness need not be involved with any of these events as it is not a good indicator a good workout.
As far as training with soreness, my "mantra" on the subject is:
1. If you're too sore to move you should at least exercise lightly to get blood flowing = faster healing. You should also be hydrating, self massaging, foam rolling, or whatever else you can do to alleviate it anyway.
2. If you're not too sore to workout.. go for it. But DO NOT overdo it.
3. Otherwise, don't worry about soreness. If you're training ENOUGH it should start to go away as you become more conditioned.
4. If you ALWAYS get sore then you're not doing enough (such as 1-2x a week bodypart splits). In these cases, it's probably hindering your workouts. Those who increase frequency to say 3x a week full body have the tendency to see their body adapt to the stressors and soreness starts to go away.
All in all, soreness is not something to worry about. Generally, it will be more of a hindrance to training than anything so if you plan to do a workout that is higher in volume than you usually do or has a lot of eccentric movements, plan on being sore. But don't make it a priority. Stay in line with your goals and aiming for progress. Progress can and always will be made without soreness.
Hey eshlow. In your book on the section for prehabilitation of the elbow, you mention a technique where you grip the muscles and flex the arm. In the case of the upper arm, should I basically press directly on the bicep and tricep muscles? Also, how close to the elbow should I be gripping? I'm guessing it's not a good idea to directly press on the tendon, but I'm not sure where the tendon ends and the muscle begins.
On January 22 2012 14:27 Slithe wrote: Hey eshlow. In your book on the section for prehabilitation of the elbow, you mention a technique where you grip the muscles and flex the arm. In the case of the upper arm, should I basically press directly on the bicep and tricep muscles? Also, how close to the elbow should I be gripping? I'm guessing it's not a good idea to directly press on the tendon, but I'm not sure where the tendon ends and the muscle begins.
Depends where you need the soft tissue work.
I usually just grab the muscle belly and then flex/extend the arm, or pronate and supinate and let the muscle run underneath my hand to break up knots/adhesions/etc.
If your tendon is a bit sore/aggravate maybe it could use a bit of work. You'll have to play around with it a bit to find out what works best for you.
On January 22 2012 15:51 Slithe wrote: I think it's great. I'm coming back from a long hiatus, and the book's very helpful in constructing a workout routine.
Have you considered having supplemental online video material? I think that would be pretty cool for stuff like demonstrating exercises.
Yeah, I have plans to get up a novice guide of some sort in the future for the book. Getting up some videos may be done too. We'll see when it happens though; I'm pretty busy with school at the moment.
Let me know if you got further Q's. Also, don't forget to submit a review once you're done!
do you have any recommendations for endurance exercises after strength training? i'm just not entirely sure how to structure them. for example, would the optimal way to improve in pushups be just do 3 sets until failure, after strength training?
also, do you think pistol progressions + sprinting is sufficient for lower body work? i'd mostly be doing pistols though, probably sprinting only like 1x maybe 2x a week.
and do you have any recommendations for lower back exercises? i'm looking to get a stronger lower back for rucking.
edit: just thought of another question, do you think the "perfect pushup" would help improve the total # of normal pushups i could do?
On January 24 2012 10:21 Nitrogen wrote: do you have any recommendations for endurance exercises after strength training? i'm just not entirely sure how to structure them. for example, would the optimal way to improve in pushups be just do 3 sets until failure, after strength training?
also, do you think pistol progressions + sprinting is sufficient for lower body work? i'd mostly be doing pistols though, probably sprinting only like 1x maybe 2x a week.
and do you have any recommendations for lower back exercises? i'm looking to get a stronger lower back for rucking.
edit: just thought of another question, do you think the "perfect pushup" would help improve the total # of normal pushups i could do?
Yeah, if you want to do conditioning then do it after the strength training. To failure is fine for endurance based stuff.
There's some stuff on endurance/conditioning here:
Yeah, pistols and sprinting is fine. You can add in some bodyweight hamstring curls too if you want.
Low back -- back extensions, reverse hyperextensions are both good bodyweight though you need something to support you
You get better at what you do more.... so no perfect pushup would not help your regular pushups. The caveat is that more difficult stuff (such as rings pushups) would also help regular pushups although not as much as doing regular pushups.
Just ordered myself some gymnastic rings, can't wait till the arrive. I've been practising L sit/ hand stand / levers. My housemate does 'tricking' (pretty much parkour from what I can tell) so it's been fun talking with him about it.
On January 26 2012 13:50 AndyJay wrote: Just ordered myself some gymnastic rings, can't wait till the arrive. I've been practising L sit/ hand stand / levers. My housemate does 'tricking' (pretty much parkour from what I can tell) so it's been fun talking with him about it.
Whenever I've worked out, I usually try to hit sets of 10 and taking a 1 minute break between sets. Well now I'm reading on the Internet in many places that that is for building muscle and toning. To build strength, apparently one needs to do somewhere in the range of 4-8 reps and take 3-5 min. rests between sets.
I have a couple of questions: 1) For the first part, doesn't building muscle imply building strength? Why does it seem to imply they're mutually exclusive? 2) For the second part, doesn't building strength tend to correlate with building muscle?
On January 30 2012 03:58 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Whenever I've worked out, I usually try to hit sets of 10 and taking a 1 minute break between sets. Well now I'm reading on the Internet in many places that that is for building muscle and toning. To build strength, apparently one needs to do somewhere in the range of 4-8 reps and take 3-5 min. rests between sets.
I have a couple of questions: 1) For the first part, doesn't building muscle imply building strength? Why does it seem to imply they're mutually exclusive? 2) For the second part, doesn't building strength tend to correlate with building muscle?
A. THere's no such thing as "toning" -- only biulding muscle and losing fat
B. There's many ways to build hypertrophy for novices.... anything between 5-12 works. Rest range from 30s to 8+ minutes.
C. You build strength with 8-12 reps... just slower than with lower reps and heavier weights and longer rest times.
D. Hence, why lower reps and longer rest times is better for new people since both are good for hypertrophy
On January 30 2012 03:58 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: 1) For the first part, doesn't building muscle imply building strength? Why does it seem to imply they're mutually exclusive? 2) For the second part, doesn't building strength tend to correlate with building muscle?
While muscle mass and strength have a correlation it's not as simple as more muscle = stronger, which is clearly seen when comparing powerlifters/olympic lifters and bodybuilders. The statement also assumes an oversimplistic understanding of 'strength'. Here's an article on the topic.
On January 30 2012 03:58 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: 1) For the first part, doesn't building muscle imply building strength? Why does it seem to imply they're mutually exclusive? 2) For the second part, doesn't building strength tend to correlate with building muscle?
While muscle mass and strength have a correlation it's not as simple as more muscle = stronger, which is clearly seen when comparing powerlifters/olympic lifters and bodybuilders. The statement also assumes an oversimplistic understanding of 'strength'. Here's an article on the topic.
This is true..... if you're above intermediate type training.
Any beginner and intermediate routines focusing on reps 5-8 will be best for strength and hypertrophy to build a good base
Once you get to higher levels of strength, then you can diversify into higher reps/low reps maybe even alteranating for BB
Or purely lower reps for strength.
The problem is that people look at what advanced BBers are doing and automatically assume that they need to be training the same way as them.
No, you need to start off training 3x a week full body with something like SS, SL5x5, or any other good solid novice program for optimal gains in hypertrophy and/or strength
so much bs here :D, especially that cable sissy dudes, toning etc
if you are noob 3x full body workouts weekly with deadlifts, squats and benchpresses(I preffer standing overhead dumbell press) max 45 minutes training 3sets x5-8 with big(120s) rest times between, we are talking about max weight you can do here, look up proper form too, these excersises are the best out there but can fuck you up if you are doing everything wrong
no idea why almost noone advices something similar, oh yea and thats just ~50% the other half is sleep, stress free life and eating correctly
ps. yes strenght gain is correlated with muscle gains and the other way around
On January 30 2012 18:56 napalmion wrote: so much bs here :D, especially that cable sissy dudes, toning etc
if you are noob 3x full body workouts weekly with deadlifts, squats and benchpresses(I preffer standing overhead dumbell press) max 45 minutes training 3sets x5-8 with big(120s) rest times between, we are talking about max weight you can do here, look up proper form too, these excersises are the best out there but can fuck you up if you are doing everything wrong
no idea why almost noone advices something similar, oh yea and thats just ~50% the other half is sleep, stress free life and eating correctly
ps. yes strenght gain is correlated with muscle gains and the other way around
lol you realise this thread is about BODYWEIGHT strength training, right?
noes I dropped the ball on that fact but you realise that these deads, squats and chin ups pull ups will do better than any other stuff if you are starting out I guess you dont think so because you seem shocked!
I know that, but not everyone has access to barbells or even enjoys doing barbell training. we have other topics (like this and this) covering barbell training and you will find that we reccomend starting strength, a classic barbell strength training program, to pretty much everyone who has access to a gym. I am very much in favor of squats and deadlifts! but I also have a lot of respect for bodyweight training because its very very hard.
On January 31 2012 01:19 napalmion wrote: noes I dropped the ball on that fact but you realise that these deads, squats and chin ups pull ups will do better than any other stuff if you are starting out I guess you dont think so because you seem shocked!
Umm, pretty much everyone in the Health and Fitness sub-forum are well aware that exercises such as squats and dead lifts are amazing. We already have plenty of advice in the other threads for novices to follow.
This thread is about achieving different kinds of goals. For example, my dream is to be able to do a planche, and no amount of bench pressing would ever be sufficient to achieve that goal.
Hey eshlow, if you were to make a strength training program with both bodyweight and barbell exercises for a beginner/intermediate, how would you do it?
On January 31 2012 18:20 Necosarius wrote: Hey eshlow, if you were to make a strength training program with both bodyweight and barbell exercises for a beginner/intermediate, how would you do it?
On January 31 2012 18:20 Necosarius wrote: Hey eshlow, if you were to make a strength training program with both bodyweight and barbell exercises for a beginner/intermediate, how would you do it?
Woo just got my rings. At the moment I can't hold a tucked lever for more than a few seconds, can do about 5 dips and have trouble even getting into an hanging L sit position. Let's see how slow I progress...
On January 31 2012 18:20 Necosarius wrote: Hey eshlow, if you were to make a strength training program with both bodyweight and barbell exercises for a beginner/intermediate, how would you do it?
Depends on your goals.. like everything
Strength? Or more specific goals?
No like.... are you training for back lever, front lever, planche, handstand pushups?
It matters because those are specific exercises you are going to integrate with whatever lifting goals you have like bench press or whatever else.
after a long hiatus i've decided to try my hand at bodyweight training.
i've just tried out the basics for the planche, L-sit and front lever
routine is as follows (in order) - plan on doing these MWF or MWSat l-sit (tuck hold): accumulate 60 secs (just did 10 sets of 6 secs) front lever (tuck front lever): failed last session planche (frog stand): accumulate 60 secs (just did 4 sets of 15 secs)
i'm doing ok so far with the frog stand and the tuck hold altho i must admit my arms and core are absolutely fried after doing the tuck hold. tuck front lever on the other hand is just crazy hard.
first day (monday) i tried it i only managed like 2 sec and then i failed the succeeding 3 attempts cause i was just so gassed. then the next workout day (wednesday) i couldn't even manage one
should i be doing hanging leg raises first? or something easier cause i can't do those either lol.
any suggestions?
furthermore, are there any other exercises i should add in like handstand and/or back lever?
edit: oh and my goals are to get better at those movements and to improve strength.
Maybe switch out the front lever altogether and replace with back lever training for now if you're struggling hard? I would also recommend adding in the handstand work. Edit: How competent are you with pullups? Or rows? Those could be helpful for FL. When I'll be able to restart training fully I'm going to go through all these basic things before adding in gymnastic skills/isometrics.
On February 02 2012 23:20 unknown.sam wrote: after a long hiatus i've decided to try my hand at bodyweight training.
i've just tried out the basics for the planche, L-sit and front lever
routine is as follows (in order) - plan on doing these MWF or MWSat l-sit (tuck hold): accumulate 60 secs (just did 10 sets of 6 secs) front lever (tuck front lever): failed last session planche (frog stand): accumulate 60 secs (just did 4 sets of 15 secs)
i'm doing ok so far with the frog stand and the tuck hold altho i must admit my arms and core are absolutely fried after doing the tuck hold. tuck front lever on the other hand is just crazy hard.
first day (monday) i tried it i only managed like 2 sec and then i failed the succeeding 3 attempts cause i was just so gassed. then the next workout day (wednesday) i couldn't even manage one
should i be doing hanging leg raises first? or something easier cause i can't do those either lol.
any suggestions?
furthermore, are there any other exercises i should add in like handstand and/or back lever?
edit: oh and my goals are to get better at those movements and to improve strength.
If you are having a hard time with front level progressions just tuck more and do as much range of motion as you can, curl up in a ball and hold that with as close to your shins being parallell to the ground as you can. I think pretty much anyone should be able to get inverted and then lower through the tuck lever position. Also just work on normal pullups will help with the skill a lot.
On February 03 2012 03:06 4thHatchery wrote: Maybe switch out the front lever altogether and replace with back lever training for now if you're struggling hard? I would also recommend adding in the handstand work. Edit: How competent are you with pullups? Or rows? Those could be helpful for FL. When I'll be able to restart training fully I'm going to go through all these basic things before adding in gymnastic skills/isometrics.
it's been like almost a year since i did any consistent exercise but i can still do 3x5 pull ups albeit it's quite a struggle.
On February 03 2012 05:45 eshlow wrote: Add in some general dips, pullups, row, possibly hspu or other progressive pushup variation type general strength would help.
Sometimes it's hard for people to jump straight into front lever and planche.
Also, handstand work as already stated would be good too
should i just drop the front lever progressions all together while i get myself up to speed with pull ups, dips, handstand work? i know you said add in those exercises but it just seems like a lot of volume if i do those in conjunction with front lever work.
I'm probably a tad ahead of you because I've been doing weights for a while so I have some strength and can bang out 10 chins / 30 push ups / 10 dips but I'm still an absolute begginner in terms of bodyweight stuff but this is what I've been doing.
I've been doing that for a couple of weeks and I think I can do it all now except for the handstand (against a wall) which I can only hold for 30 seconds (but when I started it hurt to do 10s).
On February 03 2012 03:06 4thHatchery wrote: Maybe switch out the front lever altogether and replace with back lever training for now if you're struggling hard? I would also recommend adding in the handstand work. Edit: How competent are you with pullups? Or rows? Those could be helpful for FL. When I'll be able to restart training fully I'm going to go through all these basic things before adding in gymnastic skills/isometrics.
it's been like almost a year since i did any consistent exercise but i can still do 3x5 pull ups albeit it's quite a struggle.
On February 03 2012 05:45 eshlow wrote: Add in some general dips, pullups, row, possibly hspu or other progressive pushup variation type general strength would help.
Sometimes it's hard for people to jump straight into front lever and planche.
Also, handstand work as already stated would be good too
should i just drop the front lever progressions all together while i get myself up to speed with pull ups, dips, handstand work? i know you said add in those exercises but it just seems like a lot of volume if i do those in conjunction with front lever work.
No, if you can complete the 4x15s front lever work (in that amount) then that's fine.
Just add a couple of sets of some of the general work on to supplement the front lever work.
On February 03 2012 21:30 AndyJay wrote: I'm probably a tad ahead of you because I've been doing weights for a while so I have some strength and can bang out 10 chins / 30 push ups / 10 dips but I'm still an absolute begginner in terms of bodyweight stuff but this is what I've been doing.
I've been doing that for a couple of weeks and I think I can do it all now except for the handstand (against a wall) which I can only hold for 30 seconds (but when I started it hurt to do 10s).
If you're having trouble with body positioning a bunch of that is a good idea.
If not, then I don't think all of it is really needed.
Properly done handstand work, ring support work, and L-sit should facilitate enough good core positioning, however, the arch and hollow holds are probably the things should be added next there.
Nothing wrong with doing all of it I guess if that's the way you want to warm up.
I prefer more pure wrist/shoulder mobility work though AS the warm up, coupled with the skill work which will facilitate better body positioning then workout
and the workout should facilitate good body positioning as well.
On February 03 2012 03:06 4thHatchery wrote: Maybe switch out the front lever altogether and replace with back lever training for now if you're struggling hard? I would also recommend adding in the handstand work. Edit: How competent are you with pullups? Or rows? Those could be helpful for FL. When I'll be able to restart training fully I'm going to go through all these basic things before adding in gymnastic skills/isometrics.
it's been like almost a year since i did any consistent exercise but i can still do 3x5 pull ups albeit it's quite a struggle.
On February 03 2012 05:45 eshlow wrote: Add in some general dips, pullups, row, possibly hspu or other progressive pushup variation type general strength would help.
Sometimes it's hard for people to jump straight into front lever and planche.
Also, handstand work as already stated would be good too
should i just drop the front lever progressions all together while i get myself up to speed with pull ups, dips, handstand work? i know you said add in those exercises but it just seems like a lot of volume if i do those in conjunction with front lever work.
No, if you can complete the 4x15s front lever work (in that amount) then that's fine.
Just add a couple of sets of some of the general work on to supplement the front lever work.
i think there's been some misunderstanding.
the 4x15s i mentioned was for planche work (frog stand).
i can't do more than 2 seconds of tuck front lever.
On February 03 2012 03:06 4thHatchery wrote: Maybe switch out the front lever altogether and replace with back lever training for now if you're struggling hard? I would also recommend adding in the handstand work. Edit: How competent are you with pullups? Or rows? Those could be helpful for FL. When I'll be able to restart training fully I'm going to go through all these basic things before adding in gymnastic skills/isometrics.
it's been like almost a year since i did any consistent exercise but i can still do 3x5 pull ups albeit it's quite a struggle.
On February 03 2012 05:45 eshlow wrote: Add in some general dips, pullups, row, possibly hspu or other progressive pushup variation type general strength would help.
Sometimes it's hard for people to jump straight into front lever and planche.
Also, handstand work as already stated would be good too
should i just drop the front lever progressions all together while i get myself up to speed with pull ups, dips, handstand work? i know you said add in those exercises but it just seems like a lot of volume if i do those in conjunction with front lever work.
No, if you can complete the 4x15s front lever work (in that amount) then that's fine.
Just add a couple of sets of some of the general work on to supplement the front lever work.
i think there's been some misunderstanding.
the 4x15s i mentioned was for planche work (frog stand).
i can't do more than 2 seconds of tuck front lever.
Oh, oops.
Yeah, then definitely work on some rowing/pullups to gain strength. Perhaps tuck back lever if you feel comfortable with it
On January 31 2012 18:20 Necosarius wrote: Hey eshlow, if you were to make a strength training program with both bodyweight and barbell exercises for a beginner/intermediate, how would you do it?
Depends on your goals.. like everything
Strength? Or more specific goals?
No like.... are you training for back lever, front lever, planche, handstand pushups?
It matters because those are specific exercises you are going to integrate with whatever lifting goals you have like bench press or whatever else.
Right now I'm focusing on planche and L-sit, stuff that I can do on the floor. I may buy some rings/a pullup bar and work on front lever. But I would also like to work on squats, DL, BP and OHP. There is just so many BW exercises I want to try
On January 31 2012 18:20 Necosarius wrote: Hey eshlow, if you were to make a strength training program with both bodyweight and barbell exercises for a beginner/intermediate, how would you do it?
Depends on your goals.. like everything
Strength? Or more specific goals?
No like.... are you training for back lever, front lever, planche, handstand pushups?
It matters because those are specific exercises you are going to integrate with whatever lifting goals you have like bench press or whatever else.
Right now I'm focusing on planche and L-sit, stuff that I can do on the floor. I may buy some rings/a pullup bar and work on front lever. But I would also like to work on squats, DL, BP and OHP. There is just so many BW exercises I want to try
Hahah, that's fine.
Just make sure you try to keep anything you do balanced -- for every bodyweight push have a bodyweight pulling exercise
ALso, once you narrow down your goals more then focus your routine on that. SS works well because you're doing squats every session -- if you narrow and focus down your goals you can work toward them faster and get stronger more quickly.
On February 03 2012 03:06 4thHatchery wrote: Maybe switch out the front lever altogether and replace with back lever training for now if you're struggling hard? I would also recommend adding in the handstand work. Edit: How competent are you with pullups? Or rows? Those could be helpful for FL. When I'll be able to restart training fully I'm going to go through all these basic things before adding in gymnastic skills/isometrics.
it's been like almost a year since i did any consistent exercise but i can still do 3x5 pull ups albeit it's quite a struggle.
On February 03 2012 05:45 eshlow wrote: Add in some general dips, pullups, row, possibly hspu or other progressive pushup variation type general strength would help.
Sometimes it's hard for people to jump straight into front lever and planche.
Also, handstand work as already stated would be good too
should i just drop the front lever progressions all together while i get myself up to speed with pull ups, dips, handstand work? i know you said add in those exercises but it just seems like a lot of volume if i do those in conjunction with front lever work.
No, if you can complete the 4x15s front lever work (in that amount) then that's fine.
Just add a couple of sets of some of the general work on to supplement the front lever work.
i think there's been some misunderstanding.
the 4x15s i mentioned was for planche work (frog stand).
i can't do more than 2 seconds of tuck front lever.
Oh, oops.
Yeah, then definitely work on some rowing/pullups to gain strength. Perhaps tuck back lever if you feel comfortable with it
yeah tuck back lever is something i can work on. tried a few runs yesterday and it's easier than its front lever counterpart but still pretty hard.
btw, how often should/can i be training handstands?
On February 03 2012 03:06 4thHatchery wrote: Maybe switch out the front lever altogether and replace with back lever training for now if you're struggling hard? I would also recommend adding in the handstand work. Edit: How competent are you with pullups? Or rows? Those could be helpful for FL. When I'll be able to restart training fully I'm going to go through all these basic things before adding in gymnastic skills/isometrics.
it's been like almost a year since i did any consistent exercise but i can still do 3x5 pull ups albeit it's quite a struggle.
On February 03 2012 05:45 eshlow wrote: Add in some general dips, pullups, row, possibly hspu or other progressive pushup variation type general strength would help.
Sometimes it's hard for people to jump straight into front lever and planche.
Also, handstand work as already stated would be good too
should i just drop the front lever progressions all together while i get myself up to speed with pull ups, dips, handstand work? i know you said add in those exercises but it just seems like a lot of volume if i do those in conjunction with front lever work.
No, if you can complete the 4x15s front lever work (in that amount) then that's fine.
Just add a couple of sets of some of the general work on to supplement the front lever work.
i think there's been some misunderstanding.
the 4x15s i mentioned was for planche work (frog stand).
i can't do more than 2 seconds of tuck front lever.
Oh, oops.
Yeah, then definitely work on some rowing/pullups to gain strength. Perhaps tuck back lever if you feel comfortable with it
yeah tuck back lever is something i can work on. tried a few runs yesterday and it's easier than its front lever counterpart but still pretty hard.
btw, how often should/can i be training handstands?
If you feel fresh enough to do it you can train handstand everyday. Most of the time, I would say most people should start off with 3-4x a week and slowly work their way up to 5-6 if not 7 days a week.
Handstand is more of a skill once you build the necessary strength and so more practice (if fresh) is better
for handstand work, since i'm supposed to be in that hollow position, i'm assuming shoulders should be shrugged? would wall walks also be ok to add in this early into training?
when doing german hangs, i'm assuming shoulder blades need to be tight (make them touch each other)? and how long should my german hangs be before i can actually think about any BL work?
On February 06 2012 19:36 unknown.sam wrote: just a few more noobie questions
for handstand work, since i'm supposed to be in that hollow position, i'm assuming shoulders should be shrugged? would wall walks also be ok to add in this early into training?
when doing german hangs, i'm assuming shoulder blades need to be tight (make them touch each other)? and how long should my german hangs be before i can actually think about any BL work?
thanks a bunch!
Yes, shoulders shrugged
You can if that's in your goals... wall walks can be useful to get used to being on one hand and feeling balance. But it's better if you have a freestanding HS first
Tight shoulders is fine. If you're looking for the stretch you can relax everything once you're used to it.
German hangs in and out of the position are just prep. No need to learn to hold it for any significant amount of time except as a stretch; it's good to move in and out of the position to get some strength from that. But anytime you feel you can start to develop BL that's fine.
How's Convict Conditioning for bodyweight? I'm a cross country runner so my cardio's decent but I'm a bit underdeveloped in the upper body. And I'm talking about this routine http://i.imgur.com/ufChH.jpg.
On February 09 2012 09:37 hoppipolla wrote: How's Convict Conditioning for bodyweight? I'm a cross country runner so my cardio's decent but I'm a bit underdeveloped in the upper body. And I'm talking about this routine http://i.imgur.com/ufChH.jpg.
Sure, it's a decent alternative, though the programming leaves a bit to be desired in terms of strength and muscle mass gain
On February 09 2012 09:37 hoppipolla wrote: How's Convict Conditioning for bodyweight? I'm a cross country runner so my cardio's decent but I'm a bit underdeveloped in the upper body. And I'm talking about this routine http://i.imgur.com/ufChH.jpg.
Sure, it's a decent alternative, though the programming leaves a bit to be desired in terms of strength and muscle mass gain
On February 09 2012 09:37 hoppipolla wrote: How's Convict Conditioning for bodyweight? I'm a cross country runner so my cardio's decent but I'm a bit underdeveloped in the upper body. And I'm talking about this routine http://i.imgur.com/ufChH.jpg.
Sure, it's a decent alternative, though the programming leaves a bit to be desired in terms of strength and muscle mass gain
What exercises would you recommend adding to it?
Depends on your goals.
There's a lot of gymnastics type strength work.... for example see beastskills.com
still taking my time to read through all the helpful articles. trying to transition from gym to bodyweight workouts as I might not have a gym to go to for the next month or so. thanks for the great information here eshlow!
If you're using them to work on your handstand, the way they do them is horrible. You want very good form/technique with straight body focusing on proper shoulder and hip alignment when you do them.
If you're doing them for conditioning then well I guess that's OK, but if you ever wanted to work handstands instiling poor form like that isn't going to do you any good when learning more about it later on
hmmm ok what if you handstand pushups like that in the video but abit straighter against the wall? would that still be beneficial? for strength/hypertrophy and handstand development.
On February 12 2012 14:44 jjhchsc2 wrote: hmmm ok what if you handstand pushups like that in the video but abit straighter against the wall? would that still be beneficial? for strength/hypertrophy and handstand development.
Jeez eshlow, way to empower nerds to pursue their dreams (:
Solely and uniquely because of your dedication to helping here, I now know what special book I've asked for, for my birthday. It has something to do with gravity...
On February 13 2012 05:40 bITt.mAN wrote: Jeez eshlow, way to empower nerds to pursue their dreams (:
Solely and uniquely because of your dedication to helping here, I now know what special book I've asked for, for my birthday. It has something to do with gravity...
On February 12 2012 14:44 jjhchsc2 wrote: hmmm ok what if you handstand pushups like that in the video but abit straighter against the wall? would that still be beneficial? for strength/hypertrophy and handstand development.
thanks for that! Back to school now and i was wondering if you would still make strength/hypertrophy gains while on working on pullups,dips,lateral raises/upright rows and L-sit training twice a week only?(so i only do those exercises twice a week each )assuming i get decent nutrition and food and rest. I also have basketball 2-3 times a week as well.
And how should i go about strecthing? i am assuming everyday for about 5-10mins a day? whats the point of pike stretches? Thinking of FINALLY STARTING handstand and L-sit progressions for real.
Ever since New Years (yes, i'm one of those people), i've picked up a new diet/exercise plan. I've recorded EVERYTHING that i've eaten since January 1st on a log, so I can keep track of my diet. I've been working out 3 times a week with weights but no cardio.
I've made sure I've been pushing myself hard every workout, and have been eating really well (really high protein, lower fat, lower carb, 6 small meals a day). However, after a month and a half, I haven't seen too much in terms of results. I'm 18, 5'9", 160 lbs, and when I look in the mirror i look pretty much the same way i did at Christmas.
Does anyone know if there's anything else I can do/ if i'm doing anything wrong and i should fix it? Because it really feels like it, and I wouldn't want to jump to blaming bad genetics for it (although my parents do seem to be endomorphic) Thanks!
Edit: I meant to post this in TL Fitness, sorry! but if anyone has any info, that would be great!
On February 12 2012 14:44 jjhchsc2 wrote: hmmm ok what if you handstand pushups like that in the video but abit straighter against the wall? would that still be beneficial? for strength/hypertrophy and handstand development.
thanks for that! Back to school now and i was wondering if you would still make strength/hypertrophy gains while on working on pullups,dips,lateral raises/upright rows and L-sit training twice a week only?(so i only do those exercises twice a week each )assuming i get decent nutrition and food and rest. I also have basketball 2-3 times a week as well.
And how should i go about strecthing? i am assuming everyday for about 5-10mins a day? whats the point of pike stretches? Thinking of FINALLY STARTING handstand and L-sit progressions for real.
Get rid of upright rows, add overhead pressing or some variation of handstand pushups
And yes,, you can make gains off that
You will also want to add in legs work...
Stretching everyday is fine, usually 5-15 minutes depending on how many muscles you want to hit
On February 12 2012 14:44 jjhchsc2 wrote: hmmm ok what if you handstand pushups like that in the video but abit straighter against the wall? would that still be beneficial? for strength/hypertrophy and handstand development.
thanks for that! Back to school now and i was wondering if you would still make strength/hypertrophy gains while on working on pullups,dips,lateral raises/upright rows and L-sit training twice a week only?(so i only do those exercises twice a week each )assuming i get decent nutrition and food and rest. I also have basketball 2-3 times a week as well.
And how should i go about strecthing? i am assuming everyday for about 5-10mins a day? whats the point of pike stretches? Thinking of FINALLY STARTING handstand and L-sit progressions for real.
Get rid of upright rows, add overhead pressing or some variation of handstand pushups
And yes,, you can make gains off that
You will also want to add in legs work...
Stretching everyday is fine, usually 5-15 minutes depending on how many muscles you want to hit
ok thanks. Leg work would be abit hard since i have basketball 2-3 times a week and it's quite intense. Can't imagine getting any progress with that :/
o shiiiii Just tried handstand against the wall pushups and my head feels like its going to explode. Is it normal? Or am i having crap technique? Anyway to stop it from happening?
On February 14 2012 10:19 jjhchsc2 wrote: o shiiiii Just tried handstand against the wall pushups and my head feels like its going to explode. Is it normal? Or am i having crap technique? Anyway to stop it from happening?
Throw in some squats before a bball session
If you hold your breath it may feel like your head is going to explode.
Try some pike elevated pushups first if that's too much
On February 14 2012 10:19 jjhchsc2 wrote: o shiiiii Just tried handstand against the wall pushups and my head feels like its going to explode. Is it normal? Or am i having crap technique? Anyway to stop it from happening?
Throw in some squats before a bball session
If you hold your breath it may feel like your head is going to explode.
Try some pike elevated pushups first if that's too much
thanks! I dont have any access to a squat rack/barbell so yeah unless you mean bw squats which then i can do like 100(not exaggerating) . doing stretches for my hammies/pike now.
i am doing pike elevated on my bed pushups for now will remember to not hold breath while handstanding ^.^
On February 14 2012 10:19 jjhchsc2 wrote: o shiiiii Just tried handstand against the wall pushups and my head feels like its going to explode. Is it normal? Or am i having crap technique? Anyway to stop it from happening?
Throw in some squats before a bball session
If you hold your breath it may feel like your head is going to explode.
Try some pike elevated pushups first if that's too much
thanks! I dont have any access to a squat rack/barbell so yeah unless you mean bw squats which then i can do like 100(not exaggerating) . doing stretches for my hammies/pike now.
i am doing pike elevated on my bed pushups for now will remember to not hold breath while handstanding ^.^
I'm having a lot of fun and seeing good progress with bodyweight training! Overcoming Gravity is such a wealth of information =] I started with such weak wrists and shoulders. It feels so satisfying to finally strengthen them and start working toward full body strength and flexibility. Although I'm prioritizing hypertrophy atm, as soon as I get my vanity out of the way I'll get strength going full steam. Haven't done anything impressive yet but I'll get there one workout at a time! Anyway I don't have any questions, just wanted to drop in and say that I'm quite enjoying this approach.
I've tried doing single leg squats a variety of ways, pistols, leg behind me, on a box with my leg going straight down, on a decline board, and never quite found a comfortable way. I still think they are a great exercise (I squat almost double BW with a bar), is there a particular method that maximises the benefits that I should try more?
Interesting that you bring up wrist strengh NoNY, I always wonder how heavy resistance training affects the wrists of someone who plays a lot of starcraft. I personally struggle with a big benchpress session or cleans and playing a lot of games in the same day. You see videos of IdrA benching 200lb and wonder what his wrist health is like.
On February 17 2012 05:37 Liquid`NonY wrote: I'm having a lot of fun and seeing good progress with bodyweight training! Overcoming Gravity is such a wealth of information =] I started with such weak wrists and shoulders. It feels so satisfying to finally strengthen them and start working toward full body strength and flexibility. Although I'm prioritizing hypertrophy atm, as soon as I get my vanity out of the way I'll get strength going full steam. Haven't done anything impressive yet but I'll get there one workout at a time! Anyway I don't have any questions, just wanted to drop in and say that I'm quite enjoying this approach.
Awesome. Yeah, feel free to throw up some Q's if you have them.
On February 17 2012 06:06 emjaytron wrote: I've tried doing single leg squats a variety of ways, pistols, leg behind me, on a box with my leg going straight down, on a decline board, and never quite found a comfortable way. I still think they are a great exercise (I squat almost double BW with a bar), is there a particular method that maximises the benefits that I should try more?
Interesting that you bring up wrist strengh NoNY, I always wonder how heavy resistance training affects the wrists of someone who plays a lot of starcraft. I personally struggle with a big benchpress session or cleans and playing a lot of games in the same day. You see videos of IdrA benching 200lb and wonder what his wrist health is like.
It's never really comfortable when you don't have good mobility and balance. Only thing that makes it much better is a lot of practice. So like if strength is not a factor for them throw a bunch in your warm ups and work them as often as you can. As you get better you should get more comfortable with them
Actually I thought of a few questions. they're not really specific to bodyweight training, hope that's okay.
So I'm still running every day because I like running. I like doing three intense running workouts a week, while doing easy recovery runs on the other four days. For bodyweight training, I'm doing 2 push and 2 pull exercises three times a week, as well as some supplemental wrist strengthening exercises and standard warmup/prehabilitation/stretching.
It seems pretty clear to me that I should schedule something like running MON WED SAT and bodyweight training TUES THURS SUN, while doing my easy running on bodyweight days immediately after the bodyweight training. Is this correct? It is also an option for me to do one in the AM and one in the PM. I prefer to do them together but if there's reason to believe splitting them would be better, I'd do it.
Also, when I do bodyweight training immediately followed by an easy run, when is the best time to drink my milk? =] I have no problem drinking my full serving of milk and then doing easy running. But I am still lowering my body fat percentage so if I can get a better fat burn by saving that sugar and protein until after the run, I might prefer that. Oh and what's a recommended amount of milk to drink post workout?
On February 17 2012 09:07 Liquid`NonY wrote: Actually I thought of a few questions. they're not really specific to bodyweight training, hope that's okay.
So I'm still running every day because I like running. I like doing three intense running workouts a week, while doing easy recovery runs on the other four days. For bodyweight training, I'm doing 2 push and 2 pull exercises three times a week, as well as some supplemental wrist strengthening exercises and standard warmup/prehabilitation/stretching.
It seems pretty clear to me that I should schedule something like running MON WED SAT and bodyweight training TUES THURS SUN, while doing my easy running on bodyweight days immediately after the bodyweight training. Is this correct? It is also an option for me to do one in the AM and one in the PM. I prefer to do them together but if there's reason to believe splitting them would be better, I'd do it.
Also, when I do bodyweight training immediately followed by an easy run, when is the best time to drink my milk? =] I have no problem drinking my full serving of milk and then doing easy running. But I am still lowering my body fat percentage so if I can get a better fat burn by saving that sugar and protein until after the run, I might prefer that. Oh and what's a recommended amount of milk to drink post workout?
Well, there's two schools of thought here.
Do most of the hard work on your workout days (so that would mean doing your bodyweight work + hard workouts afterward) and then doing your light runs on the "rest" days. Alternatively, you can do it the way you described.
For newer people I would probably recommend the option I just mentioned just because they actually need the rest days to be really light so they can recover.
However, since you likely have some strong base level of conditioning, I think it's better to do it your way, since then you actually can get a full good workout with your hard runs, while putting most of your energy into the upper body work the other days and then finishing it off with a light run.
Make sense?
Depending on how the easy run is you may be able to do it before your bodyweight training and still get good quality work on the bodyweight work in after. However, if that's not the case, it's generally just best to eat after everything is over.
You will get a better fat burn by waiting to eat PWO after the run, but it will actually be kinda negated by eating after the run overall since you're probably gonna take in a bunch of calories. Typically, if someone is trying to burn fat they'll want to fast after working out, or just have a small amount of carbs and a bunch of protein.
But overall, probably won't make a huge difference.
Actually I thought of a few questions. they're not really specific to bodyweight training, hope that's okay.
So I'm still running every day because I like running. I like doing three intense running workouts a week, while doing easy recovery runs on the other four days. For bodyweight training, I'm doing 2 push and 2 pull exercises three times a week, as well as some supplemental wrist strengthening exercises and standard warmup/prehabilitation/stretching.
It seems pretty clear to me that I should schedule something like running MON WED SAT and bodyweight training TUES THURS SUN, while doing my easy running on bodyweight days immediately after the bodyweight training. Is this correct? It is also an option for me to do one in the AM and one in the PM. I prefer to do them together but if there's reason to believe splitting them would be better, I'd do it.
Also, when I do bodyweight training immediately followed by an easy run, when is the best time to drink my milk? =] I have no problem drinking my full serving of milk and then doing easy running. But I am still lowering my body fat percentage so if I can get a better fat burn by saving that sugar and protein until after the run, I might prefer that. Oh and what's a recommended amount of milk to drink post workout?
As far as splitting your work out, it just depends on your personal schedule, if you have time to do both weight training and running back to back you will get more results from this however compared to splitting them the advantage you gain won't necessarily be a whole lot.
As far as the milk question, instead of drinking milk i'd take a vitamin D supplement (i know this sounds something like pop a pill to fix a problem and I HATE that), there are a few studies showing that milk isn't so good for you as nutritionists once thought. Another good source of protein is greek yogurt, it doesn't taste good on its own but you can get it flavored or put cut up fruit in it to improve the taste. If you are going to drink a milk serving though, best do it with breakfast. Fuel up, so to speak, then burn it off later.
On eating post work out, it is highly recommended that you do eat post work out. Regardless of when you work out you should eat something after wards to help your body restore what you spent working out, the key here is to restore the right stuff and avoid all of the sugar/carbs. The two things nutritionists recommend to refuel are servings of papaya and pineapple. I eat this along with drinking cold iced water after a work out, I find that i'm not as sore the next day.
You have the schedule thing right about the running/body weight training, that schedule works fine. I know long distance runners like to run in sets of three. Say your goal is to run 12 miles (just an example 3 a day is fine) what my friends who long distance run do is run 4 days one day, 8 the next, then 12 on the final day. Working in a cycle of four days, they take the fourth day off, or do some light cardio either biking, walking, or jogging.The system you have is just fine. You are on the right track with alternating intense/light days to help get started.
On a side note about weight training in general, the quickly adapted standard is to work out muscle groups in pairs as opposed to every muscle every day. I do body weight training and I like to do chest/back on day one, biceps/triceps on day two, and then shoulders/legs on the last day; the fourth day I do yoga. This system of training muscles in pairs was made popular by P90x but they stretch the cycle out over a week as opposed to four days. I find the three days of weight training followed by a day of yoga or doing nothing even, works well with the human body. Sometimes I mix around what muscle groups I do on which day or what muscles I work together to see if something works better or worse. And of course I run/bike after the weight training.
As far as fat burning goes, taking omega three (fish oil pills normally) right before bed time will help you burn more fat while you sleep and your body to rebuild, especially if you exercised that day. Omega 3 and Vitamin D also help to naturally fight Depression/anxiety something I struggled with severely for four years. I find taking these natural supplements and working out every day (something recommended to me by a psychiatrist) on a schedule worked far better for me than any psychotropic medication I ever took. In general though, the omega three stuff works great for extra fat burn and its also offered in the form of seeds if you want to add them to a protein shake or tea.
On a side note about weight training in general, the quickly adapted standard is to work out muscle groups in pairs as opposed to every muscle every day. I do body weight training and I like to do chest/back on day one, biceps/triceps on day two, and then shoulders/legs on the last day; the fourth day I do yoga. This system of training muscles in pairs was made popular by P90x but they stretch the cycle out over a week as opposed to four days.
No... splits are crappy compared to full body for novice/intermediate strength/hypertrophy.
Milk, especially full fat, is still fine if you're not allergic. Theoretically, should not need to supplement D if getting outside a bunch (although people on this forum generally don't get out much so yeah).
Rest I guess I could generally agree with, although, not always what I would recommend. Eh.
Chest/back and biceps/triceps is an unnecessary split anyway. Most good chest exercises I would do have a strong triceps component (bench/dumbell press, dip, pushup) and many back exercises have a strong biceps element (bent rows, chin/pullups). Why bother breaking them up. But then this isn't strictly bodyweight so offtopic
Just a heads up if you're trying to build muscle... that's not going to happen within the first 6-8 weeks of training because in that window, it's mostly just neuromuscular changes.
On February 19 2012 02:19 Ero-Sennin wrote: Just a heads up if you're trying to build muscle... that's not going to happen within the first 6-8 weeks of training because in that window, it's mostly just neuromuscular changes.
The numbers I have seen are typically 3-4 weeks.
I'm still skeptical about this namely because when you actually work out and damage a muscle, it repairs itself and therefore WILL hypertrophy (whether it's by adding sacroplasmic or electrolyte/metabolic constituents to the muscles).
I believe the actual "no hypertrophy" is there is actually not much increase in myofibrillar constituents -- e.g. contractile proteins -- for a while, but muscles DO actually get bigger and get stronger on programs like Starting Strength in just a couple workouts.
So I'm wanting to start to focus on bodyweight training; I have a way to do dips/pullups and I'll be getting some rings as well (any recommendations in particular?) and I have a floor so I think I'll have everything I need... but what's bothering me is program/exercise selection.
It seems, much unlike barbell training, everywhere I go to try and find a routine to start with, I end up staring at the same thing: "Depends on your goals". There's pieces of information here and there, I found most exercise progressions, and I know the idea of mixing pushing/pulling, core work, handstand work, static/dynamic exercises but there's really nothing that I've seen that brings it all together and lays it out in a way similar to, say SS for barbells.
I mean regardless of your goals in weight training, whether it be beach body, olympic lifts/power, bodybuilding, raw strength, sport performance, etc. you can point a beginner to a routine like SS/SL which lays out what exercises to do, when and how to progress, and have them on their way. Why can't I find something like this for bodyweight training? How do I figure out what exercises to include for balanced training, when to progress (e.g. for how long do I have to be able to hold a particular hold before moving onto the more difficult variation etc), and how to structure my sets/reps/time holds/rest periods/workout days? The closest thing I've found is the 'routine construction' subsection from eatmoveimprove as linked in the OP, and even there it's quite general with no particular details as to what actually constitutes "5-10 minutes of wall handstand work" or what level of proficiency is required to move onto the next progression exercise
I mean regardless of your goals in weight training, whether it be beach body, olympic lifts/power, bodybuilding, raw strength, sport performance, etc. you can point a beginner to a routine like SS/SL which lays out what exercises to do, when and how to progress, and have them on their way.
Why can't I find something like this for bodyweight training?
At beginner level... let say working on handstand, L-sit, dips, pullups, rows, and some pushup variation, pistols/single leg squat there's not much stuff you can do OTHER than that which would be more optimal than what you're doing.
However, once you work your way into an advanced beginner/intermediate level of strength you can be doing tons of things: planches, back lever, front lever, dips, pullups, rows, pushups, handstand pushups, muscle ups, etc.
Once you get more advanced that that there's TONS of more stuff you can do.
The "Skill trees" branch off so much that training that it really actually depends on your goals beyond beginner level of ability.
How do I figure out what exercises to include for balanced training, when to progress (e.g. for how long do I have to be able to hold a particular hold before moving onto the more difficult variation etc), and how to structure my sets/reps/time holds/rest periods/workout days? The closest thing I've found is the 'routine construction' subsection from eatmoveimprove as linked in the OP, and even there it's quite general with no particular details as to what actually constitutes "5-10 minutes of wall handstand work" or what level of proficiency is required to move onto the next progression exercise
The EMI link is probably the best programming article on the internet for bodyweight work, so you're not going to get much more detail than that aside from people answering your questions.
I also laid out guidelines for all of your questions within the Overcoming Gravity book.
Regardless, here's some answers since telling you to buy the book isn't constructive.
1. Balanced training -- generally structure so you have as many push as pull exercises.
2. Holds depend on your current ability... I would say aim for about 60-70% of your max hold and 3-5 sets aiming toward about a minute of holds. Though this is general; I constructed a prilepin table for isometrics in the book.
3. sets/rest/etc. depends on your goals (strength/hypertrophy/what what level of progression you're on, etc.)
4. 5-10 mins of handstand work varies depending on how much time you have to work the skills... if shorter time, then you do 5-10 minutes total and work on increasing time inverted while making sure you're not fatigued such that you have bad practice. Or, if you're more advanced you can spend 5-10 minutes total inverted. Many options inbetween those two.
5. The proficiency to move onto the next progression is variable... the guidelines I laid out in the book is being able to get a 5-6s hold, 3 reps of the next exercise, or 3s eccentric. But it depends on what exercise progression you are at and if you need some intermediate steps between them
I absolutely recommend getting eshlow's book. The exercise sheets and the section with basic routine examples for both hypertrophy and strength are so awesome once you've decided what your goals are.
@eshlow: I have a question regarding Wall-Handstands. I have only trained them since 2 weeks or so. I read from Coach Summer on gymnasticbodiesthat you should get your hands as close as 10-15cm to the wall (and then just hold yourself up with as few toes as possibe) and slowly work your way towards 0-5cm. This is to get the right body alignment for real handstands later on. Now I have managed to get ~20cm towards the wall. And I am wondering since I am a very big guy, if it is ok if my hands are farther away. Because, quite frankly, my gut just seems to be in the way when I try to get closer to the wall.
Thanks in advance (also to anyone else who could help me out).
What a positive and a surprising thing to see you start handstands (also GJ on the chinups). I don't want to risk giving incorrect advise so I'll leave that to someone who knows better. Though, I think you should maybe post how long your current holds are.
As I mentioned in the other thread I have always been a big guy and nowadays, I am a bit obsessed with gaining control over my own body. And quite frankly, seeing gymnasts at work looks like magic to me (though I am way more fascinated with the strength aspect than the artistic aspect). I would most likely choose bodyweight training over external resistance training (with the exception of squats and deadlifts) if I could, but one has to be realistic. When you are way beyond 100kg bw, you have to do what you can, and bodyweight training is something I could never ever do only six months back. I mean, when I tried negatives for chin-ups at 150kg bw or so, it is basically like falling down, just that I risked the health of my ligaments on the way down. Just as a reminder to myself where I am coming from. But right now, besides the big barbell excercises, I do Dips, Chins, Push-Up-Variations, Inverted Rows and so on, so basically all bodyweight assistance exercises.
Anyway, back to topic. I can probably hold a Wall-Handstand for 45sec or so with one feet off the wall. Could be a bit more or a bit less, but above 30seconds and not yet a minute.
- static hold: 60 sec plank 60 sec reverse plank 60 sec arch hold 60 sec hollow hold (50sec) 60 sec support hold 60 sec dead hang (40sec) 60 sec inverted hang 60 sec L-sit tuck (just started with these, still working on pushing myself off the ground for more than 15seconds)
The bold ones I can hold for at least a minute. Didn't do inverted hangs yet, and added durations for the other ones.
On February 28 2012 01:29 Malinor wrote: @eshlow: I have a question regarding Wall-Handstands. I have only trained them since 2 weeks or so. I read from Coach Summer on gymnasticbodiesthat you should get your hands as close as 10-15cm to the wall (and then just hold yourself up with as few toes as possibe) and slowly work your way towards 0-5cm. This is to get the right body alignment for real handstands later on. Now I have managed to get ~20cm towards the wall. And I am wondering since I am a very big guy, if it is ok if my hands are farther away. Because, quite frankly, my gut just seems to be in the way when I try to get closer to the wall.
Thanks in advance (also to anyone else who could help me out).
Basically, you want to be totally balanced over your hands. Therefore, your hands should be directly under the middle of your body -- so if that's 20cm from the wall then that's fine.
I typically tell people to bring them in as close as possible with a straight body -- usually that's with the hands maybe 4-6" from the wall (or 10-15cm or so). But it can be more or less depending on how thin/thick you are.
if anybody could help, i have a question maybe for this thread? whenever i do pull/chin ups, my body swings around back and fourth and this is very frustrating. it might have something to do with the speed i am doing them (i am doing 1minute p90 style blasts)? is there some form to my body/legs i should be doing to maintain a straight up/down motion? i am using a door style chin up bar.
On February 29 2012 02:20 a176 wrote: if anybody could help, i have a question maybe for this thread? whenever i do pull/chin ups, my body swings around back and fourth and this is very frustrating. it might have something to do with the speed i am doing them (i am doing 1minute p90 style blasts)? is there some form to my body/legs i should be doing to maintain a straight up/down motion? i am using a door style chin up bar.
Are you using your legs for momentum to get up?
That's the only way I can see you would start swinging because if you are just pulling with your shoulders/arms you should not swing at all
I find that if I bend my legs back and then start the pull/chin ups at full extension it helps lessen the swing. I've had that happen to me even if I don't try and use my lower body for momentum.
I mean regardless of your goals in weight training, whether it be beach body, olympic lifts/power, bodybuilding, raw strength, sport performance, etc. you can point a beginner to a routine like SS/SL which lays out what exercises to do, when and how to progress, and have them on their way.
Why can't I find something like this for bodyweight training?
At beginner level... let say working on handstand, L-sit, dips, pullups, rows, and some pushup variation, pistols/single leg squat there's not much stuff you can do OTHER than that which would be more optimal than what you're doing.
However, once you work your way into an advanced beginner/intermediate level of strength you can be doing tons of things: planches, back lever, front lever, dips, pullups, rows, pushups, handstand pushups, muscle ups, etc.
Once you get more advanced that that there's TONS of more stuff you can do.
The "Skill trees" branch off so much that training that it really actually depends on your goals beyond beginner level of ability.
How do I figure out what exercises to include for balanced training, when to progress (e.g. for how long do I have to be able to hold a particular hold before moving onto the more difficult variation etc), and how to structure my sets/reps/time holds/rest periods/workout days? The closest thing I've found is the 'routine construction' subsection from eatmoveimprove as linked in the OP, and even there it's quite general with no particular details as to what actually constitutes "5-10 minutes of wall handstand work" or what level of proficiency is required to move onto the next progression exercise
The EMI link is probably the best programming article on the internet for bodyweight work, so you're not going to get much more detail than that aside from people answering your questions.
I also laid out guidelines for all of your questions within the Overcoming Gravity book.
Regardless, here's some answers since telling you to buy the book isn't constructive.
1. Balanced training -- generally structure so you have as many push as pull exercises.
2. Holds depend on your current ability... I would say aim for about 60-70% of your max hold and 3-5 sets aiming toward about a minute of holds. Though this is general; I constructed a prilepin table for isometrics in the book.
3. sets/rest/etc. depends on your goals (strength/hypertrophy/what what level of progression you're on, etc.)
4. 5-10 mins of handstand work varies depending on how much time you have to work the skills... if shorter time, then you do 5-10 minutes total and work on increasing time inverted while making sure you're not fatigued such that you have bad practice. Or, if you're more advanced you can spend 5-10 minutes total inverted. Many options inbetween those two.
5. The proficiency to move onto the next progression is variable... the guidelines I laid out in the book is being able to get a 5-6s hold, 3 reps of the next exercise, or 3s eccentric. But it depends on what exercise progression you are at and if you need some intermediate steps between them
Perfect, thanks for this. I also found some beginner warmup holds on gymnasticbodies as well as that concept of 'steady state cycle' which seems widespread. Off I go ;D
On February 27 2012 22:19 eshlow wrote: Okay, here's the answers to your questions.
I mean regardless of your goals in weight training, whether it be beach body, olympic lifts/power, bodybuilding, raw strength, sport performance, etc. you can point a beginner to a routine like SS/SL which lays out what exercises to do, when and how to progress, and have them on their way.
Why can't I find something like this for bodyweight training?
At beginner level... let say working on handstand, L-sit, dips, pullups, rows, and some pushup variation, pistols/single leg squat there's not much stuff you can do OTHER than that which would be more optimal than what you're doing.
However, once you work your way into an advanced beginner/intermediate level of strength you can be doing tons of things: planches, back lever, front lever, dips, pullups, rows, pushups, handstand pushups, muscle ups, etc.
Once you get more advanced that that there's TONS of more stuff you can do.
The "Skill trees" branch off so much that training that it really actually depends on your goals beyond beginner level of ability.
How do I figure out what exercises to include for balanced training, when to progress (e.g. for how long do I have to be able to hold a particular hold before moving onto the more difficult variation etc), and how to structure my sets/reps/time holds/rest periods/workout days? The closest thing I've found is the 'routine construction' subsection from eatmoveimprove as linked in the OP, and even there it's quite general with no particular details as to what actually constitutes "5-10 minutes of wall handstand work" or what level of proficiency is required to move onto the next progression exercise
The EMI link is probably the best programming article on the internet for bodyweight work, so you're not going to get much more detail than that aside from people answering your questions.
I also laid out guidelines for all of your questions within the Overcoming Gravity book.
Regardless, here's some answers since telling you to buy the book isn't constructive.
1. Balanced training -- generally structure so you have as many push as pull exercises.
2. Holds depend on your current ability... I would say aim for about 60-70% of your max hold and 3-5 sets aiming toward about a minute of holds. Though this is general; I constructed a prilepin table for isometrics in the book.
3. sets/rest/etc. depends on your goals (strength/hypertrophy/what what level of progression you're on, etc.)
4. 5-10 mins of handstand work varies depending on how much time you have to work the skills... if shorter time, then you do 5-10 minutes total and work on increasing time inverted while making sure you're not fatigued such that you have bad practice. Or, if you're more advanced you can spend 5-10 minutes total inverted. Many options inbetween those two.
5. The proficiency to move onto the next progression is variable... the guidelines I laid out in the book is being able to get a 5-6s hold, 3 reps of the next exercise, or 3s eccentric. But it depends on what exercise progression you are at and if you need some intermediate steps between them
Perfect, thanks for this. I also found some beginner warmup holds on gymnasticbodies as well as that concept of 'steady state cycle' which seems widespread. Off I go ;D
Well, you can do that if you want.
I personally think steady state cycles underestimate the ability of novices and intermediates to adapt and thus will give you slower progress. Thus, I don't advise them at all.
Though, I guess I should say the disclaimer that Sommer pretty much banned me off his forum (changed my e-mail and then deactivated my account) for producing Overcoming Gravity and he deletes all references to it off of GB. So take that for what you will.
On February 29 2012 11:32 AoN.DimSum wrote: btw i was talking with a trainer at rutgers who does bodyweight training and he said he knows you from a parkour forum eshlow!
I am going to buy your book at start doing some of it in the mornings since I need to get stronger.
Woo huge progress session today, first muscle up (on wide chin up bars, needed a big swing) and first decent set of wall handstand pushups. Only thing I'm really disappointed in is my L sit progress, not even close to getting my legs horizontal on dip bars for even a second. I can hold my legs with a 90 deg bend on dip bars for 30 seconds but can't seem to get them up straight more then 45 deg, really annoying. I can hold a tuck L sit on the ground for around 5 seconds. Not sure what to focus on, my choices are
leg raises with back support leg raises on dip bar/hanging bent knee hold on dip bar/hanging straight leg hold at angle L sit tuck practise on ground
or maybe something else or just all of the above?
Really want that L sit godamnit!
Oh yeah found another thing it seems I'm actually good at, weighted chin ups. I'm up to 20kg 5x3. For some reason these are easier for me than the dips which I struggle to get 2 sets out. Going for 25 5x3 next week.
On March 08 2012 20:11 AndyJay wrote: Woo huge progress session today, first muscle up (on wide chin up bars, needed a big swing) and first decent set of wall handstand pushups. Only thing I'm really disappointed in is my L sit progress, not even close to getting my legs horizontal on dip bars for even a second. I can hold my legs with a 90 deg bend on dip bars for 30 seconds but can't seem to get them up straight more then 45 deg, really annoying. I can hold a tuck L sit on the ground for around 5 seconds. Not sure what to focus on, my choices are
leg raises with back support leg raises on dip bar/hanging bent knee hold on dip bar/hanging straight leg hold at angle L sit tuck practise on ground
or maybe something else or just all of the above?
Really want that L sit godamnit!
Oh yeah found another thing it seems I'm actually good at, weighted chin ups. I'm up to 20kg 5x3. For some reason these are easier for me than the dips which I struggle to get 2 sets out. Going for 25 5x3 next week.
Does it feel like a strength issue, or flexibility issue, or both?
My choice for strengthening is either hanging leg raises, or compression work
flexibility obviously you gotta work on your hammies
On February 29 2012 11:32 AoN.DimSum wrote: btw i was talking with a trainer at rutgers who does bodyweight training and he said he knows you from a parkour forum eshlow!
I am going to buy your book at start doing some of it in the mornings since I need to get stronger.
Got a name for me?
I know a couple of people from Rutgers :p
Sounds good though.
Chris, i dont really know his last name. But he recently got usaw certified so he can be a trainer in the olympic weightlifting gym.
On February 29 2012 11:32 AoN.DimSum wrote: btw i was talking with a trainer at rutgers who does bodyweight training and he said he knows you from a parkour forum eshlow!
I am going to buy your book at start doing some of it in the mornings since I need to get stronger.
Got a name for me?
I know a couple of people from Rutgers :p
Sounds good though.
Chris, i dont really know his last name. But he recently got usaw certified so he can be a trainer in the olympic weightlifting gym.
btw who else do you know at rutgers?
Ah... Chris Moran perhaps?
I know a couple people from the PK community there who I've met maybe once or twice.
On March 08 2012 22:29 eshlow wrote: Does it feel like a strength issue, or flexibility issue, or both?
My choice for strengthening is either hanging leg raises, or compression work
flexibility obviously you gotta work on your hammies
I do have poor flexibility, although it is definitely improving, but I don't think it's my limiting factor. I can raise my legs up to horizontal fine on this piece of equipment.
I'm guessing my inability to do it with out the back support means I'm lacking core (mainly abdominal) strength? In support of this hypothesis is my completely shitty ability to do situps. I really struggle doing 15 normal un weighted situps.
What's an example of compression work? I'm not familiar with the term.
Also I put an order in for your book Eshlow! Hopefully I won't have to ask so many questions through a forum after it comes.
Has anyone here got any experience in incorporating bodyweight training into a standard SL type schedule?
I've just started SL from what I was doing before, and wondering what bodyweight exercises people have done on what days. Raw strength is my main focus, but there's something attractive about being able to master your own bodyweight. Seems like there's some good core focused stuff there too (that's not just lower back from squats/deadlift).
On March 14 2012 04:46 Deadeight wrote: Has anyone here got any experience in incorporating bodyweight training into a standard SL type schedule?
I've just started SL from what I was doing before, and wondering what bodyweight exercises people have done on what days. Raw strength is my main focus, but there's something attractive about being able to master your own bodyweight. Seems like there's some good core focused stuff there too (that's not just lower back from squats/deadlift).
Writing an article on bodyweight integrated with weights in the near future.
It pretty much boils down on what you want to learn though.... if there's specific skills or strength moves like handstands, handstand pushups, planche, front lever, etc then you can focus on those...
I read the two first chapters of your book Eshlow and so far I am very impressed. Quite a few of the things you can read on your sites and the guides on TL, but nonetheless it's really good. Im setting some goals but haven't gotten to point of constructing the workout plan yet. Nonetheless I really like your systematic method of explaining the things to the newbie and then using it. Looking forward to your piece on integrating bodyweight with SS stuff.
On March 14 2012 04:46 Deadeight wrote: Has anyone here got any experience in incorporating bodyweight training into a standard SL type schedule?
I've just started SL from what I was doing before, and wondering what bodyweight exercises people have done on what days. Raw strength is my main focus, but there's something attractive about being able to master your own bodyweight. Seems like there's some good core focused stuff there too (that's not just lower back from squats/deadlift).
Writing an article on bodyweight integrated with weights in the near future.
It pretty much boils down on what you want to learn though.... if there's specific skills or strength moves like handstands, handstand pushups, planche, front lever, etc then you can focus on those...
A handstand pushup was actually what I was thinking of, I've never even managed close to a handstand before. I'm 6ft2 and I want to focus on getting a big squat/DL, so maybe it's not a realistic goal for the near future, but I want to build up to it.
I'm guessing your book covers this? Is US amazon the only way to purchase it?
On March 14 2012 17:04 Advocado wrote: I read the two first chapters of your book Eshlow and so far I am very impressed. Quite a few of the things you can read on your sites and the guides on TL, but nonetheless it's really good. Im setting some goals but haven't gotten to point of constructing the workout plan yet. Nonetheless I really like your systematic method of explaining the things to the newbie and then using it. Looking forward to your piece on integrating bodyweight with SS stuff.
On March 14 2012 04:46 Deadeight wrote: Has anyone here got any experience in incorporating bodyweight training into a standard SL type schedule?
I've just started SL from what I was doing before, and wondering what bodyweight exercises people have done on what days. Raw strength is my main focus, but there's something attractive about being able to master your own bodyweight. Seems like there's some good core focused stuff there too (that's not just lower back from squats/deadlift).
Writing an article on bodyweight integrated with weights in the near future.
It pretty much boils down on what you want to learn though.... if there's specific skills or strength moves like handstands, handstand pushups, planche, front lever, etc then you can focus on those...
A handstand pushup was actually what I was thinking of, I've never even managed close to a handstand before. I'm 6ft2 and I want to focus on getting a big squat/DL, so maybe it's not a realistic goal for the near future, but I want to build up to it.
I'm guessing your book covers this? Is US amazon the only way to purchase it?
Yeah, Amazon.com is the only way to purchase it at the moment... I'm trying to look at some other options for European customers though. :\
On March 14 2012 17:04 Advocado wrote: I read the two first chapters of your book Eshlow and so far I am very impressed. Quite a few of the things you can read on your sites and the guides on TL, but nonetheless it's really good. Im setting some goals but haven't gotten to point of constructing the workout plan yet. Nonetheless I really like your systematic method of explaining the things to the newbie and then using it. Looking forward to your piece on integrating bodyweight with SS stuff.
On March 14 2012 04:46 Deadeight wrote: Has anyone here got any experience in incorporating bodyweight training into a standard SL type schedule?
I've just started SL from what I was doing before, and wondering what bodyweight exercises people have done on what days. Raw strength is my main focus, but there's something attractive about being able to master your own bodyweight. Seems like there's some good core focused stuff there too (that's not just lower back from squats/deadlift).
Writing an article on bodyweight integrated with weights in the near future.
It pretty much boils down on what you want to learn though.... if there's specific skills or strength moves like handstands, handstand pushups, planche, front lever, etc then you can focus on those...
A handstand pushup was actually what I was thinking of, I've never even managed close to a handstand before. I'm 6ft2 and I want to focus on getting a big squat/DL, so maybe it's not a realistic goal for the near future, but I want to build up to it.
I'm guessing your book covers this? Is US amazon the only way to purchase it?
Yeah, Amazon.com is the only way to purchase it at the moment... I'm trying to look at some other options for European customers though. :\
You could try amazon.co.uk? They ship to all of Europe, I'm sure you though about this option tho
Flag is put there as an afterthought because I want to able to do it, but don't quite know where it belongs.
I got access to a gym, should I mix in squats?
That should be fine to start off with. I'd hold off on the flag work for now at least until you are more conditioned to doing gymnastics based work.
And yes, you can add squats to your days.
On March 20 2012 15:38 AndyJay wrote: Just received my copy of Overcoming Gravity... there is a @#!*% of a lot of words in this book. Gonna keep me busy for a while.
Let me know if you have Q's or want a routine critique!
On March 14 2012 17:04 Advocado wrote: I read the two first chapters of your book Eshlow and so far I am very impressed. Quite a few of the things you can read on your sites and the guides on TL, but nonetheless it's really good. Im setting some goals but haven't gotten to point of constructing the workout plan yet. Nonetheless I really like your systematic method of explaining the things to the newbie and then using it. Looking forward to your piece on integrating bodyweight with SS stuff.
Excellent.
On March 14 2012 22:56 Deadeight wrote:
On March 14 2012 09:07 eshlow wrote:
On March 14 2012 04:46 Deadeight wrote: Has anyone here got any experience in incorporating bodyweight training into a standard SL type schedule?
I've just started SL from what I was doing before, and wondering what bodyweight exercises people have done on what days. Raw strength is my main focus, but there's something attractive about being able to master your own bodyweight. Seems like there's some good core focused stuff there too (that's not just lower back from squats/deadlift).
Writing an article on bodyweight integrated with weights in the near future.
It pretty much boils down on what you want to learn though.... if there's specific skills or strength moves like handstands, handstand pushups, planche, front lever, etc then you can focus on those...
A handstand pushup was actually what I was thinking of, I've never even managed close to a handstand before. I'm 6ft2 and I want to focus on getting a big squat/DL, so maybe it's not a realistic goal for the near future, but I want to build up to it.
I'm guessing your book covers this? Is US amazon the only way to purchase it?
Yeah, Amazon.com is the only way to purchase it at the moment... I'm trying to look at some other options for European customers though. :\
You could try amazon.co.uk? They ship to all of Europe, I'm sure you though about this option tho
It's not on amazon.co.uk unfortunately. Only .com.
Hello guys, I've been body weight training for about 3 weeks now and I'm actually seeing great progress!
One problem though is that I'm noticing visible differences between my shoulders, and I asked some friends to see today and they confirmed this. I also think my pecs are a bit imbalanced too, because it feels like one is thicker/bigger than the other. Also, one of my traps are wayy bigger than the others, I believe this is from pull-ups.
The part of my body that's strong is my right side on every body part.
Anyone know how to correct this? I didn't have to worry about this when I was training with dumbbells -_-.
So my handstand felt pretty good, but I thought getting a video would be a better indication of my form and as it turns out my form was horrendous. Apparently there's a big difference between thinking your body is straight and actually being straight.
On March 23 2012 08:12 Dzemoo wrote: Hello guys, I've been body weight training for about 3 weeks now and I'm actually seeing great progress!
One problem though is that I'm noticing visible differences between my shoulders, and I asked some friends to see today and they confirmed this. I also think my pecs are a bit imbalanced too, because it feels like one is thicker/bigger than the other. Also, one of my traps are wayy bigger than the others, I believe this is from pull-ups.
The part of my body that's strong is my right side on every body part.
Anyone know how to correct this? I didn't have to worry about this when I was training with dumbbells -_-.
If you're not doing unilateral exercises it should eventually even out if you don't compensate to your right side when you start to get tired. This is fairly normal for most people though to have one side that is a bit stronger/bigger than the other.
Otherwise, you can go back to DBs if you're worried.
On March 23 2012 20:54 AndyJay wrote: So my handstand felt pretty good, but I thought getting a video would be a better indication of my form and as it turns out my form was horrendous. Apparently there's a big difference between thinking your body is straight and actually being straight.
I've been toying around in my head with doing bodyweight training. It was something I've been wanting to do and, after seeing the cirque du soleil in person, decided that it'd be pretty damn cool. I won't be starting until the summer, but a quick question for ya.
For a beginner in bodyweight training, but not in lifting, should I start with Convict Conditioning or your book?
I've been toying around in my head with doing bodyweight training. It was something I've been wanting to do and, after seeing the cirque du soleil in person, decided that it'd be pretty damn cool. I won't be starting until the summer, but a quick question for ya.
For a beginner in bodyweight training, but not in lifting, should I start with Convict Conditioning or your book?
Thanks in advance man :D
If you're interested in learning gymnastics/hand balance type stuff the OG is pretty much the book you want.
CC has 6 total exercises the pistol progression, hanging leg raise, pushups -> one arm pushups, chinups -> one arm chin, bridges, and handstand pushups.
Everything else aside from HLR and pistol my book has plus a lot more. You can check out the table of contents if you want on Amazon. I don't discuss bodyweight leg exercises as I think weights are superior for the legs.
Plus you have tons of positive reviews on amazon. 'Grats man :D
I saw in one of the reviews it mentioned a section edition. Any truth? Also, will it be out by June?
Edit: One last question. Can I grab the book, open it up to the sample level 1 program in the back and start right away while reading the book, or should I actually read the entire thing before starting?
Well I'm not eshlow, but I think it's okay to start right away with the first programs. Plus the book has like 500 pages. I have a feeling I've read somewhere, perhaps in the book itself, that one of the reasons for the summaries of chapters is to help those who aren't that interested in the more scientific stuff. Basically you don't have to be an expert to get useful info out of the book, rather it's useful for people of all levels.
Hmm... I'm hesitant to give advice since I'm pretty clueless myself, but since eshlow's pc is apparently busted, I can at least post to show you that there are people in the bodyweight thread and your post has been read :D.
Will you be training three times a week like in SS? If so, for me personally that seems pretty low volume. Though you didn't post how many reps or sets you'll be doing, so I could be wrong. You say that you're planning this routine. Does that mean you haven't been training with this yet? I saw you had a routine proposition on page 5. What was your reason behind ditching that one and coming up with this one instead? Once you've done this for a while see how you feel, and if your recovery is fine I would suggest you do handstand work on every workout and possibly l-sit as well since eshlow recommends pairing handstand with l-sit/manna work.
On April 05 2012 10:15 Catch wrote: That's okay, looks like I'll be going with OG.
Plus you have tons of positive reviews on amazon. 'Grats man :D
I saw in one of the reviews it mentioned a section edition. Any truth? Also, will it be out by June?
Edit: One last question. Can I grab the book, open it up to the sample level 1 program in the back and start right away while reading the book, or should I actually read the entire thing before starting?
second edition will likely be out in 2-2.5 years from now. I haven't even started on it!
I put in sample programming but it's only as an example. The book teaches you how to make a routine towards your goals... that was the main point of writing the book rather than write routines for them. So no, you shouldn't use any of the sample programming.... but you should read it and use the info to construct one for yourself.
As stated before, if you don't want to read the whole thing you can skip to the end of the chapters and just build a routine though.
On April 05 2012 16:21 unknown.sam wrote: Ok so im planning to do a 2 push/pull bodyweight routine.
The exercises ive chosen are Push - handstand work/dips Pull - back lever/chins
Workout A Handstands Back lever
Workout B Dips Chins
I will be alternating between workout A and workout B much like in SS
I also wanna add in L-sit work but im not sure how im gonna fit that in or if i'll have the capacity to do so.
Any comments/suggestions on my planned routine?
Are you adding this to something? Or are you alternating these from day to day?
All of this is something you can do in a single routine fairly easily.
I do recommend pairing HS with L-sit and then you can add another push.
So I'm still chasing my first L sit... and I'm finding it really tough going but so rewarding still to see progression. I think in some way I know that if you eat enough and lift heavy weights you can't help but get stronger, and that comes naturally to me. However doing handstands, spending 20 minutes stretching, or 10 mins just practising balancing frogstands requires more discipline and determination then banging out another set of deadlifts. Workout to workout I see no progression, and very little week to week, but if I look back 4 weeks ago I can definitely see improvement. Today I did an L-sit on my parallettes with straight legs with my feet just off the floor. I only held it for 5 seconds and I know it's a very basic beginner progression, but I know there was no way I could do that 4 weeks ago and godamn it felt good.
@unknown.sam
I've been doing handstand and L sit work everyday as well as ring pushups/chinups/dips most days and I think it's working well. Just watch out for the big bad signs of over-training like injury/pain (beyond doms), fatigue and regression on ability.
On April 06 2012 21:54 AndyJay wrote: So I'm still chasing my first L sit... and I'm finding it really tough going but so rewarding still to see progression. I think in some way I know that if you eat enough and lift heavy weights you can't help but get stronger, and that comes naturally to me. However doing handstands, spending 20 minutes stretching, or 10 mins just practising balancing frogstands requires more discipline and determination then banging out another set of deadlifts. Workout to workout I see no progression, and very little week to week, but if I look back 4 weeks ago I can definitely see improvement. Today I did an L-sit on my parallettes with straight legs with my feet just off the floor. I only held it for 5 seconds and I know it's a very basic beginner progression, but I know there was no way I could do that 4 weeks ago and godamn it felt good.
@unknown.sam
I've been doing handstand and L sit work everyday as well as ring pushups/chinups/dips most days and I think it's working well. Just watch out for the big bad signs of over-training like injury/pain (beyond doms), fatigue and regression on ability.
sup! here is my current plan for workouts. A: Handstands 4x40-50seconds with last 1 or 2 sets to failure pullups - 3-4 sets of 6 with last set to failure.
B: L-sit core strength training- 20-30 seconds of parallet training supersetted with 5-7 reps of roman chair leg raises (much easier than hanging leg raises) x 3 or 4 sets. Dips- 4x6 with last set to failure.
its sort of a split within my week with mon-A Tues-B Wednesday-pistols/cardio thurs-A fri-B saturday-basketball sunday rest
I have been doing this for a few weeks now and it seems to be fine since it sort of low volume and i have been resting/eating well i think. Any suggestions? Should i increase my rep range for pullups if i am aiming for strength/hyper?
@unknown sam wow our workouts are almost identical!
3x a week with 2 push, and 2 pull exercises is preferable (plus skill work like handstand, and L-sit) and maybe a leg or two exercise. So 5-6 total exercises + 1-2 skills is fine.
If you want you can likely add another push and pull to each day if you want to keep the above routines.
It is low volume so you can stick with that if you want. If you want to add reps from 5-12ish for hypertrophy range that's fine.
On April 07 2012 11:08 eshlow wrote: jjhchsc2, unknownsam:
3x a week with 2 push, and 2 pull exercises is preferable (plus skill work like handstand, and L-sit) and maybe a leg or two exercise. So 5-6 total exercises + 1-2 skills is fine.
If you want you can likely add another push and pull to each day if you want to keep the above routines.
It is low volume so you can stick with that if you want. If you want to add reps from 5-12ish for hypertrophy range that's fine.
oh, so like for me- workout A pullups 3 sets handstands 3 sets +1 more pull exercise
workout B l-sit 3 sets dips 3 sets +1 more push exercise
mon-A tues- B wed- leg thurs-A fri-B sat- basketball sun -rest
or just workout A handstand pullups dips l-sits
A rest/leg? A rest/leg? A basketball rest
thanks for the reply! hopefully i get your book around june (bday) or least christmas. can i get your book while i am in australia?
Its more optimal to do all of this in one workout.... then do it 3x per week
3x a week with 2 push, and 2 pull exercises is preferable (plus skill work like handstand, and L-sit) and maybe a leg or two exercise. So 5-6 total exercises + 1-2 skills is fine.
3x a week = pullups 3 sets handstands 3 sets +1 more pull exercise l-sit 3 sets dips 3 sets +1 more push exercise + legs
Let yourself have some rest days... go do something fun
And yes, you can buy it though I don't know how long it takes to ship to australia or how much shipping costs. :x
3x a week with 2 push, and 2 pull exercises is preferable (plus skill work like handstand, and L-sit) and maybe a leg or two exercise. So 5-6 total exercises + 1-2 skills is fine.
3x a week = pullups 3 sets handstands 3 sets +1 more pull exercise l-sit 3 sets dips 3 sets +1 more push exercise + legs
Let yourself have some rest days... go do something fun
And yes, you can buy it though I don't know how long it takes to ship to australia or how much shipping costs. :x
wow that seems like a lot tbh not sure if i can do it ontop of bball. i will first try 4 or 5 exercises 3x week with bball what do you recommend for the extra pull and push exercise? because i have no idea..... something extra for shoulders preferably.
On April 07 2012 12:21 eshlow wrote: Its more optimal to do all of this in one workout.... then do it 3x per week
3x a week with 2 push, and 2 pull exercises is preferable (plus skill work like handstand, and L-sit) and maybe a leg or two exercise. So 5-6 total exercises + 1-2 skills is fine.
3x a week = pullups 3 sets handstands 3 sets +1 more pull exercise l-sit 3 sets dips 3 sets +1 more push exercise + legs
Let yourself have some rest days... go do something fun
And yes, you can buy it though I don't know how long it takes to ship to australia or how much shipping costs. :x
wow that seems like a lot tbh not sure if i can do it ontop of bball. i will first try 4 or 5 exercises 3x week with bball what do you recommend for the extra pull and push exercise? because i have no idea..... something extra for shoulders preferably.
@andy thanks for that!
It's not actually a lot because the handstand and L-sit work probably won't be significantly taxing.
If you don't want to do another exercise cut the extra push, and for the pull do some rowing variation like inverted rows or something
On April 08 2012 11:56 Seth_ wrote: I can't lift for 2 weeks (or maybe once a week at most), since there's no gym around. What bodyweight exercices can I do to keep up my strength?
I have no pull-up bars or large weights. I can do some push-ups and dips for upper body, but what can I do instead of squats, DL...
how do you feel about combining body weight training and regular dumbell training? so far i have incorporated dips, pull ups, and squats into my regimen at the gym, but im not sure how and if i could add more bodyweight training..
On April 09 2012 18:39 B.I.G. wrote: how do you feel about combining body weight training and regular dumbell training? so far i have incorporated dips, pull ups, and squats into my regimen at the gym, but im not sure how and if i could add more bodyweight training..
what are your goals? what is your full workout plan?
are there any skills you would like to learn like L-sit, handstand?
On April 09 2012 18:39 B.I.G. wrote: how do you feel about combining body weight training and regular dumbell training? so far i have incorporated dips, pull ups, and squats into my regimen at the gym, but im not sure how and if i could add more bodyweight training..
what are your goals? what is your full workout plan?
are there any skills you would like to learn like L-sit, handstand?
dips, pull ups, hand stand push up would be cool :p.. current regimen is working out four times a week, splitting it up in chest and triceps, shoulders and abs, biceps and back, legs and abs. however i recently picked up muay thai and some more functional strength in wrists and lower arms would be nice as well..
Hmm... I'm hesitant to give advice since I'm pretty clueless myself, but since eshlow's pc is apparently busted, I can at least post to show you that there are people in the bodyweight thread and your post has been read :D.
Will you be training three times a week like in SS? If so, for me personally that seems pretty low volume. Though you didn't post how many reps or sets you'll be doing, so I could be wrong. You say that you're planning this routine. Does that mean you haven't been training with this yet? I saw you had a routine proposition on page 5. What was your reason behind ditching that one and coming up with this one instead? Once you've done this for a while see how you feel, and if your recovery is fine I would suggest you do handstand work on every workout and possibly l-sit as well since eshlow recommends pairing handstand with l-sit/manna work.
On April 06 2012 21:44 eshlow wrote: Are you adding this to something? Or are you alternating these from day to day?
All of this is something you can do in a single routine fairly easily.
I do recommend pairing HS with L-sit and then you can add another push.
yeah i plan on alternating the workout (A & B) like in SS while doing it 3x/week . I ditched the previous routine because i felt like i was doing too much volume. though i admit the programming was done poorly as it was the typical case of too much too soon relative to my capabilities.
EDIT: so i just read the Routine Construction section in the link you gave. you state that you want all those exercises to be done 3x a week? to be honest, i don't think i'm capable of doing those exercises for the prescribed duration (i.e. 60 secs accumulated). would it be ok to start off at 20-30 secs instead?
Hmm... I'm hesitant to give advice since I'm pretty clueless myself, but since eshlow's pc is apparently busted, I can at least post to show you that there are people in the bodyweight thread and your post has been read :D.
Will you be training three times a week like in SS? If so, for me personally that seems pretty low volume. Though you didn't post how many reps or sets you'll be doing, so I could be wrong. You say that you're planning this routine. Does that mean you haven't been training with this yet? I saw you had a routine proposition on page 5. What was your reason behind ditching that one and coming up with this one instead? Once you've done this for a while see how you feel, and if your recovery is fine I would suggest you do handstand work on every workout and possibly l-sit as well since eshlow recommends pairing handstand with l-sit/manna work.
yeah i plan on alternating the workout (A & B) like in SS while doing it 3x/week . I ditched the previous routine because i felt like i was doing too much volume. though i admit the programming was done poorly as it was the typical case of too much too soon relative to my capabilities.
EDIT: so i just read the Routine Construction section in the link you gave. you state that you want all those exercises to be done 3x a week? to be honest, i don't think i'm capable of doing those exercises for the prescribed duration (i.e. 60 secs accumulated). would it be ok to start off at 20-30 secs instead?
Yes that would be done three times per week. Full body 3x week for beginners is most of the time optimal, just like SS or SL with barbell training. The 60s apparently is more of a traditional guideline. If you're working at higher intensities you don't need that much total time. The volume needed would depend on your maximal hold time and of course might vary between different exercises. The routine in the link is just a sample. You could make it a bit less taxing by, for example, replacing the planche with some pushup variation and the FL with pullups/chins and it would then, I think(?), have everything you had in your split.
Hmm... I'm hesitant to give advice since I'm pretty clueless myself, but since eshlow's pc is apparently busted, I can at least post to show you that there are people in the bodyweight thread and your post has been read :D.
Will you be training three times a week like in SS? If so, for me personally that seems pretty low volume. Though you didn't post how many reps or sets you'll be doing, so I could be wrong. You say that you're planning this routine. Does that mean you haven't been training with this yet? I saw you had a routine proposition on page 5. What was your reason behind ditching that one and coming up with this one instead? Once you've done this for a while see how you feel, and if your recovery is fine I would suggest you do handstand work on every workout and possibly l-sit as well since eshlow recommends pairing handstand with l-sit/manna work.
On April 06 2012 21:44 eshlow wrote: Are you adding this to something? Or are you alternating these from day to day?
All of this is something you can do in a single routine fairly easily.
I do recommend pairing HS with L-sit and then you can add another push.
yeah i plan on alternating the workout (A & B) like in SS while doing it 3x/week . I ditched the previous routine because i felt like i was doing too much volume. though i admit the programming was done poorly as it was the typical case of too much too soon relative to my capabilities.
EDIT: so i just read the Routine Construction section in the link you gave. you state that you want all those exercises to be done 3x a week? to be honest, i don't think i'm capable of doing those exercises for the prescribed duration (i.e. 60 secs accumulated). would it be ok to start off at 20-30 secs instead?
Yes that would be done three times per week. Full body 3x week for beginners is most of the time optimal, just like SS or SL with barbell training. The 60s apparently is more of a traditional guideline. If you're working at higher intensities you don't need that much total time. The volume needed would depend on your maximal hold time and of course might vary between different exercises. The routine in the link is just a sample. You could make it a bit less taxing by, for example, replacing the planche with some pushup variation and the FL with pullups/chins and it would then, I think(?), have everything you had in your split.
that makes sense. the starting progressions alone (i.e. tuck back lever/high tuck L-sit etc) are already very intense for me as i currently can't hold those positions for more than 10 secs.
so the new routine (3x a week - in no particular order) would look like this?
Handstand work - 3 sets of ~10-20secs L-sit work - 3 sets of ~5-10 secs pull ups - 3 sets dips - 3 sets back lever - 3 sets of ~5-10 secs push ups - 3 sets
now with the questions regarding the routine:
1. do these exercises need to be done in a certain order? my gut tells me i should avoid doing consecutive push/pull exercises so as not to tax myself too much. am i correct in my assumption?
2. how does one progress with the static holds? is it as simple as increasing the duration of the hold per set? how long should i be able to hold a particular progression before i can move on to the next?
3. i'm sure i can manage the 2 pulling exercises, but i'm worried with the pushing exercises considering the skill work (i.e. handstand/L-sit) is currently quite tiresome. thus i don't feel too confident i'll be able to put in quality work for the dips or push ups depending on which one i do last. i was thinking of doing L-sit work every other day OR alternating between push ups and dips instead.
5. say i went ahead with the 2 pushing exercises. to improve on these i would think you'd need to add reps initially and then move on to weighted dips etc. so say i started with 3x3 on both dips and push ups (9 total reps for each) and i were to add a rep to the total number of reps each workout. in 4 weeks that would be 3x6 for both pushing exercises. wouldn't that be too much volume (eventually) for my current level of fitness?
for reference (just in case): goals: back lever/handstand/L-sit height: 5'5 weight: 136lbs (62kg) chin ups bw - 8 (chest to bar) push ups bw - haven't tried dips bw - 10
1. Prioritize what you want to improve the most first... though typically more skill based balance work goes first like handstands etc
2. Increasing duration. I typically recommend holds of 60-70% of your max hold done for 3-6ish sets
3. That's fine to start with less exercises
4. No, you will be surprised how fast you progress
All these questions and more are answered more thoroughly in the book, plus a nice isometric, and eccentric chart table to help you figure out hold times and sets
On May 11 2012 23:20 eshlow wrote: Finally getting my butt back into gear with some solid training.
What kind of training do you actually do? Only bodyweighttraining or do you squat/dl for legs?
Focus on sprinting and parkour type stuff, DL when I have access to weights, otherwise pistos (squat/dead obviously better than bodyweight leg strength work).
Upper body is always mostly bodyweight stuff, with a focus on gymnastics and right now rock climbing.
On May 11 2012 23:20 eshlow wrote: Finally getting my butt back into gear with some solid training.
What kind of training do you actually do? Only bodyweighttraining or do you squat/dl for legs?
Focus on sprinting and parkour type stuff, DL when I have access to weights, otherwise pistos (squat/dead obviously better than bodyweight leg strength work).
Upper body is always mostly bodyweight stuff, with a focus on gymnastics and right now rock climbing.
Hey Eschlow, maybe you can help me.
The thing I'm having a hard time with is these:
Wall mantles/climb ups
I want a smooth fast climb up, but when I try it I just dont have enough pop to get over my hands correctly. I can do the skill but I the middle part is grinding and slow, because I feel like I just dont get high enough.
The thing is I feel like I should be able to do this...I can rep muscle ups on a bar no problem and very fast and smooth, I have good pulling power, I can do weighted pullups with palm out with 120+lbs of extra weight @170lbs bodyweight. But I just dont have the power to do what he does in that vid...at all.
What kind of a progression or exercises would you recommend? Since I can sort of do the them horrible grindingly, should I just try to rep them as much as possible? More muscle ups? Front lever stuff? Or am I probably just missing something techniquewise and should be able to do them?
Do you have a video I can more clearly see what part you're struggling with and if you're using correct movements with your legs/arms/head etc?
You're clearly strong enough to do it well, so it's likely a technique issue with your legs or your upper body not getting the timing and direction of what you're supposed to do correctly
Lost access to gym. It went out of business. (and they were pissed about cleaning... even though they had bumper plates) I'm now lifting enough I can no longer using my terrible setup at home. So bodyweight it is (btw, up to deadlifting almost 2x bodyweight, and squat 1.5x. My presses still suck. I might still try to deadlift at home, because I don't need no fancy equipment, (squat rack) just the barbell which I do have. Should I continue deadlifting w/ bodyweight?
I need something that won't too much isometric pressure on the neck, with a focus on the core/back. (Not neglecting legs though, just not the focus per se) Which progressions should I be looking at?
I'll regain access to a gym and will resume SS when I go back to college. However, I have a surgery in a month, and will have super atrophy over the 12 weeks of restrictions I have after, so I'd like to build up as much upper body strength as possible.
If you can continue to deadlift and squat you should definitely do that.
As far as core/back what type of stuff have you been looking at?
Any of the standard pullups/dips work well.... I don't know how well you can do with say back lever, front lever, planche, or any of those... same with pushup/row variations and handstand pushups. Do you have access to rings or a pullup bar or what?
On May 14 2012 01:16 eshlow wrote: If you can continue to deadlift and squat you should definitely do that.
As far as core/back what type of stuff have you been looking at?
Any of the standard pullups/dips work well.... I don't know how well you can do with say back lever, front lever, planche, or any of those... same with pushup/row variations and handstand pushups. Do you have access to rings or a pullup bar or what?
No rings, but yes to pullup bar.
I can't squat, do not have access to equipment. Could squat, but would be capped at 110 pounds. I can deadlift, will continue.
Mostly I need to keep severe pressure off of this area (C6-T9).... until it gets reinforced.
Why don't you know how well I could do? Just strength, or back stuff?
So, this is some more content directly from Overcoming Gravity, which is helpful in structuring isometrics such as the planche, back lever, front lever, cross, as well as some of the skill movements like handstand, L-sit, etc. Likewise, another chart was constructed for eccentrics which can be useful to work up to strength movements like one arm chinups or even just pullups or dips if you are just starting out.
I figured it would be good to release this because structuring loading parameters is difficult for most people to do, especially in regard to these two different types of exercises. This article serves to help answer the questions in regards to building strength and hypertrophy:
~ How long do the sets need to be?
~ Why are they that length?
~ What overall volume (sets x holds) is good for these types of exercises
On January 05 2012 15:12 Jitsu wrote: @Crawler, how do you like Paleo? Any links you can hook me up with in regards to going full Paleo? Really want to experiment with it.
On May 24 2012 21:18 GuiltyJerk wrote: Got Eshlow's book the other day :D can't put it down gonna start an integrated BB and bodyweight program once I finish it
Let me know if you want a critique or have any questions
So I am incorporating body weight training into my 5/3/1. I was wondering if someone could take a look at it and make sure its okay. I read Eshlow's post on incorporating body weight and barbell training, but I can't afford the book yet so I had to kind of piece things together.
Day 3 Bench Press - 5/3/1 L Seat Progression Calves
Day 4 Squat - 5/3/1 Overhead Press 5 x 10 at 50 lbs Rollout/Plank
Hopefully that is good. I really need to increase my arm strength/stability [specifically triceps], so I plan on trying to do that. Might swap out OHP on squat day for close grip bench. Dips put a ton of strain on my shoulder/trap area.
On June 02 2012 09:08 Catch wrote: So I am incorporating body weight training into my 5/3/1. I was wondering if someone could take a look at it and make sure its okay. I read Eshlow's post on incorporating body weight and barbell training, but I can't afford the book yet so I had to kind of piece things together.
Day 3 Bench Press - 5/3/1 L Seat Progression Calves
Day 4 Squat - 5/3/1 Overhead Press 5 x 10 at 50 lbs Rollout/Plank
Hopefully that is good. I really need to increase my arm strength/stability [specifically triceps], so I plan on trying to do that. Might swap out OHP on squat day for close grip bench. Dips put a ton of strain on my shoulder/trap area.
Seems OK though it depends on what your goals are and what version of 5/3/1 you are doing...
On June 02 2012 09:08 Catch wrote: So I am incorporating body weight training into my 5/3/1. I was wondering if someone could take a look at it and make sure its okay. I read Eshlow's post on incorporating body weight and barbell training, but I can't afford the book yet so I had to kind of piece things together.
Day 3 Bench Press - 5/3/1 L Seat Progression Calves
Day 4 Squat - 5/3/1 Overhead Press 5 x 10 at 50 lbs Rollout/Plank
Hopefully that is good. I really need to increase my arm strength/stability [specifically triceps], so I plan on trying to do that. Might swap out OHP on squat day for close grip bench. Dips put a ton of strain on my shoulder/trap area.
Seems OK though it depends on what your goals are and what version of 5/3/1 you are doing...
Mostly boring but big without the 5x10 bench and squat. Messes with my shoulders too much, so i just cut it back to deadlift and squat.
I have three goals (in order): 1. Get a monster deadlift 2. Strengthen my arms. 3. Bodyweight OHP by the end of the year.
Concerning #2, they are ridiculously weak; I tried to do a one arm push up the other day and they shook so much I couldn't even do one. My triceps are probably really weak as well. I also have been working on my wrist flexibility. I use the stretches and stuff outlined in the flexibility friday thing on r/bodyweightfitness. I got into a push up position to do the planche leans, and my arms shook like crazy again.
...tl;dr my arms suck and I want to get them stronger.
On June 04 2012 00:12 Chunhyang wrote: May I add to this thread and say that trying to get a manna is probably the hardest physical thing I've tried to do in my life. @_@
On June 02 2012 09:08 Catch wrote: So I am incorporating body weight training into my 5/3/1. I was wondering if someone could take a look at it and make sure its okay. I read Eshlow's post on incorporating body weight and barbell training, but I can't afford the book yet so I had to kind of piece things together.
Day 3 Bench Press - 5/3/1 L Seat Progression Calves
Day 4 Squat - 5/3/1 Overhead Press 5 x 10 at 50 lbs Rollout/Plank
Hopefully that is good. I really need to increase my arm strength/stability [specifically triceps], so I plan on trying to do that. Might swap out OHP on squat day for close grip bench. Dips put a ton of strain on my shoulder/trap area.
Seems OK though it depends on what your goals are and what version of 5/3/1 you are doing...
Mostly boring but big without the 5x10 bench and squat. Messes with my shoulders too much, so i just cut it back to deadlift and squat.
I have three goals (in order): 1. Get a monster deadlift 2. Strengthen my arms. 3. Bodyweight OHP by the end of the year.
Concerning #2, they are ridiculously weak; I tried to do a one arm push up the other day and they shook so much I couldn't even do one. My triceps are probably really weak as well. I also have been working on my wrist flexibility. I use the stretches and stuff outlined in the flexibility friday thing on r/bodyweightfitness. I got into a push up position to do the planche leans, and my arms shook like crazy again.
...tl;dr my arms suck and I want to get them stronger.
Seems alright then.. you're pressing (2x OHP, 1x bench) 3x a week so that's good. Depending on where you're at you might be able to add a bit more volume but see how it turns out
Sounds good, thanks. I'm going through some tendinitis, plus I'll be starting to run for a tough mudder, and possibly adding some (very light) KB work on my off days, so I don't want to add too much volume too fast.
On June 07 2012 02:40 Catch wrote: Sounds good, thanks. I'm going through some tendinitis, plus I'll be starting to run for a tough mudder, and possibly adding some (very light) KB work on my off days, so I don't want to add too much volume too fast.
Take care of your tendonitis so it doesn't get worse...
I am. I just plan on doing the main lifts (one triple and one single per lift) starting my next session, and possibly the week after that. I may add in one set of my current accessories at light weight (ex: bodyweight only chin, ect). I'm hoping between this and the massaging/RICE, I should be okay three weeks from now.
I blame on this on cutting weight and not taking enough rest time though. I skipped part of my deload on 5/3/1, which I think was a big mistake. (Edit) Along with adding in too much volume and not keeping my elbows straight enough for some of my stretches (like planche leans for my wrist).
Body-weight training seems really cool to me, so I've finally decided to switch over from regular weightlifting to body-weight training. I tried looking through the thread to find a BW training program and really couldn't find anything, usually people said it depends on your goals, so I was hoping someone would be able to help me build one, based on my goals.
My progress has left me with a BW of 165lb or 75kg. Lifts wise:
275lb x 6 squat 205lb x 6 bench 355lb x 6 deadlift 25-30 Dips 10-12 Wide Grip Pull-ups 4 Handstand Push-ups (Just tried now, finished 3 sets of 4)
My ultimate goal is for my body to look like this guy:
I am only 18, I am trying to achieve a mass of about 175lb, being lean, right now I am 165lb with 10-12% BF. For strength there is nothing really specific, I want to learn to do a planche eventually, and all those cool things, but I'm not putting a priority on it. My main objective is to get large off of this, I'm not going with the intent of becoming 220lb of muscle and a thin layer of fat Squatting 500lb, but I'm not trying to be the 62kg guy who can do 30 pull-ups because he's so light. I want a weight of 80kg~, pretty toned down, with balanced strength between my body.
The tools I want to use to achieve this is Squat + Deadlift + any and all BW exercises. I have a gym I can go to, and I am currently ordering rings + pull-up bar for my house, ideally I would like to do all but the Squat and Dead-lift inside of my house. Money isn't really a concern, so if any other equipment is needed, let me know.
I'm just really overwhelmed with all this, and I hope someone can write me a somewhat detailed program to follow to start-off that aligns with my goals.
Unfortunately it's hard to give you a good program unless you can set some more specific goals. Right now all I could say is focus on isometrics or reps in hypertrophy range for concentrics if you're trying to gain mass. I doubt anyone can achieve planche without putting it as a high priority so why not set it as one of your goals. http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/05/setting-and-achieving-goals/3/ If you checked this from the OP maybe you can find some more skills you'd want to learn and then build your program around them. Also the first thing you should do is order eshlow's book. It'll help immensly in making bw training more approachable.
Some questions: Are Pull-Ups/Chin-Ups easier on a stiff bar or on a, well, not so stiff bar (need more english skills). Just wondering right now, since I am training on two very different bars right now (but with different grips, so I cannot really compare).
A long term goal of mine is to do L-Seats on my fingertips. Which is, given my weight (113kg right now) quiet a challenge. A couple of days back I was able to lift myself from the ground (in the tucked-seat position) for the first time, with my palms on the ground. Couldn't do this with 120kg bw, so that is progress. Anyway, I read on beastskills.com that I should train Push-Ups on my fingertips to increase finger strength, and found out that I couldn't do a single one. Now I am doing those push-ups on my knees to build strength. Long story short, is there something else I can do to increase finger strength.
Since a couple of weeks I am finally able to do Hanging leg raises, in the way that I get my feet up towards the bar. However, I need some swinging and my legs are in no way straight. Does this have good carryover to finally being able to do hanging leg raises from a dead hang and with straight legs? Or would I be better of training from a dead hang and try to increase range of motion gradually. And also strickt reps with tucked legs (which would also help with L-Seats I assume)?
Finally, my gymnastic goals are basically the L-Seat, Handstand, Front Lever and Back Lever. And I wanna be able to climb up a robe eventually. I am 181cm (5'11) and basically I am planing to get below 100kg and then stay at that weight (the opposite of FiwiFaki basically ). Obviously body weight plays a large role in gymnastic performance. Is it realistic for me to achieve those movements at that kind of bodyweight or would I most likely have to cut more weight. Time is not really a concern, I don't care if it takes me until 2014 to achieve the harder movements (I guess Front Lever is the hardest?).
Thank you for your help in advance
edit: I also want to be able to do Muslce-Ups finally. Though I am doing a lot of (weighted) Dips and Chin-Ups/Pull-Ups already, (with focus on adding weight and not reps) which I assume will eventually get me there.
Since a couple of weeks I am finally able to do Hanging leg raises, in the way that I get my feet up towards the bar. However, I need some swinging and my legs are in no way straight. Does this have good carryover to finally being able to do hanging leg raises from a dead hang and with straight legs? Or would I be better of training from a dead hang and try to increase range of motion gradually. And also strickt reps with tucked legs (which would also help with L-Seats I assume)?
Leg raises can be trained through eccentrics (negatives, like how you jump to a pullup then slowly lower) by tucking your legs into your chest, leaning back and pushing your legs out straight up then lowering as slowly as possible through the full range of motion
On June 12 2012 15:17 FiWiFaKi wrote: Body-weight training seems really cool to me, so I've finally decided to switch over from regular weightlifting to body-weight training. I tried looking through the thread to find a BW training program and really couldn't find anything, usually people said it depends on your goals, so I was hoping someone would be able to help me build one, based on my goals.
My progress has left me with a BW of 165lb or 75kg. Lifts wise:
275lb x 6 squat 205lb x 6 bench 355lb x 6 deadlift 25-30 Dips 10-12 Wide Grip Pull-ups 4 Handstand Push-ups (Just tried now, finished 3 sets of 4)
My ultimate goal is for my body to look like this guy:
I am only 18, I am trying to achieve a mass of about 175lb, being lean, right now I am 165lb with 10-12% BF. For strength there is nothing really specific, I want to learn to do a planche eventually, and all those cool things, but I'm not putting a priority on it. My main objective is to get large off of this, I'm not going with the intent of becoming 220lb of muscle and a thin layer of fat Squatting 500lb, but I'm not trying to be the 62kg guy who can do 30 pull-ups because he's so light. I want a weight of 80kg~, pretty toned down, with balanced strength between my body.
The tools I want to use to achieve this is Squat + Deadlift + any and all BW exercises. I have a gym I can go to, and I am currently ordering rings + pull-up bar for my house, ideally I would like to do all but the Squat and Dead-lift inside of my house. Money isn't really a concern, so if any other equipment is needed, let me know.
I'm just really overwhelmed with all this, and I hope someone can write me a somewhat detailed program to follow to start-off that aligns with my goals.
On June 12 2012 19:09 Malinor wrote: Some questions: Are Pull-Ups/Chin-Ups easier on a stiff bar or on a, well, not so stiff bar (need more english skills). Just wondering right now, since I am training on two very different bars right now (but with different grips, so I cannot really compare).
A long term goal of mine is to do L-Seats on my fingertips. Which is, given my weight (113kg right now) quiet a challenge. A couple of days back I was able to lift myself from the ground (in the tucked-seat position) for the first time, with my palms on the ground. Couldn't do this with 120kg bw, so that is progress. Anyway, I read on beastskills.com that I should train Push-Ups on my fingertips to increase finger strength, and found out that I couldn't do a single one. Now I am doing those push-ups on my knees to build strength. Long story short, is there something else I can do to increase finger strength.
Since a couple of weeks I am finally able to do Hanging leg raises, in the way that I get my feet up towards the bar. However, I need some swinging and my legs are in no way straight. Does this have good carryover to finally being able to do hanging leg raises from a dead hang and with straight legs? Or would I be better of training from a dead hang and try to increase range of motion gradually. And also strickt reps with tucked legs (which would also help with L-Seats I assume)?
Finally, my gymnastic goals are basically the L-Seat, Handstand, Front Lever and Back Lever. And I wanna be able to climb up a robe eventually. I am 181cm (5'11) and basically I am planing to get below 100kg and then stay at that weight (the opposite of FiwiFaki basically ). Obviously body weight plays a large role in gymnastic performance. Is it realistic for me to achieve those movements at that kind of bodyweight or would I most likely have to cut more weight. Time is not really a concern, I don't care if it takes me until 2014 to achieve the harder movements (I guess Front Lever is the hardest?).
Thank you for your help in advance
edit: I also want to be able to do Muslce-Ups finally. Though I am doing a lot of (weighted) Dips and Chin-Ups/Pull-Ups already, (with focus on adding weight and not reps) which I assume will eventually get me there.
Pullups/chinups .... Depends... what you practice at is the easiest for the most part. With a more flexible bar you can sometimes time it correctly to get a bounce from it so it can make it easier though
Finger strength you probably also want to be doing grip work and some extension work for the fingers.
Yes, its fine to kip. What I would suggest is you kip up, but then do a slow eccentric down.
Yes, those movements are achievable for your height and weight although it may take quite a long time. It would be helpful to drop more weight though obviously. I'm coaching at 90-100kg guy who has gotten straight arm press handstands, full back lever, close to full front lever, working on one arm handstand, etc. So things are doable when you're heavy but it takes a while to develop that kind of strength
Hi guys. I was climbing rope in the morning, and now my biceps are super sore. Is it generally acceptable to take some painkiller after you feel sore, or should I just tough it out?
On June 13 2012 11:01 fatfail wrote: Hi guys. I was climbing rope in the morning, and now my biceps are super sore. Is it generally acceptable to take some painkiller after you feel sore, or should I just tough it out?
Meh, anti-inflams might help, but generally speaking soreness is soreness.
Don't worry it goes away after you get used to exercise
I am totally falling in love with bodyweight training. Though I can still do so little, with every kilogram of bw I lose, I can do more. Today I managed my first real L-Seat from parallettes of the floor. Did 5 sets and averaged probably 5 seconds each Gonna work this up to like 20-30 seconds, and by the time I can do that I probably have enough strength to do them directly from the floor. Also working on fingertips and one-handed push-ups. I can do several one-handed by now, but with atrocious form. For fingertip push-ups, I could not do a single one 3 weeks ago, but just from training them from the knees (felt like a girl) but now I can do two without hurting my fingers. I guess I will progress on them rather quickly. My handstand work does not progress very well though, I just do them to infrequently. That has to change. This stuff is so much fun for me, considering that 1 1/2 years ago, rolling over in my bad was a challenging task for me.
Probably gonna buy your book when I finally have some money to spare (I need a new job -.-).
I finally figured out my climb-ups/mantles, took a bit of practice and the realization that i needed to turn my hands inward for the start of the dipping motion, which really helps.
Now I can just pop over walls, feels great and not too hard at all.
On June 26 2012 21:38 Malinor wrote: I am totally falling in love with bodyweight training. Though I can still do so little, with every kilogram of bw I lose, I can do more. Today I managed my first real L-Seat from parallettes of the floor. Did 5 sets and averaged probably 5 seconds each Gonna work this up to like 20-30 seconds, and by the time I can do that I probably have enough strength to do them directly from the floor. Also working on fingertips and one-handed push-ups. I can do several one-handed by now, but with atrocious form. For fingertip push-ups, I could not do a single one 3 weeks ago, but just from training them from the knees (felt like a girl) but now I can do two without hurting my fingers. I guess I will progress on them rather quickly. My handstand work does not progress very well though, I just do them to infrequently. That has to change. This stuff is so much fun for me, considering that 1 1/2 years ago, rolling over in my bad was a challenging task for me.
Probably gonna buy your book when I finally have some money to spare (I need a new job -.-).
Yeah, the book definitely covers this type of stuff. Any progress at your weight is pretty impressive.
On June 28 2012 11:13 sob3k wrote: I finally figured out my climb-ups/mantles, took a bit of practice and the realization that i needed to turn my hands inward for the start of the dipping motion, which really helps.
Now I can just pop over walls, feels great and not too hard at all.
Yup, you really gotta switch your hands, just like you have to do with muscle ups.
On June 28 2012 14:52 honed wrote: so this is kinda like gymnastics conditioning? seems very similar
I guess so. There's lots of variations of bodyweight work you can do.
But you gotta keep using harder progressions if you are interested in strength and/or hypertrophy.
Lots of pushups and whatnot are ok for endurance but not geared towards muscle or hypertrophy.
Hey folks, first time poster here although i've been working on my general fitness for a year now. I've been doing a reasonable amount of cycling and some weight training. Not going to pretend i'm some sort of superman but i've been sticking with it. (I'd lived an unfit sedimentry lifestyle till then)
Given the limited amount of time I have these days I wanted to start doing some more compound exercises, so I invested in a pullup bar which arrived on Friday.
Of course like all beginners I sucked at it, I can currently do 2 decent form chinups and only 1 decent form pullup. I did a few sets of each and left it for a day to recover.
The problem I now have is that I've been having dull aches and twinges in my wrists since I did it, Is this something I should be worried about? Its not like im in any amazing amount of pain, but i've left the pullup bar alone since I didnt want to make any potential injury worse. Just concerned that it hasnt gone away after 4 days.
Apologises if this should have gone in the injury thread, but as I said its not like I'm in any sort of real pain. It seemed a bit more relevent to ask here since I'm intending to use bodyweight training more.
In my experience it's normal to get strange pains doing bodyweight movements when you just start out, dips and ring work can be quite painful if you're new, they simply stress the muscles/ligaments in ways inactive people rarely ever do. Just ease into it, and take it slow - the discomfort should gradually reduce every week. If the pain is intense or it doesn't reduce after a couple of weeks it maybe a mobility or form issue that needs addressing. Also, don't ever be afraid to do an easier version of an exercise, pain is in no way a pre requisite for progress.
If you have some dumbells or light weights or bands I would suggest doing some wrist strengthening exercises, for your flexors and especially for your extensors which are typically neglected and weak. I would also suggest you do some general flexibility and mobility work for the wrists, if your range of motion isn't that great.
Been working on flat bench dumbells since January. Started off being able to do 40lbs securely then slowly progressed from there.
Just came back from the gym and I did a set of 7reps 70lbs. I did it really cleanly and I felt like I coulda pushed another set with 75lbs. I stopped myself there though since Im still holding a cold of 3 weeks T_T
Im pretty happy with my progress and hopefully at the end of the year I can push up to 85 maybe 95, well see.
I stopped taking Isopure about 2 months ago, so Im doing all this by a strict diet. Its kinda hard but I wanna see how far I can get without supplements. Only thing I take as a preworkout would be coconut water, I stopped eating bananas since it has so much sugar.
hey, i'm stuck with no access to a gym for another month and a half and i was wondering if you guys had any advice i'm just trying to gain weight (particularly upper body); strength would be a nice side effect but not something i'm really aiming for i know weight gain is mostly diet but i just wanna make sure i'm not doing anything dumb or super inefficient
i started about a week ago and atm i'm doing: pushups (swap between normal/wide/staggered/airplanes every set) pistol squats isometric curls (i think that's what they're called?) repeat*2 planche/Lsit *3
the first time i did Lsits my stomach hurt for 2 days and eating sucked lol
Hi all, I'm brand new to working out in general (typical story of inactive gamer looking to build strength), and was directed here by the incredibly kind guys in this subforum after asking for a more effective bodyweight workout due to being unable to attend a gym for the time being.
I've been reading eshlow's awesome article The Fundamentals of Bodyweight Strength Training, and have a few incredibly simple and probably obvious questions that I'm hoping someone can help me with.
1. It seems that many bodyweight routines require equipment like rings and bars; if I were to follow an effective bodyweight routine entirely at home, what workout tools would I need (hopefully not too much)? Dips and back/front lever in particular seem to require specific things.
2. I'm still a bit confused on how to split up exercises. I know that greater intensity for fewer reps is better for strength development, so that's my goal. But for example, when in Fundamentals of Bodyweight Strength Training it says 60 seconds of planche, how do I split that up into reps and sets? I'd assume i'd want to start at an easier form like tuck planche; would it be something like 6 sets, 10 seconds each? What about dips, where it doesn't specify a time? I imagine that the tables below in the article answer my questions, but I'm still having a bit of trouble clearly understanding.
Basically I need someone to hold my hand just for a little bit so I can get an idea of how to set it up myself, if that's okay. That's all the dumb questions I have for now. Thanks ahead of time!
Disclaimer: Advice from a novice. Feel free to ignore and wait for eshlow.
On July 21 2012 00:13 Dead9 wrote: hey, i'm stuck with no access to a gym for another month and a half and i was wondering if you guys had any advice i'm just trying to gain weight (particularly upper body); strength would be a nice side effect but not something i'm really aiming for i know weight gain is mostly diet but i just wanna make sure i'm not doing anything dumb or super inefficient
i started about a week ago and atm i'm doing: pushups (swap between normal/wide/staggered/airplanes every set) pistol squats isometric curls (i think that's what they're called?) repeat*2 planche/Lsit *3
the first time i did Lsits my stomach hurt for 2 days and eating sucked lol
I think you should at least add some pulling stuff. Pullups/chinups and rowing for example. Depends on your available equipment though. It's hard to say if your current routine is effective without knowing your rep and set numbers. I'm guessing from the number of variations that pushups aren't too challenging and you might be past optimal hypertrophy ranges.
On July 21 2012 10:00 Soulfire wrote: Hi all, I'm brand new to working out in general (typical story of inactive gamer looking to build strength), and was directed here by the incredibly kind guys in this subforum after asking for a more effective bodyweight workout due to being unable to attend a gym for the time being.
I've been reading eshlow's awesome article The Fundamentals of Bodyweight Strength Training, and have a few incredibly simple and probably obvious questions that I'm hoping someone can help me with.
1. It seems that many bodyweight routines require equipment like rings and bars; if I were to follow an effective bodyweight routine entirely at home, what workout tools would I need (hopefully not too much)? Dips and back/front lever in particular seem to require specific things.
2. I'm still a bit confused on how to split up exercises. I know that greater intensity for fewer reps is better for strength development, so that's my goal. But for example, when in Fundamentals of Bodyweight Strength Training it says 60 seconds of planche, how do I split that up into reps and sets? I'd assume i'd want to start at an easier form like tuck planche; would it be something like 6 sets, 10 seconds each? What about dips, where it doesn't specify a time? I imagine that the tables below in the article answer my questions, but I'm still having a bit of trouble clearly understanding.
Basically I need someone to hold my hand just for a little bit so I can get an idea of how to set it up myself, if that's okay. That's all the dumb questions I have for now. Thanks ahead of time!
1. Yes, if you want to be able to do anything sensible you're most likely going to need at least a pullup bar or rings. I personally just have rings hanging from the ceiling as I don't trust doorway pullup bars. You can also take the rings outside to a tree or a playground if you can't set them up at home.
2. 60s is a general guideline that has for some reason stuck in the community. Your optimal total hold times and number of sets will depend on your maximal hold time. You don't need to gather 60s total time if you're working at high enough intensities. And also if you really want to prioritize some exercise you can put more volume in that but then others will suffer. Concentrics will work similarly. At the simplest you can do 3-4 sets per exercise and add reps to sets until you reach a point where you can progress to a harder variation. I know this stuff is confusing at first but once you start and see progress you realize that consistency with training beats overanalyzing rep schemes.
Once you've come up with a routine you can post it here if you're not sure if it's good.
Again I must recommend you buy overcoming gravity as it will make bw training a lot easier to understand.
i do each set until i'm really tired, which is like 25~50 depending on what i'm doing (airplanes are impossible) unfortunately all i have is the ground and a bed and a chair i don't know any pulling exercises i can do with that, i'm using isometric curls as a replacement but it doesn't feel very satisfying
On July 21 2012 00:13 Dead9 wrote: hey, i'm stuck with no access to a gym for another month and a half and i was wondering if you guys had any advice i'm just trying to gain weight (particularly upper body); strength would be a nice side effect but not something i'm really aiming for i know weight gain is mostly diet but i just wanna make sure i'm not doing anything dumb or super inefficient
i started about a week ago and atm i'm doing: pushups (swap between normal/wide/staggered/airplanes every set) pistol squats isometric curls (i think that's what they're called?) repeat*2 planche/Lsit *3
the first time i did Lsits my stomach hurt for 2 days and eating sucked lol
On July 21 2012 23:50 Dead9 wrote: i do each set until i'm really tired, which is like 25~50 depending on what i'm doing (airplanes are impossible) unfortunately all i have is the ground and a bed and a chair i don't know any pulling exercises i can do with that, i'm using isometric curls as a replacement but it doesn't feel very satisfying
See this article from the OP about building a good routine
On July 21 2012 10:00 Soulfire wrote: Hi all, I'm brand new to working out in general (typical story of inactive gamer looking to build strength), and was directed here by the incredibly kind guys in this subforum after asking for a more effective bodyweight workout due to being unable to attend a gym for the time being.
I've been reading eshlow's awesome article The Fundamentals of Bodyweight Strength Training, and have a few incredibly simple and probably obvious questions that I'm hoping someone can help me with.
1. It seems that many bodyweight routines require equipment like rings and bars; if I were to follow an effective bodyweight routine entirely at home, what workout tools would I need (hopefully not too much)? Dips and back/front lever in particular seem to require specific things.
2. I'm still a bit confused on how to split up exercises. I know that greater intensity for fewer reps is better for strength development, so that's my goal. But for example, when in Fundamentals of Bodyweight Strength Training it says 60 seconds of planche, how do I split that up into reps and sets? I'd assume i'd want to start at an easier form like tuck planche; would it be something like 6 sets, 10 seconds each? What about dips, where it doesn't specify a time? I imagine that the tables below in the article answer my questions, but I'm still having a bit of trouble clearly understanding.
Basically I need someone to hold my hand just for a little bit so I can get an idea of how to set it up myself, if that's okay. That's all the dumb questions I have for now. Thanks ahead of time!
1. Rings, if you have a place to hang them, you can pretty much do everything... dips, back and front lever can all do from rings. Bar you can do bar dips and back and front lever but less options overall.
If you need to use a counter top (corner is preferably but straight works) or chairs or table and chairs, or whatever you can do that.
Same thing with chairs/tables with inverted rows and many other things. Creativity is good.
2. The prilepin tables later on tell you how to split up hold times. So if you max hold time is say 20 seconds, you'd want to do approximately 13-14s holds for about 4-5 sets.
This article explains them more in depth (and is linked)
if you're aiming for strength aim for tough exercise progressions in about 3-8ish rep range, if you're aiming for hypertrophy about 5-12 reps, and both about 5-8 reps. This is also stated in the article......
Thus for bar dips you'd want a sufficiently hard progression in that 5-12 if you're going for hypertrophy..
On July 21 2012 00:13 Dead9 wrote: hey, i'm stuck with no access to a gym for another month and a half and i was wondering if you guys had any advice i'm just trying to gain weight (particularly upper body); strength would be a nice side effect but not something i'm really aiming for i know weight gain is mostly diet but i just wanna make sure i'm not doing anything dumb or super inefficient
i started about a week ago and atm i'm doing: pushups (swap between normal/wide/staggered/airplanes every set) pistol squats isometric curls (i think that's what they're called?) repeat*2 planche/Lsit *3
the first time i did Lsits my stomach hurt for 2 days and eating sucked lol
On July 21 2012 23:50 Dead9 wrote: i do each set until i'm really tired, which is like 25~50 depending on what i'm doing (airplanes are impossible) unfortunately all i have is the ground and a bed and a chair i don't know any pulling exercises i can do with that, i'm using isometric curls as a replacement but it doesn't feel very satisfying
See this article from the OP about building a good routine
Tough exercises in the 5-12 rep range for hypertrophy... standard 1-3 minutes rest between sets
Hang yourself under a chair(s) or table for inverted rows
Go outside to find a tree branch for pullups or stair well or door if it can support you.
Lots of options.. be creative
now i feel dumb for not reading through that properly lol
edit: okay i found somewhere to do pullups, i'm worried it might break (wooden overhang thing) but it seems to be holding up for now does something like below sound okay? wall handstand (working toward wall handstand pushups?) L sit (working toward manna) planche progression staggered pushups (working toward one arm pushups) pullups one leg squats (working toward one leg pistol squats)
as a side note handstands is the scariest thing i've done in a long time, i've looked up how to roll out of them backwards but all i have is a wooden floor and i'm terrified lol
On July 21 2012 00:13 Dead9 wrote: hey, i'm stuck with no access to a gym for another month and a half and i was wondering if you guys had any advice i'm just trying to gain weight (particularly upper body); strength would be a nice side effect but not something i'm really aiming for i know weight gain is mostly diet but i just wanna make sure i'm not doing anything dumb or super inefficient
i started about a week ago and atm i'm doing: pushups (swap between normal/wide/staggered/airplanes every set) pistol squats isometric curls (i think that's what they're called?) repeat*2 planche/Lsit *3
the first time i did Lsits my stomach hurt for 2 days and eating sucked lol
On July 21 2012 23:50 Dead9 wrote: i do each set until i'm really tired, which is like 25~50 depending on what i'm doing (airplanes are impossible) unfortunately all i have is the ground and a bed and a chair i don't know any pulling exercises i can do with that, i'm using isometric curls as a replacement but it doesn't feel very satisfying
See this article from the OP about building a good routine
Tough exercises in the 5-12 rep range for hypertrophy... standard 1-3 minutes rest between sets
Hang yourself under a chair(s) or table for inverted rows
Go outside to find a tree branch for pullups or stair well or door if it can support you.
Lots of options.. be creative
now i feel dumb for not reading through that properly lol
edit: okay i found somewhere to do pullups, i'm worried it might break (wooden overhang thing) but it seems to be holding up for now does something like below sound okay? wall handstand (working toward wall handstand pushups?) L sit (working toward manna) planche progression staggered pushups (working toward one arm pushups) pullups one leg squats (working toward one leg pistol squats)
as a side note handstands is the scariest thing i've done in a long time, i've looked up how to roll out of them backwards but all i have is a wooden floor and i'm terrified lol
edit2: happy bday
Sounds good!
And thanks!
On July 23 2012 02:19 mordek wrote: Happy birthday Eshlow!
Hey guys although this is mainly a question for eshlow, I have been reading the articles on eatmoveimprove, and the bodyweight thread here on TL, and have been wondering if you could answer a question for me. I've got a too straight spine, which i think is called posterior pelvic tilt. I'm doing something called Funktionstraining, which means literally functiontraining (doctors here prescribe it when you have back pains, knee problems etc., and it is done in groups where you do lots of stability, mobility and stretching exercises but for all kinds of patients not specially for back troubles), as well as glute, hamstring and abdominal stretches at home. I am painfree except for really long sitting sessions. Now I would like to know if there would be reasons not to start bodyweight strength training with my condition or if there aren't if there is things i would need to take into consideration when building a routine.
Is there some kind of beneficial difference for paying an extra $40?
I'm no way a gymnast, but what I can see is that plastic will make your hands sweat, get slippery and will make holding yourself a pain in the ass. Wood means you won't sweat and have a strong grip.
On July 26 2012 19:09 eLyx wrote: Hey guys although this is mainly a question for eshlow, I have been reading the articles on eatmoveimprove, and the bodyweight thread here on TL, and have been wondering if you could answer a question for me. I've got a too straight spine, which i think is called posterior pelvic tilt. I'm doing something called Funktionstraining, which means literally functiontraining (doctors here prescribe it when you have back pains, knee problems etc., and it is done in groups where you do lots of stability, mobility and stretching exercises but for all kinds of patients not specially for back troubles), as well as glute, hamstring and abdominal stretches at home. I am painfree except for really long sitting sessions. Now I would like to know if there would be reasons not to start bodyweight strength training with my condition or if there aren't if there is things i would need to take into consideration when building a routine.
Nope, bodyweight training will be fine for you to start, especially as you will get stronger and it should help your back
Alright so I bought your book eshlow and I gotta say so far it is a very interesting and informative read ( couldnt finish it yet, its really extensive after all :D, I did look at most or all chapter summarys though, those were a very good idea ). I made a routine and would love to get some feedback from you:
I am 178 cm and 74 kg ( lost 12 kg this year through better nutrition and some sports ), roughly 10% bodyfat according to the YMCA method (dunno if that is interesting or not). My general goals are some hypertrophy, especially in the chest, but mainly gaining strength and flexibility to be able to perform some of those awesome skills. According to your despcriptions about hypertrophy and strength gains related to training intensity and volume, the looks i desire would come naturally from training in this sort of manner anyway. I do not have any background in strength training.
Warm Up Skill Work - Handstands and L-Sits working towards Manna Work Out - Pushups (progression working towards 1 handed Pushups) Bar Inverted Rows Pullups (progression working towards 1 handed pullups) Frog Stand (progression working towards full planche) Legs ( working towards pistol squats ) Mobility/Flexibility - (most importantly hips (straddle, pike) spine (bridge) and shoulders)
Now in your book you recommend to pick your goals according to what you want to be able to do, but also recommend 1 vertical push downwards, e.g. dips. Do you think my proposed routine is imbalanced in that point or fine? I hope I didn't misunderstand anything in the book ( not a native speaker so it can happen from time to time i guess ).
One final question for you guys relating to ring setup (thanks again to you all and esp. eshlow, buying your book soon partially because of your kindness!): What is a safe way to set up rings at home? I've been googling but I'd like to see if any of you guys have experience doing this safely. I'm not a huge fan of my ceiling caving in.
Well I have a big tree in the backyard so that works, also can hang them off the patio rafters. I know some people hang them off an iron gym (chin up bar thing that goes in the doorway) if they have nothing else.
On July 29 2012 21:42 eLyx wrote: Alright so I bought your book eshlow and I gotta say so far it is a very interesting and informative read ( couldnt finish it yet, its really extensive after all :D, I did look at most or all chapter summarys though, those were a very good idea ). I made a routine and would love to get some feedback from you:
I am 178 cm and 74 kg ( lost 12 kg this year through better nutrition and some sports ), roughly 10% bodyfat according to the YMCA method (dunno if that is interesting or not). My general goals are some hypertrophy, especially in the chest, but mainly gaining strength and flexibility to be able to perform some of those awesome skills. According to your despcriptions about hypertrophy and strength gains related to training intensity and volume, the looks i desire would come naturally from training in this sort of manner anyway. I do not have any background in strength training.
Warm Up Skill Work - Handstands and L-Sits working towards Manna Work Out - Pushups (progression working towards 1 handed Pushups) Bar Inverted Rows Pullups (progression working towards 1 handed pullups) Frog Stand (progression working towards full planche) Legs ( working towards pistol squats ) Mobility/Flexibility - (most importantly hips (straddle, pike) spine (bridge) and shoulders)
Now in your book you recommend to pick your goals according to what you want to be able to do, but also recommend 1 vertical push downwards, e.g. dips. Do you think my proposed routine is imbalanced in that point or fine? I hope I didn't misunderstand anything in the book ( not a native speaker so it can happen from time to time i guess ).
This is a pretty solid routine to start. As for dips you don't need anymore at the moment.... and in fact if you are coming from a reasonably unathletic background this may even be too much.
I would play it by feel; if it feels like too much then I would definitely cut out maybe 1-2 exercises but we'll see it's possible you can handle it right off of the bat. I'm probably going to scale down some of my "pure" beginner recommendations in the 2nd ed.
On July 30 2012 09:51 Soulfire wrote: One final question for you guys relating to ring setup (thanks again to you all and esp. eshlow, buying your book soon partially because of your kindness!): What is a safe way to set up rings at home? I've been googling but I'd like to see if any of you guys have experience doing this safely. I'm not a huge fan of my ceiling caving in.
Easiest way if you have a basement is probably from rafters if you can
Ohterwise, if you have a doorway pullup bar you can hang it off those. Squat rack, or power tower or anyything like that works too
Outside also works too off a tree or any other thing that can support weight.
What are some examples of D, E, and F skills if you don't mind me asking?
So I can hold an L-sit. My legs aren't perfectly straight, but I'm getting there. The problem is is that I cannot do an L-sit on the ground because I can't hold myself off the ground with my arms. What can I do to fix this? I've been overhead pressing a lot lately (I modified madcows to run OHP 2x a week), but beyond that I'm not sure what to do.
On August 12 2012 04:46 Catch wrote: What are some examples of D, E, and F skills if you don't mind me asking?
So I can hold an L-sit. My legs aren't perfectly straight, but I'm getting there. The problem is is that I cannot do an L-sit on the ground because I can't hold myself off the ground with my arms. What can I do to fix this? I've been overhead pressing a lot lately (I modified madcows to run OHP 2x a week), but beyond that I'm not sure what to do.
You'll notice some similarities between the charts of OG and how the skills are rated
Can you do a tuck Lsit or one leg bent on ground? Alternatively, you can work L-sit on parallettes, chairs, rings, etc.
You need good hammy flexibility + good scapular depression (pecs, lats, low trap, etc.).. plus it helps if your arms are a bit longer but some people don't have that
The way I currently do my L-sits is by hanging from a chin up bar. I just did my first proper L-sit yesterday. I couldn't hold the correct position for too long. My only problem is that I cannot hold myself up with my arms; I can dangle there just fine, but actually holding myself off the ground is a bit difficult (meaning I can't do it.)
Holding yourself off the ground is the basis of the skill, as others have said dips should help you some, and working on having your legs tucked to your chest so that balance/leverage isn't working against you as much.
I do not exercise to just be a number, not just be a mass or a diameter or a picture. I’m not one to be too comfortable putting all my numbers out on the internet to be judged immediately at face value. Yes aiming to have a nice body is nice, but what I’m far more focused on (in terms of physical progression) is being able ‘to do cool things’. That’s why I love bodyweight training, cause I don’t have to pay a cent to some sweaty gym just to pump up my ego, since that’s NOT what I’m looking for, but can still train in a way that leads to doing large, dynamic, FUN moves. As an example, I’m sure a rowing machine is a great workout and you can get all strapping from it, but the exercise and result is the most repetitive, brain-dead boring thing ever! Yup, there’s a lot of room for creativity, self-expression and musicality on the rowing machine ^^ ! Granted I do do ‘dull’ repetitive strengthening exercises, but not as an ends in themselves, but as a means to progressing to doing what I call ‘fun stuff’.
Ok end of rant here’s my question. I haven’t been eating very much recently but I can change that (vegetables and protein yummm). The job I’m working right now is quite draining and tiring. The hours aren’t that bad, but throw in the 45min bike ride commute each way, I’m quite tired at the end of the day. Before I took up riding my bike here (I’m at work now), I would go BreakDance training 3 times a week at the local mall after hours, but the work’s gotten a lot more demanding and I find I’m too tired to go train. There’s no magic fix, but what sort of questions should I be asking myself, and thinking about, pertaining to motivation? I planned this summer as one where I’d really progress and finally achieve some really hard moves I’ve been working towards for a while. But it seems like I’ve let the opportunities slip by, instead of grabbing and using them, and now I feel back in my old rut/downwards spiral of not progressing, feeling down about it, thus being de-motivated and working even less etc...
The irony is, most of what I’m lacking now isn’t technique or mental understanding, its brute force determination and discipline to force my body to practice regularly until I’ve developed the musculature and strength necessary to do the stuff. Don’t worry about safety and pushing myself too hard. On the contrary I’ve always been one to highly prioritize mobility and not overstraining to keep up flexibility and minimize ‘down time’/’potential injuries’ (I’ve already had enough injuries to learn not to be too bull-headed and stupidly hurt myself by going too hard).
You can read lots of stuff online tailored for people trying to use their (upper-)bodies like moo-cows (put on meat, to eat). But what guidelines/resources are there explaining training mentality and ‘how far you push yourself in a session’ with a gymnast’s focus. I did some as a kid, got injured for my life, and can only get back into it now, and didn’t get that training ): Would getting “Defying Gravity” be a good idea for explaining that mindset? Well, I’m gonna get it anyways, but I’m just gauging if I should wait till Christmas, or get it tomorrow ^^
I’m happy writing this much as I’d rather do this than job ATM.
TL;DR: [Universal] In a tiring lifestyle, what are the things you think about to get you motivated to go train. [Bodyweight] How do I gauge ‘how hard I train per session’ to not limit mobility and flexibility (I stretch a shit-ton) while still getting enough power for big movezz (e.g. gymnastics “Thomas”, powermoves in general etc.). [Eshlow] Are there things your book covers which, in your experience, guys like me wouldn’t know they’re lacking? I’m also assistant teacher for BreakDance classes back in Uni, is your book a good resource for giving people basic progression training advice?
I do not exercise to just be a number, not just be a mass or a diameter or a picture. I’m not one to be too comfortable putting all my numbers out on the internet to be judged immediately at face value. Yes aiming to have a nice body is nice, but what I’m far more focused on (in terms of physical progression) is being able ‘to do cool things’. That’s why I love bodyweight training, cause I don’t have to pay a cent to some sweaty gym just to pump up my ego, since that’s NOT what I’m looking for, but can still train in a way that leads to doing large, dynamic, FUN moves. As an example, I’m sure a rowing machine is a great workout and you can get all strapping from it, but the exercise and result is the most repetitive, brain-dead boring thing ever! Yup, there’s a lot of room for creativity, self-expression and musicality on the rowing machine ^^ ! Granted I do do ‘dull’ repetitive strengthening exercises, but not as an ends in themselves, but as a means to progressing to doing what I call ‘fun stuff’.
Ok end of rant here’s my question. I haven’t been eating very much recently but I can change that (vegetables and protein yummm). The job I’m working right now is quite draining and tiring. The hours aren’t that bad, but throw in the 45min bike ride commute each way, I’m quite tired at the end of the day. Before I took up riding my bike here (I’m at work now), I would go BreakDance training 3 times a week at the local mall after hours, but the work’s gotten a lot more demanding and I find I’m too tired to go train. There’s no magic fix, but what sort of questions should I be asking myself, and thinking about, pertaining to motivation? I planned this summer as one where I’d really progress and finally achieve some really hard moves I’ve been working towards for a while. But it seems like I’ve let the opportunities slip by, instead of grabbing and using them, and now I feel back in my old rut/downwards spiral of not progressing, feeling down about it, thus being de-motivated and working even less etc...
The irony is, most of what I’m lacking now isn’t technique or mental understanding, its brute force determination and discipline to force my body to practice regularly until I’ve developed the musculature and strength necessary to do the stuff. Don’t worry about safety and pushing myself too hard. On the contrary I’ve always been one to highly prioritize mobility and not overstraining to keep up flexibility and minimize ‘down time’/’potential injuries’ (I’ve already had enough injuries to learn not to be too bull-headed and stupidly hurt myself by going too hard).
You can read lots of stuff online tailored for people trying to use their (upper-)bodies like moo-cows (put on meat, to eat). But what guidelines/resources are there explaining training mentality and ‘how far you push yourself in a session’ with a gymnast’s focus. I did some as a kid, got injured for my life, and can only get back into it now, and didn’t get that training ): Would getting “Defying Gravity” be a good idea for explaining that mindset? Well, I’m gonna get it anyways, but I’m just gauging if I should wait till Christmas, or get it tomorrow ^^
I’m happy writing this much as I’d rather do this than job ATM.
TL;DR: [Universal] In a tiring lifestyle, what are the things you think about to get you motivated to go train. [Bodyweight] How do I gauge ‘how hard I train per session’ to not limit mobility and flexibility (I stretch a shit-ton) while still getting enough power for big movezz (e.g. gymnastics “Thomas”, powermoves in general etc.). [Eshlow] Are there things your book covers which, in your experience, guys like me wouldn’t know they’re lacking? I’m also assistant teacher for BreakDance classes back in Uni, is your book a good resource for giving people basic progression training advice?
Not sure if I was supposed to comment on the spoiler since no questions in it?
Anyway,
Universal -- nothing really to be honest. The biggest thing is just consistency, and once you GET consistency it becomes habit. And habit becomes progress. So just FORCE yourself to do things for a couple months and then it will come naturally. I can't really say anything beyond that because different people get hyped up for different things -- some want the aesthetics, some want the strength, some want to show off to their friends, whatever.
Basically, whatever floats your boat to get you training is good.
Bodyweight -- If you're used to working out a decent amount I would aim to strength train 2-3x per week, and be doing sports/discipline specific practice at least 3-4 if not a couple more times. If that makes sense... generally speaking, you train to what your routine is made out of, and that is best for beginners to learn what works for them.
eshlow -- Well, the book covers 3 topics mainly:
1. How to construct a workout routine (120 pages) on all of the science, programming, logic that goes into constructing one towards your goals. + 30 pages of sample programming to show how different types of routines are built. 2. Health and injuries -- mobility work, flexibility work, potential injuries and how to approach them, and lifestyle stuff (120 pages) 3. 260 pages on exercise technique, descriptions, illustrations
So.... yes, it's a very good book for those looking to start out with bodyweight strength type stuff.
Thanks! I'll order it today since it seems simply delightful. By the way, its so awesome that we have you constantly checking and posting on the forums, its such a fantastic support and resource. How is it that you can afford to be (just about) an on-demand professional consultant , on some wayward forum like TeamLiquid? I'm thinking in terms of just the sheer amount of support you provide for this sub-forum. Like, you could totally make money off this kind of service. Actually, do already do, and here's some delightful irony:
Your post in my thread about downloading copywrited books for free
On January 12 2012 23:13 bITt.mAN wrote:OK paying the author does kinda mean he can eat and live,
As an author, yes, this is actually very important.
I can't produce good quality info/books/etc. if I don't have financial support....
My book sales go towards paying off my financial debt from school.
I pretty much expect piracy as an inevitability, but I would like to think that those who do pirate would eventually support me in some way so I can continue to write about stuff people like to hear
While I do look for the cheaper deal (.co.uk today for instance), I'll certainly pay you, in no small part as I know if I have any questions.......
On August 28 2012 20:29 bITt.mAN wrote: Thanks! I'll order it today since it seems simply delightful. By the way, its so awesome that we have you constantly checking and posting on the forums, its such a fantastic support and resource. How is it that you can afford to be (just about) an on-demand professional consultant , on some wayward forum like TeamLiquid? I'm thinking in terms of just the sheer amount of support you provide for this sub-forum. Like, you could totally make money off this kind of service. Actually, do already do, and here's some delightful irony:
Your post in my thread about downloading copywrited books for free
On January 12 2012 23:13 bITt.mAN wrote:OK paying the author does kinda mean he can eat and live,
As an author, yes, this is actually very important.
I can't produce good quality info/books/etc. if I don't have financial support....
My book sales go towards paying off my financial debt from school.
I pretty much expect piracy as an inevitability, but I would like to think that those who do pirate would eventually support me in some way so I can continue to write about stuff people like to hear
While I do look for the cheaper deal (.co.uk today for instance), I'll certainly pay you, in no small part as I know if I have any questions.......
I browse quite a few forums though I've cut it down now actually to far fewer as I have less time. Full time internships now. SC was a big part of my life growing up so I thought I could contribute by giving some stuff back. Biggest thing was just writing the OPs for most of the threads; most of these posts in the thread take me very little time fortunately.
In any case, I provide lots of free infos and time because I like to educate/teach people and that's originally what my site was based off of.
But yes, if you got any questions or need any routines critiques feel free to hit me up after reading the book.
And yes, I remember that thread. Still have substantial debt from school that I need book sales to help pay off haha.
I impulse bought your book last night Eshlow. Finally realised (well I've always known) that I hate most upper body barbell exercises, especially bench. I find it much more enjoyable doing things like weighted pushups, handstands, etc.
Main goal at this stage would be handstand pushups.
On August 31 2012 08:58 Ludrik wrote: I impulse bought your book last night Eshlow. Finally realised (well I've always known) that I hate most upper body barbell exercises, especially bench. I find it much more enjoyable doing things like weighted pushups, handstands, etc.
Main goal at this stage would be handstand pushups.
Read through and if you have any questions let me know, and also if you need a routine critique I can provide some.
Hanging from a bar/rings, and with your legs straight and together, putting your feet up by your hands in one clean motion (lifty all the way). More than that, sorry, my gosu book hasn't arrived in the mail yet, so can't really say. 'Plank' (not 'Planche') with alternating feet up-down can also get harduu.
On September 01 2012 15:05 AirbladeOrange wrote: Does anyone have any good exercises for abs/core that are difficult? I'm looking for new and challenging things to do.
L-sit/V-sit/manna ab wheel hanging leg raises RKC plank
Anything lying on your back tends to be crap and not worth the time (see situps, crunches, bicycles, etc.).
Meh, it's decent if you want to learn it with momentum.
If you want to learn it strict then you need to work on your false grip so you can get over the bar, or have really good explosive pulling strength flip over your arms
Meh, it's decent if you want to learn it with momentum.
If you want to learn it strict then you need to work on your false grip so you can get over the bar, or have really good explosive pulling strength flip over your arms
Why would you not start with some swing? I have to think there is no better progression to working towards a static MU than actually doing them with a less and less kip.
plus its 100x more satisfying to actually do the skill than just grinding out weighted pullups or whatever for ages.
Meh, it's decent if you want to learn it with momentum.
If you want to learn it strict then you need to work on your false grip so you can get over the bar, or have really good explosive pulling strength flip over your arms
Why would you not start with some swing? I have to think there is no better progression to working towards a static MU than actually doing them with a less and less kip.
plus its 100x more satisfying to actually do the skill than just grinding out weighted pullups or whatever for ages.
I don't recommend grinding out weighted pullups.
If you have 5 solid chest to bar pullups, and 5 deep dips you can probably get a muscle up if you work on the transition.
I generally don't advise much momentum for new people because it's different motor patterns with the swing (because you have the forward/backward momentum as you can see in the vid) than it is with a strict muscle up.
Strict bar muscle up is definitely harder than a strict rings muscle up though.
Meh, it's decent if you want to learn it with momentum.
If you want to learn it strict then you need to work on your false grip so you can get over the bar, or have really good explosive pulling strength flip over your arms
Why would you not start with some swing? I have to think there is no better progression to working towards a static MU than actually doing them with a less and less kip.
plus its 100x more satisfying to actually do the skill than just grinding out weighted pullups or whatever for ages.
I don't recommend grinding out weighted pullups.
If you have 5 solid chest to bar pullups, and 5 deep dips you can probably get a muscle up if you work on the transition.
I generally don't advise much momentum for new people because it's different motor patterns with the swing (because you have the forward/backward momentum as you can see in the vid) than it is with a strict muscle up.
Strict bar muscle up is definitely harder than a strict rings muscle up though.
I think the difference between a ring MU and a bar MU is much bigger than doing it with a bit of swing. A real dead hang bar is actually really hard, especially with decent technique. There is no way I could see someone who can only do 5 solid pulls having near the power to do one.
Meh, it's decent if you want to learn it with momentum.
If you want to learn it strict then you need to work on your false grip so you can get over the bar, or have really good explosive pulling strength flip over your arms
Why would you not start with some swing? I have to think there is no better progression to working towards a static MU than actually doing them with a less and less kip.
plus its 100x more satisfying to actually do the skill than just grinding out weighted pullups or whatever for ages.
I don't recommend grinding out weighted pullups.
If you have 5 solid chest to bar pullups, and 5 deep dips you can probably get a muscle up if you work on the transition.
I generally don't advise much momentum for new people because it's different motor patterns with the swing (because you have the forward/backward momentum as you can see in the vid) than it is with a strict muscle up.
Strict bar muscle up is definitely harder than a strict rings muscle up though.
I think the difference between a ring MU and a bar MU is much bigger than doing it with a bit of swing. A real dead hang bar is actually really hard, especially with decent technique. There is no way I could see someone who can only do 5 solid pulls having near the power to do one.
I would agree with that.
I was generally talking about a rings MU.
You probably need at least 8-10 solid for the strict bar MU.
I am definitely definitely going to start getting into more BW training type stuff and im so happy that there's actually a TL thread for it and a resident expert! (and what appears to be an awesome book for the exact type of learnings that i like)
The only question I have before getting into anything is, is it reasonable to be able to gain some mass while doing strictly BW type of training? (I'm not looking to get huge - i have a fairly slim, but fit figure right now at 5"9 ~140, and am looking at probably gaining 20 pounds or so while still staying cut)
ps. are there any good protein supplements or things along that line that people can recommend that they put in shakes etc that they've had success with/know actually help, because besides really liking shakes i have a hard time eating a lot and ive ascertained that is quite helpful when trying to gain mass.
On September 03 2012 10:43 Divinek wrote: I am definitely definitely going to start getting into more BW training type stuff and im so happy that there's actually a TL thread for it and a resident expert! (and what appears to be an awesome book for the exact type of learnings that i like)
The only question I have before getting into anything is, is it reasonable to be able to gain some mass while doing strictly BW type of training? (I'm not looking to get huge - i have a fairly slim, but fit figure right now at 5"9 ~140, and am looking at probably gaining 20 pounds or so while still staying cut)
ps. are there any good protein supplements or things along that line that people can recommend that they put in shakes etc that they've had success with/know actually help, because besides really liking shakes i have a hard time eating a lot and ive ascertained that is quite helpful when trying to gain mass.
Thanks!
Yes, of course.
Although it will take longer than with weights since weights are superior to gain hypertrophy with.
As long as you stay in general 5-12ish rep range and increase the difficulty with your exercises and eat enough to put on the muscle mass you should be able to gain it.
Whey supplements can obviously help if you need more protein, but in general you'll want to get most of your calories and protein from real foods, as those have the nutrients in them.
I have other friends that are more on the overweight side and are looking to lose weight/get fit and stuff, do you think this is reasonable for people who arent really in shape to start pure BW and acheive good fat/weight loss and what not or would it be too hard for them as a starting point?
Also this may sound overly vague but i dont think i really know how to 'eat enough' to gain mass. I've been consciously trying to always eat more as of late but ive had no luck in gaining anything, should i start calorie counting? Are there easier ways? How do i know how much i should be eating relative to how much im working out if im doing BW stuffs?
I have other friends that are more on the overweight side and are looking to lose weight/get fit and stuff, do you think this is reasonable for people who arent really in shape to start pure BW and acheive good fat/weight loss and what not or would it be too hard for them as a starting point?
Also this may sound overly vague but i dont think i really know how to 'eat enough' to gain mass. I've been consciously trying to always eat more as of late but ive had no luck in gaining anything, should i start calorie counting? Are there easier ways? How do i know how much i should be eating relative to how much im working out if im doing BW stuffs?
Since fat loss/weight loss is going to be at least 85+% in the diet, it doesn't really matter what they do for exercise.
People should do what they want for exercise. Generally speaking, however, weight training or bodyweight strength/hypertrophy training tends to be better than traditional cardio and whatever just because it stimulates more muscle mass and strength, and almost everyone now can use more muscle mass and more strength.
Calorie counting would be good.
I would suggest eating until you feel full at every meal. And then eating a bit more.
If that doesn't work, eat until you feel sick at every meal. Your stomach will slowly expand as you consistently eat more.
When you get in shape you can burn your whole daily maintenance in a cycling session. That will mean you are hours on the bike, but you can do that.
Usually indeed losing weight is mostly diet. But when you can burn 2000 to 3000 kcal, it is hard not to lose weight even if you eat unrestricted (but healthy). Also, you can't get injured while cycling unless you crash.
If you put on more muscle, your calories burned in maintenance will go up. But gaining muscle is a slow process and a kg of muscle only burns around 30 kcal. It may take you 2 months to increase your maintenance kcal burned by 30. You definitely want to increase your lean body mass, but it won't be a miracle solution to burning fat.
Now there's some people here that will tell you to get fat first while doing heavy barbell lifting. They think putting more fat on your body helps you to respond better to strength training because you are a in a calorie surplus. This is not supported by any clinical evidence. Then they want you to go on a super strict diet to lose all that fat. This is both inefficient as well as unhealthy. It leads to the absurdity of so called internet fitness guru's telling people that want to lose weight to eat until they are full and then eat more until they feel sick. Does that sound right?
Doing cardio is so important for your health in general you should always start there. Health goes above aethetics all the way. If you can do nothing else, do cardio. You need to do high intensity cardio to really increase performance. But low intensity cardio has huge health benefits and improves your endurance. What it doesn't do is build muscle. That's where strength training does come in.
As a beginner you can start out with bodyweight training. But unless you have rings you soon will have to move up to heavy weights. And to lift heavy free weights you need to have professional coaching because risk of injury is there when using bad form. This is no joke. You can ruin your back or shoulder ligaments permanently. Don't listen to people that say you can always just depend on the internet. You can't.
Muscle gains are very slow. If you don't see any in 6 months you should try to train differently. Training hard and resting harder is how you build muscle. But it is slow. That's why people who do it while gaining a lot of fat think they gain more muscle that they do. They see the scale move and they see their body bloat. If you can get your body composition measured. This actually shows you if you made progression. Then aim to lose both fat, if you are overweight, and gain muscle.
Another thing to note, you don't have to have a six pack to be in shape. Especailly if you are older and depending on your genetics, you may store a lot of your fat on your belly. Don't mirror yourself with fitness models or Hollywood artists that only look the way they do for that movie/photoshoot and have to use unsustainable diets to get so extremely low fat. And then probably still use steroids anyway. Make sure your aesthetic goals are realistic and healthy.
On September 04 2012 01:52 Hanakurena wrote: When you get in shape you can burn your whole daily maintenance in a cycling session. That will mean you are hours on the bike, but you can do that.
Usually indeed losing weight is mostly diet. But when you can burn 2000 to 3000 kcal, it is hard not to lose weight even if you eat unrestricted (but healthy). Also, you can't get injured while cycling unless you crash.
If you put on more muscle, your calories burned in maintenance will go up. But gaining muscle is a slow process and a kg of muscle only burns around 30 kcal. It may take you 2 months to increase your maintenance kcal burned by 30. You definitely want to increase your lean body mass, but it won't be a miracle solution to burning fat.
Now there's some people here that will tell you to get fat first while doing heavy barbell lifting. They think putting more fat on your body helps you to respond better to strength training because you are a in a calorie surplus. This is not supported by any clinical evidence. Then they want you to go on a super strict diet to lose all that fat. This is both inefficient as well as unhealthy. It leads to the absurdity of so called internet fitness guru's telling people that want to lose weight to eat until they are full and then eat more until they feel sick. Does that sound right?
Doing cardio is so important for your health in general you should always start there. Health goes above aethetics all the way. If you can do nothing else, do cardio. You need to do high intensity cardio to really increase performance. But low intensity cardio has huge health benefits and improves your endurance. What it doesn't do is build muscle. That's where strength training does come in.
As a beginner you can start out with bodyweight training. But unless you have rings you soon will have to move up to heavy weights. And to lift heavy free weights you need to have professional coaching because risk of injury is there when using bad form. This is no joke. You can ruin your back or shoulder ligaments permanently. Don't listen to people that say you can always just depend on the internet. You can't.
Muscle gains are very slow. If you don't see any in 6 months you should try to train differently. Training hard and resting harder is how you build muscle. But it is slow. That's why people who do it while gaining a lot of fat think they gain more muscle that they do. They see the scale move and they see their body bloat. If you can get your body composition measured. This actually shows you if you made progression. Then aim to lose both fat, if you are overweight, and gain muscle.
Another thing to note, you don't have to have a six pack to be in shape. Especailly if you are older and depending on your genetics, you may store a lot of your fat on your belly. Don't mirror yourself with fitness models or Hollywood artists that only look the way they do for that movie/photoshoot and have to use unsustainable diets to get so extremely low fat. And then probably still use steroids anyway. Make sure your aesthetic goals are realistic and healthy.
I think you often have some sound points in your posts, but at the same time you have to stop making stuff up. Noone here ever said that you should get fat first and then lose all the weight again to gain muscle, absolutely noone. Unless you consider putting on 5kg (11lb) of mass "getting fat". We are not advocating temporary obesity here. In fact I am one of the guys who encourages people to not be afraid of having some additional mass. But when someone weighs 80kg at 180cm (176@5'11), I only tell them that they don't have to lose weight to get ride of their gut but do strength training (what these guys are always going for is losing 5kg on a crash diet and then wondering why they still don't have abs). I don't tell them to go up to 90kg.
Apart from that, concerning the number of calories a kg of additional muscle burns thorughout the day: I believe by now I have seen around 10 different numbers floating around the internet and I have no idea which one is accurate.So if someone could share a reliable source for that, I would be thankful. From the top of my head I remember something like 13kcal per lb, which pretty much is ~28-29kcal per kg. But I am not so sure if that is the whole story. I mean, a 90kg guy with the same amount of muscle as a 80kg guy will have to burn more calories everytime he moves around, since he just has to move around more mass. So I don't know if this passive amount of calories is somewhat accounted for.
I have other friends that are more on the overweight side and are looking to lose weight/get fit and stuff, do you think this is reasonable for people who arent really in shape to start pure BW and acheive good fat/weight loss and what not or would it be too hard for them as a starting point?
To give you a benchmark: I am 109kg at 181cm (240lb@5'11 1/2). I am what most normal people would consider to be pretty strong and I am doing bw/weight/cardio training excessively for 18months. For bodyweight stuff, I can do:
- 22sec L-Sit from parllel bars (not from the ground) - hold Wall-Handstands for ~30sec - 7 chin ups - 4 pull ups - 13 dips - 45 push-ups
This is mostly basic exercises and won't impress too many people, but it took a whole lot of work to get to those numbers. So what I am basically saying is, if your friends weigh above 100kg (220lb), and are not in good physical shape, I would not recommend bw-training. They won't be able to do much and the progress is extremely slow. Free weights are just more straight forward.
Ah I see, you have been very helpful so far thank you!
I already have a door frame pull up bar, and I'll probably order those wood rings from rogue fitness as they do look quite nice. Though I'm not too clear on the best way to hang rings from a door frame pull up bar I'm sure that's easy to figure out, I was wondering if there's actually enough room to do everything with a set up like this?
I would assume with move like back lever/front lever having your rings hanging from a door frame is no problem, but wouldnt it be problematic for stuff like iron cross/anything that starts to pull your body more towards the upright/inverted instead of horizontal because of the door frame etc being in the way? And that it doesnt provide enough room where your arms need to stretch outward and so on? (though i imagine i wont have to worry about move like that for a while)
Any particular things you'd recommend to do while I'm waiting for equipment/your book etc and I only have a wall/floor to work with as a completely lost, complete beginner? lol (just want to get started on something productive asap)
I currently intend to just start working on flexibility, maybe a bit of wall-handstand work, as mentioned in your article linked to in the OP, but the more tips the merrier
On September 04 2012 05:53 Divinek wrote: Ah I see, you have been very helpful so far thank you!
I already have a door frame pull up bar, and I'll probably order those wood rings from rogue fitness as they do look quite nice. Though I'm not too clear on the best way to hang rings from a door frame pull up bar I'm sure that's easy to figure out, I was wondering if there's actually enough room to do everything with a set up like this?
I would assume with move like back lever/front lever having your rings hanging from a door frame is no problem, but wouldnt it be problematic for stuff like iron cross/anything that starts to pull your body more towards the upright/inverted instead of horizontal because of the door frame etc being in the way? And that it doesnt provide enough room where your arms need to stretch outward and so on? (though i imagine i wont have to worry about move like that for a while)
Any particular things you'd recommend to do while I'm waiting for equipment/your book etc and I only have a wall/floor to work with as a completely lost, complete beginner? lol (just want to get started on something productive asap)
I currently intend to just start working on flexibility, maybe a bit of wall-handstand work, as mentioned in your article linked to in the OP, but the more tips the merrier
Yes, it's fine for most things except cross... well, if you're training cross you'll likely have to do it in L-cross if you use a doorway with feet on a block.
Same with muscle ups you can raise the rings a bit and start from seated L-sit position for example.
It mentions most of the salient points on how to construct a routine without the tons of details that the book will throw out you for everything. Throw one together and I'll critique if you want.
You know somehow i skimmed that article like twice but missed the key points that would actually enable me to figure out a routine lol
anyways i came up with something like this for myself (3 days a week)
-elevated bent leg middle split hold (manna) -wall handstand work, i can comfortably hold one for a decent amount of time (2 minutes~) and i can almost do a full push up from this position so i figure ill work towards being able to do those more comfortably/doing more than 1 -planche progression starting with frog -dips on rings -L sit work -Front lever 60s -Back lever 60s -Squats + Deadlifts for leg exercises (probably follow SS recommendations for how to do this stuff)
And i also want to add in rice bucket + eventually wrist push ups cause i feel like my wrists are unusually weak +flexibility stuff like working on the splits, wall slides, german hangs, band dislocates
One thing I was wondering is you say this in the article "As you become more advanced (2-3 more cycles with appropriate rest weeks of the above cycle of 4-8 weeks), the program morphs into:"
Does that mean you'd do around 18~ weeks of this given routine before moving onto to the more advanced form of incorporating more exercises etc? And for anything that involves progression, like plank or building up to manna what is a good way to gauge when to move onto the next step? Finally when working on stuff like planche progression, manna, lsit etc how much should one do in any given day, until your body is fatigued and you find it hard to really do it, or only for a minute~ like other exercises?
On September 05 2012 03:51 Divinek wrote: You know somehow i skimmed that article like twice but missed the key points that would actually enable me to figure out a routine lol
anyways i came up with something like this for myself (3 days a week)
-elevated bent leg middle split hold (manna) -wall handstand work, i can comfortably hold one for a decent amount of time (2 minutes~) and i can almost do a full push up from this position so i figure ill work towards being able to do those more comfortably/doing more than 1 -planche progression starting with frog -dips on rings -L sit work -Front lever 60s -Back lever 60s -Squats + Deadlifts for leg exercises (probably follow SS recommendations for how to do this stuff)
And i also want to add in rice bucket + eventually wrist push ups cause i feel like my wrists are unusually weak +flexibility stuff like working on the splits, wall slides, german hangs, band dislocates
One thing I was wondering is you say this in the article "As you become more advanced (2-3 more cycles with appropriate rest weeks of the above cycle of 4-8 weeks), the program morphs into:"
Does that mean you'd do around 18~ weeks of this given routine before moving onto to the more advanced form of incorporating more exercises etc? And for anything that involves progression, like plank or building up to manna what is a good way to gauge when to move onto the next step? Finally when working on stuff like planche progression, manna, lsit etc how much should one do in any given day, until your body is fatigued and you find it hard to really do it, or only for a minute~ like other exercises?
Thanks
Looks pretty solid... if you can hold wall handstand that long I would suggest working towards freestanding handstand too.
No, it means that as you increase reps every session or every other session and are progressing on difficulty of exercises then eventually you'll end up with something that looks like the next routine.
The routine doesn't stay the same even day to day because you will likely improve on it almost every session as you get stronger.
If you have Overcoming Gravity I suggest that once you can do the next progression isometric fo 6s, 3 reps of the next progression, or 3s eccentric you can probably move up. It would be a good idea to grab the book if you haven't already because it has about 120 pages explaining the programming whereas fundamentals is only about 10 I think.
You won't necessarily be doing a minute with isometrics/eccentrics:
Also, 3 sets for each exercise is enough; if you're going for strength do not-to-failure sets so maybe stop 1 rep short of failure, the last rep of the 3rd set will generally end up around failure.
You shouldn't feel the burn on any set, and you might not feel significantly fatigued after the workout which is fine. Although depending on your abilities you might. all depends on your conditioning level going in.
I've been doing a beginner routine for about a week or two, and I have some questions:
Is it normal to feel wrist strain when doing things like handstands and frog tucks (planche progression)? I'm not sure if it is a result of poor form or an indicator that my wrists are weak and building strength.
Also, I think I did too many wall handstands or something because my upper back feels sore (usually the only soreness I feel is in the forearms) and it's slightly painful as opposed to sore. Is this a result of trying to do too many and not resting properly? (I pushed myself to do an extra set today so instead of 4x40s I did like 5x45s).
On September 21 2012 12:13 slOosh wrote: I've been doing a beginner routine for about a week or two, and I have some questions:
Is it normal to feel wrist strain when doing things like handstands and frog tucks (planche progression)? I'm not sure if it is a result of poor form or an indicator that my wrists are weak and building strength.
Also, I think I did too many wall handstands or something because my upper back feels sore (usually the only soreness I feel is in the forearms) and it's slightly painful as opposed to sore. Is this a result of trying to do too many and not resting properly? (I pushed myself to do an extra set today so instead of 4x40s I did like 5x45s).
Thank you in advance!
Yes,
Turn your hands sideways for planche work to relieve the strain.
Make sure you are doing some wrist mobility and strength work as well. Back off of the handstands/etc. if it's bothering you too much and focus on mobility and strengthening.
And yes, you can aggravate things if you do too much. Although, try to see if mobility and/or foam rolling can improve your condition and drop handstands for a couple days and see how it turns out.
You recommend the wooden rings by Rogue Fitness ($80 after shipping), but is there a cheaper, acceptable alternative?
I'm really excited to get into bodyweight training, but I'm a poor college student with a tight budget. Using rings looks very fun/interesting and I don't want to pass them up because they are too expensive.
I got your book recently and I just wanted to say I'm ejoying it thoroughly. I haven't started too much body weight training yet, but I hope to be on a better routine soon when I finish more of the book.
On September 23 2012 13:28 Marimokkori wrote: You recommend the wooden rings by Rogue Fitness ($80 after shipping), but is there a cheaper, acceptable alternative?
I'm really excited to get into bodyweight training, but I'm a poor college student with a tight budget. Using rings looks very fun/interesting and I don't want to pass them up because they are too expensive.
On September 23 2012 13:28 Marimokkori wrote: You recommend the wooden rings by Rogue Fitness ($80 after shipping), but is there a cheaper, acceptable alternative?
I'm really excited to get into bodyweight training, but I'm a poor college student with a tight budget. Using rings looks very fun/interesting and I don't want to pass them up because they are too expensive.
On September 23 2012 13:28 Marimokkori wrote: You recommend the wooden rings by Rogue Fitness ($80 after shipping), but is there a cheaper, acceptable alternative?
I'm really excited to get into bodyweight training, but I'm a poor college student with a tight budget. Using rings looks very fun/interesting and I don't want to pass them up because they are too expensive.
Yes, there are cheaper plastic rings probably in the 40-50$ range off Amazon or other suppliers if you want those.
Or you can google some of the DIY -- do it yourself -- guides with rings to make some PVC pipe rings
On September 23 2012 13:40 DimmuKlok wrote: Hey eshlow,
I got your book recently and I just wanted to say I'm ejoying it thoroughly. I haven't started too much body weight training yet, but I hope to be on a better routine soon when I finish more of the book.
Thanks for being awesome!
Haha, sweet. Let me know if you have any questions!
So I've read ~half of overcoming gravity so far. I like the way it's laid out, which makes it very easy to read and there's plenty of funny typos to keep you laughing.
I'm starting to formulate a bit of an idea in my head of what I want to do. I'm thinking 3 days a week (Mon/Wed/Fri) centered around these progressions: - Planche - Manna - Handstands - Pullup variations
This will be in addition to my regular weights workouts that are basically either squatting or deadlifting each day Monday to Friday. Might add barbell rows in 2-3 days a week to give me a horizontal pulling exercise.
So far I've just been experimenting doing wall handstands, frog stance and pullups.
I've been trying to do a tuck L-sit on the floor and can't quite get it. I can do it if my shoulders are slightly in front of my hands, but can't do it with the slight lean back that's shown in the picture in the book. I can just get the slight backwards lean for about a second if I do it off of these parralette/pushup grip things I've got.
Then I guess the main other thing will be to work on my wrist flexibility which completely sucks. I can only get about a 45 degree angle between my wrist and hand with straight fingers (~75-80 with closed fist). I've been starting to work in front squats so hopefully that will help to speed up the process.
Hamstring flexibility also needs a lot of work. I haven't been able to touch my toes since I was about 16 (currently 22) so I guess that's a good goal.
On September 28 2012 07:46 Ludrik wrote: So I've read ~half of overcoming gravity so far. I like the way it's laid out, which makes it very easy to read and there's plenty of funny typos to keep you laughing.
I'm starting to formulate a bit of an idea in my head of what I want to do. I'm thinking 3 days a week (Mon/Wed/Fri) centered around these progressions: - Planche - Manna - Handstands - Pullup variations
This will be in addition to my regular weights workouts that are basically either squatting or deadlifting each day Monday to Friday. Might add barbell rows in 2-3 days a week to give me a horizontal pulling exercise.
So far I've just been experimenting doing wall handstands, frog stance and pullups.
I've been trying to do a tuck L-sit on the floor and can't quite get it. I can do it if my shoulders are slightly in front of my hands, but can't do it with the slight lean back that's shown in the picture in the book. I can just get the slight backwards lean for about a second if I do it off of these parralette/pushup grip things I've got.
Then I guess the main other thing will be to work on my wrist flexibility which completely sucks. I can only get about a 45 degree angle between my wrist and hand with straight fingers (~75-80 with closed fist). I've been starting to work in front squats so hopefully that will help to speed up the process.
Hamstring flexibility also needs a lot of work. I haven't been able to touch my toes since I was about 16 (currently 22) so I guess that's a good goal.
lol, yeah on the typos... professional editing is coming for the 2nd edition sometime late next year.
This looks pretty solid in combined with the barbell work that you're going to do.
3x a week full body for all of them or...? What would a typical week look like?
Definitely sounds like wrists and hamstrings need work though.
I was wondering with the pictures depicted there for planch progession, if you can see how the boy's fingers are kind of scrunched in towards his hands as opposed to being flat on the ground... Is there a reason for doing this, making it easier/harder? or is it more a comfort/preference thing?
I was wondering with the pictures depicted there for planch progession, if you can see how the boy's fingers are kind of scrunched in towards his hands as opposed to being flat on the ground... Is there a reason for doing this, making it easier/harder? or is it more a comfort/preference thing?
On October 06 2012 12:12 AirbladeOrange wrote: Hello. Does anybody have any good progressions they have used successfully for planche and handstand pushups?
On October 06 2012 12:12 AirbladeOrange wrote: Hello. Does anybody have any good progressions they have used successfully for planche and handstand pushups?
After reading through some of your book I'm trying to put together a routine for my upper body and I'm wondering what a good workload is for a beginner.
Right now I'm doing... Push/Horiz - Pushup Pull/Horiz - Row Push/Vert - Dip Pull/Vert - Pullup
Am I classifying these correctly? Is it enough?
Should I start including progressions on static holds I want to achieve even though I have no strength, ie I can barely do 2 pullups.
switched to body weight for a week now and im feeling so much better than when I was doing 5v5. I think its because its something new my body has to adapt to so I feel that there's "progress"
On October 10 2012 13:45 Marimokkori wrote: After reading through some of your book I'm trying to put together a routine for my upper body and I'm wondering what a good workload is for a beginner.
Right now I'm doing... Push/Horiz - Pushup Pull/Horiz - Row Push/Vert - Dip Pull/Vert - Pullup
Am I classifying these correctly? Is it enough?
Should I start including progressions on static holds I want to achieve even though I have no strength, ie I can barely do 2 pullups.
Oops! Sorry I didn't see this post..
What you have up there is great.
Don't do static holds yet if you can't do them. There's no point.
On October 10 2012 13:45 Marimokkori wrote: After reading through some of your book I'm trying to put together a routine for my upper body and I'm wondering what a good workload is for a beginner.
Right now I'm doing... Push/Horiz - Pushup Pull/Horiz - Row Push/Vert - Dip Pull/Vert - Pullup
Am I classifying these correctly? Is it enough?
Should I start including progressions on static holds I want to achieve even though I have no strength, ie I can barely do 2 pullups.
Oops! Sorry I didn't see this post..
What you have up there is great.
Don't do static holds yet if you can't do them. There's no point.
How do I know when to start including them? Occasionally try the first progression of a series, or is there some benchmark to hit first?
On October 10 2012 13:45 Marimokkori wrote: After reading through some of your book I'm trying to put together a routine for my upper body and I'm wondering what a good workload is for a beginner.
Right now I'm doing... Push/Horiz - Pushup Pull/Horiz - Row Push/Vert - Dip Pull/Vert - Pullup
Am I classifying these correctly? Is it enough?
Should I start including progressions on static holds I want to achieve even though I have no strength, ie I can barely do 2 pullups.
Oops! Sorry I didn't see this post..
What you have up there is great.
Don't do static holds yet if you can't do them. There's no point.
How do I know when to start including them? Occasionally try the first progression of a series, or is there some benchmark to hit first?
When you can start doing longer holds as per isometric charts:
On October 10 2012 13:45 Marimokkori wrote: After reading through some of your book I'm trying to put together a routine for my upper body and I'm wondering what a good workload is for a beginner.
Right now I'm doing... Push/Horiz - Pushup Pull/Horiz - Row Push/Vert - Dip Pull/Vert - Pullup
Am I classifying these correctly? Is it enough?
Should I start including progressions on static holds I want to achieve even though I have no strength, ie I can barely do 2 pullups.
Oops! Sorry I didn't see this post..
What you have up there is great.
Don't do static holds yet if you can't do them. There's no point.
How do I know when to start including them? Occasionally try the first progression of a series, or is there some benchmark to hit first?
When you can start doing longer holds as per isometric charts:
Then they replace push and pull exercises as necessary
Thank you.
Also, I think it's great that you offer this thread and are so generous with answering questions about the content of your book. I wish more authors did that.
On October 10 2012 13:45 Marimokkori wrote: After reading through some of your book I'm trying to put together a routine for my upper body and I'm wondering what a good workload is for a beginner.
Right now I'm doing... Push/Horiz - Pushup Pull/Horiz - Row Push/Vert - Dip Pull/Vert - Pullup
Am I classifying these correctly? Is it enough?
Should I start including progressions on static holds I want to achieve even though I have no strength, ie I can barely do 2 pullups.
Oops! Sorry I didn't see this post..
What you have up there is great.
Don't do static holds yet if you can't do them. There's no point.
How do I know when to start including them? Occasionally try the first progression of a series, or is there some benchmark to hit first?
When you can start doing longer holds as per isometric charts:
Then they replace push and pull exercises as necessary
Thank you.
Also, I think it's great that you offer this thread and are so generous with answering questions about the content of your book. I wish more authors did that.
<3 Overcoming Gravity, so <3 you too eshlow ! I will be posting excessively to that effect pretty soon, when I finish enough of my procrastinated course-work to be able to read ALL the things.
1. Equipment? This year I've decided to live in University Halls of Residence ('dorms'), and have no nifty vertical thing anywhere to hang RINGS from. Wouldn't it be too constrictive in a door-frame hanging from a pullup bar? I would be concerned to bash my hands 'n stuff... What I was considering would be getting a door-frame pullup-bar, (wooden) rings, and (pushup) paralletes. I mean, how else would I be able to do any 'pulls' ? I don't want that caveman look now
2. Breakdance. This is a great resource, primarily in how it teaches and equips you to construct your own routine and plan. Up to this point, learning hard moves has been "well, practice it x3 a week. Oh, you're sore? Lol then don't practice that move". To progress from now on, I seriously need a proper (progression) plan, to be more efficient and effective in my training, and to actually use science rather than superstition in home fitness. In terms of goals, rings things are really cool .... but I wanna fly, and there is never any material or information available on 'how to structure your training, to reach those big moves' so your advice and guidance will be invaluable, and also directly beneficial to the multiple people I'll pass it on to.
1. Doorway pullup bar and then you can hang rings off of them works pretty well. You can always adjust the rings up and down as necessary. Parallettes are optional, but usually a good option.
2. Breakdancing will become much easier to do as you get stronger.
However, the main problem is that generally the best way to learn is to have a coach of some sort -- someone that is better than you in that specific area and/or knows how to teach the skills.
The problem with the "how to structure your training" type stuff is that even as I wrote a book on how to construct a routine it varies widely from person to person how much progress you can get in certain sessions due to genetics, sleep, training intensity, nutrition, body awareness, strength, etc. so getting big moves may take someone a month whereas it might take someone else a year. That's the frustrating part because some people are more movement gifted than others. Hence, why a coach is so useful because they typically have gone through the mistakes that you go through and gthey know how to coach you through it
I'm having trouble starting on the L-sit progressions, more specifically the starting level tuck L sit.
It feels like my arms are too short. The only way I get off the ground is for my torso to lean forward, which puts my hips back which doesn't look right. And my arms feel even shorter when I try to face my hands backward. Is this a pure strength issue? (I do like 40s wall handstands and 4x4 pullups as reference). Or am I lacking proper technique?
On October 29 2012 12:05 slOosh wrote: I'm having trouble starting on the L-sit progressions, more specifically the starting level tuck L sit.
It feels like my arms are too short. The only way I get off the ground is for my torso to lean forward, which puts my hips back which doesn't look right. And my arms feel even shorter when I try to face my hands backward. Is this a pure strength issue? (I do like 40s wall handstands and 4x4 pullups as reference). Or am I lacking proper technique?
Could just be your arms are short and you have to get used to maximally depressing them.
If you need to, start with 2 chairs to elevate yourself if you don't have parallettes
Are dips going to be more helpful than bench press? My long-term goals are as of right now (still working on my routine while continuing lifting) are handstand push up, planche, manna, one arm chin up.
Also, I feel like I may be doing something wrong with dips. I never had an issue until a few months ago when I was adding more and more weight. Pain at different parts of the clavicle, different sides, that goes away after the exercise. Any cues or form I should be checking/aware of?
Yes, Wendler loves dips for helping pressing and so do I.
If you can vid yourself that would be ideal. Keep your scapulas depressed and retracted if possible... and if you need to stretch out your pecs and do more shoulder mobility work that may help too.
I'll probably post an update later today or tomorrow on my progress with BW stuff so far. To sum it up there's been no real advancement from one skill to the next. Shoulders feel amazingly healthy though. Anyway gotta run off now to my final undergrad exam!
Eh, there's really no such thing as a walking straddle planche because a planche requires that the arms be kept STRAIGHT the entire time. Obviously guy is not doing that above...
Post up everything if you're going to post so I can see what you were/are doing.
You should be making progress from workout to workout, generally, so if there's no progress in a week you need to change something around unless you are already advanced level strength
On November 12 2012 22:51 mordek wrote: This has been humbling. I can bench more than my bodyweight but can't do the straight arm tuck planche.
Does anyone have an example of how they track your progress? Like format-wise. It's just not as apparent to me as tracking weightlifting.
If you have a weight vest it makes things easier.
Otherwise, for static/isometrics you want to add 1-2s per workout. Work up to 3x20-25ish or so then try to move on if you can
For regular reps try to add 1 per workout or so... work up to about 8 or thereabout then move onto the next progression
Thanks Eshlow. I know I need to reread through the programming again. Need to focus and stop putting it off so I can start the process of becoming awesome now
Ive only been strictly working on upper body for the past 2 years. All my friends keep telling me to work on legs, I tried it once (did deadlifts) about a couple months back. My legs literally turned to jello and I wasnt able to go running for an entire week. After that I never wanted to do legs again.
But now my friend convinced me again, but to start with something small. We did leg presses, calves, and thighs. And Ill tell you. I love to run, but after resting for a couple days, my legs felt like I could run for ages. I suddenly realized how important leg strength is. I was always petrified that if I worked on legs itd look ugly and bulgy, but just doing extended low sets and your strength goes up exponentially. I wish I was doing this from the beginning. I love to run and working on legs lets me do that even more now.
Anyways, I think Im gonna do a full leg workout every friday from now on. I like to run during the weekdays, and I always chill out and relax during the weekends so it works out pretty well. But what are some good leg work outs I could do to help me with running? Mostly for stamina. Should I be focusing on the calf region in particular?
On November 13 2012 14:46 Emnjay808 wrote: Ive only been strictly working on upper body for the past 2 years. All my friends keep telling me to work on legs, I tried it once (did deadlifts) about a couple months back. My legs literally turned to jello and I wasnt able to go running for an entire week. After that I never wanted to do legs again.
But now my friend convinced me again, but to start with something small. We did leg presses, calves, and thighs. And Ill tell you. I love to run, but after resting for a couple days, my legs felt like I could run for ages. I suddenly realized how important leg strength is. I was always petrified that if I worked on legs itd look ugly and bulgy, but just doing extended low sets and your strength goes up exponentially. I wish I was doing this from the beginning. I love to run and working on legs lets me do that even more now.
Anyways, I think Im gonna do a full leg workout every friday from now on. I like to run during the weekdays, and I always chill out and relax during the weekends so it works out pretty well. But what are some good leg work outs I could do to help me with running? Mostly for stamina. Should I be focusing on the calf region in particular?
Thanks in advance.
Nah man just do some low volume strength work. Only have to work up to maybe 2x5 deadlifts about 2x per week or so.
Chances are if you legs were jello you did waaaaay too many sets with the deadlift. If you are jello with low sets then just work up the weight gradually. You don't have to jump into it with heavy weights for you.
Then maybe 1 other exercise. If you don't want to squat with both legs then maybe something like bulgarian split squats
Okay I'm finally getting around to my update post. So I've been focusing more on BW stuff for about the past 7 weeks. However during this time life got really hectic and l neglected exercise for a while. So I've only done ~2 BW workouts per week rather than the 3 that I was planning.
Here's a basic outline of my progression. I've progressed in terms of time of holds, but not to more advanced exercises:
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~5 sec - Hands ~75cm from wall. Frog stance 5 x ~1-3 sec - Struggling with balance. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Unable to do from floor. Just off chairs. Weighted pushups 3 x 15 x 10kg
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~10 sec - Hands ~70cm from wall Frog stance 5 x ~1-3 sec Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - On chairs. Very hard. Forward rolls ~5 minutes
Friday Wall handstands 5 x ~12 sec - Hands ~70cm from wall Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec Frog stance 5 x ~2-4 sec - Balance feeling more consistent Pullups 3 x 7
Tuesday Wall handstands 5 x ~10sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off paralletes. Frog stance 5 x ~3-4 sec Weighted pushups 3 x 15 x ~15kg
Friday Wall handstands 5 x ~10 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off parralletes Frog stance 5 x ~3-5 sec
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~12sec - Hands ~60cm from wall.
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~12 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~4 sec - On chairs. Main issue is maintaining scapular depression while in tuck. Frog stance 5 x ~3-5 sec
Tuesday Wall handstands 5 x ~15sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~1 sec - On floor. Very hard. Need to lean back more. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~4-5 sec - Still unable to straighten arms.
Monday Dips 3 x 8 - Focusing on keeping strict scapular depression throughout the movement. Pullups 5 x 6 Weighted plank 3 x ~30 seconds x 25kg Wall handstands 3 x ~15 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall.
Thursday Wall handstands 5 x ~15sec - Hands ~50cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~1 sec - On floor. Hard. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~4 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~20sec - Hands ~45cm from wall. Pushed myself hard with these. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~2 sec - On floor. Still trouble maintaining scapular depression while in tuck. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~5 sec - Off chairs Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~18sec - Hands ~45cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~6 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec - Still slight bend in arms but trying my best to straighten them. Weighted Decline pushups 5 x 10 x 20kg Plank 2 x ~60 sec Side planks 3 x ~30 sec each side
So I've made some progress, albeit fairly slow. My biggest issue at this point is maintaining scapular depression/retraction while in a tuck. I think this is my main issue preventing me from doing the tuck L-sits from the floor. Also I'm missing some hip internal rotation which makes it hard to bring my knees together during the tuck.
The wall handstands are progressing well enough. Need to keep bringing my hands closer to the wall though.
Kind of stuck on frog stance. Balance has improved but yf I try the same thing with arms straight(momentarily forgot the name) I feel my legs pressing on my elbows which feels kind of dangerous. I've tried the tuck version but am having a lot of trouble maintaining strength while in compression. I might post a video about this tomorrow as I think it will help me explain the trouble I'm having better.
I've got basically no commitments over the next 3 weeks (then I'm off to Japan and Hong Kong for most of December) so I plan to be a lot more consistent with my workouts. Hopefully I can make some decent progress in this time and then progress more slowly through my holiday.
On November 15 2012 09:54 Ludrik wrote: Okay I'm finally getting around to my update post. So I've been focusing more on BW stuff for about the past 7 weeks. However during this time life got really hectic and l neglected exercise for a while. So I've only done ~2 BW workouts per week rather than the 3 that I was planning.
Here's a basic outline of my progression. I've progressed in terms of time of holds, but not to more advanced exercises:
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~5 sec - Hands ~75cm from wall. Frog stance 5 x ~1-3 sec - Struggling with balance. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Unable to do from floor. Just off chairs. Weighted pushups 3 x 15 x 10kg
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~10 sec - Hands ~70cm from wall Frog stance 5 x ~1-3 sec Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - On chairs. Very hard. Forward rolls ~5 minutes
Friday Wall handstands 5 x ~12 sec - Hands ~70cm from wall Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec Frog stance 5 x ~2-4 sec - Balance feeling more consistent Pullups 3 x 7
Tuesday Wall handstands 5 x ~10sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off paralletes. Frog stance 5 x ~3-4 sec Weighted pushups 3 x 15 x ~15kg
Friday Wall handstands 5 x ~10 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off parralletes Frog stance 5 x ~3-5 sec
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~12sec - Hands ~60cm from wall.
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~12 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~4 sec - On chairs. Main issue is maintaining scapular depression while in tuck. Frog stance 5 x ~3-5 sec
Tuesday Wall handstands 5 x ~15sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~1 sec - On floor. Very hard. Need to lean back more. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~4-5 sec - Still unable to straighten arms.
Monday Dips 3 x 8 - Focusing on keeping strict scapular depression throughout the movement. Pullups 5 x 6 Weighted plank 3 x ~30 seconds x 25kg Wall handstands 3 x ~15 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall.
Thursday Wall handstands 5 x ~15sec - Hands ~50cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~1 sec - On floor. Hard. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~4 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~20sec - Hands ~45cm from wall. Pushed myself hard with these. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~2 sec - On floor. Still trouble maintaining scapular depression while in tuck. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~5 sec - Off chairs Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~18sec - Hands ~45cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~6 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec - Still slight bend in arms but trying my best to straighten them. Weighted Decline pushups 5 x 10 x 20kg Plank 2 x ~60 sec Side planks 3 x ~30 sec each side
So I've made some progress, albeit fairly slow. My biggest issue at this point is maintaining scapular depression/retraction while in a tuck. I think this is my main issue preventing me from doing the tuck L-sits from the floor. Also I'm missing some hip internal rotation which makes it hard to bring my knees together during the tuck.
The wall handstands are progressing well enough. Need to keep bringing my hands closer to the wall though.
Kind of stuck on frog stance. Balance has improved but yf I try the same thing with arms straight(momentarily forgot the name) I feel my legs pressing on my elbows which feels kind of dangerous. I've tried the tuck version but am having a lot of trouble maintaining strength while in compression. I might post a video about this tomorrow as I think it will help me explain the trouble I'm having better.
I've got basically no commitments over the next 3 weeks (then I'm off to Japan and Hong Kong for most of December) so I plan to be a lot more consistent with my workouts. Hopefully I can make some decent progress in this time and then progress more slowly through my holiday.
3 things.
1. You're not making progress because you're been skipping routines.
The #1 thing about getting results in anything is being consistent with actually doing it.
2. You're not doing enough exercises. Handstands, L-sits, planks are all ok.... but they're generally supplementary skill and core type work.
You're not getting meat exercises that really develop your strength consistently like pullups, dips, planche, etc. You need to be doing these types of exercise 3x every week.
2 push and 2 pull at least every workout.
3. Not enough volume. You're not getting enough volume to progress with statics such as frog stand.
Working on handstands and I'm feeling some discomfort/pressure in my lower back. On the spine probably two inches above iliac crest? Not sure if that helps without video or anything. Am messing something up form wise? I'm trying to keep my whole body tight.
On November 15 2012 09:54 Ludrik wrote: Okay I'm finally getting around to my update post. So I've been focusing more on BW stuff for about the past 7 weeks. However during this time life got really hectic and l neglected exercise for a while. So I've only done ~2 BW workouts per week rather than the 3 that I was planning.
Here's a basic outline of my progression. I've progressed in terms of time of holds, but not to more advanced exercises:
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~5 sec - Hands ~75cm from wall. Frog stance 5 x ~1-3 sec - Struggling with balance. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Unable to do from floor. Just off chairs. Weighted pushups 3 x 15 x 10kg
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~10 sec - Hands ~70cm from wall Frog stance 5 x ~1-3 sec Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - On chairs. Very hard. Forward rolls ~5 minutes
Friday Wall handstands 5 x ~12 sec - Hands ~70cm from wall Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec Frog stance 5 x ~2-4 sec - Balance feeling more consistent Pullups 3 x 7
Tuesday Wall handstands 5 x ~10sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off paralletes. Frog stance 5 x ~3-4 sec Weighted pushups 3 x 15 x ~15kg
Friday Wall handstands 5 x ~10 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off parralletes Frog stance 5 x ~3-5 sec
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~12sec - Hands ~60cm from wall.
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~12 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~4 sec - On chairs. Main issue is maintaining scapular depression while in tuck. Frog stance 5 x ~3-5 sec
Tuesday Wall handstands 5 x ~15sec - Hands ~60cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~1 sec - On floor. Very hard. Need to lean back more. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~3 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~4-5 sec - Still unable to straighten arms.
Monday Dips 3 x 8 - Focusing on keeping strict scapular depression throughout the movement. Pullups 5 x 6 Weighted plank 3 x ~30 seconds x 25kg Wall handstands 3 x ~15 sec - Hands ~60cm from wall.
Thursday Wall handstands 5 x ~15sec - Hands ~50cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~1 sec - On floor. Hard. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~4 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec
Monday Wall handstands 5 x ~20sec - Hands ~45cm from wall. Pushed myself hard with these. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~2 sec - On floor. Still trouble maintaining scapular depression while in tuck. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~5 sec - Off chairs Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec
Wednesday Wall handstands 5 x ~18sec - Hands ~45cm from wall. Tuck L-sit 5 x ~6 sec - Off parraletes Frog stance 5 x ~6 sec - Still slight bend in arms but trying my best to straighten them. Weighted Decline pushups 5 x 10 x 20kg Plank 2 x ~60 sec Side planks 3 x ~30 sec each side
So I've made some progress, albeit fairly slow. My biggest issue at this point is maintaining scapular depression/retraction while in a tuck. I think this is my main issue preventing me from doing the tuck L-sits from the floor. Also I'm missing some hip internal rotation which makes it hard to bring my knees together during the tuck.
The wall handstands are progressing well enough. Need to keep bringing my hands closer to the wall though.
Kind of stuck on frog stance. Balance has improved but yf I try the same thing with arms straight(momentarily forgot the name) I feel my legs pressing on my elbows which feels kind of dangerous. I've tried the tuck version but am having a lot of trouble maintaining strength while in compression. I might post a video about this tomorrow as I think it will help me explain the trouble I'm having better.
I've got basically no commitments over the next 3 weeks (then I'm off to Japan and Hong Kong for most of December) so I plan to be a lot more consistent with my workouts. Hopefully I can make some decent progress in this time and then progress more slowly through my holiday.
3 things.
1. You're not making progress because you're been skipping routines.
The #1 thing about getting results in anything is being consistent with actually doing it.
2. You're not doing enough exercises. Handstands, L-sits, planks are all ok.... but they're generally supplementary skill and core type work.
You're not getting meat exercises that really develop your strength consistently like pullups, dips, planche, etc. You need to be doing these types of exercise 3x every week.
2 push and 2 pull at least every workout.
3. Not enough volume. You're not getting enough volume to progress with statics such as frog stand.
Based on what you were doing I wouldn't expect to make much progress because you're actually not doing much and you're not doing it consistently...
Thanks for the advice and I 100% agree with your assessment that I haven't really done much. I've been really inconsistent lately and exercise was the first thing to go when I got busy.
Time to refocus and get my shit together. Thanks again for the feedback.
On November 16 2012 08:57 mordek wrote: Working on handstands and I'm feeling some discomfort/pressure in my lower back. On the spine probably two inches above iliac crest? Not sure if that helps without video or anything. Am messing something up form wise? I'm trying to keep my whole body tight.
I'd need a vid
Usually people get low back pain if they allow their lower back to arch, especially if you're going with back to the wall instead of stomach to wall.
Hi everyone, Ive spent the last hour mulling over the fitness threads here on TL.net and I have learned some things, but I still have some questions and would appreciate some specific help. For starters, I'm a mess, I,m too fat for running and I don't really have access to a gym. I am at 110 kg and really need to get into shape. I have access to a pair of 9 pound dumbbells (are these enough for some weight loss, or do I need to go heavier ?) a lifting bench with 2x15 kg weights a heavy punching bag and a bike. Ive started to watch my diet ( no snacks, no soda, no candy ).
I was wondering if I can get any work done with the stuff I have, and how should I space out my exercise, for the last week (since I started) Ive been doing 7 different dumbbell workouts in 3x8 sets, taking around 30 minutes with some crunches in between each set, ( I was thinking of adding in deadlifts, standing biceps curls and flat bench presses, should I wait or start right away?) I do this every other day. Every day I did either a hour of brisk walking or half an hour of cycling. Should I space these differently ? I can use all the advice I can get, and I have all day to work out.
On November 23 2012 07:54 besiger wrote: Hi everyone, Ive spent the last hour mulling over the fitness threads here on TL.net and I have learned some things, but I still have some questions and would appreciate some specific help. For starters, I'm a mess, I,m too fat for running and I don't really have access to a gym. I am at 110 kg and really need to get into shape. I have access to a pair of 9 pound dumbbells (are these enough for some weight loss, or do I need to go heavier ?) a lifting bench with 2x15 kg weights a heavy punching bag and a bike. Ive started to watch my diet ( no snacks, no soda, no candy ).
I was wondering if I can get any work done with the stuff I have, and how should I space out my exercise, for the last week (since I started) Ive been doing 7 different dumbbell workouts in 3x8 sets, taking around 30 minutes with some crunches in between each set, ( I was thinking of adding in deadlifts, standing biceps curls and flat bench presses, should I wait or start right away?) I do this every other day. Every day I did either a hour of brisk walking or half an hour of cycling. Should I space these differently ? I can use all the advice I can get, and I have all day to work out.
Thank you.
I think the most important thing someone can do who is trying to lose weight is to really focus on your diet. It's good that you started cutting out some of the bad stuff but you really gotta go all out with it to see good results. It's good to cut out soda but how about cutting out all beverages besides water? Cut down on your daily caloric intake. Figure out how much you average and what you should be taking in. And keep those calories clean ones. Check into various diets like Paleo, ect.
On November 23 2012 07:54 besiger wrote: Hi everyone, Ive spent the last hour mulling over the fitness threads here on TL.net and I have learned some things, but I still have some questions and would appreciate some specific help. For starters, I'm a mess, I,m too fat for running and I don't really have access to a gym. I am at 110 kg and really need to get into shape. I have access to a pair of 9 pound dumbbells (are these enough for some weight loss, or do I need to go heavier ?) a lifting bench with 2x15 kg weights a heavy punching bag and a bike. Ive started to watch my diet ( no snacks, no soda, no candy ).
I was wondering if I can get any work done with the stuff I have, and how should I space out my exercise, for the last week (since I started) Ive been doing 7 different dumbbell workouts in 3x8 sets, taking around 30 minutes with some crunches in between each set, ( I was thinking of adding in deadlifts, standing biceps curls and flat bench presses, should I wait or start right away?) I do this every other day. Every day I did either a hour of brisk walking or half an hour of cycling. Should I space these differently ? I can use all the advice I can get, and I have all day to work out.
Thank you.
I'm not sure why you're putting this in the bodyweight fitness thread unless you want to do bodyweight fitness?
Weight loss is pretty much all diet... you gotta fix that to loes the weight.
For exercise, I would suggest doing anything that makes you motivated to stick with exercise. Weights, bodyweight, and/or running are all good.
It depends on what your goals are though. What are your goals with exercise? Strength? Muscle? etc.?
On November 23 2012 07:54 besiger wrote: Hi everyone, Ive spent the last hour mulling over the fitness threads here on TL.net and I have learned some things, but I still have some questions and would appreciate some specific help. For starters, I'm a mess, I,m too fat for running and I don't really have access to a gym. I am at 110 kg and really need to get into shape. I have access to a pair of 9 pound dumbbells (are these enough for some weight loss, or do I need to go heavier ?) a lifting bench with 2x15 kg weights a heavy punching bag and a bike. Ive started to watch my diet ( no snacks, no soda, no candy ).
I was wondering if I can get any work done with the stuff I have, and how should I space out my exercise, for the last week (since I started) Ive been doing 7 different dumbbell workouts in 3x8 sets, taking around 30 minutes with some crunches in between each set, ( I was thinking of adding in deadlifts, standing biceps curls and flat bench presses, should I wait or start right away?) I do this every other day. Every day I did either a hour of brisk walking or half an hour of cycling. Should I space these differently ? I can use all the advice I can get, and I have all day to work out.
Thank you.
I'm not sure why you're putting this in the bodyweight fitness thread unless you want to do bodyweight fitness?
Weight loss is pretty much all diet... you gotta fix that to loes the weight.
For exercise, I would suggest doing anything that makes you motivated to stick with exercise. Weights, bodyweight, and/or running are all good.
It depends on what your goals are though. What are your goals with exercise? Strength? Muscle? etc.?
Ah, this is just a thread for using your own body as weights, sorry about that, my bad, I had like 5 threads opened that I found in the fitness initiative 2012 thread and miss posted. My first and foremost goal is dropping weight, and after that strength/muscle. The bodyweight exercises seem really interesting though, I'm worried id bang up my joints or back being overweight as I am so thats out of the picture for now. I guess nutrition is the biggest part I need to do then, and I will keep cycling and using my dumbbells.
Just one more question and ill stop cluttering up your thread. Is it detrimental to use the dumbbells every day, or should I give it a days rest.
On November 23 2012 07:54 besiger wrote: Hi everyone, Ive spent the last hour mulling over the fitness threads here on TL.net and I have learned some things, but I still have some questions and would appreciate some specific help. For starters, I'm a mess, I,m too fat for running and I don't really have access to a gym. I am at 110 kg and really need to get into shape. I have access to a pair of 9 pound dumbbells (are these enough for some weight loss, or do I need to go heavier ?) a lifting bench with 2x15 kg weights a heavy punching bag and a bike. Ive started to watch my diet ( no snacks, no soda, no candy ).
I was wondering if I can get any work done with the stuff I have, and how should I space out my exercise, for the last week (since I started) Ive been doing 7 different dumbbell workouts in 3x8 sets, taking around 30 minutes with some crunches in between each set, ( I was thinking of adding in deadlifts, standing biceps curls and flat bench presses, should I wait or start right away?) I do this every other day. Every day I did either a hour of brisk walking or half an hour of cycling. Should I space these differently ? I can use all the advice I can get, and I have all day to work out.
Thank you.
I'm not sure why you're putting this in the bodyweight fitness thread unless you want to do bodyweight fitness?
Weight loss is pretty much all diet... you gotta fix that to loes the weight.
For exercise, I would suggest doing anything that makes you motivated to stick with exercise. Weights, bodyweight, and/or running are all good.
It depends on what your goals are though. What are your goals with exercise? Strength? Muscle? etc.?
Ah, this is just a thread for using your own body as weights, sorry about that, my bad, I had like 5 threads opened that I found in the fitness initiative 2012 thread and miss posted. My first and foremost goal is dropping weight, and after that strength/muscle. The bodyweight exercises seem really interesting though, I'm worried id bang up my joints or back being overweight as I am so thats out of the picture for now. I guess nutrition is the biggest part I need to do then, and I will keep cycling and using my dumbbells.
Just one more question and ill stop cluttering up your thread. Is it detrimental to use the dumbbells every day, or should I give it a days rest.
yep, bodyweight exercises are great for training strength, coordination, balance, etc, but you gotta be relatively in-shape first. if they;re done correctly, they should strengthen your joints, not damage them.
as for dumbbells, that depends on your workout, which depends on your goals. if your goal is to gain strength/muscle, your dumbbells are probably too light to be of any significant benefit. if you are training strength, you'll want to give your muscles a rest before working them again. if you're using dumbbells for cardio/endurance, you can probably train 6 days a week and be fine.
you can definitely use them to help a low-intensity cardio routine or high intensity interval training routine. HIIT is great for burning calories (note that most of your fat-loss will still be from your diet, but HIIT helps).
On November 23 2012 07:54 besiger wrote: Hi everyone, Ive spent the last hour mulling over the fitness threads here on TL.net and I have learned some things, but I still have some questions and would appreciate some specific help. For starters, I'm a mess, I,m too fat for running and I don't really have access to a gym. I am at 110 kg and really need to get into shape. I have access to a pair of 9 pound dumbbells (are these enough for some weight loss, or do I need to go heavier ?) a lifting bench with 2x15 kg weights a heavy punching bag and a bike. Ive started to watch my diet ( no snacks, no soda, no candy ).
I was wondering if I can get any work done with the stuff I have, and how should I space out my exercise, for the last week (since I started) Ive been doing 7 different dumbbell workouts in 3x8 sets, taking around 30 minutes with some crunches in between each set, ( I was thinking of adding in deadlifts, standing biceps curls and flat bench presses, should I wait or start right away?) I do this every other day. Every day I did either a hour of brisk walking or half an hour of cycling. Should I space these differently ? I can use all the advice I can get, and I have all day to work out.
Thank you.
I'm not sure why you're putting this in the bodyweight fitness thread unless you want to do bodyweight fitness?
Weight loss is pretty much all diet... you gotta fix that to loes the weight.
For exercise, I would suggest doing anything that makes you motivated to stick with exercise. Weights, bodyweight, and/or running are all good.
It depends on what your goals are though. What are your goals with exercise? Strength? Muscle? etc.?
Ah, this is just a thread for using your own body as weights, sorry about that, my bad, I had like 5 threads opened that I found in the fitness initiative 2012 thread and miss posted. My first and foremost goal is dropping weight, and after that strength/muscle. The bodyweight exercises seem really interesting though, I'm worried id bang up my joints or back being overweight as I am so thats out of the picture for now. I guess nutrition is the biggest part I need to do then, and I will keep cycling and using my dumbbells.
Just one more question and ill stop cluttering up your thread. Is it detrimental to use the dumbbells every day, or should I give it a days rest.
It's fine... I just meant that you'd probably get more responses in one of the main threads like the fitness initiative rather than this one since it's very low trafficked. If you want more you can repost over there.
Dropping weight = diet. Fix your nutrition. Check out the nutritional sticky for that... two main methods.
Bodyweight isn't harder on the joints than DBs especially if you scale it down. If you're willing to use things like knee pushups, bands for pullups, bodyweight squats, etc you can easily be doing bodyweight workout routines. If you can get to a gym with a barbell that would be ideal though -- I would suggest doing Starting Strength if that was the case. You should check out Malinor's transformation from 300+ lbs down to under 200 with heavy barbell lifting.
I've switched my L-sit to having my hands turned backward in preparation for the more advanced phases. Is it normal to have a lot of pressure on the lateral sides of my wrists? Also to have my hold time cut by 50% after switching?
On December 05 2012 08:59 mordek wrote: I've switched my L-sit to having my hands turned backward in preparation for the more advanced phases. Is it normal to have a lot of pressure on the lateral sides of my wrists? Also to have my hold time cut by 50% after switching?
Yeah, lateral pressure is common... move your hands closer together if you need to.
On December 05 2012 08:59 mordek wrote: I've switched my L-sit to having my hands turned backward in preparation for the more advanced phases. Is it normal to have a lot of pressure on the lateral sides of my wrists? Also to have my hold time cut by 50% after switching?
Yeah, lateral pressure is common... move your hands closer together if you need to.
Also, yes, it's harder with hands backwards
Ok, that makes sense. The painfulness will go away after more training though right?
Browsing Eat Move Improve and stumbled across the skill guidelines. I just saw L-sit walks :O This stuff gets me excited
Also I think my muscle-up is weak in the dip portion of the movement but I'm able to do a deep dip with parallel bars at 1.4bw. Do I need to be working on dips from support position. I tried it once by jumping up on the bar and getting to support position and it killed my elbows. Is there a smoother transition or accesory work I should be working on or just try to do some dips in support position as I'm able?
On December 14 2012 23:42 mordek wrote: Browsing Eat Move Improve and stumbled across the skill guidelines. I just saw L-sit walks :O This stuff gets me excited
Also I think my muscle-up is weak in the dip portion of the movement but I'm able to do a deep dip with parallel bars at 1.4bw. Do I need to be working on dips from support position. I tried it once by jumping up on the bar and getting to support position and it killed my elbows. Is there a smoother transition or accesory work I should be working on or just try to do some dips in support position as I'm able?
Are you doing muscle up on bar or rings?
It makes a significant difference, especially if you are using momentum or not
I have been working on Dragon Flags lately. I do mostly negatives and had a couple of reps which could probably considered to be nearly acceptable (I still have to bent a little bit at the hips to get myself up again, and although I assume that I hit 'depth', I cannot know for certain).
Anyway, this is considered to be mostly a core exercise, but for me the exercise is hardest on my biceps. I cannot do many reps because the biceps is working so hard that I feel I have to be careful. So my question is just if I am supposed to feel it in my biceps or if that is a hint that I'm doing something wrong. If so, I'll post a video soon for some form advice.
On December 15 2012 08:14 Malinor wrote: I have been working on Dragon Flags lately. I do mostly negatives and had a couple of reps which could probably considered to be nearly acceptable (I still have to bent a little bit at the hips to get myself up again, and although I assume that I hit 'depth', I cannot know for certain).
Anyway, this is considered to be mostly a core exercise, but for me the exercise is hardest on my biceps. I cannot do many reps because the biceps is working so hard that I feel I have to be careful. So my question is just if I am supposed to feel it in my biceps or if that is a hint that I'm doing something wrong. If so, I'll post a video soon for some form advice.
If you want a critique, post a vid!
And yes, the top arm you may feel has a lot of biceps work on it, especially if you are bending it. The "real" flag I guess has straight arm components and relies all on shoulder... but bent arm would still be impressive as hell for someone your weight.
Also, a bent top arm you would expect that there's a lot of biceps tension since that arm is pretty much holding your whole weight up...
On December 14 2012 23:42 mordek wrote: Browsing Eat Move Improve and stumbled across the skill guidelines. I just saw L-sit walks :O This stuff gets me excited
Also I think my muscle-up is weak in the dip portion of the movement but I'm able to do a deep dip with parallel bars at 1.4bw. Do I need to be working on dips from support position. I tried it once by jumping up on the bar and getting to support position and it killed my elbows. Is there a smoother transition or accesory work I should be working on or just try to do some dips in support position as I'm able?
Are you doing muscle up on bar or rings?
It makes a significant difference, especially if you are using momentum or not
Bar and yes to momentum. I just want to do one by any means symmetrically for now.
On December 14 2012 23:42 mordek wrote: Browsing Eat Move Improve and stumbled across the skill guidelines. I just saw L-sit walks :O This stuff gets me excited
Also I think my muscle-up is weak in the dip portion of the movement but I'm able to do a deep dip with parallel bars at 1.4bw. Do I need to be working on dips from support position. I tried it once by jumping up on the bar and getting to support position and it killed my elbows. Is there a smoother transition or accesory work I should be working on or just try to do some dips in support position as I'm able?
Are you doing muscle up on bar or rings?
It makes a significant difference, especially if you are using momentum or not
Bar and yes to momentum. I just want to do one by any means symmetrically for now.
Dip on bar is different from on parallel bars.
However, if you can dip and pullup 1.4x bodyweight then you should be able to do a muscle up with momentum.
Post a vid if you want a critique... main thing is you have to pull around the bar and then push your chest over the bar like a muscle up on rings.
1. It is a fully searchable, digital PDF that can be loaded on an eReader (Nook, Kindle, Kobo, etc.), iPad, Tablet or viewed on the computer. It has no digital copyright protection and is a non-encrypted, fully commentable, bookmarkable, copy/pasteable PDF for $49.95. The only thing disabled is page extraction. An excel version of the Overcoming Gravity charts is also provided. The main file is approximately 100 MB, and the excel 28 KB. Any future changes or corrections are provided at no cost.
2. For those who have previously purchased the book, PM me a picture of your book and I'll shoot you the coupon code for 25% off.
3. Coupon code "holidaycheer" without the quotations is a available until January 31st for $5 off. Coupons are not stackable from what I'm aware.
4. Overcoming Gravity 2nd edition is planned for late 2013/early 2014 tentatively. OG digital edition was my priority project right now, so I'm just about to start constructing and editing materials for OG2. Feel free to give me any suggestions or comments.
Anyway I'm here to provide advice to you guys still.
Thanks for all the work you do both here and on reddit Eshlow! I really appreciate it, TL H&F was my first introduction to fitness and health, and it's totaly changed my life throughout the last year!
Also, why does OG only have pullups in the program? How much value do you think there is in mixing in chin ups?
On December 24 2012 08:31 GuiltyJerk wrote: Thanks for all the work you do both here and on reddit Eshlow! I really appreciate it, TL H&F was my first introduction to fitness and health, and it's totaly changed my life throughout the last year!
Also, why does OG only have pullups in the program? How much value do you think there is in mixing in chin ups?
What do you mean?
Generally pullups are more useful because of the hand position (rock climbing, military, etc.) but chinups are fine to do as well.
I would say do pullups or chinups depending on your goal(s). I typically usually do just chins but started doing more pullups as rock climbing
On December 24 2012 09:40 mordek wrote: Very cool Are you having this version professionally edited/proofread?
Ah yeah, I made a list of stuff but I didn't update here yet!
These are the proposed changes for OG, subject to more changes if there are more good ideas that I can easily implement:
1. all new and more detailed illustrations (3d model) for the nuances of each movement 2. professional editing, layout, copyedits, etc. 3. Content wise I'm going to revise recommendations and make more newbie friendly including: 4. separate beginner/intermediate/advanced type sections + programming options so newbies don't get thrown everything at once 5. more detail on programming according to other activities/sports and for those who are busy and have very little workout time 6. revisions/additions to the charts, and exercise technique including scapular positioning 7. more talk on specific mobility/flexibility details and programming that 8. cleaning up misunderstandings such as skill work, making prilepin tables easier to use, etc 9. SOME legs options (although not true progressions) but it should give many people ideas of how they can train with the legs at home if they don't have access to a barbell. 10. my personal general strength recommendations for progressions to use 11. cheaper price (through cleaning up page count and eliminating specific injury info as it's clear that most people don't use it -- mobility/flexibility will still be there)
If you've read Starting Strength (1st and 2nd edition) it will hopefully be like that where the 2nd edition can stand along for at least half a decade before any revisions are made.
I am pretty sure my pec minor is very tight from sitting at a desk 16 hours a day. My shoulders are coming forward very much so. I try to remind myself to better my posture but it isnt going all too well.
Whenever I do chin-ups I feel little to no lat activity, can my shoulders be causing that or is it purely form? I have been stalling pretty hard on chinups
On December 24 2012 09:40 mordek wrote: Very cool Are you having this version professionally edited/proofread?
Ah yeah, I made a list of stuff but I didn't update here yet!
These are the proposed changes for OG, subject to more changes if there are more good ideas that I can easily implement: + Show Spoiler +
1. all new and more detailed illustrations (3d model) for the nuances of each movement 2. professional editing, layout, copyedits, etc. 3. Content wise I'm going to revise recommendations and make more newbie friendly including: 4. separate beginner/intermediate/advanced type sections + programming options so newbies don't get thrown everything at once 5. more detail on programming according to other activities/sports and for those who are busy and have very little workout time 6. revisions/additions to the charts, and exercise technique including scapular positioning 7. more talk on specific mobility/flexibility details and programming that 8. cleaning up misunderstandings such as skill work, making prilepin tables easier to use, etc 9. SOME legs options (although not true progressions) but it should give many people ideas of how they can train with the legs at home if they don't have access to a barbell. 10. my personal general strength recommendations for progressions to use 11. cheaper price (through cleaning up page count and eliminating specific injury info as it's clear that most people don't use it -- mobility/flexibility will still be there)
If you've read Starting Strength (1st and 2nd edition) it will hopefully be like that where the 2nd edition can stand along for at least half a decade before any revisions are made
Awesome! Those all sound like positive things. It looks like you caught a lot of the weaknesses of the 1st edition. Let me know if there's any way to help out
On December 24 2012 11:39 KOVU wrote: I am pretty sure my pec minor is very tight from sitting at a desk 16 hours a day. My shoulders are coming forward very much so. I try to remind myself to better my posture but it isnt going all too well.
Whenever I do chin-ups I feel little to no lat activity, can my shoulders be causing that or is it purely form? I have been stalling pretty hard on chinups
Work on inverted rows and really focus on activating lats/scapulas retractors
Use the doorway stretch and relaxing deep breathing to help with the tight chest and force your scapulas backward
On December 24 2012 09:40 mordek wrote: Very cool Are you having this version professionally edited/proofread?
Ah yeah, I made a list of stuff but I didn't update here yet!
These are the proposed changes for OG, subject to more changes if there are more good ideas that I can easily implement: + Show Spoiler +
1. all new and more detailed illustrations (3d model) for the nuances of each movement 2. professional editing, layout, copyedits, etc. 3. Content wise I'm going to revise recommendations and make more newbie friendly including: 4. separate beginner/intermediate/advanced type sections + programming options so newbies don't get thrown everything at once 5. more detail on programming according to other activities/sports and for those who are busy and have very little workout time 6. revisions/additions to the charts, and exercise technique including scapular positioning 7. more talk on specific mobility/flexibility details and programming that 8. cleaning up misunderstandings such as skill work, making prilepin tables easier to use, etc 9. SOME legs options (although not true progressions) but it should give many people ideas of how they can train with the legs at home if they don't have access to a barbell. 10. my personal general strength recommendations for progressions to use 11. cheaper price (through cleaning up page count and eliminating specific injury info as it's clear that most people don't use it -- mobility/flexibility will still be there)
If you've read Starting Strength (1st and 2nd edition) it will hopefully be like that where the 2nd edition can stand along for at least half a decade before any revisions are made
Awesome! Those all sound like positive things. It looks like you caught a lot of the weaknesses of the 1st edition. Let me know if there's any way to help out
On December 24 2012 11:39 KOVU wrote: I am pretty sure my pec minor is very tight from sitting at a desk 16 hours a day. My shoulders are coming forward very much so. I try to remind myself to better my posture but it isnt going all too well.
Whenever I do chin-ups I feel little to no lat activity, can my shoulders be causing that or is it purely form? I have been stalling pretty hard on chinups
Work on inverted rows and really focus on activating lats/scapulas retractors
Use the doorway stretch and relaxing deep breathing to help with the tight chest and force your scapulas backward
On December 24 2012 09:40 mordek wrote: Very cool Are you having this version professionally edited/proofread?
Ah yeah, I made a list of stuff but I didn't update here yet!
These are the proposed changes for OG, subject to more changes if there are more good ideas that I can easily implement: + Show Spoiler +
1. all new and more detailed illustrations (3d model) for the nuances of each movement 2. professional editing, layout, copyedits, etc. 3. Content wise I'm going to revise recommendations and make more newbie friendly including: 4. separate beginner/intermediate/advanced type sections + programming options so newbies don't get thrown everything at once 5. more detail on programming according to other activities/sports and for those who are busy and have very little workout time 6. revisions/additions to the charts, and exercise technique including scapular positioning 7. more talk on specific mobility/flexibility details and programming that 8. cleaning up misunderstandings such as skill work, making prilepin tables easier to use, etc 9. SOME legs options (although not true progressions) but it should give many people ideas of how they can train with the legs at home if they don't have access to a barbell. 10. my personal general strength recommendations for progressions to use 11. cheaper price (through cleaning up page count and eliminating specific injury info as it's clear that most people don't use it -- mobility/flexibility will still be there)
If you've read Starting Strength (1st and 2nd edition) it will hopefully be like that where the 2nd edition can stand along for at least half a decade before any revisions are made
Awesome! Those all sound like positive things. It looks like you caught a lot of the weaknesses of the 1st edition. Let me know if there's any way to help out
If you have any suggestions I missed let me know
I've been meaning to give it another read through over my break, I'll try to keep a list if I think of anything.
I'm pretty stoke my handstand is getting pretty steady for 5+ tapping off the wall. It's definitely starting to feel different.
I need some assistance here. My sister's boyfriend wants to start going to the gym again. He is not at all interested in bodybuilding or strength training, he just wants to lose his small/ non-existent gut and, more important, be healthy/ have a healthy posture. Of course whenever he trains he is doing machines. I don't really feel that I have a good chance to convince him to do squats and deadlifts (he is 6'7 and not so sportive anyway, so without a trainer it could be ugly), but I let myself go and said "everyone should do pull ups and dips, it is the best exercises you can do", which is something I truly believe in. Now he wants me to provide some reading for him so that he can see that my statement has some merits and I did not pull it out of my ass.
So if someone could provide me with a good introductory reading that explains why machines are inefficient and why these movements are superior, that would be really helpful. Most things I found are just about squats and deadlifts when talking about compound exercises, and also about muscle mass and body building. And since he is not interested, a T-Nation article might not do the trick here. He is an academic, so it might even help if it is a bit technical. But basically anything focussing on compound/bw-exercises which is not posted on some BB-site or with hideous use of language will do. Maybe eshlow knows a place, I wasn't extremely succesful thus far.
I always liked this article: http://archive.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness-is-a-lie/ But it's not heavy on the technical side unfortunately. It's also more general but explains a little of why there's machines in gyms despite them being inferior. Machines have their value when it comes to isolation but if his goal is being more fit free weights help train you for real-life situations and this should be intuitive to him.
On December 27 2012 02:07 Malinor wrote: I need some assistance here. My sister's boyfriend wants to start going to the gym again. He is not at all interested in bodybuilding or strength training, he just wants to lose his small/ non-existent gut and, more important, be healthy/ have a healthy posture. Of course whenever he trains he is doing machines. I don't really feel that I have a good chance to convince him to do squats and deadlifts (he is 6'7 and not so sportive anyway, so without a trainer it could be ugly), but I let myself go and said "everyone should do pull ups and dips, it is the best exercises you can do", which is something I truly believe in. Now he wants me to provide some reading for him so that he can see that my statement has some merits and I did not pull it out of my ass.
So if someone could provide me with a good introductory reading that explains why machines are inefficient and why these movements are superior, that would be really helpful. Most things I found are just about squats and deadlifts when talking about compound exercises, and also about muscle mass and body building. And since he is not interested, a T-Nation article might not do the trick here. He is an academic, so it might even help if it is a bit technical. But basically anything focussing on compound/bw-exercises which is not posted on some BB-site or with hideous use of language will do. Maybe eshlow knows a place, I wasn't extremely succesful thus far.
Good posture you need good compounds man.
Compounds allow him to get in and out of the gym quick as well
Good bang for the buck.
I don't know of any good particular posture related sites talking about compounds vs other stuff unfortunately. :\
Catching up on some reading and just noticed the eatmoveimprove series on training while travelling. A month too late for me though! Still makes a good read though.
On January 05 2013 20:33 Ludrik wrote: Catching up on some reading and just noticed the eatmoveimprove series on training while travelling. A month too late for me though! Still makes a good read though.
Got a 20 second L-sit for the first time with my hands pointed behind me. Spending most of wall handstands not touching the wall too I almost have the tuck planche. Been keeping one big toe on the ground and trying to lift it but the most I've had it up is for 1-2 seconds and the entire hold only 7s or so. Looking forward to more progress!
Also, frog stand to handstand fascinates me... I've almost completed it. And by almost I mean get my legs straight and arms almost straight before falling over XD
On January 08 2013 19:28 b_unnies wrote: Is it possible to substitute a suspension trainer for rings since I already have one and I live in dorm so I can't install rings
Yeah, that's probably fine although probably not as comfortable as rings when supported.
On January 09 2013 09:00 mordek wrote: Got a 20 second L-sit for the first time with my hands pointed behind me. Spending most of wall handstands not touching the wall too I almost have the tuck planche. Been keeping one big toe on the ground and trying to lift it but the most I've had it up is for 1-2 seconds and the entire hold only 7s or so. Looking forward to more progress!
Also, frog stand to handstand fascinates me... I've almost completed it. And by almost I mean get my legs straight and arms almost straight before falling over XD
On January 08 2013 19:28 b_unnies wrote: Is it possible to substitute a suspension trainer for rings since I already have one and I live in dorm so I can't install rings
Yeah, that's probably fine although probably not as comfortable as rings when supported.
is it also ok if i do them on while being supported on a door or is that dangerous
On January 08 2013 19:28 b_unnies wrote: Is it possible to substitute a suspension trainer for rings since I already have one and I live in dorm so I can't install rings
Yeah, that's probably fine although probably not as comfortable as rings when supported.
is it also ok if i do them on while being supported on a door or is that dangerous
A pullup bar on a door frame?
or on a door itself?
Door itself is probably dangerous unless it's super sturdy...
On January 08 2013 19:28 b_unnies wrote: Is it possible to substitute a suspension trainer for rings since I already have one and I live in dorm so I can't install rings
Yeah, that's probably fine although probably not as comfortable as rings when supported.
is it also ok if i do them on while being supported on a door or is that dangerous
A pullup bar on a door frame?
or on a door itself?
Door itself is probably dangerous unless it's super sturdy...
Any of you guys got any suggestions on what I can do for some added difficulty on my L Pullups? What I've been doing for the past couple of weeks was just adding a rep per set per week, but I'm up to 3x7 now and I'm not really feeling particularly strained. I'd really prefer something that doesn't involve adding on weight to myself, since I do them right after I do heavy weighted chinups and I'm not really keen on doing more weighted volume.
On January 10 2013 21:51 Luxae wrote: Any of you guys got any suggestions on what I can do for some added difficulty on my L Pullups? What I've been doing for the past couple of weeks was just adding a rep per set per week, but I'm up to 3x7 now and I'm not really feeling particularly strained. I'd really prefer something that doesn't involve adding on weight to myself, since I do them right after I do heavy weighted chinups and I'm not really keen on doing more weighted volume.
Do you have the book for progressions or?
You can do wide grip L-pullups and the work progressively towards OAC depending on what you have available
On January 11 2013 01:21 mordek wrote: Any supplemental work I can add to help the transition from frog to tuck planche? My shoulders just can't hold my weight for more than a few seconds.
Straight arm frog stand, or more basic strength work, or band assisted tuck planche
On January 10 2013 21:51 Luxae wrote: Any of you guys got any suggestions on what I can do for some added difficulty on my L Pullups? What I've been doing for the past couple of weeks was just adding a rep per set per week, but I'm up to 3x7 now and I'm not really feeling particularly strained. I'd really prefer something that doesn't involve adding on weight to myself, since I do them right after I do heavy weighted chinups and I'm not really keen on doing more weighted volume.
Do you have the book for progressions or?
You can do wide grip L-pullups and the work progressively towards OAC depending on what you have available
I'm not really familiar with any bodyweight training books other than CC, I just decided I wanted to make some progress on L pullups after a couple of years of just doing for fun when I felt like it. What's an OAC?
On January 10 2013 21:51 Luxae wrote: Any of you guys got any suggestions on what I can do for some added difficulty on my L Pullups? What I've been doing for the past couple of weeks was just adding a rep per set per week, but I'm up to 3x7 now and I'm not really feeling particularly strained. I'd really prefer something that doesn't involve adding on weight to myself, since I do them right after I do heavy weighted chinups and I'm not really keen on doing more weighted volume.
Do you have the book for progressions or?
You can do wide grip L-pullups and the work progressively towards OAC depending on what you have available
I'm not really familiar with any bodyweight training books other than CC, I just decided I wanted to make some progress on L pullups after a couple of years of just doing for fun when I felt like it. What's an OAC?
On January 10 2013 21:51 Luxae wrote: Any of you guys got any suggestions on what I can do for some added difficulty on my L Pullups? What I've been doing for the past couple of weeks was just adding a rep per set per week, but I'm up to 3x7 now and I'm not really feeling particularly strained. I'd really prefer something that doesn't involve adding on weight to myself, since I do them right after I do heavy weighted chinups and I'm not really keen on doing more weighted volume.
Do you have the book for progressions or?
You can do wide grip L-pullups and the work progressively towards OAC depending on what you have available
I'm not really familiar with any bodyweight training books other than CC, I just decided I wanted to make some progress on L pullups after a couple of years of just doing for fun when I felt like it. What's an OAC?
One armed chin I believe
Oh. Well I'm not really looking to make the pull part of the exercise harder, just the core work part.
On January 10 2013 21:51 Luxae wrote: Any of you guys got any suggestions on what I can do for some added difficulty on my L Pullups? What I've been doing for the past couple of weeks was just adding a rep per set per week, but I'm up to 3x7 now and I'm not really feeling particularly strained. I'd really prefer something that doesn't involve adding on weight to myself, since I do them right after I do heavy weighted chinups and I'm not really keen on doing more weighted volume.
Do you have the book for progressions or?
You can do wide grip L-pullups and the work progressively towards OAC depending on what you have available
I'm not really familiar with any bodyweight training books other than CC, I just decided I wanted to make some progress on L pullups after a couple of years of just doing for fun when I felt like it. What's an OAC?
Oh, I assumed you were using the book I had written (aka in my sig).
On January 10 2013 21:51 Luxae wrote: Any of you guys got any suggestions on what I can do for some added difficulty on my L Pullups? What I've been doing for the past couple of weeks was just adding a rep per set per week, but I'm up to 3x7 now and I'm not really feeling particularly strained. I'd really prefer something that doesn't involve adding on weight to myself, since I do them right after I do heavy weighted chinups and I'm not really keen on doing more weighted volume.
Do you have the book for progressions or?
You can do wide grip L-pullups and the work progressively towards OAC depending on what you have available
I'm not really familiar with any bodyweight training books other than CC, I just decided I wanted to make some progress on L pullups after a couple of years of just doing for fun when I felt like it. What's an OAC?
One armed chin I believe
Oh. Well I'm not really looking to make the pull part of the exercise harder, just the core work part.
Maybe try holding a light dumbell between your feet. It'll still be adding external weight but if you do 7 reps it'll likely be difficult enough for a while with just a small weight compared to your weighted chins.
I have started to train more bodyweight exercises lately and i am loving it! My body feels not only stronger, but also much more flexible.
Still i am far away from my current goal, planche and free handstand and therefore i would welcome some advice regarding planning and setting correct exercises regarding my strenght level and progression.
3.Static exercise Elevated bent leg middle split hold: to failure x 4~6 L - position on dip bar: to failure x 4~6 Handstand on wall, 5cm to wall: 4 x to failure 2 core exercises to my choice
p.s.: when would i be able to execute proper manna and free handstand push ups from now?
On January 21 2013 17:54 GrazerRinge wrote: Hello fellow TL members!
I have started to train more bodyweight exercises lately and i am loving it! My body feels not only stronger, but also much more flexible.
Still i am far away from my current goal, planche and free handstand and therefore i would welcome some advice regarding planning and setting correct exercises regarding my strenght level and progression.
3.Static exercise Elevated bent leg middle split hold: to failure x 4~6 L - position on dip bar: to failure x 4~6 Handstand on wall, 5cm to wall: 4 x to failure 2 core exercises to my choice
p.s.: when would i be able to execute proper manna and free handstand push ups from now?
If you want to achieve planche I suggest following gymnasticbodies.com approach. Just by doing alot of pushup and dips you are not going to achieve planche. Currently from your program I see that you are working more on endurance then strenght and that is big problem because in order to do gymnastic type movements(front lever, planche) you have to work on strenght, straight arm strenght to be specific. Firstly, don't train to failure it is unnecessary, when you are doing static holds you should want to do one hold for 60s, ofcourse most likely you can't do that in one set so you do as many sets as you need in order to achieve total work of 60 seconds, each set should last 50-70% of your max hold. For example if you can do L-sit for 30 seconds, you do 4 sets of 15 seconds holds.The rest should be 30-45s between sets. Secondly, you need to start doing harder variations on your pushups and dips, as I can see normal dips are to easy for you now, so you should use any other variation that you find dificult(you can find bunch of variations in building gymnastic bodie book or their forums). Next, focus on strenght as I said before doing bunch of pushups won't help you achieve planche, because by doing a lot of pushups you will only build endurance and a bit of bent arm strenght. If you want to build strenght you have to do exercise that is hard enough for you to do 3-5 reps for 3-5 sets. Now even if you do hard exercise to build bent arm strenght in won't really help to achieve planche, thats where you have to train your straight arm strenght. How to build it? Well what it comes down to is doing exercise with straight arm, for planche it is important to master planche leans before doing any serious planche work, after you have good planche lean, you can start doing holds(frog,tuch, adv.tuck straddle and so on). Now I can't give a whole workout on how to achieve your goals but following WODs(workout of the day) on gymnasticbodies.com is a good idea. Also before you workout it is highly recommended that you do these holds: hollow hold,PB support, deadhang, arch hold, plank, reverse plank, german hang. Those are necccesary if you want to achieve gymnastic type movements. Anyway, I can't really write everything in one post so If you have any questions regarding BW exercises or programming for planche/front lever you can PM me.
On January 21 2013 17:54 GrazerRinge wrote: Hello fellow TL members!
I have started to train more bodyweight exercises lately and i am loving it! My body feels not only stronger, but also much more flexible.
Still i am far away from my current goal, planche and free handstand and therefore i would welcome some advice regarding planning and setting correct exercises regarding my strenght level and progression.
3.Static exercise Elevated bent leg middle split hold: to failure x 4~6 L - position on dip bar: to failure x 4~6 Handstand on wall, 5cm to wall: 4 x to failure 2 core exercises to my choice
p.s.: when would i be able to execute proper manna and free handstand push ups from now?
If your goal is strength, then what you are doing is fine as long as you keep increasing the difficulty of your exercises.
I would absolutely NOT do the 100 pushups program though. It's a waste of time.
I would also start working handstand after your warm up.
Eliminate the 2 core exercises -- you already have a bunch of core exercises.
1.Warming up: linear warm up, streching (mostly arms), 10min cycle / running with avg. 110bhm
Handstand on wall, 5cm to wall: 5-10 total attempts, NOT to failure, working on increasing duration. So for example, if your max is say 30s then do multiple sets of 20-25s to maximize time inverted with shorter rest periods.
2.Push / Pull exercise: Planche work pull ups with knee up, 8~5 x 6 Dips: 10 x 3 Inverted rows or bent over rows
3.Static exercise Elevated bent leg middle split hold: to failure x 4~6 L - position on dip bar: to failure x 4~6
Currently I'm doing progressions for Handstand pushup Planche Manna Front lever Along with chin-up and pull-ups. Am I missing anything (other than legs, doing that with weights)
I've started doing some basic shoulder mobility exercises. Working as a developer/being cs student made my shoulders so immobile which is bad concering I started playing more volleyball lately. I researched a little and got fascinated with bodyweight exercises.
Do any of you guys could help me to track a good pair of rings (I live in Poland mind you)? Quick googling didn't help much and I am not to keen on shipping from the US. Also, what is the minimal ceiling height to install the rings if i am 184cm tall (6'). Is there such a thing at all? Sorry if these questions are newbie-like but well, I am one.
On January 24 2013 08:30 mordek wrote: Currently I'm doing progressions for Handstand pushup Planche Manna Front lever Along with chin-up and pull-ups. Am I missing anything (other than legs, doing that with weights)
Nah, your goals are your goals.
Although if you want to work up to one arm chin or cross I would suggest back lever.
On January 24 2013 22:08 myzael wrote: I've started doing some basic shoulder mobility exercises. Working as a developer/being cs student made my shoulders so immobile which is bad concering I started playing more volleyball lately. I researched a little and got fascinated with bodyweight exercises.
Do any of you guys could help me to track a good pair of rings (I live in Poland mind you)? Quick googling didn't help much and I am not to keen on shipping from the US. Also, what is the minimal ceiling height to install the rings if i am 184cm tall (6'). Is there such a thing at all? Sorry if these questions are newbie-like but well, I am one.
European Amazons might have some available...
Hmmm, I'm not sure if some companies like Rogue also sell in Europe yet. It might be worth a shot check them out.
You can hang them from a doorway pullup bar at the minimum, otherwise if you have a high ceiling that works too
On January 24 2013 08:30 mordek wrote: Currently I'm doing progressions for Handstand pushup Planche Manna Front lever Along with chin-up and pull-ups. Am I missing anything (other than legs, doing that with weights)
Nah, your goals are your goals.
Although if you want to work up to one arm chin or cross I would suggest back lever.
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Am I bordering on trying too much at once?
On January 24 2013 08:30 mordek wrote: Currently I'm doing progressions for Handstand pushup Planche Manna Front lever Along with chin-up and pull-ups. Am I missing anything (other than legs, doing that with weights)
Nah, your goals are your goals.
Although if you want to work up to one arm chin or cross I would suggest back lever.
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Am I bordering on trying too much at once?
I don't think so if you aren't doing upperbody barbell training as well. Just keep in mind that for most people things like manna and planche are super long term goals. Once you get closer to your goals you might have to prioritize but the earlier progressions should be doable/attainable at the same time. (Sorry to chime in, I just like that the bw thread is alive again. EMI forum is pretty inactive and it's nice to have a community for this stuff. I don't like reddit...)
On January 24 2013 08:30 mordek wrote: Currently I'm doing progressions for Handstand pushup Planche Manna Front lever Along with chin-up and pull-ups. Am I missing anything (other than legs, doing that with weights)
Nah, your goals are your goals.
Although if you want to work up to one arm chin or cross I would suggest back lever.
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Am I bordering on trying too much at once?
I don't think so if you aren't doing upperbody barbell training as well. Just keep in mind that for most people things like manna and planche are super long term goals. Once you get closer to your goals you might have to prioritize but the earlier progressions should be doable/attainable at the same time. (Sorry to chime in, I just like that the bw thread is alive again. EMI forum is pretty inactive and it's nice to have a community for this stuff. I don't like reddit...)
Yep pretty much this.
Actually a forum dying is actually a good thing in some respects.
Everyone who was initially part of Performance Menu is now gone and moved on with their lives since we learned most of what we need to know for whatever our goals were. The more you know and can do for yourself, the less you need to talk about it.
That's the whole point of the "teach a man to fish" method that OG is about.
I like to see posts in the thread because hopefully there's some knowledge to glean from it
I do upperbody barbell work as well... I haven't experienced any symptoms of overtraining yet but I think I may be getting close. I will try to be aware. I'm pretty much looking for holds/lifts stalling for an extended period of time?
On December 15 2012 08:14 Malinor wrote: I have been working on Dragon Flags lately. I do mostly negatives and had a couple of reps which could probably considered to be nearly acceptable (I still have to bent a little bit at the hips to get myself up again, and although I assume that I hit 'depth', I cannot know for certain).
Anyway, this is considered to be mostly a core exercise, but for me the exercise is hardest on my biceps. I cannot do many reps because the biceps is working so hard that I feel I have to be careful. So my question is just if I am supposed to feel it in my biceps or if that is a hint that I'm doing something wrong. If so, I'll post a video soon for some form advice.
If you want a critique, post a vid!
And yes, the top arm you may feel has a lot of biceps work on it, especially if you are bending it. The "real" flag I guess has straight arm components and relies all on shoulder... but bent arm would still be impressive as hell for someone your weight.
Also, a bent top arm you would expect that there's a lot of biceps tension since that arm is pretty much holding your whole weight up...
Good that I took a video, clearly I'm not quite there yet. I still miss some depth (tried to go really deep in one set, but couldn't get back up) and bend a little at the hips. Critique and training suggestions are obviously welcome. Doyweight is 102,8kg
Looks pretty solid to me. Just don't lose your body tension... squeeze your stomach, glutes, quads, etc... otherwise you will just fall out of it when going close to your limit.
I've been doing BW spesific training for a while now, and recently got quite aggressive in trying to achieve a muscle up on rings, same week i also did wallstand press negatives for the first time. After last saturday (where i also recetly went for some short max effort straddle backlever holds) ive had a nagging pain down both my arms that start at the shoulders and kinda wrap around my elbows and down to my forearms. The pain is aggrevated when i do any hard pull up, dip variation and muscle ups. The pain persists for 5-15 minutes after i do a varitation of those movements and its really a dull lingering pain that gets progressivly better
Logically i took some time off now from my workouts, but i really dont want too long of a hiatus as ive been progressing quite nicely and i do tumbling/general gymnastics with a group once a week. As i've never experienced this kind of pain esp in both arms at the same time im wondering if you had any idea what it could be?
From my own logical standpoint i think i either overloaded my joints and conective tissue with too much before they could actually handle it or im just insanely fatigued with a deep soreness in my forearms. Note that im currently at a calorie deficit aswell so recovery has been limited at best.
Would appriciate any input you could offer as im treading in new territory here with BW training
On January 27 2013 03:35 Snapplecakes wrote: Eshlow:
I've been doing BW spesific training for a while now, and recently got quite aggressive in trying to achieve a muscle up on rings, same week i also did wallstand press negatives for the first time. After last saturday (where i also recetly went for some short max effort straddle backlever holds) ive had a nagging pain down both my arms that start at the shoulders and kinda wrap around my elbows and down to my forearms. The pain is aggrevated when i do any hard pull up, dip variation and muscle ups. The pain persists for 5-15 minutes after i do a varitation of those movements and its really a dull lingering pain that gets progressivly better
Logically i took some time off now from my workouts, but i really dont want too long of a hiatus as ive been progressing quite nicely and i do tumbling/general gymnastics with a group once a week. As i've never experienced this kind of pain esp in both arms at the same time im wondering if you had any idea what it could be?
From my own logical standpoint i think i either overloaded my joints and conective tissue with too much before they could actually handle it or im just insanely fatigued with a deep soreness in my forearms. Note that im currently at a calorie deficit aswell so recovery has been limited at best.
Would appriciate any input you could offer as im treading in new territory here with BW training
Can you fill out the form of the main post on the injuries thread so I have more information
Any advice to stop a rocking motion while training the front lever? Also these things feel brutal on the shoulders. I'm making headway and it doesn't really hurt but just feels rough. Back lever I feel like I could will myself to stay on an extra 5 to 10 seconds if it was like life or death but front lever nope.
Did a couple full back lever negatives :D at least i think that's what you'd call it. Straight but more head down instead of parallel and slowly going to parallel then feet towards the ground.
On February 06 2013 08:49 mordek wrote: Any advice to stop a rocking motion while training the front lever? Also these things feel brutal on the shoulders. I'm making headway and it doesn't really hurt but just feels rough. Back lever I feel like I could will myself to stay on an extra 5 to 10 seconds if it was like life or death but front lever nope.
Did a couple full back lever negatives :D at least i think that's what you'd call it. Straight but more head down instead of parallel and slowly going to parallel then feet towards the ground.
What rocking motion?
If you lower into it from inverted hang or slowly let out your legs from inverted hang or lift yourself into the position you won't swing..... you'll only swing if you try to jump into the position.
On February 06 2013 08:49 mordek wrote: Any advice to stop a rocking motion while training the front lever? Also these things feel brutal on the shoulders. I'm making headway and it doesn't really hurt but just feels rough. Back lever I feel like I could will myself to stay on an extra 5 to 10 seconds if it was like life or death but front lever nope.
Did a couple full back lever negatives :D at least i think that's what you'd call it. Straight but more head down instead of parallel and slowly going to parallel then feet towards the ground.
What rocking motion?
If you lower into it from inverted hang or slowly let out your legs from inverted hang or lift yourself into the position you won't swing..... you'll only swing if you try to jump into the position.
Quite some time ago, after reading Cloud's blog and looking more into the book mentioned (Solitary Fitness), I ended up purchasing it in hopes of getting a healthier lifestyle. The approach of the book was very intriguing, it revolved around getting "fit" / "on shape" without the necessity of a gym.
So, after taking the initials steps for a healthier lifestyle in combination with the routine given by the book, I decided to read some reviews of the book on Amazon. Among all the critiques and suggestions given, there were a few books which stood out, Overcoming Gravity, Convict Conditioning, Never Gymless and You are your own Gym. After doing a quick search on all of them, they turned out to be books with more or less the similar approach, physical fitness without the necessity of a gym, for people lack of equipment or on a budget.
At first I didn't take those books into much consideration, but I ended up succumbing to curiosity… Which to my surprise, after a lot of Google searching, I ended up on this overlooked (by me) section on TL, and discovering that the author of one of the mentioned famous books was part of this community.
Ever since then, new names, terminologies and information have been filling my brain to the point of overload. I have yet to understand everything but from what I've gathered so far, the book in which I'm following my current routine (Solitary Fitness) consist of stretches, isometric exercises and calisthenics (haven't read the whole book yet). I'm only on the first initial days of the routine (day 3 out of 32), as you progress it looks like additional sets will be added. The current routine consist of single set of 10 reps (if calisthenic exercise) and 10 reps holding up to 10 seconds (if isometric exercise, 20 reps depending on body part) and on latter stages, the author gives indications like "Beat your record" or "To exhaustion". The book has isometric exercises for almost every body part and the only resting day is sunday.
•How effective are isometric exercises and this routine in general compared to those mentioned on the other books and FAQs on Reddit? •As a beginner, is it recommended to use isometrics at early stages? Or should I implement them after I gain more experience?
Main objective is weight-loss and later muscle gain with bodyweight exercises (no access to a gym), I've incorporated cardio (running) on rest days, building endurance before going for a more intensive one (sprinting and variations).
Also, should I purchase YAYOG / Never Gymless, or just wait until having more experience and go directly with OG?
Best Regards
·Edit: due to my limited knowledge on the topic and difficulty identifying the type of exercise (plus not having finished the book), I might have left certain type of exercise out from Solitary Fitness, since most of the exercises are named as "Solitary nº" (Solitary one, ...). There are isotonic exercises such as lifting chairs or alike objects, abdominal exercises consisting on breathing, inhale and exhale (i.e blowing out heavily to lift a light object) or neck exercises such as spitting water furiously...
•How effective are isometric exercises and this routine in general compared to those mentioned on the other books and FAQs on Reddit?
I don't know what isometrics that one uses.... in regard to the edit those are generally not very useful for building strength/hypertrophy.
Generally speaking, unless your goal is a particular isometric (such as say planche) full range of motion exercises tend to be better than the isometrics for strength and hypertrophy.
•As a beginner, is it recommended to use isometrics at early stages? Or should I implement them after I gain more experience?
Depends on your goals.
Main objective is weight-loss and later muscle gain with bodyweight exercises (no access to a gym), I've incorporated cardio (running) on rest days, building endurance before going for a more intensive one (sprinting and variations).
Weight loss is about 85-90% diet. Focus your efforts there.
Also, should I purchase YAYOG / Never Gymless, or just wait until having more experience and go directly with OG?
Depends on what your goals are, generally.
OG teaches you how to construct a routine towards strength and hypertrophy.
YAYOG has it's own workouts. Never Gymless is more about hybrid strength/conditioning type workouts.
On January 24 2013 22:08 myzael wrote: I've started doing some basic shoulder mobility exercises. Working as a developer/being cs student made my shoulders so immobile which is bad concering I started playing more volleyball lately. I researched a little and got fascinated with bodyweight exercises.
Do any of you guys could help me to track a good pair of rings (I live in Poland mind you)? Quick googling didn't help much and I am not to keen on shipping from the US. Also, what is the minimal ceiling height to install the rings if i am 184cm tall (6'). Is there such a thing at all? Sorry if these questions are newbie-like but well, I am one.
European Amazons might have some available...
Hmmm, I'm not sure if some companies like Rogue also sell in Europe yet. It might be worth a shot check them out.
You can hang them from a doorway pullup bar at the minimum, otherwise if you have a high ceiling that works too
Rogue sells rings in europe (rogueeurope.eu) but they're expensive. Wood rings are $72 here in America, and they're listed as 80 Euros (incl. tax? That's cool to calculate tax online.). There's also fewer options for the europe site (for now) than the US site.
On January 24 2013 22:08 myzael wrote: I've started doing some basic shoulder mobility exercises. Working as a developer/being cs student made my shoulders so immobile which is bad concering I started playing more volleyball lately. I researched a little and got fascinated with bodyweight exercises.
Do any of you guys could help me to track a good pair of rings (I live in Poland mind you)? Quick googling didn't help much and I am not to keen on shipping from the US. Also, what is the minimal ceiling height to install the rings if i am 184cm tall (6'). Is there such a thing at all? Sorry if these questions are newbie-like but well, I am one.
European Amazons might have some available...
Hmmm, I'm not sure if some companies like Rogue also sell in Europe yet. It might be worth a shot check them out.
You can hang them from a doorway pullup bar at the minimum, otherwise if you have a high ceiling that works too
Rogue sells rings in europe (rogueeurope.eu) but they're expensive. Wood rings are $72 here in America, and they're listed as 80 Euros (incl. tax? That's cool to calculate tax online.). There's also fewer options for the europe site (for now) than the US site.
Typically there's a markup for Eur usually so it's weird like that.
•How effective are isometric exercises and this routine in general compared to those mentioned on the other books and FAQs on Reddit?
I don't know what isometrics that one uses.... in regard to the edit those are generally not very useful for building strength/hypertrophy.
Generally speaking, unless your goal is a particular isometric (such as say planche) full range of motion exercises tend to be better than the isometrics for strength and hypertrophy.
•As a beginner, is it recommended to use isometrics at early stages? Or should I implement them after I gain more experience?
Depends on your goals.
Main objective is weight-loss and later muscle gain with bodyweight exercises (no access to a gym), I've incorporated cardio (running) on rest days, building endurance before going for a more intensive one (sprinting and variations).
Weight loss is about 85-90% diet. Focus your efforts there.
Also, should I purchase YAYOG / Never Gymless, or just wait until having more experience and go directly with OG?
Depends on what your goals are, generally.
OG teaches you how to construct a routine towards strength and hypertrophy.
YAYOG has it's own workouts. Never Gymless is more about hybrid strength/conditioning type workouts.
Thanks for answering, Steven.
I already started focusing on diet about a week and half ago, eating healthier, and since last week the size of the portions.
I read the extract about Isometrics from Ross Enamait's Never Gymless and I like much more his approach than the one in Solitary Fitness.
Last week I dropped the routine from Solitary Fitness and started the rank beginner one (not intermediate beginner) from BodyweightFitness' FAQ. So far I manage to finish all 3 workouts, although with a little trouble in the 3rd set from the pushing and pulling exercises (pushups and rows), but no problem on the squats, I'm thinking about changing the bodyweight squats with bw deep steps or one leg squats.
Have been reading here and there, and learning a lot recently, but I still have a few questions (they might be answered from the FAQs, hope you don't mind).
My routine is M/W/F and cardio (running) is T/Th/Sat, •Is it better to separate workout days and cardio days? (I think in one of the FAQs they mention you can do both on the same day but the progression is harder, therefore they recommend to do it on separate days? i.e resting day after the day of workout)
•Is it necessary to do some light cardio before the routine? As part of the warm up and stretching exercise. (some burpees, star jumps and alike exercise)
•Depending on the type of routine (strength, hypertrophy, endurance), are there differences on how it affects weight loss? (I think you mentioned on how aiming for strength will also increase hypertrophy and endurance, but will aiming for endurance be more beneficial for weight loss since there are more repetitions?)
•The current beginner routine lacks of core exercise, I know how you said crunches and sit ups are bad, will it be better to add one at this stage or just wait until further stages?
Funny, how this weekend after reading all those entries about advices for beginners to take extra caution on the wrists, and as I made sure to take that advice, today during the handstand 5 mins practice I felt a little twitch on my left wrist (back hand maybe a little below the thumb, in the colateral ligament or nearby)... It didn't hurt at the beginning but as I continued the routine it increased in annoyance, I still finished the routine and later put some ice on it. There's not "much" (or none) pain while moving and doing certain motions with the wrist, only when you press that part there's a little pain. I think I'll apply some chinese oil / ointment before sleep and see how it goes since tomorrow is rest day.
I think you mentioned earlier about the 2nd edition of the book planned to be released at the end of this year or beginning of next year, if that's the case it might take quite a while and purchasing the current edition at the end of this month will be more beneficial for me.
•How effective are isometric exercises and this routine in general compared to those mentioned on the other books and FAQs on Reddit?
I don't know what isometrics that one uses.... in regard to the edit those are generally not very useful for building strength/hypertrophy.
Generally speaking, unless your goal is a particular isometric (such as say planche) full range of motion exercises tend to be better than the isometrics for strength and hypertrophy.
•As a beginner, is it recommended to use isometrics at early stages? Or should I implement them after I gain more experience?
Depends on your goals.
Main objective is weight-loss and later muscle gain with bodyweight exercises (no access to a gym), I've incorporated cardio (running) on rest days, building endurance before going for a more intensive one (sprinting and variations).
Weight loss is about 85-90% diet. Focus your efforts there.
Also, should I purchase YAYOG / Never Gymless, or just wait until having more experience and go directly with OG?
Depends on what your goals are, generally.
OG teaches you how to construct a routine towards strength and hypertrophy.
YAYOG has it's own workouts. Never Gymless is more about hybrid strength/conditioning type workouts.
Thanks for answering, Steven.
I already started focusing on diet about a week and half ago, eating healthier, and since last week the size of the portions.
I read the extract about Isometrics from Ross Enamait's Never Gymless and I like much more his approach than the one in Solitary Fitness.
Last week I dropped the routine from Solitary Fitness and started the rank beginner one (not intermediate beginner) from BodyweightFitness' FAQ. So far I manage to finish all 3 workouts, although with a little trouble in the 3rd set from the pushing and pulling exercises (pushups and rows), but no problem on the squats, I'm thinking about changing the bodyweight squats with bw deep steps or one leg squats.
Have been reading here and there, and learning a lot recently, but I still have a few questions (they might be answered from the FAQs, hope you don't mind).
My routine is M/W/F and cardio (running) is T/Th/Sat, •Is it better to separate workout days and cardio days? (I think in one of the FAQs they mention you can do both on the same day but the progression is harder, therefore they recommend to do it on separate days? i.e resting day after the day of workout)
Doesn't matter... As long as the cardio is lighter it's probably better on the rest day.
•Is it necessary to do some light cardio before the routine? As part of the warm up and stretching exercise. (some burpees, star jumps and alike exercise)
No, but some people like it for warm up
•Depending on the type of routine (strength, hypertrophy, endurance), are there differences on how it affects weight loss? (I think you mentioned on how aiming for strength will also increase hypertrophy and endurance, but will aiming for endurance be more beneficial for weight loss since there are more repetitions?)
Strength/hypertrophy are better for weight loss because they are stimuli for (1) conserving muscle mass and (2) they promote muscle gain which is an energy expensive process. High reps is terrible for weight loss.... not enough intensity to gain muscle and doesn't burn any significant amount of energy.
•The current beginner routine lacks of core exercise, I know how you said crunches and sit ups are bad, will it be better to add one at this stage or just wait until further stages?
I prefer L-sit progressions
Funny, how this weekend after reading all those entries about advices for beginners to take extra caution on the wrists, and as I made sure to take that advice, today during the handstand 5 mins practice I felt a little twitch on my left wrist (back hand maybe a little below the thumb, in the colateral ligament or nearby)... It didn't hurt at the beginning but as I continued the routine it increased in annoyance, I still finished the routine and later put some ice on it. There's not "much" (or none) pain while moving and doing certain motions with the wrist, only when you press that part there's a little pain. I think I'll apply some chinese oil / ointment before sleep and see how it goes since tomorrow is rest day.
Do some wrist mobility + strengthening
I think you mentioned earlier about the 2nd edition of the book planned to be released at the end of this year or beginning of next year, if that's the case it might take quite a while and purchasing the current edition at the end of this month will be more beneficial for me.
Answers above. All of these might help for more info...
Just placed the order of the book, hope it arrives by the end of next week... Also bought a kitchen scale along the book, to finally start counting macros and calories.
I plan to start or already semi-started a paleo diet with moderate amount of carbs during training days, while keeping it low on rest days. Looking more into diets, I learned about 'Intermittent Fasting' (and their variations including the popular one from LG) and thought about giving it a try with the paleo diet. I wasn't so sure at the beginning since the LG's method included Weights (which I don't have access to nor am interested) and BCAAs... Later I found out about BCAAs being optional (and the debate surrounding it) and more interestingly, about people mixing IF with calisthenics.
All these good stories about calisthenics + IF giving great results, but all I've seen so far are people with very good level and at advanced stage of bodyweight exercises (very far from what I'm doing), with exercises probably comparable to the intensive one from weights.
I was wondering if IF could be of any use with my current beginner routine... maybe adding more sets? adding more exercises? Not that the current one I'm doing is very intensive, but there's also the problem if I'm able to do the things added being more sets, reps or exercise... I don't really mind about the possible muscle loss from the weight loss, as long as I can gain strength and keep progressing on the routine.
On March 01 2013 07:27 Namunelbo wrote: Thanks, there's so much to learn everyday.
Just placed the order of the book, hope it arrives by the end of next week... Also bought a kitchen scale along the book, to finally start counting macros and calories.
I plan to start or already semi-started a paleo diet with moderate amount of carbs during training days, while keeping it low on rest days. Looking more into diets, I learned about 'Intermittent Fasting' (and their variations including the popular one from LG) and thought about giving it a try with the paleo diet. I wasn't so sure at the beginning since the LG's method included Weights (which I don't have access to nor am interested) and BCAAs... Later I found out about BCAAs being optional (and the debate surrounding it) and more interestingly, about people mixing IF with calisthenics.
All these good stories about calisthenics + IF giving great results, but all I've seen so far are people with very good level and at advanced stage of bodyweight exercises (very far from what I'm doing), with exercises probably comparable to the intensive one from weights.
I was wondering if IF could be of any use with my current beginner routine... maybe adding more sets? adding more exercises? Not that the current one I'm doing is very intensive, but there's also the problem if I'm able to do the things added being more sets, reps or exercise... I don't really mind about the possible muscle loss from the weight loss, as long as I can gain strength and keep progressing on the routine.
IF on its own isn't magic, it's just a way to make diet adherence easier for some people (arbitrarily deciding when you're 'allowed' to eat, helpful for former fatties like me) and also lets you eat bigger meals while maintaining a caloric deficit if you want to drop weight.
You can bulk or cut with IF the same as with any other diet. However, you have a better chance of seeing continued strength gains if you calorie cycle- higher calorie on workout days, lower calorie on rest days. That's part of what makes LG so productive, drives muscle growth (or at least prevents muscle loss) while maintaining consistent fat lost, and satiety through what essentially are mini cheat days every week. That's what I personally like about LG
But if you just start fasting 16 hours per day and don't change anything else regarding your diet/training, your results/progress won't see much if any difference in all likelihood. Definitely worth a shot to see if it can work for you though reddit.com/r/leangains is a wonderful resource for all Leangains type questions.
Tried some L-sits on my dip bar and it's hard as hell to hold above parallel. Glad I my power rack has a dip attachment even though my shoulders are too crappy for dips.
Eshlow, how would you structure a simple L-sit progression? I can hold it above parallel for a few seconds maybe while shaking massively lol Is this a good progression to follow?
From what I know that's a pretty starndard progression to use. I don't agree with having to hold 60s before moving up and if you're eventually going to be doing them on the floor then hand placement will matter. Fingers pointing back is the hardest but worth it if you ever want to progress to manna. If you've never even tried L-sit before and could do it legs parallel and your shoulder and back form is ok then I would maybe start straight with straight legs, the shaking will lessen as you get used to the exercise. I don't see any point in teaching your body to hold legs below parallel for 60s when you can already hold them above parallel, because that's what your're really aiming for.
On March 01 2013 07:27 Namunelbo wrote: Thanks, there's so much to learn everyday.
Just placed the order of the book, hope it arrives by the end of next week... Also bought a kitchen scale along the book, to finally start counting macros and calories.
I plan to start or already semi-started a paleo diet with moderate amount of carbs during training days, while keeping it low on rest days. Looking more into diets, I learned about 'Intermittent Fasting' (and their variations including the popular one from LG) and thought about giving it a try with the paleo diet. I wasn't so sure at the beginning since the LG's method included Weights (which I don't have access to nor am interested) and BCAAs... Later I found out about BCAAs being optional (and the debate surrounding it) and more interestingly, about people mixing IF with calisthenics.
All these good stories about calisthenics + IF giving great results, but all I've seen so far are people with very good level and at advanced stage of bodyweight exercises (very far from what I'm doing), with exercises probably comparable to the intensive one from weights.
I was wondering if IF could be of any use with my current beginner routine... maybe adding more sets? adding more exercises? Not that the current one I'm doing is very intensive, but there's also the problem if I'm able to do the things added being more sets, reps or exercise... I don't really mind about the possible muscle loss from the weight loss, as long as I can gain strength and keep progressing on the routine.
IF on its own isn't magic, it's just a way to make diet adherence easier for some people (arbitrarily deciding when you're 'allowed' to eat, helpful for former fatties like me) and also lets you eat bigger meals while maintaining a caloric deficit if you want to drop weight.
You can bulk or cut with IF the same as with any other diet. However, you have a better chance of seeing continued strength gains if you calorie cycle- higher calorie on workout days, lower calorie on rest days. That's part of what makes LG so productive, drives muscle growth (or at least prevents muscle loss) while maintaining consistent fat lost, and satiety through what essentially are mini cheat days every week. That's what I personally like about LG
But if you just start fasting 16 hours per day and don't change anything else regarding your diet/training, your results/progress won't see much if any difference in all likelihood. Definitely worth a shot to see if it can work for you though reddit.com/r/leangains is a wonderful resource for all Leangains type questions.
The IF method LG uses, caught my attention since the fasting and feeding window were so similar to my schedule of eating (skipping breakfast since middle school days), so I thought about giving it a try, and with the addition of a non-strict paleo diet I thought it was necessary to take breakfast until I read about IF and LG in general.
I was planning on trying a +10%/-20~30% (T·Days/R·Days), but later saw people doing a caloric deficit everyday (like -30%/-30%), which made me wonder if the caloric plus on training days was necessary to preserve / gain hypertrophy and strength while cutting... But the thing I'm most concerned about is if the type of bodyweight (beginner) exercises I'm doing right now, will be of any use even with IF and the caloric plus on training days... Since most of what I've seen about calisthenics + IF without the supplemental BCAAs, are people doing higher level / more advanced calisthenics...
On March 01 2013 08:54 GuiltyJerk wrote: and satiety through what essentially are mini cheat days every week
What do you mean with this? Are there cheat days or you mean the days with +n% are like cheat days since you're allowed to eat more? Also, do / can you fast on rest days? (since most of the days or everyday I skip breakfast...) What do you think about the deficit (e.g -20%/-20%) for both days? Can you preserve / gain even if it's a deficit on training days? And lastly, how is your progress so far with IF?
On March 01 2013 07:27 Namunelbo wrote: Thanks, there's so much to learn everyday.
Just placed the order of the book, hope it arrives by the end of next week... Also bought a kitchen scale along the book, to finally start counting macros and calories.
I plan to start or already semi-started a paleo diet with moderate amount of carbs during training days, while keeping it low on rest days. Looking more into diets, I learned about 'Intermittent Fasting' (and their variations including the popular one from LG) and thought about giving it a try with the paleo diet. I wasn't so sure at the beginning since the LG's method included Weights (which I don't have access to nor am interested) and BCAAs... Later I found out about BCAAs being optional (and the debate surrounding it) and more interestingly, about people mixing IF with calisthenics.
All these good stories about calisthenics + IF giving great results, but all I've seen so far are people with very good level and at advanced stage of bodyweight exercises (very far from what I'm doing), with exercises probably comparable to the intensive one from weights.
I was wondering if IF could be of any use with my current beginner routine... maybe adding more sets? adding more exercises? Not that the current one I'm doing is very intensive, but there's also the problem if I'm able to do the things added being more sets, reps or exercise... I don't really mind about the possible muscle loss from the weight loss, as long as I can gain strength and keep progressing on the routine.
IF on its own isn't magic, it's just a way to make diet adherence easier for some people (arbitrarily deciding when you're 'allowed' to eat, helpful for former fatties like me) and also lets you eat bigger meals while maintaining a caloric deficit if you want to drop weight.
You can bulk or cut with IF the same as with any other diet. However, you have a better chance of seeing continued strength gains if you calorie cycle- higher calorie on workout days, lower calorie on rest days. That's part of what makes LG so productive, drives muscle growth (or at least prevents muscle loss) while maintaining consistent fat lost, and satiety through what essentially are mini cheat days every week. That's what I personally like about LG
But if you just start fasting 16 hours per day and don't change anything else regarding your diet/training, your results/progress won't see much if any difference in all likelihood. Definitely worth a shot to see if it can work for you though reddit.com/r/leangains is a wonderful resource for all Leangains type questions.
The IF method LG uses, caught my attention since the fasting and feeding window were so similar to my schedule of eating (skipping breakfast since middle school days), so I thought about giving it a try, and with the addition of a non-strict paleo diet I thought it was necessary to take breakfast until I read about IF and LG in general.
I was planning on trying a +10%/-20~30% (T·Days/R·Days), but later saw people doing a caloric deficit everyday (like -30%/-30%), which made me wonder if the caloric plus on training days was necessary to preserve / gain hypertrophy and strength while cutting... But the thing I'm most concerned about is if the type of bodyweight (beginner) exercises I'm doing right now, will be of any use even with IF and the caloric plus on training days... Since most of what I've seen about calisthenics + IF without the supplemental BCAAs, are people doing higher level / more advanced calisthenics...
Well if you're doing lower level calisthenics, then theoretically you're progressing towards the higher end ones, which will take a strength gain, which will be helped by the surplus on training days. Those who are on deficits in both days are just looking to cut faster, possibly at the expense of strength. I found that I compromised my training too much by being at a deficit every day, and it was easier for my sanity to have a (slight) surplus on workout days to ensure steady progress, and then have deficit on rest days. My overall weight loss isn't quite as fast, but I'm having an easier time sticking with it and I'm making pretty good progress on my lifts.
On March 01 2013 08:54 GuiltyJerk wrote: and satiety through what essentially are mini cheat days every week
What do you mean with this? Are there cheat days or you mean the days with +n% are like cheat days since you're allowed to eat more? Also, do / can you fast on rest days? (since most of the days or everyday I skip breakfast...) What do you think about the deficit (e.g -20%/-20%) for both days? Can you preserve / gain even if it's a deficit on training days? And lastly, how is your progress so far with IF?
On the higher calorie training days, you can fit things in that you wouldn't normally be able to in a more strict "diet." You have the leeway on a surplus training day to eat some pizza if you want, or to just have a giant pot of rice (which I love to do). That's what I meant with satiety + sanity.
Do you mean fast all day on rest days? You can, sometimes I have if I'm too lazy to make any food, but doing that too often will really hurt your training IMO. If you mean just the 16 hour fast, then the idea of Leangains is that you do that every day. I personally pretty much do all my eating from like 1-7 so I have an 18 hour fast and 6 hour feeding window, figure out what works for you. Leangains is awesome because of its capacity for personal customization, don't get too caught up in details, make it easy on yourself
And personally I've had excellent progress with it, I've cut some fat, and gained a fair bit of strength doing Leangains, I like it because I get to have some variety (higher calorie days feel really nice after a training session, as well as giving me the above mentioned flexibility to eat what/when I want
My philosophy with LG and IF is that you should find what you like and do that. Some people lose a ton of sleep over how to maintain their fast, or go all crazy if they happen to eat like a half hour early, or lose their shit over not getting all their food in their eating window or something like that. LG is supposed to make life easier, not harder My priority list with it is: Calories>macro distribution>food timing and it's worked really well because I don't have to overthink or overanalyze anything
On March 01 2013 07:27 Namunelbo wrote: Thanks, there's so much to learn everyday.
Just placed the order of the book, hope it arrives by the end of next week... Also bought a kitchen scale along the book, to finally start counting macros and calories.
I plan to start or already semi-started a paleo diet with moderate amount of carbs during training days, while keeping it low on rest days. Looking more into diets, I learned about 'Intermittent Fasting' (and their variations including the popular one from LG) and thought about giving it a try with the paleo diet. I wasn't so sure at the beginning since the LG's method included Weights (which I don't have access to nor am interested) and BCAAs... Later I found out about BCAAs being optional (and the debate surrounding it) and more interestingly, about people mixing IF with calisthenics.
All these good stories about calisthenics + IF giving great results, but all I've seen so far are people with very good level and at advanced stage of bodyweight exercises (very far from what I'm doing), with exercises probably comparable to the intensive one from weights.
I was wondering if IF could be of any use with my current beginner routine... maybe adding more sets? adding more exercises? Not that the current one I'm doing is very intensive, but there's also the problem if I'm able to do the things added being more sets, reps or exercise... I don't really mind about the possible muscle loss from the weight loss, as long as I can gain strength and keep progressing on the routine.
I would not do IF if you are doing any type of low carb.
On March 01 2013 09:17 infinity21 wrote: Tried some L-sits on my dip bar and it's hard as hell to hold above parallel. Glad I my power rack has a dip attachment even though my shoulders are too crappy for dips.
Eshlow, how would you structure a simple L-sit progression? I can hold it above parallel for a few seconds maybe while shaking massively lol Is this a good progression to follow?
Tuck, one leg out, both legs out.... you can even break it up more if you have to.
If you need to use chairs or parallettes go for it. Use the prilepins to gauge your time to move up:
On March 12 2013 10:00 SteelSinger wrote: So assuming one has accomplished everything inside your book, beginner to advanced, beginning to end. How long eshlow would you think that would take?
lol, if you're genetically gifted maybe 1-2 years. Of course, no one is starting from scratch... A couple of my friends know people who never trained in their life and can hop up and do back lever or front lever. That's just winning the genetic lottery. These are the types of guys that could do all this in 1-2 years if they put in the effort.
If you got the super short end of the genetic stick never...
L8-9 should be accomplishable by an under average joe in 10-15 years at the worst, but that's with super consistent training. Average joe probably takes about 4-6 years to reach L8-9.
Gross estimate. Might be +/- more than a couple years here or there.
Im new here but I read your book "Overcoming Gravity" (a masterpiece on BW training) and started with the training progressions. Currently Im doing the level 3-4 dynamic workout (i prefer dynamic work over static holds) for 3 times a week.
It looks lke that:
Warmup Skill work (Lsit,handstand) Muscel up assistance Box Hanstand PU Dips on Rings Pullups on Rings RTO Pushups Rows
I can do now 10 reps for 3 sets for each of these exercices and I have a few questions concerning further progression:
1. I read the part where you compare the strength needed eg. for a OAC is comparable with a 90% BW Pullup. My goals look more like achieving a full front lever pullup, but would it be better to just add weights to my pullups and when I reach a proper amount of strength to do some skill work or should i just take the next progression from your book (level 5 -6) and dont add weights to my pullups ( the same question i have also for dips)?
2. If I will add weigths to pullups which type of pullups should I do to gain the most strength for further progressions? Chinups, Bar Pullups or Ring Pullups
3. If I do weighted Ring dips should I do them with RTO or not?
4. Any tips to progress faster with freestanding Handstand? It just seems it takes ages to hold a freestanding Handstand cause I can keep the balance just for a few seconds . Im afraid now that I come to the point where I can do 10 Wall Hanstandpushups but I wont be able to progress to do them freestanding.
Sorry for the long post, but Im just at the beginning and I dont want to do mistakes already.
Hmm so this whole time I've been doing Back Lever with my palms facing down. Just browsing some stuff on it as I come close to achieving this and I see everyone with hands pronated. Fortunately I came across this on the CrossFit boards as I was writing this post:
Steve Low wrote on August 10, 2010: Hands pronated makes it SLIGHTLY easier, but if you want to work higher level gymnastics strength you need to do it with palms facing down.
Yay! I was worried for a second I learned it wrong/suboptimally.
On March 14 2013 05:35 mordek wrote: Hmm so this whole time I've been doing Back Lever with my palms facing down. Just browsing some stuff on it as I come close to achieving this and I see everyone with hands pronated. Fortunately I came across this on the CrossFit boards as I was writing this post:
Steve Low wrote on August 10, 2010: Hands pronated makes it SLIGHTLY easier, but if you want to work higher level gymnastics strength you need to do it with palms facing down.
Yay! I was worried for a second I learned it wrong/suboptimally.
If you plan on learning more movements (higher level strength) then you did learn it wrong....
You need the elbow conditioning for the hands facing down for things such as one arm pullup, cross, planche, etc.
On March 13 2013 18:20 paulcostin wrote: Hi eshlow,
Im new here but I read your book "Overcoming Gravity" (a masterpiece on BW training) and started with the training progressions. Currently Im doing the level 3-4 dynamic workout (i prefer dynamic work over static holds) for 3 times a week.
It looks lke that:
Warmup Skill work (Lsit,handstand) Muscel up assistance Box Hanstand PU Dips on Rings Pullups on Rings RTO Pushups Rows
I can do now 10 reps for 3 sets for each of these exercices and I have a few questions concerning further progression:
1. I read the part where you compare the strength needed eg. for a OAC is comparable with a 90% BW Pullup. My goals look more like achieving a full front lever pullup, but would it be better to just add weights to my pullups and when I reach a proper amount of strength to do some skill work or should i just take the next progression from your book (level 5 -6) and dont add weights to my pullups ( the same question i have also for dips)?
2. If I will add weigths to pullups which type of pullups should I do to gain the most strength for further progressions? Chinups, Bar Pullups or Ring Pullups
3. If I do weighted Ring dips should I do them with RTO or not?
4. Any tips to progress faster with freestanding Handstand? It just seems it takes ages to hold a freestanding Handstand cause I can keep the balance just for a few seconds . Im afraid now that I come to the point where I can do 10 Wall Hanstandpushups but I wont be able to progress to do them freestanding.
Sorry for the long post, but Im just at the beginning and I dont want to do mistakes already.
Thank you very much
If you can handle that many exercises near the beginning be careful... I typically suggest the 2 push/2 pull because any more and you may develop overuse injuries. So just be aware if you are starting to get any nagging uncomfortableness or pain.
1. Read the one arm chinup training section... it details a bunch of things I think you should know. I typically suggest working up to at elast 50% bw pullup but from there you can start assist OAC or eccentric work, but you can still work it up with weighted pullups too.
2. Chins on bar are typically best, unless you are aiming eventually for a one arm pullup (as opposed to one arm chin)
3. RTO is the best way to progress with strength IMO
4. Lots more practice. Practice your handstand on your off days as well.
Best way to get feedback is from criqitue though... feel free to post a vid.
Let me know if you have any other questions, and don't forget to submit an Amazon review.
On March 14 2013 05:35 mordek wrote: Hmm so this whole time I've been doing Back Lever with my palms facing down. Just browsing some stuff on it as I come close to achieving this and I see everyone with hands pronated. Fortunately I came across this on the CrossFit boards as I was writing this post:
Steve Low wrote on August 10, 2010: Hands pronated makes it SLIGHTLY easier, but if you want to work higher level gymnastics strength you need to do it with palms facing down.
Yay! I was worried for a second I learned it wrong/suboptimally.
If you plan on learning more movements (higher level strength) then you did learn it wrong....
You need the elbow conditioning for the hands facing down for things such as one arm pullup, cross, planche, etc.
Ok, I think one of us is mixed up (probably me ) Your post says palms down is better... which is what I said I had been doing. I get a tad confused when using pronated when your hanging from bar but hopefully this clarifies. When I set up I reach my arms behind to grab the bar. If there was a shelf behind me I could rest my palms on the shelf (not my knuckles) and I grab the bar like this.
Actually simple solution. I do it the opposite of this guy:
Actually i feel some pain after muscle up work in my elbows , so i guess it will be the best to stop it and do some weighted pullups and dips till my muscles and tendons get used to it.
I got it with the OAC progression, but as i wrote OAC are not my primary goal. Im a little confused now cause i dont know if I should start with the next pullup progression which would be for level 5/6, tuck FL pullups or if i should just add weights to the pullups/chinups?
If you recommend weighted Chinups, do you mean they are best for OAC progression or are they also superior to Ring Pullups if I want to learn skills as FL and BL? I also read that Ring pullups are better for shoulder health.
I ll write an review , best book out there for BW training
@mordek: you're doing BL the better way (palms facing down, thumbs pointing outside, not towards eachother like in the picture). Where were you browsing stuff btw? I don't like watching stuff on youtube, most of the stuff I've seen is done with atrocious form and then titled as a high progression =/
@paulcostin: IMO treat tuck FL pullups as a separate rowing/horizontal pulling exercise and not as a progression to regular pullups/chinups, so go with adding weight.
On March 15 2013 00:28 4thHatchery wrote: @mordek: you're doing BL the better way (palms facing down, thumbs pointing outside, not towards eachother like in the picture). Where were you browsing stuff btw? I don't like watching stuff on youtube, most of the stuff I've seen is done with atrocious form and then titled as a high progression =/
@paulcostin: IMO treat tuck FL pullups as a separate rowing/horizontal pulling exercise and not as a progression to regular pullups/chinups, so go with adding weight.
Awesome thanks 4th. I should have thought of which way the thumbs are pointing Just browsing anything tagged back lever. Beastskills, crossfit forums. Just browsing really seeing if I could glean anything.
When doing pullups, how straight should the arms be in terms of ROF? I feel like my ROF is getting worse with weighted pullups, and i'm not sure if that is worse than using a 'full' ROF with less weight. If that makes sense.
I'm also getting extreme shoulder and neck issues on my left side when doing weighted dips, is it common to get some strain (probably not the correct word) when doing BW + more than half BW?
On March 15 2013 00:36 Rixxe wrote: When doing pullups, how straight should the arms be in terms of ROF? I feel like my ROF is getting worse with weighted pullups, and i'm not sure if that is worse than using a 'full' ROF with less weight. If that makes sense.
I'm also getting extreme shoulder and neck issues on my left side when doing weighted dips, is it common to get some strain (probably not the correct word) when doing BW + more than half BW?
Cheers
Are you talking about ROF on the bottom (full extension), or ROF at the top (full lock)? I definitely think you should reduce weight until you can full lock off to your chest as that is a really important part of the pullup when transitioning to a mantle or muscle up. Not sure about extension, although I always go from a fullest hang just because that is the motion in the real world when climbing something. I guess you could stress your shoulders though with enough extra weight, so I'll let eschlow weigh in.
My bad you're right I read it wrong. Hands down is the correct way. Keep it up.
On March 14 2013 22:52 paulcostin wrote: Thanks for the fast reply,
Actually i feel some pain after muscle up work in my elbows , so i guess it will be the best to stop it and do some weighted pullups and dips till my muscles and tendons get used to it.
I got it with the OAC progression, but as i wrote OAC are not my primary goal. Im a little confused now cause i dont know if I should start with the next pullup progression which would be for level 5/6, tuck FL pullups or if i should just add weights to the pullups/chinups?
If you recommend weighted Chinups, do you mean they are best for OAC progression or are they also superior to Ring Pullups if I want to learn skills as FL and BL? I also read that Ring pullups are better for shoulder health.
I ll write an review , best book out there for BW training
1. The transition can be tough on the elbow (as can deep dips). Don't be afraid to take a bit of time off if they continue to be sore.
2. Doesn't matter.
The progressions I prefer for general strength are: ~pullups -> back lever -> some form of weighted pullups/OAC/cross and ~ rows -> front lever pullups.
If I were going to build someone up I would do it like that
On March 15 2013 00:36 Rixxe wrote: When doing pullups, how straight should the arms be in terms of ROF? I feel like my ROF is getting worse with weighted pullups, and i'm not sure if that is worse than using a 'full' ROF with less weight. If that makes sense.
I'm also getting extreme shoulder and neck issues on my left side when doing weighted dips, is it common to get some strain (probably not the correct word) when doing BW + more than half BW?
Cheers
What the heck is ROF?
Full range of motion is what yo want to do, unless you have an injury.
If an exercise is giving you issues I wouldn't do it because if it's painful it can wreck you more if you keep pushing through
Pretty bummed I seem to have pushed too hard and now have a minor strain in what I would guess is my proximal biceps tendon/shoulder (aggravated doing straight arm work, back lever, weighted chins). And this is after two weeks off from the gym and being sick most of that time! Going to follow the tendonitis protocol but disappointed I'm going to lose out on another few weeks of training. Goes to show you can push the joints/tendons too fast though.
On March 21 2013 21:12 mordek wrote: Pretty bummed I seem to have pushed too hard and now have a minor strain in what I would guess is my proximal biceps tendon/shoulder (aggravated doing straight arm work, back lever, weighted chins). And this is after two weeks off from the gym and being sick most of that time! Going to follow the tendonitis protocol but disappointed I'm going to lose out on another few weeks of training. Goes to show you can push the joints/tendons too fast though.
Yeah, the major thing with progressing fast with bodyweight is it's tough on the connective tissues.
lately I've been interested in bodyweight training, but there's one thing I'm concerned with. I have slight scoliosis (my left shoulder is lower) and the consequence is slightly bigger left/right pectoralis/shoulder. Most people, even after telling them, aren't noticing it. The thing that annoys me is while using compound exercises I get much better left pectoralis activation (especially in the upper part), while on the other side shoulder gets more activated. With isolation exercises, activation is more balanced (left side of the chest is still better activated), but I find basing chest training on mostly cables limiting and little boring ...
I'm afraid if I start doing bodyweight training (and currently really want to do it exclusively), imbalance might get even bigger. Last night I did some push-ups, and noticed that my right shoulder does part of the job (at the expense of upper part of right pectoral muscle), but both sides of the chest got nice pump. Of course, I'm not, and don't plan to be, huge ... just to be in shape. I'm entirely fine with current imbalance, just don't want to develop it even more.
I'd be grateful if someone has experienced something similar and has some pieces of advice. Plan is to stay away for some time from pike push-ups (and similar that emphasize shoulders), and do mostly for chest with adding extra dumbbell front raises for front portion of left shoulder and slightly incline press for right pectoralis (try to squeeze it, minimal right shoulder involvement) as correction. I might be completely wrong ...
lately I've been interested in bodyweight training, but there's one thing I'm concerned with. I have slight scoliosis (my left shoulder is lower) and the consequence is slightly bigger left/right pectoralis/shoulder. Most people, even after telling them, aren't noticing it. The thing that annoys me is while using compound exercises I get much better left pectoralis activation (especially in the upper part), while on the other side shoulder gets more activated. With isolation exercises, activation is more balanced (left side of the chest is still better activated), but I find basing chest training on mostly cables limiting and little boring ...
I'm afraid if I start doing bodyweight training (and currently really want to do it exclusively), imbalance might get even bigger. Last night I did some push-ups, and noticed that my right shoulder does part of the job (at the expense of upper part of right pectoral muscle), but both sides of the chest got nice pump. Of course, I'm not, and don't plan to be, huge ... just to be in shape. I'm entirely fine with current imbalance, just don't want to develop it even more.
I'd be grateful if someone has experienced something similar and has some pieces of advice. Plan is to stay away for some time from pike push-ups (and similar that emphasize shoulders), and do mostly for chest with adding extra dumbbell front raises for front portion of left shoulder and slightly incline press for right pectoralis (try to squeeze it, minimal right shoulder involvement) as correction. I might be completely wrong ...
Thanks!
Hi,
Don't worry too much about muscle symmetry, you can correct that in a couple weeks in a gym with isolation exercices (not sure about bodyweight exercices though since they are compound exercises... should be possible but it's more difficult). I've got no symmetry whatsoever in my chest (pecs, abs, ..., nothing's balanced) but with increased definition, development & a lil' bit of time, everything'll be straightened out. Besides, unless they're huge imbalances, noone'll notice. Like noone, seriously.
lately I've been interested in bodyweight training, but there's one thing I'm concerned with. I have slight scoliosis (my left shoulder is lower) and the consequence is slightly bigger left/right pectoralis/shoulder. Most people, even after telling them, aren't noticing it. The thing that annoys me is while using compound exercises I get much better left pectoralis activation (especially in the upper part), while on the other side shoulder gets more activated. With isolation exercises, activation is more balanced (left side of the chest is still better activated), but I find basing chest training on mostly cables limiting and little boring ...
I'm afraid if I start doing bodyweight training (and currently really want to do it exclusively), imbalance might get even bigger. Last night I did some push-ups, and noticed that my right shoulder does part of the job (at the expense of upper part of right pectoral muscle), but both sides of the chest got nice pump. Of course, I'm not, and don't plan to be, huge ... just to be in shape. I'm entirely fine with current imbalance, just don't want to develop it even more.
I'd be grateful if someone has experienced something similar and has some pieces of advice. Plan is to stay away for some time from pike push-ups (and similar that emphasize shoulders), and do mostly for chest with adding extra dumbbell front raises for front portion of left shoulder and slightly incline press for right pectoralis (try to squeeze it, minimal right shoulder involvement) as correction. I might be completely wrong ...
Thanks!
Hi,
Don't worry too much about muscle symmetry, you can correct that in a couple weeks in a gym with isolation exercices (not sure about bodyweight exercices though since they are compound exercises... should be possible but it's more difficult). I've got no symmetry whatsoever in my chest (pecs, abs, ..., nothing's balanced) but with increased definition, development & a lil' bit of time, everything'll be straightened out. Besides, unless they're huge imbalances, noone'll notice. Like noone, seriously.
Thanks for the answer ... the thing is, for me, it goes much slower. Trained for several months using mostly cables for chest, and things started to look more balanced, but at the expense of weaker (and smaller) chest. Upper part of right pectoralis is problematic.
No one is perfectly symmetrical and that's not what I'm aiming at. Couldn't care less if I'm not entirely symmetrical as long as I get almost the same feel in each desired part of targeted muscle(s). Current visual difference isn't what worries me ... it's weaker activation (especially with compound exercises) of already smaller right pectoralis, and possible further visual (and potentionally functional) difference increase. That's why I'd like to know if someone's experienced something similar ... or I'm worrying too much, and should just do bodyweight training and observe how body responds. Hopefully, I won't end up stuck with isolation as only viable option for somewhat similar activation for both sides of pectoral muscles.
Isolation strength training for your right side should solve the activation problem. Like 3-5 reps bench press with a dumbell (well this is a compound exercise but still), or 3-5 reps on pec decks with only one arm. You can also do pushups with a wider grip and instead of lowering your body so that your nose touches the ground at the same distance from both hands, touch the ground closer to your right hand to shift your bodyweight there and lift up your right leg (bring your knee to the side). It's hard to explain, kinda similar to side to side push ups but with only one foot touching the ground.
I'm sure this gets asked from time to time in the thread but I don't see anything related to it in the op.
What is a cost effective protein powder? I've seen such a range in prices and I can't base a decision off of the advertising and online reviews (which are often fake!). Can anyone here make an informed recommendation on which ones are most worth purchasing for cost effectiveness.
there was a googledoc posted somewhere researched by some dude on reddit, i think Optimum Nutrition was deemed as one of the best. I've been using ON for 4 years, no complaints.
On April 08 2013 07:16 mordek wrote: 60 second skin the cat hang. Taking the progression slower. Next working towards 60s back lever tuck.
God damn my flu. I would have joined you on this quest for BL now that you started over again. My arm has been painless for a while now and after a month's break I got a whopping 4 workouts before I'm out of comission again.
On April 08 2013 07:16 mordek wrote: 60 second skin the cat hang. Taking the progression slower. Next working towards 60s back lever tuck.
God damn my flu. I would have joined you on this quest for BL now that you started over again. My arm has been painless for a while now and after a month's break I got a whopping 4 workouts before I'm out of comission again.
The flu is awful. Had it once, got a 106 fever and was sick for a week straight. Tamaflu also doesn't help, since that stuff messes you up soooo bad. Hope your flu isn't too severe and that you get better soon.
On April 08 2013 07:16 mordek wrote: 60 second skin the cat hang. Taking the progression slower. Next working towards 60s back lever tuck.
God damn my flu. I would have joined you on this quest for BL now that you started over again. My arm has been painless for a while now and after a month's break I got a whopping 4 workouts before I'm out of comission again.
Bummer I got a bad cold a few week's ago and coming out of it was when my arm/shoulder got strained. Hope you recover quickly!
On April 08 2013 09:26 puppykiller wrote: I'm sure this gets asked from time to time in the thread but I don't see anything related to it in the op.
What is a cost effective protein powder? I've seen such a range in prices and I can't base a decision off of the advertising and online reviews (which are often fake!). Can anyone here make an informed recommendation on which ones are most worth purchasing for cost effectiveness.
Honestly, if you want an effective powder, go with a weight gain powder. The intake of massive amounts of protein to cause muscle gain is a myth as excess protein is excess calories--that is it. A weight gain powder provides you with those excess calories for a lot less money.
Getting back on the horse. Been totally without a routine for the last month or two trying to figure out my back rehab and just other life stuff. I got two friends hooked on bw training recently and joined them this morning. Training partners definitely help. We'll see if I can still get to my goals by the end of the year
On May 20 2013 21:06 mordek wrote: Getting back on the horse. Been totally without a routine for the last month or two trying to figure out my back rehab and just other life stuff. I got two friends hooked on bw training recently and joined them this morning. Training partners definitely help. We'll see if I can still get to my goals by the end of the year
Yeah, generally its more fun training with people around.
So after not doing anything beyond pull/chin-ups for 2 months, which I'm ashamed to say after looking at my log, I pr'd my L-sit with 3 sets of 20s.
My friend is having trouble with L-sit. His legs externally rotate pretty drastically and has trouble keeping his legs straight. Doesn't have this issue when doing the V exercise trying to pull knees to face with legs straight... can't remember what it's called in OG. I told him external rotators probably really tight and hamstrings are inflexible. Advised him to stretch those but curious if there's something else he should be working on.
On May 30 2013 21:15 mordek wrote: So after not doing anything beyond pull/chin-ups for 2 months, which I'm ashamed to say after looking at my log, I pr'd my L-sit with 3 sets of 20s.
My friend is having trouble with L-sit. His legs externally rotate pretty drastically and has trouble keeping his legs straight. Doesn't have this issue when doing the V exercise trying to pull knees to face with legs straight... can't remember what it's called in OG. I told him external rotators probably really tight and hamstrings are inflexible. Advised him to stretch those but curious if there's something else he should be working on.
I had big problems keeping legs straight at first as well. Does your friend get muscle contractions in his upper legs as well when trying to l-sit straight? What i did was buy 2 push up support thingies that you can put on the floor raising your body ~10 cm. This way I could start l-sit progression while having some leeway (or w./e the word is) in the angle for raising my legs. Took me about a month to get past the muscle contractions. Didn't do any specific stretches for more mobility.
On May 30 2013 21:15 mordek wrote: So after not doing anything beyond pull/chin-ups for 2 months, which I'm ashamed to say after looking at my log, I pr'd my L-sit with 3 sets of 20s.
My friend is having trouble with L-sit. His legs externally rotate pretty drastically and has trouble keeping his legs straight. Doesn't have this issue when doing the V exercise trying to pull knees to face with legs straight... can't remember what it's called in OG. I told him external rotators probably really tight and hamstrings are inflexible. Advised him to stretch those but curious if there's something else he should be working on.
I had big problems keeping legs straight at first as well. Does your friend get muscle contractions in his upper legs as well when trying to l-sit straight? What i did was buy 2 push up support thingies that you can put on the floor raising your body ~10 cm. This way I could start l-sit progression while having some leeway (or w./e the word is) in the angle for raising my legs. Took me about a month to get past the muscle contractions. Didn't do any specific stretches for more mobility.
Leeway is correctly used
I think his quads cramp up yeah. I have the same thing too though. I just foam roll them and stretch my hip flexors and that helps. I'll suggest elevating himself and working from there.
You can also use 2 chairs or tables to elevate the legs.
Cramping is normal -- isometric contractions cut off blood flow to the muscle, and the ATP runs out and shorter muscle means more cross bridges of myosin and action = more cramping. ATP is needed to unbind the myosin head so if you run out of energy (like when you are fatigued or no blood flow) the muscle will keep contracting = cramping.
My friend is having trouble with L-sit. His legs externally rotate pretty drastically and has trouble keeping his legs straight. Doesn't have this issue when doing the V exercise trying to pull knees to face with legs straight... can't remember what it's called in OG. I told him external rotators probably really tight and hamstrings are inflexible. Advised him to stretch those but curious if there's something else he should be working on.
People can have issues with flexibility in active positions but not with compression. It's not unheard of.
Typically external rotation of the legs means that the hip flexors are working (iliopsoas externally rotates the leg) more than the abdominal muscles... so some specific abdominal strengthening may be needed.
On May 31 2013 11:56 eshlow wrote: You can also use 2 chairs or tables to elevate the legs.
Cramping is normal -- isometric contractions cut off blood flow to the muscle, and the ATP runs out and shorter muscle means more cross bridges of myosin and action = more cramping. ATP is needed to unbind the myosin head so if you run out of energy (like when you are fatigued or no blood flow) the muscle will keep contracting = cramping.
My friend is having trouble with L-sit. His legs externally rotate pretty drastically and has trouble keeping his legs straight. Doesn't have this issue when doing the V exercise trying to pull knees to face with legs straight... can't remember what it's called in OG. I told him external rotators probably really tight and hamstrings are inflexible. Advised him to stretch those but curious if there's something else he should be working on.
People can have issues with flexibility in active positions but not with compression. It's not unheard of.
Typically external rotation of the legs means that the hip flexors are working (iliopsoas externally rotates the leg) more than the abdominal muscles... so some specific abdominal strengthening may be needed.
Thanks! Any specific ab exercises? I'm assuming ones that inhibit the hip flexors from doing the work? My abs always feel it when I'm doing my pelvic tilt exercises, that's what comes to mind.
On May 31 2013 11:56 eshlow wrote: You can also use 2 chairs or tables to elevate the legs.
Cramping is normal -- isometric contractions cut off blood flow to the muscle, and the ATP runs out and shorter muscle means more cross bridges of myosin and action = more cramping. ATP is needed to unbind the myosin head so if you run out of energy (like when you are fatigued or no blood flow) the muscle will keep contracting = cramping.
My friend is having trouble with L-sit. His legs externally rotate pretty drastically and has trouble keeping his legs straight. Doesn't have this issue when doing the V exercise trying to pull knees to face with legs straight... can't remember what it's called in OG. I told him external rotators probably really tight and hamstrings are inflexible. Advised him to stretch those but curious if there's something else he should be working on.
People can have issues with flexibility in active positions but not with compression. It's not unheard of.
Typically external rotation of the legs means that the hip flexors are working (iliopsoas externally rotates the leg) more than the abdominal muscles... so some specific abdominal strengthening may be needed.
Thanks! Any specific ab exercises? I'm assuming ones that inhibit the hip flexors from doing the work? My abs always feel it when I'm doing my pelvic tilt exercises, that's what comes to mind.
GHD situps are pretty good... hanging leg raises if you tilt the pelvis first. Perhaps use the rings as an ab wheel as well
First of all I want to thank you, eshlow, for advising me here in the forum and say that your book overcoming gravity was not only very helpful in establishing a workout for myself, but also just generally interesting, informative and enjoyable to read!
I already have made some great progress, considering where i was when i first started, but I also could have made more if I was more diligent. So after I felt like I plateued a little I took a week off (worked on my Handstands some more which I have to admit I neglected to much and some mobility work) and will start again on Sunday with new focus. (I write this in part to keep myself accountable )
Saturday I will do some Max testing and then it's going to be a 3day/week Fullbody Routine Su / Tue / Thur:
Also I am going to start eating more aka trying to put on some weight. At the moment I am at 179cm (which I think is 5'11) and 77.8kg (171.5 lbs) at roughly 17-18% bodyfat. I feel like I could look pretty good dropping more bodyfat now but have the potential to look even better if I add some more muscle first which is kinda getting hard without a calorie surplus at this point, but that is more for a different thread I guess.
So here's to a good "new" start! Thanks again and Cheers!
On June 08 2013 03:21 eLyx wrote: First of all I want to thank you, eshlow, for advising me here in the forum and say that your book overcoming gravity was not only very helpful in establishing a workout for myself, but also just generally interesting, informative and enjoyable to read!
I already have made some great progress, considering where i was when i first started, but I also could have made more if I was more diligent. So after I felt like I plateued a little I took a week off (worked on my Handstands some more which I have to admit I neglected to much and some mobility work) and will start again on Sunday with new focus. (I write this in part to keep myself accountable )
Saturday I will do some Max testing and then it's going to be a 3day/week Fullbody Routine Su / Tue / Thur:
Also I am going to start eating more aka trying to put on some weight. At the moment I am at 179cm (which I think is 5'11) and 77.8kg (171.5 lbs) at roughly 17-18% bodyfat. I feel like I could look pretty good dropping more bodyfat now but have the potential to look even better if I add some more muscle first which is kinda getting hard without a calorie surplus at this point, but that is more for a different thread I guess.
So here's to a good "new" start! Thanks again and Cheers!
Awesome. Just be consistent and you will get good progress!
Handstands are a funny thing. Feeling pretty good balancing pushing off a wall handstand and holding. Then I go and workout with friends and they're like you're way too bent (this is with kicking up). I didn't think it felt that bad and then they took a picture. lol. like the letter C. Gotta work on that sensory feedback or something. I think looking at the ground is not helping?
On June 09 2013 03:44 mordek wrote: Handstands are a funny thing. Feeling pretty good balancing pushing off a wall handstand and holding. Then I go and workout with friends and they're like you're way too bent (this is with kicking up). I didn't think it felt that bad and then they took a picture. lol. like the letter C. Gotta work on that sensory feedback or something. I think looking at the ground is not helping?
Keep the head in mostly, and look at the ground barely at the top corner of your vision
On June 16 2013 02:47 travis wrote: Hey, I have a question about 2 different scenarios
scenario 1:
I do 3 sets of 5 pistols per leg
scenario 2:
I do 3 sets of 5 pistols per leg and then do a set of 80 normal bodyweight squats
assuming I get adequate rest, will i see more, equal, or less strength gain from scenario 1?
p.s: hi eshlow. saw ur book has crazy good reviews on amazon. congrats
Well, the answer is that it depends.
IN this specific scenario, since 3x5 pistols is probably not a good enough stress on the legs to produce a good strength response it's likely that the strength gain would be similar.
If it was say specific heavy barbell squats then it's likely the only strength without endurance would be superior.
The difference being that it matters how much volume/intensity is needed for the body to sufficiently adapt (SAID principle). If you apply an optimal strength stimulus to get optimal strength gains (yes, it's fairly nebulous to say it that way) then adding anything else is going to detract from those gains.
That's why in beginners there's a study where lots of reps at 30% 1 RM to failure did the same thing as 90% 1 RM to failure.
When working on the front lever I've been getting a stinging sensation behind my left shoulder blade, if it helps to be more specific I can try to identify where exactly along my spine. Started a few weeks ago and hasn't gone away. I've tried rolling the area with a lacrosse ball so far, any other suggestions? Also, on the back lever, which I'm usually feeling very good on and it's just a strength limitation I've been getting a slight discomfort/weakness in my left trap... which is just odd as I don't feel like this is a main muscle for the left but its been a week or so now that it's caused me to abort the hold when I could have held it longer.
I am doing WallHeadstandpushups (Eccentrics), Ring Rows, RTO Pushups, Pullups and Bodyweight Squats. What is in your opinion the best way to pair the exercises to reduce downtime? Cause it just takes to long for a whole workout with warmup, skillwork and mobilitywork added on top, when i am going through one exercise after another.
Right now I am pairing WallHeadstandpushups with the Ring Rows, RTO Pushups with the Pullups and do the Squats last but I think this is not really optimal. I am doing the Squats last because they are the lowest of my priorities when it comes to my goals.
On June 17 2013 21:08 mordek wrote: When working on the front lever I've been getting a stinging sensation behind my left shoulder blade, if it helps to be more specific I can try to identify where exactly along my spine. Started a few weeks ago and hasn't gone away. I've tried rolling the area with a lacrosse ball so far, any other suggestions? Also, on the back lever, which I'm usually feeling very good on and it's just a strength limitation I've been getting a slight discomfort/weakness in my left trap... which is just odd as I don't feel like this is a main muscle for the left but its been a week or so now that it's caused me to abort the hold when I could have held it longer.
Depends on where it is. It can be weakness in which case I would suggest some more horizontal rowing before attempting more front lever work. If the back lever stuff is on the same side, then it's probably a pretty good idea to work overall on scapular strength and stability from all directions.
Mobility and soft tissue work may help as well.
On June 18 2013 19:13 eLyx wrote: I am doing WallHeadstandpushups (Eccentrics), Ring Rows, RTO Pushups, Pullups and Bodyweight Squats. What is in your opinion the best way to pair the exercises to reduce downtime? Cause it just takes to long for a whole workout with warmup, skillwork and mobilitywork added on top, when i am going through one exercise after another.
Right now I am pairing WallHeadstandpushups with the Ring Rows, RTO Pushups with the Pullups and do the Squats last but I think this is not really optimal. I am doing the Squats last because they are the lowest of my priorities when it comes to my goals.
Depends on what you want to prioritize.
You can generally pair push/legs, pull/legs and push/pull for all combos. And you generally want to put the exercises you want to progress on first.
What you are doing seems fine right now since squats are your lowest priority.
28-day handstand challenge started yesterday. I've been meaning to start practicing daily so here goes. I was able to do two 5 second free handstands yesterday and a 45 second wall handstand this morning. Hoping to get a 20 second free handstand and a minute+ wall handstand. gogogo
Ok, on the front lever I keep externally rotating my shoulders at the beginning. This is the active stable position right? I feel like after pulling myself up I move my knees out (advanced tuck) and it just doesn't feel like I can keep my shoulders there... they relax to a internally rotated position, like I was doing a pull-up, my back is then struggling which I suppose is the weak point and I feel much less stable. Am I doing anything wrong and what should I be focusing on?
This isn't from personal experience as I'm not working FL yet. So mainly from OG. Yes you should keep your shoulders retracted and depressed in all the front lever profgressions. If you can't then you lack the posterior shoulder strength for that progression. Some additional assistance work might work. Depending on your routine and current abilities it might be working the previous progression with extra attention to shoulder position, FL pullups in the previous progression, some horizontal rowing or working the manna progression.
Btw my posterior shoulders are also weak in comparison, so I feel for you.
Also something about the L-sit I've been meaning to ask eshlow's opinion on: (This is about training on the floor, haven't tried parallettes.) I'm starting to feel that as a novice it might be better to work the L-sit with fingers forward if you want to focus on shoulder development. The reason being that if you have fingers backward, shoulders really retracted and hips by your hands, then most of your weight is in front of you and you tend to automatically tilt forward since you cant apply any strength to counter your weight. Whereas if your fingers are forward you can apply strength from your fingers and wrists to get some leverage to prevent you from falling forward. If I want to keep good shoulder position and hips by my hands with fingers back I need to try to lift my legs past parallel so that my center of mass moves closer to my hands.
Here are some examples to better show what I mean. This is what I consider good shoulder and chest position in L-sit with fingers forward. And here with fingers pointing back you can see how the shoulders come forward as the hips go back to keep the center of mass closer to the person's hands.
Now that's no problem if your shoulders are already strong enough to do lifts like that. But as a novice of course you want fly through the tucked versions and just get your legs straight asap. But I think doing so with fingers back might just lead to over emphasizing the compression and lead to a rounded back with hips behind the hands and shoulders forward. I'm pretty sure I was guilty of that at least. That's a shame since now that I started trying to do it fingers forward and IMO much better shoulder/hip/chest positions I'm really seeing how awesome and efficient of a shoulder exercise the L-sit can be. No wonder my rowing has been sucking... haha :D
Thanks 4th, I think I knew that but didn't want to! I'll probably just really nail the fully tucked position and do some tucked pull-ups. Also, I know exactly what you mean with the L-sit. I was contemplating bringing it up to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong but felt a video was best and I haven't been bothered to do one yet.
On July 09 2013 20:07 mordek wrote: Ok, on the front lever I keep externally rotating my shoulders at the beginning. This is the active stable position right? I feel like after pulling myself up I move my knees out (advanced tuck) and it just doesn't feel like I can keep my shoulders there... they relax to a internally rotated position, like I was doing a pull-up, my back is then struggling which I suppose is the weak point and I feel much less stable. Am I doing anything wrong and what should I be focusing on?
Typically means weakness in the posterior shoulder and potentially rotator cuff and.or scapular retractors.
I think 4H said that as well.
You can do specific work with some exercises there if you want.
On July 09 2013 22:01 4thHatchery wrote: This isn't from personal experience as I'm not working FL yet. So mainly from OG. Yes you should keep your shoulders retracted and depressed in all the front lever profgressions. If you can't then you lack the posterior shoulder strength for that progression. Some additional assistance work might work. Depending on your routine and current abilities it might be working the previous progression with extra attention to shoulder position, FL pullups in the previous progression, some horizontal rowing or working the manna progression.
Btw my posterior shoulders are also weak in comparison, so I feel for you.
Also something about the L-sit I've been meaning to ask eshlow's opinion on: (This is about training on the floor, haven't tried parallettes.) I'm starting to feel that as a novice it might be better to work the L-sit with fingers forward if you want to focus on shoulder development. The reason being that if you have fingers backward, shoulders really retracted and hips by your hands, then most of your weight is in front of you and you tend to automatically tilt forward since you cant apply any strength to counter your weight. Whereas if your fingers are forward you can apply strength from your fingers and wrists to get some leverage to prevent you from falling forward. If I want to keep good shoulder position and hips by my hands with fingers back I need to try to lift my legs past parallel so that my center of mass moves closer to my hands.
Here are some examples to better show what I mean. This is what I consider good shoulder and chest position in L-sit with fingers forward. And here with fingers pointing back you can see how the shoulders come forward as the hips go back to keep the center of mass closer to the person's hands. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKMnv7eEsnQ
Now that's no problem if your shoulders are already strong enough to do lifts like that. But as a novice of course you want fly through the tucked versions and just get your legs straight asap. But I think doing so with fingers back might just lead to over emphasizing the compression and lead to a rounded back with hips behind the hands and shoulders forward. I'm pretty sure I was guilty of that at least. That's a shame since now that I started trying to do it fingers forward and IMO much better shoulder/hip/chest positions I'm really seeing how awesome and efficient of a shoulder exercise the L-sit can be. No wonder my rowing has been sucking... haha :D
My take on it is this: you get enough anterior shoulder development from HS, and whatever pushing exercises.
Most poeple are weaker on the posterior shoulders + poor posture so I like L-sit progressing towards hands backward. In addition, if you are eventually going to start to work up to V-sit/manna you will want the hands backwards to get used to it.
Rounding the back in L-sit is not that big of a deal as well. Eventually you want total compression so your back is going to have to be rounded anyway.
On July 09 2013 22:01 4thHatchery wrote: This isn't from personal experience as I'm not working FL yet. So mainly from OG. Yes you should keep your shoulders retracted and depressed in all the front lever profgressions. If you can't then you lack the posterior shoulder strength for that progression. Some additional assistance work might work. Depending on your routine and current abilities it might be working the previous progression with extra attention to shoulder position, FL pullups in the previous progression, some horizontal rowing or working the manna progression.
Btw my posterior shoulders are also weak in comparison, so I feel for you.
Also something about the L-sit I've been meaning to ask eshlow's opinion on: (This is about training on the floor, haven't tried parallettes.) I'm starting to feel that as a novice it might be better to work the L-sit with fingers forward if you want to focus on shoulder development. The reason being that if you have fingers backward, shoulders really retracted and hips by your hands, then most of your weight is in front of you and you tend to automatically tilt forward since you cant apply any strength to counter your weight. Whereas if your fingers are forward you can apply strength from your fingers and wrists to get some leverage to prevent you from falling forward. If I want to keep good shoulder position and hips by my hands with fingers back I need to try to lift my legs past parallel so that my center of mass moves closer to my hands.
Here are some examples to better show what I mean. This is what I consider good shoulder and chest position in L-sit with fingers forward. And here with fingers pointing back you can see how the shoulders come forward as the hips go back to keep the center of mass closer to the person's hands. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKMnv7eEsnQ
Now that's no problem if your shoulders are already strong enough to do lifts like that. But as a novice of course you want fly through the tucked versions and just get your legs straight asap. But I think doing so with fingers back might just lead to over emphasizing the compression and lead to a rounded back with hips behind the hands and shoulders forward. I'm pretty sure I was guilty of that at least. That's a shame since now that I started trying to do it fingers forward and IMO much better shoulder/hip/chest positions I'm really seeing how awesome and efficient of a shoulder exercise the L-sit can be. No wonder my rowing has been sucking... haha :D
My take on it is this: you get enough anterior shoulder development from HS, and whatever pushing exercises.
Most poeple are weaker on the posterior shoulders + poor posture so I like L-sit progressing towards hands backward. In addition, if you are eventually going to start to work up to V-sit/manna you will want the hands backwards to get used to it.
Rounding the back in L-sit is not that big of a deal as well. Eventually you want total compression so your back is going to have to be rounded anyway.
I meant that IMO a true novice will get more posterior shoulder activation from doing L-sit with hands forward. It's not really even about the rounding of the back but I see the hips going back as a problem. And if you do it hands backward the hips will go back unless you lift your legs which is something a beginner most likely won't be able to do. The reason I don't like the hips going back is that if they go back far enough and you're mentally thinking about just depressing your shoulders and keeping the legs off the ground, the shoulders will IMO be doing more of a flexion exercise rather than extension.
I absolutely agree that most people get enough anterior shoulder work already and I also agree that there comes a point where turning the hands backwards is beneficial to further posterior shoulder development.
Personally at least I feel my posterior shoulder gets more work when doing tucked L-sit with hands forward and focusing on keeping the shoulders retracted and hips forward, as opposed to doing a "full" L-sit with hands backward where my hips go back. I may write another post later when I have more time just to make sure there's no misunderstanding about what I mean, and to see if mordek still agrees with me.
I have since, switched all the bodyweight exercises I've been doing (not a lot anyways) onto the rings progressions. A problem I've encountered are the rings rows, which I can't get my chest to the rings level (hands at nipples level)... The rows are done with feet elevated on a chair. Before this, I've been doing tables rows, that table was sturdy with thick borders (chest was brought to almost the border of the table, but since it was thick enough, distance between chest to hands was quite big, say about ~16cm or so), so I have no idea if I could've brought my chest up to the bar if the rows were done on a bar.
Should I do an easier progression of rings rows with feet on floor with an angle where my chest reaches the rings level or should I keep doing the feet elevated on chair rows until I get stronger?
One thing I've noticed is my scapular strength during adduction, this and probably other factors are affecting both rows and pull-up eccentrics... When the scapula is retracted at the top in both pull ups and rows, it either gets too tiring or very hard to hold it for longer.
Although in the case of pull ups eccentrics, I'd say the progression has been quite tedious and frustrating, since my left arm is weaker than the right one, at the beginning of the attempted pull up I can only get up to a middle height of such exercise (doorframe pull up bar, door is quite low, so to begin the exercise I hang with bend knees)... But if I start the exercise with feet on ground without it being a full ROM (arms flexed), I can get to the top for a few times. When doing assisted full ROM (elevating myself from a chair slowly), I can feel little twitching in my left arm area (maybe end of the deltoid and beginning of bicep/tricep), maybe not strong enough in that area?
Edit: Actually my question was pretty stupid, I should just do an easier variation with feet on the ground until I get enough strength... But still I'd like to know more about muscle weakness and what's stopping me from that pull up...
Got L-sits 24s, 23s, 22s this morning. It's so weird, some workouts I can't get an L-sit over 20s let alone for three sets. Same thing goes for other exercises.
On August 14 2013 08:03 Namunelbo wrote: So I just got myself a pair of rings.
I have since, switched all the bodyweight exercises I've been doing (not a lot anyways) onto the rings progressions. A problem I've encountered are the rings rows, which I can't get my chest to the rings level (hands at nipples level)... The rows are done with feet elevated on a chair. Before this, I've been doing tables rows, that table was sturdy with thick borders (chest was brought to almost the border of the table, but since it was thick enough, distance between chest to hands was quite big, say about ~16cm or so), so I have no idea if I could've brought my chest up to the bar if the rows were done on a bar.
Should I do an easier progression of rings rows with feet on floor with an angle where my chest reaches the rings level or should I keep doing the feet elevated on chair rows until I get stronger?
One thing I've noticed is my scapular strength during adduction, this and probably other factors are affecting both rows and pull-up eccentrics... When the scapula is retracted at the top in both pull ups and rows, it either gets too tiring or very hard to hold it for longer.
Although in the case of pull ups eccentrics, I'd say the progression has been quite tedious and frustrating, since my left arm is weaker than the right one, at the beginning of the attempted pull up I can only get up to a middle height of such exercise (doorframe pull up bar, door is quite low, so to begin the exercise I hang with bend knees)... But if I start the exercise with feet on ground without it being a full ROM (arms flexed), I can get to the top for a few times. When doing assisted full ROM (elevating myself from a chair slowly), I can feel little twitching in my left arm area (maybe end of the deltoid and beginning of bicep/tricep), maybe not strong enough in that area?
Edit: Actually my question was pretty stupid, I should just do an easier variation with feet on the ground until I get enough strength... But still I'd like to know more about muscle weakness and what's stopping me from that pull up...
Do an easier version and work full range of motion.
If you eventually want a muscle up, you need to get good at the top row range of motion as it is the same as the transition part of the muscle up. That's the primary reason why I would suggest it.
Tired scapulas in taht position typically means weakness. So maybe add in a couple sets of just pure retraction as well in the row position.
It used to be hosted on eatmoveimprove but I guess it split off. Anyway, it's just a lot of practice and repetition Other sources can give a lot more information/more accurate information than I so I won't go into technique.
I figured. I just have to do them a fuck ton I guess. A 2 second freestanding hold is already pretty good apparently. I'd like to hit at least 30 seconds. Gotta work on that balance .
I agree it feels like your not accomplishing anything just holding it 2 seconds at a time. I preferr pushing off the wall but my handstan still sucks so that doesnt say much. I really just lack the consistant practice it takes.
Be really careful about the way that you hold yourself while trying to do freestanding handstands. Accidentally falling is way safer if you have your back to the wall. Fell over and managed to dislocate my shoulder a few months ago because I wasn't doing that.
If you practice rolling out of handstands it's better to do it that way though. As far as I know. (Also relieved back pain from the other way, face out, causing me to hyperextend my back automatically.
It used to be hosted on eatmoveimprove but I guess it split off. Anyway, it's just a lot of practice and repetition Other sources can give a lot more information/more accurate information than I so I won't go into technique.
Yeah, Chris has decided to pursue his own business ventures (namely the HS article and thus the HS stuff was moved there) but he is still part of EMI.
Regardless, yeah the HS article is a good way for people to get started.
And yes, for those doing stomach to wall learn to roll out or how to bail before doing any extended work in HS
Is bodyweight training something that a beginner can get into in his college dormroom? I have a pullup bar and that's about it. I've noticed that I need additional equipment for exercises such as the l-sit or the backlever. Is bodyweight training something that could be done with simply exercises like the handstand, pushups, pullups, etc? What are other exercises I could do?
On September 03 2013 02:51 ticki wrote: Is bodyweight training something that a beginner can get into in his college dormroom? I have a pullup bar and that's about it. I've noticed that I need additional equipment for exercises such as the l-sit or the backlever. Is bodyweight training something that could be done with simply exercises like the handstand, pushups, pullups, etc? What are other exercises I could do?
No, L-sit can be done on the ground and back lever on a bar.
Another school year is starting, but this isn't the case for me. I will be working majority of the time, playing video games and most of all heading to the gym.
I have been doing the 5x5 SS program for roughly 4 months but in that 4 months I took some breaks here and there. Doing the program for that long I did see progress for the first 2 months then after that I haven't really seen anything after that. So I think its time for me to do split routines now. As a beginner of split routines can someone give me pointers.. Which days to do what, how to combine them appropriately etc.
On September 03 2013 12:37 iloveroo wrote: Another school year is starting, but this isn't the case for me. I will be working majority of the time, playing video games and most of all heading to the gym.
I have been doing the 5x5 SS program for roughly 4 months but in that 4 months I took some breaks here and there. Doing the program for that long I did see progress for the first 2 months then after that I haven't really seen anything after that. So I think its time for me to do split routines now. As a beginner of split routines can someone give me pointers.. Which days to do what, how to combine them appropriately etc.
The biggest indictor of progress is consistency. You don't have it.
Changing your routine won't make you improve. Being more consistent will.
PR free handstand at 8s. Weird thing was I was just kicking up to practice a little bit on the sideline at ultimate and I tried watching the game while inverted. Instantly felt more aware of my balance than when I look at the ground normally, which seems counter-intuitive but I'll take it. It may just be getting my head in a better position.
On September 05 2013 21:16 mordek wrote: PR free handstand at 8s. Weird thing was I was just kicking up to practice a little bit on the sideline at ultimate and I tried watching the game while inverted. Instantly felt more aware of my balance than when I look at the ground normally, which seems counter-intuitive but I'll take it. It may just be getting my head in a better position.
Yeah, head in seems to work better for some people.
I prefer head out just enough so you can see the ground out of the top of your eyes. Head out so you're looking directly at the ground is way too much for anyone really.
Looking directly at the ground puts your spine in too big of a bend which in turn impacts data transfer through your nervous system. Basically you should never have kinks in your spine when doing anything that requires strength and/or coördination.
Kelly Starret basically made his career on this subject, so if you want to delve deeper look at/read some of his stuff.
Since yesterday I have a Pull-Up in my flat, screwed into the ceiling to support my 105kg frame. I couldn't be happier, now that I don't have to run around and look for construction sites to do my Pull-Ups... It drives me mad that in Germany we never seem to have Pull-Up bars in our parcs.
I also just realized again yesterday that you can do so much stuff with Push-Ups. They surely have their limitations, but if you focus on good form and some more difficult variations, you can really do lots of good stuff with those. Still, I would like to have a Dip-Station in my flat, but I don't know where to put it. I don't think my chairs are made for that, at least not for weighted Dips.
I wish could Squat again, but maybe that majorly expensive acupuncture is gonna help.
Hey Malinor, glad to see you're keeping at it Anecdotally I've had acupuncture help with stuff, hope it improves for you (quad right?)
Is there a major drawback to doing l-sit/frog stand every day or even a couple times a day? I'm thinking it's more skill work but I'm not that advanced in either but also tired of doing 2-3 workouts a week and not making a ton of progress. Consistency is key but wondering if daily work would help with that consistency.
Glad to hear that. And yeah, I am keeping at it. My weight is junmping up and down, but at the end of the day I weigh the same than at the beginning of the year. With my history, I should count this as a success. Still wanna lose 10kg total though.
I just stopped posting since wieghtlifting just was too frustrating with my injury and then starting a new job... working full-time is stressful
Anyway, I am REALLY hoping that the acupuncture is going to help, plus me myself massaging it all the time. I am desperate actually. Everything that requires explosive power in the quads is just not feasible
@Garbels: Honestly, I would have never thought of that, although it is that obvious. That is gonna be so awesome, I won't even be needing a gym anymore until my stupid quad is fixed. Bodyweight stuff is awesome.
On September 09 2013 21:59 mordek wrote: Hey Malinor, glad to see you're keeping at it Anecdotally I've had acupuncture help with stuff, hope it improves for you (quad right?)
Is there a major drawback to doing l-sit/frog stand every day or even a couple times a day? I'm thinking it's more skill work but I'm not that advanced in either but also tired of doing 2-3 workouts a week and not making a ton of progress. Consistency is key but wondering if daily work would help with that consistency.
L-sit is fine cause core is core. Frog stand is OK because it's mostly balance but once you get into the upper planche progressions its not a good idea because its more strength related
probably you missed my PM (the button is really small...), might as well ask in here:
Is there a specific reason that you are advising for wooden rings? I could get the wooden rings from Rogue Fitness, it's just like 25€ more expensive and probably takes much longer to ship. Alternatively I was looking at these:
On September 09 2013 21:59 mordek wrote: Hey Malinor, glad to see you're keeping at it Anecdotally I've had acupuncture help with stuff, hope it improves for you (quad right?)
Is there a major drawback to doing l-sit/frog stand every day or even a couple times a day? I'm thinking it's more skill work but I'm not that advanced in either but also tired of doing 2-3 workouts a week and not making a ton of progress. Consistency is key but wondering if daily work would help with that consistency.
L-sit is fine cause core is core. Frog stand is OK because it's mostly balance but once you get into the upper planche progressions its not a good idea because its more strength related
I'm not so much stuck on the balance as the strength, which is frustrating :\ Feels bad to bench more than your bodyweight and can't pick yourself up in a tuck position lol. It can't hurt as long as it's frog stand/crow pose is probably the reality of it. I try lift my body off my knees in these positions so I feel like I'm at least training partial weight to strengthen so there's that. Any input on my SI joint back acting up when I try to do this? I'm trying to be careful on not aggravating it, I'm thinking the raising my back while tucked is bothering it and just not sure what to about it at this point.
I wouldn't do the frogstand and lift body from knees part. Do a frogstand with your weight on the knees until you are comfortable with the balance then go on to tucked planche. Start slow by only lifting yourself a little of the ground. Then a little more and more and then do it with you back straightend a little; then a little more and so on. Should be easy on your SI joint this way.
The book talks a lot about balancing exercises. If my goals include the planche, manna, and normal handstand, what other exercise should I add to keep my shoulders healthy?
Now, within a couple of hours, I can do two... quite funny how that works. The base strength is obviously there, and all those nasty little stabilizer-muscles seem to learn fast what they are supposed to do. Also such a fine device for training L-Sits and stuff... well, basically for training everything. Still, I am just so heavy for that kind of stuff. Eating is such a bitch... I think ~8kg less until the end of the year and I can do much more.
Hey guys. I decided to start with bodyweight training after some months of fucking around with dumbbells and it is great fun so far to go through the progressions, feels like playing Diablo 2 and I am leveling up my Barbarian, just that I am the Barbarian :D I found some good looking progressions online and so far I did 5set x 6reps with 2 seconds up and down motion. Most progressions (except pullups) feel a bit too fast and I can move up to the next progession after just 3 workouts or so. So I thought to maybe change up reps, sets and tempo to make the progress a bit slower.
I am wondering about the interactions of reps, sets and tempo.
So far I read that 8 reps is a good middleground between strength and muscle growth.
I am unsure about the impact of sets though, I thought if I do 8 reps instead of 6 maybe it makes sense to just do 4 sets instead of 5 to keep the volume similar.
I have zero clue about tempo. I tried today to do a 4 seconds up, 4 seconds hold, 4 seconds down tempo. It was super hard and with some chillstep music playing it felt almost meditative to do the motions so slowly and with concentration. However I have no idea what differences the tempo makes besides making it a lot harder. Are there some disadvantages to do such a slow tempo?
On September 27 2013 05:44 mordek wrote: What does the 10x0 stand for?
I think it means 10 seconds on the eccentric movement, at the bottom, X means you turn around immediately (i.e. if you were squatting once you're in the hole immediately switch direction) and then 0 means do the concentric part as quickly as possible
Hi here's my following problem, i went from this + Show Spoiler +
to this http://imageshack.com/i/07xqiwjin 3 months . My weight didn't change but for some reason my face got kinda fatter (fuck my life right?)
I used to do a lot of these 90 days programs with great results. I had a break, picked up CC (convict conditioning) for 3 weeks and since 2 weeks i went doing a more general BW training that i enjoy a lot, http://antranik.org/bodyweight-training/.
My wish is to get back to more or less the same results as pic1, thing is i don't want to do anything of these intensive cardio and i'm kinda worried to loose the muscles that i've been build up since i picked up CC and this BW exercises. Any recommendations?
Thanks for reading this and your eventual advices!
I should warn you, this is going to be a big one; I'm letting off some steam here.
So, preface. I'm a skinny new guy, doing bodyweight strength training according to what I've learned in Overcoming Gravity. Or, at least I was. As fortune would have it, I recently learned from the BtGB forums and r/bodyweight that you are supposedly required to have a 30 second German hang before training back lever, right before I could get started on back lever training. At the time I had never done a German hang. I found this requirement quite surprising considering I didn't find anything in OCG that stated this (although I still haven't finished properly reading and digesting all 600 pages). This naturally made me nervous, and I began researching even more. I ended up spending many dozens of hours researching appropriate form on techniques, how exactly one should warm up, pre-exercise stretches, post-exercise stretches and more. Classic analysis paralysis. What makes this worse is I actually have good reason to spend all this time researching; I still don't know how to stretch or warm up properly, for fucks sake. I also don't have the time to keep this up anymore. The time consumed by research is time I can't afford to spend if I want to get enough sleep to recover from exercise whilst keeping my life on track.
Now that the preface is out of the way, I can get down to asking some questions. I simply don't have the time to do all this research on my own anymore, I need help. My questions are:
1: How long can I afford to learn how to do things right whilst still hitting the gym? If I have a few weeks to learn before I tear something, then that would be a load off my mind. 2: Is there a small number of core sources I can refer to repeatedly and with ease (like I can with Overcoming Gravity) to learn all this stuff? At this rate, looking for individual articles and forum posts on the internet is going to become a completely untenable form of research. 3: How much longer am I going to have to spend learning all this shit? If this goes on for too much longer, I'm going to have to drop this. I hate cardio programs and I don't have the ability or the patience to spend more time researching how to exercise and confirming I'm exercising right than I spend actually exercising. 4: Why is L-sit part of skill training in OCG? I don't see why L-sit in particular is such an important skill and if we're talking about manna training, then isn't that more strength than skill? 5: I have a forward head problem and my weak glutes have lead to quadriceps dominance. Also, my elbows are capable of extending past the norm by a fair amount. I think it's in the range of 5-20 degrees, but I really don't know for sure. Does any of this mean I have to worry about some things more than other people would? For instance, manna progressions feel a bit... weird. With backwards-facing hands, I feel like I have to lean way back to avoid my body leaning against my locked elbows and promptly sending me to the floor.
Routine Critique:
The strength training portion of my routine is, in this order: -Manna progression -pull-ups (as a stand-in while I prepare for back lever, which will occupy this spot) -dips/HSPU progression (alternating which one I work every session) -front lever progression -planche progression -3x5 weighted squats -1x5 dead lifts every other session I do pike and straddle compressions as outlined in OCG at the end of every exercise session alongside the stretches. Minute and a half pause between sets. Exercise sessions done on M/W/F. Stretching done every day. Preliminary stretching routine is this: http://phraktured.net/starting-stretching.html, but I have no idea how hard or fast I should push myself on stretching, among other fundamental pieces of knowledge. I might be forgetting some relevant information, I'm tired and a bit stressed. Sorry if that turns out to be the case. So, yea or nay?
A question for Eshlow:
I noticed a distinct discrepancy between Eshlow's training recommendations and Coach Somner's training recommendations. More accurately, Coach Somner advocates moving at an absolute snail's pace compared to Eshlow. Heck, half the guys on the gymnastic bodies forums seem to think that moving at Eshlow speeds is suicide. So why the discrepancy, Eshlow? Both Somner and you know your stuff, so you both must have a good reason for making the recommendations that you do.
As fortune would have it, I recently learned from the BtGB forums and r/bodyweight that you are supposedly required to have a 30 second German hang before training back lever, right before I could get started on back lever training. At the time I had never done a German hang. I found this requirement quite surprising considering I didn't find anything in OCG that stated this (although I still haven't finished properly reading and digesting all 600 pages).
GH is not necessary before BL in my opinion, but if someone is having shoulder or elbow connective tissue issues then it may be a good idea to start with that before.
I've had people come into the gym who had backgrounds in strength and conditioning and been able to do a full back lever off the bat, so it's highly variable on the person.
If you're totally new to exercise GH is a fine place to start.
1: How long can I afford to learn how to do things right whilst still hitting the gym? If I have a few weeks to learn before I tear something, then that would be a load off my mind. 2: Is there a small number of core sources I can refer to repeatedly and with ease (like I can with Overcoming Gravity) to learn all this stuff? At this rate, looking for individual articles and forum posts on the internet is going to become a completely untenable form of research. 3: How much longer am I going to have to spend learning all this shit? If this goes on for too much longer, I'm going to have to drop this. I hate cardio programs and I don't have the ability or the patience to spend more time researching how to exercise and confirming I'm exercising right than I spend actually exercising. 4: Why is L-sit part of skill training in OCG? I don't see why L-sit in particular is such an important skill and if we're talking about manna training, then isn't that more strength than skill? 5: I have a forward head problem and my weak glutes have lead to quadriceps dominance. Also, my elbows are capable of extending past the norm by a fair amount. I think it's in the range of 5-20 degrees, but I really don't know for sure. Does any of this mean I have to worry about some things more than other people would? For instance, manna progressions feel a bit... weird. With backwards-facing hands, I feel like I have to lean way back to avoid my body leaning against my locked elbows and promptly sending me to the floor.
1. I don't know what you're asking here. 2. /r/bodyweightfitness FAQ is basically a distilled version of OG's basic routine. 3. See this: http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2012/02/a-beginners-guide-to-overcoming-gravity/ or the sample program section. Alternatively, use the /r/bodyweightfitness FAQ routine. 4. Like handstands which are primarily balance it may be strength at first, but as you get stronger it goes more towards skill if there's a higher component of balance. 5. I'd need to see a pic of this. Generally, anywhere between about 5-10 degrees of hyperextension is OK as long as there's no uncomfortable feelings in the elbows, but more than about 10 degrees that's when you may start feeling some issues. Generally, discomfort is a good rule of thumb if something is bothering your body
The proposed routine above is fine.
I noticed a distinct discrepancy between Eshlow's training recommendations and Coach Somner's training recommendations. More accurately, Coach Somner advocates moving at an absolute snail's pace compared to Eshlow. Heck, half the guys on the gymnastic bodies forums seem to think that moving at Eshlow speeds is suicide. So why the discrepancy, Eshlow? Both Somner and you know your stuff, so you both must have a good reason for making the recommendations that you do.
He works with kids, which if you progress them too fast to upper level bodyweight strength movements such as iron cross, you can potentially have issues with growth plates. Though, there's some debate about this.
I work primarily with college age and adults who tend to have a decent background in exercise so they can handle more training volume and progress quicker without worry of injury. Though as you may read from the injury section of the book if you feel any pain or irritation in connective tissues I recommend to back off immediately.
Also, I don't check this as often as /r/overcominggravity so post there instead.
#1 seems to be his fear of an injury due to insufficient warmup, bad routine or bad form.
Imho if you lookup the correct form, strive to achieve it at every rep, dont have an obviously imbalanced routine and do basic warm up you wont tear anything for many many months. if ever.
Plenty of time to learn all this stuff. As you put it.
On January 28 2014 20:56 Garbels wrote: #1 seems to be his fear of an injury due to insufficient warmup, bad routine or bad form.
Imho if you lookup the correct form, strive to achieve it at every rep, dont have an obviously imbalanced routine and do basic warm up you wont tear anything for many many months. if ever.
Plenty of time to learn all this stuff. As you put it.
That would be the correct interpretation of what I'm asking.
On January 28 2014 20:56 Garbels wrote: #1 seems to be his fear of an injury due to insufficient warmup, bad routine or bad form.
Imho if you lookup the correct form, strive to achieve it at every rep, dont have an obviously imbalanced routine and do basic warm up you wont tear anything for many many months. if ever.
Plenty of time to learn all this stuff. As you put it.
Hi eshlow. I bought your book on bodyweight training and in it you recommend training the L-sit on the floor. Thing is, I'm not able to push my body off the floor without equipment but I can do it if I'm using push-up stands. Should I continue trying on the floor or should I train it on the stands until I'm strong enough to do it on the floor?
On May 05 2014 09:02 ludic123 wrote: Hi eshlow. I bought your book on bodyweight training and in it you recommend training the L-sit on the floor. Thing is, I'm not able to push my body off the floor without equipment but I can do it if I'm using push-up stands. Should I continue trying on the floor or should I train it on the stands until I'm strong enough to do it on the floor?
Well IMHO, you should do both, practice with your push-up stands, while training on the floor as well, if you are trying to do the L-Sit on the ground its mostly in your core, and "pushing off", the ground with your hands and not allowing your shoulders to "sink in", such as make your shoulders, "Strong?" like... you're standing straight. Those two things should help you do the L-sit on the ground better, and its always good to practice on the ground so you understand how it feels compared to using the stands, also try to use the two tips on the stands as well and see how that feels.
By no means have I wrote a book, shout out to Eshlow, but I have been doing Calisthenics for 3 years+ and I just wanted to share my knowledge with you ^^. I hope it works for you as it did for me.
On November 22 2013 06:25 CaM27 wrote: Hi here's my following problem, i went from this + Show Spoiler +
to this http://imageshack.com/i/07xqiwjin 3 months . My weight didn't change but for some reason my face got kinda fatter (fuck my life right?)
I used to do a lot of these 90 days programs with great results. I had a break, picked up CC (convict conditioning) for 3 weeks and since 2 weeks i went doing a more general BW training that i enjoy a lot, http://antranik.org/bodyweight-training/.
My wish is to get back to more or less the same results as pic1, thing is i don't want to do anything of these intensive cardio and i'm kinda worried to loose the muscles that i've been build up since i picked up CC and this BW exercises. Any recommendations?
Thanks for reading this and your eventual advices!
I do not think you should be worried about losing muscles because in Calisthenics, you will honestly get much much more larger, BUT it takes a longer time unless you have a low content of fat (me). And honestly you do not need to do cardio though it is nice, just because it helps you slim up more, but with BW exercises as I mentioned earlier it will take longer to get bigger but you will definitely get bigger doing stuff like... variations of pull-ups, chin-ups, dips, and push ups. And this is considering HIGH HIGH reps. So yeah just continue working out doing whatever you are doing, CC or BW. But as the other members said DIETING is crucial.
Hey, I don't usually post here as I normally do my fitness posting in the health and fitness thread or the weightlifting progress thread. I'm coming here because my life has changed enough to where I need to change my workout. With my new job, I can't workout until after work and my job is very physical and tiring. This makes it near impossible for me to do heavy lifting like I like to without screwing up my back that I am trying to slowly rehab. I am just too tired to be able to lift heavy weights with good form. So I want to do bodyweight training. My only concern is that bodyweight training might not be able to sustain what kind of leg workout I want. I play football and I don't want to lose all the lower body strength I have right before the season. The only strenuous lower body bodyweight exercise I know is a pistol squat. I am also fairly unfamiliar with upper body bodyweight exercises other than the basic push up, pull up, and dip. I have access to a pull up bar to workout with, but no other equipment. What exercises can I do (upper body, core, and lower body, you can list them all, I want to learn) to get a good workout and how should I program it? Thanks in advance guys!
Unfortunately there aren't really any disadvantaged positions you can put yourself into for legwork, so while pistol squats can be good up to a point, it definitely has its limits. While for the upper body, bodyweight movements can be a legitimately compareable alternative, there is no such movement to replace heavy squats.
hey i (re)started with bodyweight only training, what works best for me so far is simply a combination of pushups/squats/pullups/ab crunches or russian twists with at most 10 seconds or so of rest in between sets. I just randomly rotate these exercises and also recently got this pair of parallettes, and incorporating them in the routine is really nice.
My question is, apart from squats, what's a good leg workout with bodyweight only? I used to jog on weekends, but I need a routine for indoor as well (sometimes its just too cold outside and I dont feel like running).
On February 10 2015 07:07 xtorn wrote: hey i (re)started with bodyweight only training, what works best for me so far is simply a combination of pushups/squats/pullups/ab crunches or russian twists with at most 10 seconds or so of rest in between sets. I just randomly rotate these exercises and also recently got this pair of parallettes, and incorporating them in the routine is really nice.
My question is, apart from squats, what's a good leg workout with bodyweight only? I used to jog on weekends, but I need a routine for indoor as well (sometimes its just too cold outside and I dont feel like running).
Thx
How do you find your body? Isn't this workout weak on shoulders? Pushup chest, pullups back, legs legs, core crunches...but shoulders/arms?
Your labeling is not really applicable to most bodyweight exercises. Most pushup variations hit the shoulder more than the chest and of course allways arms. Sure the routine is verly light on some body parts but that should be expected with only four exercises.
On February 10 2015 08:42 Garbels wrote: Some form of squats (bw/archer/shrimp/pistol) Lunges (jumping) Glute bridge raise (onle leg) calf raise / reverse calf raise (single leg)
Also good but maybe not indoors: High steps, various jumps(precision, vertical, long), sprints.
Inform yourself about correct form. Just bcause you do not use weights does not mean you can't hurt yourself.
Also be aware that the circuit training you describe is more a HIIT(more cardio) than a strenght program(might be okay depeding on goals).
thank you very much for your answer, will incorporate most of these into my routine.
yes, HIIT is perfectly good for me. Im not aiming for major strength, but rather being fit and feeling good. And it fits me perfectly, I can't train for too long due to lack of time, and it's best that I use the short time to its fullest; I usually do around 400 of these all combined, and its a really intense workout, i feel like a million $$ afterwards
On February 10 2015 07:07 xtorn wrote: hey i (re)started with bodyweight only training, what works best for me so far is simply a combination of pushups/squats/pullups/ab crunches or russian twists with at most 10 seconds or so of rest in between sets. I just randomly rotate these exercises and also recently got this pair of parallettes, and incorporating them in the routine is really nice.
My question is, apart from squats, what's a good leg workout with bodyweight only? I used to jog on weekends, but I need a routine for indoor as well (sometimes its just too cold outside and I dont feel like running).
Thx
How do you find your body? Isn't this workout weak on shoulders? Pushup chest, pullups back, legs legs, core crunches...but shoulders/arms?
since i got the parallettes i put a serious tension on the shoulders every day; until getting them, i did indeed pretty much skip shoulder training, which i know isn't ideal
about arms - i probably work them the most, apart from the pushup variations i do dips+diamond pushups for triceps, and handgrips for forearms (the last one im combining with squats to save time). I also do a sort of lean-forward on the bar for triceps, i dont know what this exercise is called. so yeah, my biggest disadvantage are the legs, which i must work a lot to bring them up-to-date to how they should be. thanks for the hints.
Not an expert but I imagine first step would be doing handstand for a considerable amount of time and ability to do a full planche. From there you can work on controlling the transition.
Well this is a very advanced move so I don't think you will find anyone here who can tell you from experience.
Anyway my take would be to start with the progressions you see here and from there do either negatives or the normal move with straddle/tucked legs. Don't forget to also train your other body parts and stay consistent with your training. This will probably take a few years so be patient.
On April 08 2015 22:07 excitedBear wrote: What is the best way to train for push up to handstand? Like this
Once you are able to do a full planche (the starting pushup position) the second half easy. Developing a full planche though can take years even for people who aren't out of shape to begin with, so be prepared to spend a long time doing it. There's plenty of planche programs online you can reference, I've never done it so I would feel wrong recommending a specific one.
I got your book, eshlow, and I want to start a dynamic bodyweight workout. Problem is I am not going to be able to perform muscle-ups(ceiling is not high enough). I will, however, have access to pull-ups. Can I substitute the muscle-ups with weighted pull-ups and something else?
On June 18 2014 08:14 Najda wrote: Unfortunately there aren't really any disadvantaged positions you can put yourself into for legwork, so while pistol squats can be good up to a point, it definitely has its limits. While for the upper body, bodyweight movements can be a legitimately compareable alternative, there is no such movement to replace heavy squats.
Jumping pistol squats? like a pistol where you jump up on a box or something like that? Pretty hard to do but shouldnt that increase your strenght?
edit: or do as the old school russians and jump from a building lol
Hello, everyone i just want to apologize first because i did not read any rules and i wrote this in a hasty manner, but i did it carefully, and it still took me quite a while, i simply dont have time, im so so sorry, but i still respect you all so much, and i thank you in advance! So i read the book ''overcoming gravity'' it is quite complicated, and i do not seem to understand alot of things, also because english language is not my native, so i had to search for alot of terms on translator, im sure if i would break it down i would be able to understand eventually, but i simply do not have the time. I am 19 years old, 190 cm tall and i weigh 82kg. I want to clarify that my goal is only strenght (so i can do all the explosive moves), and i do not want to get bigger at all, as i seem to already have enough ''bulk''. I have been training for 6 months with this program(i will write it underneath) that i wrote for myself, and i cant even seem to be getting these not so difficult level moves like - tucked planche or straddle front lever, or press handstand(even straddle). First of all, please tell me if my program is correct, secondly please tell me what should i change for it to be correct. Also, i usually work out hour after eating, please tell me if that is good? I need advice on training so bad, any help will be appreciated, i can leave my skype, maybe anyone advanced can add me and i could ask some other questions aswell from time to time. Anyways, here is the program:
1 warm up - 40 - 60 minutes (circle all joints 9 times to both sides - takes not so much time, and then longest part - i stretch all muscles each muscle for 30 seconds) 2 holds - - ( planche with legs touching the ground - its a pushup position leaning forward i can almost do 60 seconds in a set) - (fully tucked front lever 35-40 seconds in a set) - (fully tucked back lever 20-30 seconds in a set) - (l sit 5 seconds legs fully straight, and after those 5 i just mess around and try to do with one leg resting on bed) - (one hand handstand at the wall - i do it all in just one time, i stand 30 seconds on one hand, then i change to other and stand 30 seconds, then straight back to the first and do 30 seconds, and then again the other one and 30 seconds) -(bridge 30 seconds with each leg off from the ground in about 45 degree angle - togheter that makes 60 seconds, and i do just one set)
3. Exercises - Handstand pushups with legs in 90 degrees at hips resting on the table (3 sets of 7 pushups in each set) - Pullups (3 sets of 7 pullups in each set) - pushups(3sets of 10 pushups in each set) - horizontal pullups(i do these on a regular pullup bar with resting my legs on partners shoulders(it looks like front lever position but abit more to the front) 3 sets of 10 pullups in each set) - then i take homemade barbell, sit down and place my elbows on my legs, and do 3 sets of 10 lifting it up trying to move only wrist joints, (i do 3 sets like that palms facing me, and 3 sets palms away from me)
4 Core
-Press to headstand 3 sets of 20 -windshield wipers 3 sets of 10 - then i do an exercise where i lay flat on my stomach, partner sits on me, littlebit over the top of knees and i put my arms out straight in front of me, and lift myself up using my back (3 sets of 60) - then i do an exercise where i lay on my back, hold on to sturdy bed with my arms, and lift my legs up from the ground using my abdomen till 90 degrees, then i let them down, but never touching the ground so its harder, 3 sets of 30 5 Legs -Pistol squats 3 sets of 7 - then i do an exercise, getting up on heels, then getting down and repeating 3 sets of 60-100 - then i do an exercise where i get up on toes and down 3 sets of 60-100
6 warm down
(i stretch all muscles each muscle for 30 seconds)
Thats it, i do all of this in one day, togheter with workout and warmup/down , it is about 3-4,5 hours
I don't feel qualified to make any comments regarding your routine but have you looked at https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/ ? Much more active community in regards to bodyweight fitness.
On April 08 2015 22:07 excitedBear wrote: What is the best way to train for push up to handstand? Like this
Once you are able to do a full planche (the starting pushup position) the second half easy. Developing a full planche though can take years even for people who aren't out of shape to begin with, so be prepared to spend a long time doing it. There's plenty of planche programs online you can reference, I've never done it so I would feel wrong recommending a specific one.
Bumping this thread incase anyone is still interested in bodyweight training.
Thats a bower pushup/90 degree pushup. They are hard but nowhere near as hard as a full planche (you are never in planche position when you do this movement)
EPT
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