|
On September 10 2012 05:37 Daigomi wrote:
Hanakurena, every time I read a post by yours it seems to me like you have a personal grudge/mission which is more important to you than helping out the people or answering their questions.
Let's take the present case as an example. The guy posts that he wants to go to gym to build up total body strength with emphasis on his abs. Your suggestion is to do cardio first and only do strength training if he has time for it. How is that the optimal way for him to reach his goals? It might be optimal to reach your goals (cardiovascual health, although even that is debatable) but it's definitely not the greatest way for him to reach his goals. So in this specific case, your advice is completely inappropriate.
If you want to look at it more generally, I still don't think I agree with you. Most people come to the TLHF forum for three reasons (in order of importance): To look better, to be stronger, to get healthier. You can see this very clearly if you look at the first posts of new posters. Almost all of them want to look better (i.e. more muscled), most of them want to be stronger, and a few of them want to be happier. So, if you want to provide advice in general, it should be advice that satisfies those three goals (preferably in order of importance). Cardio is good for your health and occasionally is OK for your looks (assuming the person is significantly over weight), and does almost nothing for strength. Strength training is also good for your health, is better for your looks and is best for gaining strength. When you look at people on TLHF's priorities, strength training is the optimal plan in general and that's because strength training builds muscle while doing cardio.
My girlfriend tracks her heart rate every workout and without fail she averages around 110 heartrate for the full two hours we do strength training. That's very comparable with cardio and that is even though we take very long breaks (like, 5-10 minutes between sets, mostly because I rest a lot). She recently did a session without me and she averaged 125 heart rate for 60 minutes. Added to that, strength training is very similar to HIIT which has been shown to be more beneficial than consistent cardio. For example, during her last workout, my gf's heart rate shot up to 190 during her deadlift set and was 170 during her squat sets. So strength training has cardio benefits that are very similar to those of pure "cardio", but also allows you to build muscle at the same time.
Also, as you say, there is a risk of injury. There is a risk of injury with everything though. When I did sport in school, I was injured at least as often as I am with weightlifting. Physical activity always entails some risk of injury. Sure, the injuries with weightlifting are generally caused by people making mistakes, but why is that worse than equally common injuries that occur in sport because of random events? Added to that, injuries aren't the end of the world. Just like every professional athlete deals with regular injuries, so does every serious weightlifter. You get injured, you do the time, you recover, you carry on training. As I said, that's the inherent risk in all physical exercise.
Finally, I never said "just lift heavy weights." I said "do squats and deadlifts for your core." As with everything you do, you start at a low weight and work your way up. When you've got a weak core, you start low and allow your core to strengthen as the weights increase. When I started going to gym a year ago, I started off by deadlifting 50kg and that was damn hard. I squatted 35kg. I hadn't exercised at all in about 6 years at the time (and I had never done strength training) so I was weak all over, including my core. Now I'm squatting 150kg and deadlifting 185kg and my strongest muscles by far are either my legs or my core. The point is, these compound exercises exercise your core incredibly well so as long as you follow a reasonable schedule, they'll be more than sufficient for your core.
This is a masterful response. Anyone does "NOT" agree with this?. I'm in love.
|
The guy started to go to the gym because he wants to change something in his life. He never states his goals. He said the guy at the gym said he has to work on his core. Working on your core is always a good and safe thing to do. So I give him advice for that.
Also, I just notice on this board I have to hammer down on cardio because nothing else around here does and people often come with goals that aren't good and they do in fact need help with assessing what are actually good goals to have.
Strength training is completely useless and has no function without a strong cardio base. If you have only 30 minutes a day to work on fitness, spend all of it on cardio. There is no other way. Cardio takes time. Unless you don't care about health of course. And if so, why not pop the steroids and don't work out at all?
And yes, this is personal for me. I take the health and fitness of people personally. I am a caring person like that. I wish everyone the best. Secondly but less importantly, and I am saying this only because you ask, I was mistreated.
This connection does not sound right to me at all. Like the only way to get a strong cardiovascular system is to do cardio? Let's get away from this word for a second, when we are talking about cardio we are normally talking about endurance training. If there is data out there that supports the claim that athletes with strong endurance live longer/ are healthier than athletes focussing on explosive movements/ short heavy exercises, I would like to see it. Sprinters/ Jumpers/ Strength athletes have strong hearts as well, I am pretty certain of that. So basically I believe you just associate a strong heart with cardio just because of the word.
Cardio is training your cardiovascular system. Doing 15 rep squats does train your cardio system and strengthen your heart. Looking at pro athletes life expectancy is pointless. They are almost all doped and that has huge health risks. Not to mention even clean top level endurance sports might have some health risks. Sprinters do cardio or else they can't sprint.
Maybe you think cardio is only aerobic exercise and walking on the treadmill with 110 bpm heartrate. Working your cardio system is cardio.
If you bench press or do sit ups you don't elevate your heart rate at all. Elevating to 110 is actually quite low unless you are really old. The health benefits of cardio differ with different heart rate zones. And the lower the heart rate, the longer you have to be in that heart rate zone anyway. Doing upper body lifting puts you in 110 for only a few minutes of total time. It does very little. Doing some squats taking you up to 170 or 190 is much better. It's a good form of anerobic cardio. It doesn't burn a lot of calories, but that is another concern if it is one at all.
If you have a heart rate of 125 over 60 minutes on average then that's not the same as having a heart rate of 125 for 60 minutes. If most of the time your heart rate is below 100, that's most of the 60 minutes you aren't doing any cardio. Good for those few minutes you are up really high. But we have to make sure we interpret the numbers correctly to find out what they mean for our bodies.
Aerobic and anaerobic exercise train different pathways and systems in the body. It all depends on how much your heart rate is elevated. And higher elevations can't be maintained for a long duration. Elevating to 170 for a few seconds does not amount to much if you can elevate it to 130 or 140 for 30 minutes to an hour.
Still, you need to do some form of HIIT for better performance and improve your lactate system. For VO2max improving you also need to move near the anaerobic range.
Aerobic-Anaerobic isn't black and white. Both systems are always used. It's a matter of percentages. Both systems should ideally be trained. Squatting can help with the anaerobic part. Bench press does not. So how is strength training good for your health?
The fact that a strong cardiovascular system protects you against heart disease should be such a no-brainer, it isn't even funny that apparently for you it isn't. You don't have any people in your surrounding that have heart disease? What do the doctors measure and scan for? What kind of medication do they get?
You don't even have to read the literature or have to know how to use google to know.
Working on your cardio system first and on strength training second is the right goal for everyone in their right mind. I am deciding that for you right here right now. If you think differently you are either the .01% exception or just dead wrong.
The reason people here get injured lifting weights is because they are doing it wrong. Not because they are pushing themselves. Also, some forms of solo sports have dangers of injury as well. But there also, if you get injured your training program was wrong, There is a guy here that wants to run a marathon on a dare in 6 weeks. He is wrong and I told him so. Running is for runners only. If you are not a runner, you have to slowly become one first before running can be your cardio of choice. Many people that talk about runners are and have always been runners, myself included, and they take this for granted. If you have never run, risk of injury is great when you do start. Running is not a form of cardio I would recommend for beginners.
Fact remains that for most people the risks of injury with cardio are very low. And yes, sports injuries risks sometimes have to be accepted. But that's almost entirely team-based sports. If you are lifting weights and risking injuries, you are just making a mistake. If you do it right, the risk of injury should be minimal. Now, we have to learn through mistakes, but that's a different issue.
Cardio gets more efficient at burning calories the more fitness, performance and endurance you have. The faster you can run or cycle or the more resistance you can put on your cardio machine, the more calories you'll burn in the same amount of time. It is extremely strange to see someone suggest the opposite. What do you think happens when you get in better shape? Nothing?
And it's just that many of you care so much about burning calories and losing weight. But it's not for nothing that pro body builders, that are on insane levels of steroids and that lift crazy amounts, use cardio to lose fat. They hate cardio but they just have to to compete.
JingleHell, please leave the trolling to daigomi. At least he is actually blue so he can get away with it.
A strong core is essential for proper form when lifting free weights. If your core is too weak, you can't lift heavy weights without using bad form and risking injuries. A strong core saves your back when doing squats. You want a strong core first before you load a weight on your shoulders you can only lift 5 times.
There are people out there that have no sports/fitness/exercise histories at all. There are people out there with bad posture, muscle imbalances, proneness to back problems or even spine shape defects.
They are all told the same cookie cutter program. Eats lot of protein, satured fat not a problem, lift heavy with SS, be sore every day, alcohol or lack of sleep not a problem, see you in the injury thread if you are unlucky, gg.
You people claim the rate of injury here is nothing special. But the widespread idea that you can just lift heavy weights without supervision with a core that isn't properly conditioned beforehand just explains why there are so many more injuries here than among normal strength training and weight lifting circles. The wrong info being repeated over and over by the regulars here does its damage.
|
Dear Hana:
Don't accuse anyone else of trolling.
This is only true if you think a bullet in the head is an appropriate treatment for a cold.
And for the record, while I understand dietary control of diabetes, and even fairly effective mitigation of it, seeing as my dad has done it, he didn't do it by basing his diet around carbs. He limited them. A lot.
Just because you dislike other people's ways of going about it, doesn't mean they're trolling, especially if you can't prove them wrong. There's plenty of people saying similar things to what I am, in different ways, and your dismissive, yet utterly unsubstantiated claims are nothing if not insulting.
You claim to be trying to give people good advice because you care, but the only things you seem to care about are image and agenda. Me, if I'm proven wrong, I'll happily admit it, and apologize for misinformation, as needed. I've done so on multiple occasions over in the tech board, and started being more careful with my facts as a result.
Frankly, if you're more interested in telling people to do things that you think are best based on your agenda, and you're utterly unconcerned with the results being what they want, or being tailored to them, that pretty effectively belies that notion.
People here are actually trying to show you some courtesy by responding with debate rather than mockery, do the same.
|
A strong core is essential for proper form when lifting free weights. If your core is too weak, you can't lift heavy weights without using bad form and risking injuries. A strong core saves your back when doing squats. You want a strong core first before you load a weight on your shoulders you can only lift 5 times.
no one said to start off squatting and deadlifting 75kg. the proper way to get into these exercises if you have never done them before is to start off very light. this is for safety, injury prevention, to build up core strength before moving on to high weights, and especially to perfect technique. you only add on weight after successfully completing the routine that day, this gradual build up to heavier weights builds your core strength safely through emphasis on mastering technique on lower weights before moving up.
|
South Africa4316 Posts
On September 10 2012 06:24 Hanakurena wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The guy started to go to the gym because he wants to change something in his life. He never states his goals. He said the guy at the gym said he has to work on his core. Working on your core is always a good and safe thing to do. So I give him advice for that. Also, I just notice on this board I have to hammer down on cardio because nothing else around here does and people often come with goals that aren't good and they do in fact need help with assessing what are actually good goals to have. Strength training is completely useless and has no function without a strong cardio base. If you have only 30 minutes a day to work on fitness, spend all of it on cardio. There is no other way. Cardio takes time. Unless you don't care about health of course. And if so, why not pop the steroids and don't work out at all? And yes, this is personal for me. I take the health and fitness of people personally. I am a caring person like that. I wish everyone the best. Secondly but less importantly, and I am saying this only because you ask, I was mistreated.
This connection does not sound right to me at all. Like the only way to get a strong cardiovascular system is to do cardio? Let's get away from this word for a second, when we are talking about cardio we are normally talking about endurance training. If there is data out there that supports the claim that athletes with strong endurance live longer/ are healthier than athletes focussing on explosive movements/ short heavy exercises, I would like to see it. Sprinters/ Jumpers/ Strength athletes have strong hearts as well, I am pretty certain of that. So basically I believe you just associate a strong heart with cardio just because of the word.
Cardio is training your cardiovascular system. Doing 15 rep squats does train your cardio system and strengthen your heart. Looking at pro athletes life expectancy is pointless. They are almost all doped and that has huge health risks. Not to mention even clean top level endurance sports might have some health risks. Sprinters do cardio or else they can't sprint. Maybe you think cardio is only aerobic exercise and walking on the treadmill with 110 bpm heartrate. Working your cardio system is cardio. If you bench press or do sit ups you don't elevate your heart rate at all. Elevating to 110 is actually quite low unless you are really old. The health benefits of cardio differ with different heart rate zones. And the lower the heart rate, the longer you have to be in that heart rate zone anyway. Doing upper body lifting puts you in 110 for only a few minutes of total time. It does very little. Doing some squats taking you up to 170 or 190 is much better. It's a good form of anerobic cardio. It doesn't burn a lot of calories, but that is another concern if it is one at all. Aerobic and anaerobic exercise train different pathways and systems in the body. It all depends on how much your heart rate is elevated. And higher elevations can't be maintained for a long duration. Elevating to 170 for a few seconds does not amount to much if you can elevate it to 130 or 140 for 30 minutes to an hour. Still, you need to do some form of HIIT for better performance and improve your lactate system. For VO2max improving you also need to move near the anaerobic range. Aerobic-Anaerobic isn't black and white. Both systems are always used. It's a matter of percentages. Both systems should ideally be trained. Squatting can help with the anaerobic part. Bench press does not. So how is strength training good for your health? The fact that a strong cardiovascular system protects you against heart disease should be such a no-brainer, it isn't even funny that apparently for you it isn't. You don't have any people in your surrounding that have heart disease? What do the doctors measure and scan for? What kind of medication do they get? You don't even have to read the literature or have to know how to use google to know. Working on your cardio system first and on strength training second is the right goal for everyone in their right mind. I am deciding that for you right here right now. If you think differently you are either the .01% exception or just dead wrong. The reason people here get injured lifting weights is because they are doing it wrong. Not because they are pushing themselves. Also, some forms of solo sports have dangers of injury as well. But there also, if you get injured your training program was wrong, There is a guy here that wants to run a marathon on a dare in 6 weeks. He is wrong and I told him so. Running is for runners only. If you are not a runner, you have to slowly become one first before running can be your cardio of choice. Many people that talk about runners are and have always been runners, myself included, and they take this for granted. If you have never run, risk of injury is great when you do start. Running is not a form of cardio I would recommend for beginners. Fact remains that for most people the risks of injury with cardio are very low. And yes, sports injuries risks sometimes have to be accepted. But that's almost entirely team-based sports. If you are lifting weights and risking injuries, you are just making a mistake. If you do it right, the risk of injury should be minimal. Now, we have to learn through mistakes, but that's a different issue. Cardio gets more efficient at burning calories the more fitness, performance and endurance you have. The faster you can run or cycle or the more resistance you can put on your cardio machine, the more calories you'll burn in the same amount of time. It is extremely strange to see someone suggest the opposite. What do you think happens when you get in better shape? Nothing? And it's just that many of you care so much about burning calories and losing weight. But it's not for nothing that pro body builders, that are on insane levels of steroids and that lift crazy amounts, use cardio to lose fat. They hate cardio but they just have to to compete. JingleHell, please leave the trolling to daigomi. At least he is actually blue. A strong core is essential for proper form when lifting free weights. If your core is too weak, you can't lift heavy weights without using bad form and risking injuries. A strong core saves your back when doing squats. You want a strong core first before you load a weight on your shoulders you can only lift 5 times. There are people out there that have no sports/fitness/exercise histories at all. There are people out there with bad posture, muscle imbalances, proneness to back problems or even spine shape defects. They are all told the same cookie cutter program. Eats lot of protein, satured fat not a problem, lift heavy with SS, be sore every day, alcohol or lack of sleep not a problem, see you in the injury thread if you are unlucky, gg. You people claim the rate of injury here is nothing special. But the widespread idea that you can just lift heavy weights without supervision with a core that isn't properly conditioned beforehand just explains why there are so many more injuries here than among normal strength training and weight lifting circles. The wrong info being repeated over and over by the regulars here does its damage.
Sigh, here we go again.
First, the guy said he's going to gym to find out which part of his body he needs to train the most and he plans on working out his entire body. Don't be obtuse and claim that his goals with going to gym and training his entire body, specifically his abs, is to do cardio since it's clearly to gain strength. Add to that the fact that the historical average in this forum is that roughly 90% of people are interested in building strength rather than cardio, we could guess that that was his goal without him having said anything. The conditional probability that he wants to gain strength given that he is interested in training his body, especially his abs, would be even higher than the normal probability.
Secondly, I'm not sure how you were mistreated and I apologize for that. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that all your posts here seem to have an agenda that is different from purely answering people's questions.
Regarding all the info about cardiovascular disease, I'd also be interested in seeing research stating specifically that cardio is so much better than strength training that, regardless of your health and fitness goals, you should do cardio over strength, because that is what you are advising. Please note that I do not dispute that cardio is good for your cardiovascular health, I'm disputing that it is the only option for good cardiovascular heatlh, so linking studies saying that jogging is good for your heart won't be useful. In the mean time, here are a few articles saying that resistance training is good for your health. Once again, note that I don't have to show that it's better than pure cardio since I never made that claim, I only claimed that it is good for your health and more in line with the three goals of most TLHF members:
http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu/Web2007/ExerciseComp.htm
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/CIRCULATIONAHA.107.185214v1
http://weighttraining.about.com/od/techniquesandstrategies/a/weight-training-aerobic-training.htm
Here's a quote from the American Heart Association (who I'm sure we can agree no more about what's good for cardiovascular health than you do):
I'll quote the abstract from the American Heart Association article:
Prescribed and supervised resistance training (RT) enhances muscular strength and endurance, functional
capacity and independence, and quality of life while reducing disability in persons with and without cardiovascular
disease. These benefits have made RT an accepted component of programs for health and fitness. The American Heart
Association recommendations describing the rationale for participation in and considerations for prescribing RT were
published in 2000. This update provides current information regarding the (1) health benefits of RT, (2) impact of RT
on the cardiovascular system structure and function, (3) role of RT in modifying cardiovascular disease risk factors, (4)
benefits in selected populations, (5) process of medical evaluation for participation in RT, and (6) prescriptive methods.
The purpose of this update is to provide clinicians with recommendations to facilitate the use of this valuable modality.
Also note that my girlfriend's heart rate averaged 110 for 2 hours in sessions that, on average, consist of 30 minutes of exercise and 90 minutes of rest. This exercise is typically split about 50-50 in terms of upper-body and lower-body as well, with half the sessions including bench and chin-ups and the other half including overhead press and power cleans. So even with all this rest, she averaged 110 heart rate for a long period of time. When it comes to the different heart zones you mention, it's typically split roughly 10-35-55 with her heart rate being in the moderate intensity zone 35% of the time. That's considerably more than elevating your heart rate for a few seconds at a time. Either way, all of this anecdotal evidence is unimportant when you have scientific evidence staring you in the face.
Nobody disputed that a strong cardiovascular system protects you against heart disease, they argued that doing pure "cardio" isn't the only way to get a strong cardiovascular system. I believe Malinor also pointed out that you're placing too much emphasis on heart disease which I tend to agree with. That's not to say that heart disease isn't a problem, but it's not everybody's top priority. If you look at the people who come to the TLHF forums, very few people list "want to stop myself from developing a heart problem" as one of their primary goals. As such, providing advice purely on the basis of stopping heart problems isn't appropriate, since it's not what people ask for.
How do you know how people get injured on here? Malinor himself gave an example of how he got injured and that was because he was jogging and was a pure accident. It had nothing to do with doing it wrong. Decafchicken recently got a small injury, and he must have done more than 10,000 squats in his life. He's not doing it wrong, people just get injured. Also, how do you know that it's not because people push themselves too hard? On what evidence do you base that assertion? If you read the posts on TLHF, people are pushing themselves hard, so it has to be a possibility that it contributes to the injury.
Added to that, the idea that people typically only injure themselves with team sports is completely off. I tore a ligament in my foot playing cricket (which is pretty much individual), I sprained tons of muscles during the same time, I had some major injury to my arm playing squash (can't remember what it was, but I had to wear a sling for 4 weeks). All of these were individual injuries and had nothing to do with me doing it wrong. Similarly, my dad has injured his hamstring muscles multiple times playing squash and he's got a recurrent shoulder problem. Once again, injuries happen when doing physical activities and it has nothing to do with weightlifting.
How do you know the rate of injury here is something special? Do you have the base rates to compare the population here with other populations? Do you account for other factors, like the intensity of the training here, the speed with which strength is gained, or even the fact that we have a resident expert who makes asking questions about even minor injuries worth it? The fact is, you have no idea if the rate of injuries here is high or not. All you know is that, in a forum with thousands of members, over the course of a year, lots of injuries have been logged. You have no idea how much that is relative to anything else.
As I said, a strong core is very important in compound exercises. That is why you do them. The first time you do squats, you do it on a weight which your core can handle. That was 35kg for me. That is how exercise work. The next time you lift, your core is a tiny bit stronger so you lift a tiny bit more weight. You keep doing that until at some point you have a strong core. That's how you exercise all muscles, why would the core be any different? When you want to be a jogger, you don't spend 3 months doing leg press first because leg strength is crucial in avoiding jogging exercises. You start jogging on a slow speed and work your way up. This is exactly the same
As I pointed out in my previous post, I had no history of strength training and I started with SS. I had bad posture, muscle imbalances, and everthing else that goes with it. That's why I started the weights light and worked my way up. That's how the program works, that's why it's called Starting Strength.
One last thing, keep your posting mannered or you will get banned. Don't tell people they are trolling when they are providing reasonable counter arguments and don't act like other people are idiots. And if you want to make a big statement like:
Working on your cardio system first and on strength training second is the right goal for everyone in their right mind. I am deciding that for you right here right now. If you think differently you are either the .01% exception or just dead wrong.
Make sure to back it up with some form of research or some form of support. You cannot just make proclamations and the call everybody who does not buy it crazy and dead wrong without offering some form of support.
|
I'm just gonna add that there isn't any reason AT ALL to do slow steady cardio if you don't want to, and that if you have limited time to train, spend all of it on strength training.
How no cardio looks like, seems pretty unhealthy to me.
![[image loading]](http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1106/1410872951_27bc2c3002.jpg)
Retards will tell you he looks like that because of steroids, not because he lifts heavy weights for hours a day.Ya that guy juices (consumes steroids), so does this guy prolly, but he loves to do cardio. 2012 olympics marathon gold winner; notice you couldn't even tell 100% he is man from the picture.
![[image loading]](http://ph.cdn.photos.upi.com/Foto/ol/upi/78681af5d72d83bd1771b10f84871b1b/Mens-Marathon-at-2012-Olympics-in-London_97_1.jpg)
Before steroids existed, behold the hazards of lifting heavy stuff, eating shitloads of meat and not doing cardio.
![[image loading]](http://api.ning.com/files/95zZfBYHEwNWg4na1DEUs*TxBXWKMEslKaVaczPJpTqdwGOLOUPWlTdGpnEHpHBuxw8e1jzzswBk3MY*gh4W4lZFaAV1INW5/HalteraHalterofiliaArthurSaxon.JPG)
Saxon
During his childhood, this guy was so small and weak his family actually expected him to die of weakness. He never got taller than 5 3", but outlifted people twice his size for fun.
![[image loading]](http://www.triedandtruefitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/max.jpg)
Maxick.
Sometimes, all the discussion and studies in the world is fucking pointless when compared to gazillion anecdotal evidence and a bit of logic.
Also next time you are in the gym, feel free to look at the people on bike machines or bosu balls, and then compare them to the ones lifting weights.
|
On September 09 2012 00:04 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:22 slOosh wrote:
My goals would be to incorporate training into my schedule around the range of 3times a week for a healthier lifestyle. I don't know what numbers to aim for because I don't even know what numbers I am currently at.
As for the SS exercises, I'm a slow reader and still going through squats, and I guess I figured that bodyweight exercises were less technically demanding and could act as a substitute until I can get to the latter parts of the book. I mean, what are you aiming to do if you have no idea. Are you looking to get stronger? Are you looking to gain muscle mass? Are you looking to learn how to be able to sprint faster or jump higher? Or are you looking to be able to do some of the things gymnasts do? Generally speaking, if you need help with settings goals find out the direction you want to go and then ask some of us who have more experience what would be good goals to aim for...
Oh I see. I'm interested in doing tricks like the ones in beastskills (handstand, one arm pull up, etc.), but more than that I'm looking for general flexibility and strength because I feel like I have weak joints (like I sometimes hear clicking when rotating my ankle, or my knee feels funny if I do a couple of bodyweight squats).
|
How deep should I be going in my squat? (Just normal squats from starting strength). Atm I can only go to about thighs parallel with floor, but I see other people at gym go to varying depths.
|
On September 10 2012 11:27 ThunderGod wrote:
How deep should I be going in my squat? (Just normal squats from starting strength). Atm I can only go to about thighs parallel with floor, but I see other people at gym go to varying depths.
do you have the flexibility and strength to go deeper? if so, you can definitely try it with a lighter weight. if not, parallel is fine.
|
On September 10 2012 11:50 ieatkids5 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 11:27 ThunderGod wrote:
How deep should I be going in my squat? (Just normal squats from starting strength). Atm I can only go to about thighs parallel with floor, but I see other people at gym go to varying depths. do you have the flexibility and strength to go deeper? if so, you can definitely try it with a lighter weight. if not, parallel is fine.
Yeah I can go deeper with a lighter weight, but if its not necessary for a proper technique then I will keep with the weight I have. Thanks.
|
On September 10 2012 11:20 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:04 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2012 01:22 slOosh wrote:
My goals would be to incorporate training into my schedule around the range of 3times a week for a healthier lifestyle. I don't know what numbers to aim for because I don't even know what numbers I am currently at.
As for the SS exercises, I'm a slow reader and still going through squats, and I guess I figured that bodyweight exercises were less technically demanding and could act as a substitute until I can get to the latter parts of the book. I mean, what are you aiming to do if you have no idea. Are you looking to get stronger? Are you looking to gain muscle mass? Are you looking to learn how to be able to sprint faster or jump higher? Or are you looking to be able to do some of the things gymnasts do? Generally speaking, if you need help with settings goals find out the direction you want to go and then ask some of us who have more experience what would be good goals to aim for... Oh I see. I'm interested in doing tricks like the ones in beastskills (handstand, one arm pull up, etc.), but more than that I'm looking for general flexibility and strength because I feel like I have weak joints (like I sometimes hear clicking when rotating my ankle, or my knee feels funny if I do a couple of bodyweight squats).
Read this and build a routine then!
http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/the-fundamentals-of-bodyweight-strength-training/
|
On September 10 2012 12:05 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 11:20 slOosh wrote:On September 09 2012 00:04 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2012 01:22 slOosh wrote:
My goals would be to incorporate training into my schedule around the range of 3times a week for a healthier lifestyle. I don't know what numbers to aim for because I don't even know what numbers I am currently at.
As for the SS exercises, I'm a slow reader and still going through squats, and I guess I figured that bodyweight exercises were less technically demanding and could act as a substitute until I can get to the latter parts of the book. I mean, what are you aiming to do if you have no idea. Are you looking to get stronger? Are you looking to gain muscle mass? Are you looking to learn how to be able to sprint faster or jump higher? Or are you looking to be able to do some of the things gymnasts do? Generally speaking, if you need help with settings goals find out the direction you want to go and then ask some of us who have more experience what would be good goals to aim for... Oh I see. I'm interested in doing tricks like the ones in beastskills (handstand, one arm pull up, etc.), but more than that I'm looking for general flexibility and strength because I feel like I have weak joints (like I sometimes hear clicking when rotating my ankle, or my knee feels funny if I do a couple of bodyweight squats). Read this and build a routine then! http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/the-fundamentals-of-bodyweight-strength-training/
For manna, and I suppose all the other bodyweight exercises, is there a good internet site where can I learn the skills?
Push: Wall HS, Push up
Pull: Pull up, Tuck
Leg: Air squat (which I assume is squat without weights)
Would this be an ok way to start? And how do I choose a good range (time or rep numbers)?
|
South Africa4316 Posts
On September 10 2012 12:02 ThunderGod wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 11:50 ieatkids5 wrote:On September 10 2012 11:27 ThunderGod wrote:
How deep should I be going in my squat? (Just normal squats from starting strength). Atm I can only go to about thighs parallel with floor, but I see other people at gym go to varying depths. do you have the flexibility and strength to go deeper? if so, you can definitely try it with a lighter weight. if not, parallel is fine. Yeah I can go deeper with a lighter weight, but if its not necessary for a proper technique then I will keep with the weight I have. Thanks.
Generally it's recommended that you go until your thighs parallel with the floor. However, that's not "almost" parallel, it's properly parallel so if you are not 100% sure you are going until your thighs are parallel with the floor, you should decrease the weight a bit and go a bit deeper.
On September 10 2012 12:51 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 12:05 eshlow wrote:On September 10 2012 11:20 slOosh wrote:On September 09 2012 00:04 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2012 01:22 slOosh wrote:
My goals would be to incorporate training into my schedule around the range of 3times a week for a healthier lifestyle. I don't know what numbers to aim for because I don't even know what numbers I am currently at.
As for the SS exercises, I'm a slow reader and still going through squats, and I guess I figured that bodyweight exercises were less technically demanding and could act as a substitute until I can get to the latter parts of the book. I mean, what are you aiming to do if you have no idea. Are you looking to get stronger? Are you looking to gain muscle mass? Are you looking to learn how to be able to sprint faster or jump higher? Or are you looking to be able to do some of the things gymnasts do? Generally speaking, if you need help with settings goals find out the direction you want to go and then ask some of us who have more experience what would be good goals to aim for... Oh I see. I'm interested in doing tricks like the ones in beastskills (handstand, one arm pull up, etc.), but more than that I'm looking for general flexibility and strength because I feel like I have weak joints (like I sometimes hear clicking when rotating my ankle, or my knee feels funny if I do a couple of bodyweight squats). Read this and build a routine then! http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/the-fundamentals-of-bodyweight-strength-training/ For manna, and I suppose all the other bodyweight exercises, is there a good internet site where can I learn the skills? Push: Wall HS, Push up Pull: Pull up, Tuck Leg: Air squat (which I assume is squat without weights) Would this be an ok way to start? And how do I choose a good range (time or rep numbers)?
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you had in mind, but http://www.beastskills.com/ generally has good tutorials on doing bodyweight exercises. Eshlow also wrote a book on bodyweight training, but that focuses more on the gymnastic movements like planche and L-sit from what I know (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, as far as I know, an air squat is not exactly the same as a bodyweight squat. It is a squat without weights, but you must maintain an upright back position without any buttwink for the duration of the squat. That makes it considerably harder.
|
On September 10 2012 12:51 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 12:05 eshlow wrote:On September 10 2012 11:20 slOosh wrote:On September 09 2012 00:04 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2012 01:22 slOosh wrote:
My goals would be to incorporate training into my schedule around the range of 3times a week for a healthier lifestyle. I don't know what numbers to aim for because I don't even know what numbers I am currently at.
As for the SS exercises, I'm a slow reader and still going through squats, and I guess I figured that bodyweight exercises were less technically demanding and could act as a substitute until I can get to the latter parts of the book. I mean, what are you aiming to do if you have no idea. Are you looking to get stronger? Are you looking to gain muscle mass? Are you looking to learn how to be able to sprint faster or jump higher? Or are you looking to be able to do some of the things gymnasts do? Generally speaking, if you need help with settings goals find out the direction you want to go and then ask some of us who have more experience what would be good goals to aim for... Oh I see. I'm interested in doing tricks like the ones in beastskills (handstand, one arm pull up, etc.), but more than that I'm looking for general flexibility and strength because I feel like I have weak joints (like I sometimes hear clicking when rotating my ankle, or my knee feels funny if I do a couple of bodyweight squats). Read this and build a routine then! http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/the-fundamentals-of-bodyweight-strength-training/ For manna, and I suppose all the other bodyweight exercises, is there a good internet site where can I learn the skills? Push: Wall HS, Push up Pull: Pull up, Tuck Leg: Air squat (which I assume is squat without weights) Would this be an ok way to start? And how do I choose a good range (time or rep numbers)?
Check out the OP in the bodyweight training thread. The last spoiler contains useful resources. And you'll find eshlow's modified prilepin tables for eccentrics and isometrics in that post as well. Eshlow's book is still the number one thing I'd recommend. It's not really that focused on gymnastics alone. The book has a large index of different types of exercises and a few examples of a more static gymnastics skills based training v.s. a more varied strength concentrics approach. (IIRC eshlow even prefers the latter) Many of the gymnastic skills just happen to be things people interested in bw training want to learn. (planche -.-). And if you don't use any additional weights with bw training you'll pretty much end up doing some of the stuff from gymnastics even if you don't build them up into an actual gymnastics routine.
Also I'm not sure what you mean with the 'Tuck' in your pull exercises. I'm guessing either tuck BL or FL? Might want to add in L-sit work. You still haven't really stated that many concrete goals. You mentioned one armed pull up and handstand. For those your selection of exercises seems fine at the moment. A very general rule for concentric reps and sets: 3-4 sets with just the last one close to or to failure with 5-8 reps. Once your at 8 reps each set then move up to a harder variation.
|
Hey guys... A few questions for you 
About me:+ Show Spoiler +
So I have been starting to get into working out the last 6 months or so.. But I really have just been doing whatever I feel like.
I put on a lot of weight and wasn't happy with the way I looked so I started to run a few days a week and lift when I could.
I was at 187 lbs when I started (I'm 6'0) and now I am at 172 lbs.. Not bad for not really knowing what to do.
Lately, however, I have been getting into it a bit more. I got on a pretty good routine that I am able to stay consitent with.
I lift three days a week and run at least 2 more days. Here is what I've been doing:
Day one: Tris/Chest
Day two: Bis/Shoulders
Day three: Back (this one I am not consistent with)
Note: I usually do 3-4 sets of 14 reps at a lighter weight.
I am pretty good at watching my deit and stuff, and I know what's good for me to eat and what isn't. I am a vegetarian, so that makes things a bit more difficult but I still manage.
My questions:+ Show Spoiler +
I now realize that I wasn't working out the right way to get the results I wanted.
I just was reading the General Nutrition thread and I came across this "You have to put sufficient stress on a muscle to get it to grow. That is much easier done with heavy weights in the 5-8 repetition range (which, incidentally, is about the best repetition range for hypertrophy)."
How do I do that? Like should I be aiming for 3 sets of 6-7 reps? Or 4 sets? 5?
Also is the way I had my workout days split up okay? (See about me section)
How much cardio should I add in? I do enjoy running a bit, but I read in the other thread that it isn't too important for weight loss.
Edit:+ Show Spoiler +Okay.. I'm home now. Time for some more Info. So my end goal would be to look like the guy from Immortals lol. + Show Spoiler +I have some gym equipment at home that I have available (machine that I can do pretty much anything but legs on, small number of dumbbells, treadmill, pool.) Starting next week I will also have access to my school gym which I will use the two days a week that I am on campus. Any other workouts will be at home.
I have to leave work now so I will edit this post with any information you guys need.
Thanks and I really do appeciate the help!
|
On September 11 2012 07:56 LovE- wrote:Hey guys... A few questions for you About me: + Show Spoiler +
So I have been starting to get into working out the last 6 months or so.. But I really have just been doing whatever I feel like.
I put on a lot of weight and wasn't happy with the way I looked so I started to run a few days a week and lift when I could.
I was at 187 lbs when I started (I'm 6'0) and now I am at 172 lbs.. Not bad for not really knowing what to do.
Lately, however, I have been getting into it a bit more. I got on a pretty good routine that I am able to stay consitent with.
I lift three days a week and run at least 2 more days. Here is what I've been doing:
Day one: Tris/Chest
Day two: Bis/Shoulders
Day three: Back (this one I am not consistent with)
Note: I usually do 3-4 sets of 14 reps at a lighter weight.
I am pretty good at watching my deit and stuff, and I know what's good for me to eat and what isn't. I am a vegetarian, so that makes things a bit more difficult but I still manage.
My questions: + Show Spoiler +
I now realize that I wasn't working out the right way to get the results I wanted.
I just was reading the General Nutrition thread and I came across this "You have to put sufficient stress on a muscle to get it to grow. That is much easier done with heavy weights in the 5-8 repetition range (which, incidentally, is about the best repetition range for hypertrophy)."
How do I do that? Like should I be aiming for 3 sets of 6-7 reps? Or 4 sets? 5?
Also is the way I had my workout days split up okay? (See about me section)
How much cardio should I add in? I do enjoy running a bit, but I read in the other thread that it isn't too important for weight loss.
Edit: + Show Spoiler +Okay.. I'm home now. Time for some more Info. So my end goal would be to look like the guy from Immortals lol. + Show Spoiler +I have some gym equipment at home that I have available (machine that I can do pretty much anything but legs on, small number of dumbbells, treadmill, pool.) Starting next week I will also have access to my school gym which I will use the two days a week that I am on campus. Any other workouts will be at home. I have to leave work now so I will edit this post with any information you guys need. Thanks and I really do appeciate the help!
read this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261928
it'll answer all your questions about your routine.
as for cardio, if you like running, then go for it. sure, it doesnt burn that many calories, but it doesn't mean it has no health benefits. you can do some light running after you finish a workout or during your restine days.
|
Zurich15328 Posts
Gym over here doesn't allow chalk and deadlifts. Any suggestion what I can temporarily do in place of DL (in a vanilla SS program)?
|
Unfortunately I don't have any of the equipment to do those workouts right now and no money to buy them. I can attempt to do them at school but I know that area is always packed and guys wait for a long time to use them so I don't know if I will have the time.
|
If you can't lift weights, look into the body weight thread's OP, it's got great info, and while it's harder to get the same types of intensity and results, you can still get excellent intensity and results for most things with body weight.
|
infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On September 11 2012 11:21 zatic wrote:
Gym over here doesn't allow chalk and deadlifts. Any suggestion what I can temporarily do in place of DL (in a vanilla SS program)?
Liquid chalk?
Are you allowed to do PCs?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.flicksandbits.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/immortals-henry-cavill.jpg)
