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England2670 Posts
On May 01 2012 19:38 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
Hi, I'm a 14 year old guy and I actually have a sort of general question that's probably been asked/answered multiple times, but I just really am not sure.
I'm not in bad shape, I'm about 5' 6", weigh 130 lbs and am pretty decently in shape. I am not great at running (I have bad allergies D: ) but I do a lot of weight lifting at my gym. Now, here's the catch: My mom doesn't want me to do free weights, I am restricted to the resistance machines and weight machines.
How bad is it to use weight machines compared to free weights? I have been getting good results from it (I do basic machines, generally the front row, back row, incline bench, chest press, a few different ab machines, a couple of leg machines, etc.) and I've had good progress, but am I hindering myself greatly by not using free weights? Sorry if this isn't the right thread, I just am not sure where to post this =/
I just want to say that you should probably listen to your Mum for at least a little while about using free weights. I used to go to the gym when I was 14-16 and our trainer would only let us touch the free weights when we were 16 and then with strict supervision when she knew us well enough to gauge that we'd be safe with them. It's too easy to cause a big injury to a developing body with free weights. If you do want to try them out, I suggest you ask a trainer first and have them help you.
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On May 02 2012 20:13 Jupiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 21:23 spacemonkeyy wrote:
If your eating paleo the weight loss will be gradual and generally not as extreme as with other diets, give it some time you seem to not be hugely out of shape so your weight loss will be slower than others particularly if it ins a stubborn area (insulin sensitive fat around the gut particualrly in men).
Other things to think about- are you getting plenty of good quality sleep? getting out doors- adequate vitamin D, are you stressed- any of these can make it hard to lose weight. How old are you? Anyway keep up what your doing have patience swap a few of those fruits for veges and I'm sure you will reap the benefits. I personally wouldn't get too carried away with calculating calories etc. make sure your exercising plenty of low level (walking etc.) with a few weight sessiosn and the occasional sprint. Whilst it can be useful to see what calories your eating if your sticking to low carb to lose weight your appetite should generally be a good guide. I disagree. Losing weight is calories in vs calories out. If you want to lose weight you have to eat under your daily calorie maintenance. Use a calorie counter to figure out what that is and then eat 500cals underneath that. How can eating paleo mean gradual weight loss if you eat the same amount of calories as any other diet? also are you talking about stress making him unable to lose weight because some people are more likely to eat when they are stressed? or something else?
Whilst technically true there is an easy way and a hard way to lose weight. Less carbohydrate intake is related to less insulin production / fat storage --> more fat mobilisation/burning. High protein/fat food also has a much bigger effect on leptin release/sensitivity so that we are more satisfied with fewer calories. So whilst it still is calories in - calories out type deal the form of the calories definitiely influences how our metabolism functions and also influences how your body is going to function on that ammount of calories. Going paleo is much more easy to naturally calorie restrict than a high carbohydrate diet- so much so I would try just eating paleo with low carb to lose weight and using hunger as a guide but still making sure not to overeat rather than calorie count. This is why I say this type of intuitive weight loss is slower as your not starving yourself- if you calorie restrict sure you can lose weight really fast with paleo just like any other diet.
To your second question reguarding stress here is one mechanism
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20070702/stress-unlocks-fat-cells-ups-obesity?src=RSS_Public
Basically chronic stress = high blood cortisol --> cortisol stimulates gluconeogenesis (spikes blood glucose levels for a fight or flight response) it also makes the cells more insulin resistant via Glut 4 cell membrane translocator--> long term this leads to obesity among other factors
On May 03 2012 04:56 Ingenol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 20:13 Jupiter wrote:On May 01 2012 21:23 spacemonkeyy wrote:
If your eating paleo the weight loss will be gradual and generally not as extreme as with other diets, give it some time you seem to not be hugely out of shape so your weight loss will be slower than others particularly if it ins a stubborn area (insulin sensitive fat around the gut particualrly in men).
Other things to think about- are you getting plenty of good quality sleep? getting out doors- adequate vitamin D, are you stressed- any of these can make it hard to lose weight. How old are you? Anyway keep up what your doing have patience swap a few of those fruits for veges and I'm sure you will reap the benefits. I personally wouldn't get too carried away with calculating calories etc. make sure your exercising plenty of low level (walking etc.) with a few weight sessiosn and the occasional sprint. Whilst it can be useful to see what calories your eating if your sticking to low carb to lose weight your appetite should generally be a good guide. I disagree. Losing weight is calories in vs calories out. If you want to lose weight you have to eat under your daily calorie maintenance. Use a calorie counter to figure out what that is and then eat 500cals underneath that. How can eating paleo mean gradual weight loss if you eat the same amount of calories as any other diet? also are you talking about stress making him unable to lose weight because some people are more likely to eat when they are stressed? or something else? I disagree with spacemonkeyy in that weight loss will be more gradual with a paleo diet (for a given caloric deficit, that is), but keep in mind that although losing weight is technically "calories in vs calories out," what we're discovering now is that the type of calories you take in actually affect your calories out. There are all sorts of things related to the thermic effect of food (meal frequency/size can affect calories out) as well as leptin and body set-point (type of calories in can affect calories out). Stress/sleep can also affect calories out.
See above- basically I concor
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Going paleo is much more easy to naturally calorie restrict than a high carbohydrate diet- so much so I would try just eating paleo with low carb to lose weight and using hunger as a guide but still making sure not to overeat rather than calorie count.
I dont think paleo is bad in any way. Its a good diet. I still think if someone wants to lose weight while retaining there muscle then they should count calories. If its just to lose weight then just going by feel is ok. (unless they are complaining that they eat next to nothing and dont lose weight...)
Whilst technically true there is an easy way and a hard way to lose weight. Less carbohydrate intake is related to less insulin production / fat storage --> more fat mobilisation/burning. High protein/fat food also has a much bigger effect on leptin release/sensitivity so that we are more satisfied with fewer calories. So whilst it still is calories in - calories out type deal the form of the calories definitiely influences how our metabolism functions and also influences how your body is going to function on that ammount of calories.
In regards to insulin production / fat storage. I think this might be an interesting article for you to read - http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
I always think its good to look at both sides of the story though. So I appreciate the responses on this.
Thanks for the link to the article. I just wanted to clarify what you meant exactly.
There are all sorts of things related to the thermic effect of food (meal frequency/size can affect calories out)
dont have time to reply to this but will when I get a chance
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Strained my hip at TKD today, I guess somewhere in the hip flexor, just a bit too far forward to stretch properly with a butterfly. Any suggestions on stretches?
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From my experience, one of the deepest hip flexor stretches is to simply lie on your back and pull your knee to your chest. Also, you can just play around with different positions to find that right spot.
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On May 01 2012 21:15 spacemonkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 19:38 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
Hi, I'm a 14 year old guy and I actually have a sort of general question that's probably been asked/answered multiple times, but I just really am not sure.
I'm not in bad shape, I'm about 5' 6", weigh 130 lbs and am pretty decently in shape. I am not great at running (I have bad allergies D: ) but I do a lot of weight lifting at my gym. Now, here's the catch: My mom doesn't want me to do free weights, I am restricted to the resistance machines and weight machines.
How bad is it to use weight machines compared to free weights? I have been getting good results from it (I do basic machines, generally the front row, back row, incline bench, chest press, a few different ab machines, a couple of leg machines, etc.) and I've had good progress, but am I hindering myself greatly by not using free weights? Sorry if this isn't the right thread, I just am not sure where to post this =/ What is your goal? The machines generally have less potential to cause injuries as they generally limit the directions of movement. Free weights are good and provided you have someone watch you and make sure your doing it 100% ok it would be advantageous to mix in a little free weights. That being said with your age and already getting results I would stick with what your doing for now- don't expect to put on massive ammounts of muscle at 14 y.o. If want to be lean and strong you don't need free weights. You should mix in some push ups, squats (non weighted) and chin ups. Also what allergies? Current medication/diet?
Thank you for the help. Umm, my goals are just to stay in good shape and to be lean, but I'd like to be stronger too (I'm 14 though so I'd prefer to stay healthy and safe lol). I do push ups and pull ups if those count for anything. When I tested myself, I could do 8/9 pull ups and push ups...I just do a bunch when I do it (generally like 3 sets of 20 or something). Thanks though, it seems like the free weights are better for building lots of muscle but like you said, at 14 years old I can't put on that much muscle (although I've filled out a good amount and have definitely gotten much stronger).
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South Africa4316 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:57 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 21:15 spacemonkeyy wrote:On May 01 2012 19:38 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
Hi, I'm a 14 year old guy and I actually have a sort of general question that's probably been asked/answered multiple times, but I just really am not sure.
I'm not in bad shape, I'm about 5' 6", weigh 130 lbs and am pretty decently in shape. I am not great at running (I have bad allergies D: ) but I do a lot of weight lifting at my gym. Now, here's the catch: My mom doesn't want me to do free weights, I am restricted to the resistance machines and weight machines.
How bad is it to use weight machines compared to free weights? I have been getting good results from it (I do basic machines, generally the front row, back row, incline bench, chest press, a few different ab machines, a couple of leg machines, etc.) and I've had good progress, but am I hindering myself greatly by not using free weights? Sorry if this isn't the right thread, I just am not sure where to post this =/ What is your goal? The machines generally have less potential to cause injuries as they generally limit the directions of movement. Free weights are good and provided you have someone watch you and make sure your doing it 100% ok it would be advantageous to mix in a little free weights. That being said with your age and already getting results I would stick with what your doing for now- don't expect to put on massive ammounts of muscle at 14 y.o. If want to be lean and strong you don't need free weights. You should mix in some push ups, squats (non weighted) and chin ups. Also what allergies? Current medication/diet? Thank you for the help. Umm, my goals are just to stay in good shape and to be lean, but I'd like to be stronger too (I'm 14 though so I'd prefer to stay healthy and safe lol). I do push ups and pull ups if those count for anything. When I tested myself, I could do 8/9 pull ups and push ups...I just do a bunch when I do it (generally like 3 sets of 20 or something). Thanks though, it seems like the free weights are better for building lots of muscle but like you said, at 14 years old I can't put on that much muscle (although I've filled out a good amount and have definitely gotten much stronger).
Yeah, I'm not sure about whether the risk of free weights is higher if you're still young, but free weights definitely have a bigger risk of injury than machines. When you're older, you're free to take this risk and get injured every now and again, but if you're younger your parents probably won't be happy if you pick up injuries, so in that sense it's probably easier to not use free weights.
Personally, I'd suggest looking into some kind of exercise program which you can follow. Just doing random exercises is ok, but it's considerably less efficient (and less rewarding) than following a well-planned out exercise regime. You could probably look into doing a bodyweight routine (there's a thread on that on TL) since that would still contain mostly compound exercises (exercises training lots of muscles simultaneously) but without the risk of injury of free weight compound exercises.
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Oh, excellent, thanks. That was exactly what I needed.
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On May 04 2012 23:55 JingleHell wrote:Oh, excellent, thanks. That was exactly what I needed.
No problem  If the stretching doesn't do much for it you can look into a foam roller. Very nice to have for tight muscles.
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On May 04 2012 01:22 Jupiter wrote:Going paleo is much more easy to naturally calorie restrict than a high carbohydrate diet- so much so I would try I dont think paleo is bad in any way. Its a good diet. I still think if someone wants to lose weight while retaining there muscle then they should count calories. If its just to lose weight then just going by feel is ok. (unless they are complaining that they eat next to nothing and dont lose weight...) In regards to insulin production / fat storage. I think this might be an interesting article for you to read - http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319I always think its good to look at both sides of the story though. So I appreciate the responses on this.
Thanks for the article! Theres a few flaws in some of the studies (High protein low carb being 50/50 with 75 g carb for one meal- not to mention they were both shakes not real food) but overall I think it is around the mark. It's all about satiety, energy density and generally what carbohydrate rich foods promote within the body (high blood sugar- long term insulin resistance). But yes it is much more than just limiting insulin release. Carbohydrates nor insulin is the problem it is the combination of low activity- increasing refined carbohydrates in the diet- insulin/leptin resistance and promotion of foods that are very tasty but are not very satisfying. I still think to lose weight that carbohydrate intake is important unless you want to count calories because it generally doesn't suppres appetite. I think this quote is fitting from it.
"Now, you may be wondering why refined carbohydrates can be a problem. Many people think it’s due to the rapid spikes in insulin. However, it’s obviously not the insulin, because protein can cause rapid spikes in insulin as well. One problem with refined carbohydrate is a problem of energy density. With refined carbohydrate, it is easier to pack a lot of calories into a small package. Not only that, but foods with high energy density are often not as satiating as foods with low energy density. In fact, when it comes to high-carbohydrate foods, energy density is a strong predictor of a food’s ability to create satiety (i.e., low-energy density foods create more satiety). There are other issues with refined carbohydrate as well that are beyond the scope of this article."
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I just have a question about how do you get to really low body fat %? I am like 17% right now and my goal is to get down to 10%.
If i eat a healthy diet , do High intensity interval training and lift heavy weights , am i on the right path to get down to 10% ? My goal is not to gain to much muscle because i am fairly muscular already , i just want to lose body fat.
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On May 06 2012 18:41 Knap4life wrote:
I just have a question about how do you get to really low body fat %? I am like 17% right now and my goal is to get down to 10%.
If i eat a healthy diet , do High intensity interval training and lift heavy weights , am i on the right path to get down to 10% ? My goal is not to gain to much muscle because i am fairly muscular already , i just want to lose body fat.
Well dieting is the most important thing to losing weight, but the lower you are in bdfat% the harder it will get to burn fat. I would eat at 500kcals below maintenance a day, perhaps a smaller deficit on workout days.
As for us amateurs, we will lose muscles on a cut, the question is just how much we'll lose. And thats determined mostly by diet.
atleast thats how i feel about it, there's almost certainly someone in here who can give a more well educated answer.
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On May 06 2012 18:41 Knap4life wrote:
I just have a question about how do you get to really low body fat %? I am like 17% right now and my goal is to get down to 10%.
If i eat a healthy diet , do High intensity interval training and lift heavy weights , am i on the right path to get down to 10% ? My goal is not to gain to much muscle because i am fairly muscular already , i just want to lose body fat.
My anecdotal 2c. Work out and eat fewer calories than you burn. I've lost fifteen pounds over the course of three weeks now eating 1700 to 1800 calories a day.
Edit: I should add that cutting like I am is a horrible idea. I'm losing fat, but I'm also losing muscle. But I am vain :/
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South Africa4316 Posts
On May 06 2012 18:56 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 18:41 Knap4life wrote:
I just have a question about how do you get to really low body fat %? I am like 17% right now and my goal is to get down to 10%.
If i eat a healthy diet , do High intensity interval training and lift heavy weights , am i on the right path to get down to 10% ? My goal is not to gain to much muscle because i am fairly muscular already , i just want to lose body fat. My anecdotal 2c. Work out and eat fewer calories than you burn. I've lost fifteen pounds over the course of three weeks now eating 1700 to 1800 calories a day. Edit: I should add that cutting like I am is a horrible idea. I'm losing fat, but I'm also losing muscle. But I am vain :/
How in the world do you lose 7kg over 3 weeks eating 1700-1800? I'm eating almost exactly the same amount, and it's taken me around 3 months to lose 6kg (which I'm fairly happy with). I guess the flipside is I've definitely gotten stronger even during the cut: Pretty much all my exercises (squat, DL, press, etc.) have gone up by around 15% since I started cutting.
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Quite recently I started weightlifting, and I've been doing 3 times a week, doing pretty good progress I think. I've been weightlifting for about 3 weeks of SS now, and 2 weeks of some random bad program before that, and I'm quite motivated.
Now, this is the situation I'm going to be in during the following months:
3 workouts a week (high priority, going to keep doing SS)
5 days a week on a construction site with varying levels of physical strain included. Some will really consume energy, some days will be less so, but regardless, its about 6-8 hours of work each day there.
Running/golf on some off days, at least once or twice a week.
Now I just want a honest, educated opinion if I'm trying to tackle something too big for me over here. I will do construction work and SS normally and I don't want to interrupt with my gains too much. A little bit slower progress is negotiable though. I understand that it sort of contradicts getting max gains AND playing golf (which consumes tons of calories) and running too, so I'm wondering if it's even possible.
Obviously I'd have to eat more than ever in my life to get gains with that level of calorie consumption... and even bring food to the golf course just so that I can keep eating instead of having a 5 hour break without food.
I'm just curious if this is even physically possible, and if anyone has knowledge/experience on going about similarily. I'd really like to do all these things regularily during summer, but I understand if I have to leave something out so that I don't burn out or something, or overtrain.
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On May 07 2012 01:50 Ahzz wrote:
Quite recently I started weightlifting, and I've been doing 3 times a week, doing pretty good progress I think. I've been weightlifting for about 3 weeks of SS now, and 2 weeks of some random bad program before that, and I'm quite motivated.
Now, this is the situation I'm going to be in during the following months:
3 workouts a week (high priority, going to keep doing SS)
5 days a week on a construction site with varying levels of physical strain included. Some will really consume energy, some days will be less so, but regardless, its about 6-8 hours of work each day there.
Running/golf on some off days, at least once or twice a week.
Now I just want a honest, educated opinion if I'm trying to tackle something too big for me over here. I will do construction work and SS normally and I don't want to interrupt with my gains too much. A little bit slower progress is negotiable though. I understand that it sort of contradicts getting max gains AND playing golf (which consumes tons of calories) and running too, so I'm wondering if it's even possible.
Obviously I'd have to eat more than ever in my life to get gains with that level of calorie consumption... and even bring food to the golf course just so that I can keep eating instead of having a 5 hour break without food.
I'm just curious if this is even physically possible, and if anyone has knowledge/experience on going about similarily. I'd really like to do all these things regularily during summer, but I understand if I have to leave something out so that I don't burn out or something, or overtrain.
If you are starting to do all this from scratch you wont most likely wont be able to do it. But if your body is already accustomed to working 5 days a week on a construction site while playing golf you should be fine.
Same goes for running, if your body is accustomed to weightlifting 3xweek and working at the construction site 5xweek it can take some running, but your body will need rest at one point.
Diet has a major factor in this too, and I imagine you will have to eat a TON of food to combat your activity level.
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South Africa4316 Posts
On May 07 2012 01:50 Ahzz wrote:
Quite recently I started weightlifting, and I've been doing 3 times a week, doing pretty good progress I think. I've been weightlifting for about 3 weeks of SS now, and 2 weeks of some random bad program before that, and I'm quite motivated.
Now, this is the situation I'm going to be in during the following months:
3 workouts a week (high priority, going to keep doing SS)
5 days a week on a construction site with varying levels of physical strain included. Some will really consume energy, some days will be less so, but regardless, its about 6-8 hours of work each day there.
Running/golf on some off days, at least once or twice a week.
Now I just want a honest, educated opinion if I'm trying to tackle something too big for me over here. I will do construction work and SS normally and I don't want to interrupt with my gains too much. A little bit slower progress is negotiable though. I understand that it sort of contradicts getting max gains AND playing golf (which consumes tons of calories) and running too, so I'm wondering if it's even possible.
Obviously I'd have to eat more than ever in my life to get gains with that level of calorie consumption... and even bring food to the golf course just so that I can keep eating instead of having a 5 hour break without food.
I'm just curious if this is even physically possible, and if anyone has knowledge/experience on going about similarily. I'd really like to do all these things regularily during summer, but I understand if I have to leave something out so that I don't burn out or something, or overtrain.
Is there a reason you want to include running? I understand that you have to work, and that you probably enjoy playing golf, but the running doesn't make sense to me :p
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running is basically another part of my personal goals. I want to be able to do bodyweight training some day, and I want to maintain a really good running condition. ATM I'm capable of running about 3000m in 12 minutes of time. I want to maintain that, or a level very close to that while gaining muscle. Aside from that, no big reason to do it. However, doing a relatively small amount of running is also negotiable, I Doubt my running form will drop THAT much, and I think that I can gain it back relatively quickly once I've reached most of my major goals in weight lifting. It's still something that I would like to maintain tho.
I've done construction site work before, so im not totally new to it, though it will undoubtedly be straining at times.
I'm just wondering, there will be times when I'm lifting 24kg bricks a big part of the day. I dunno if I should do SS on those days?
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South Africa4316 Posts
On May 07 2012 02:34 Ahzz wrote:
running is basically another part of my personal goals. I want to be able to do bodyweight training some day, and I want to maintain a really good running condition. ATM I'm capable of running about 3000m in 12 minutes of time. I want to maintain that, or a level very close to that while gaining muscle. Aside from that, no big reason to do it. However, doing a relatively small amount of running is also negotiable, I Doubt my running form will drop THAT much, and I think that I can gain it back relatively quickly once I've reached most of my major goals in weight lifting. It's still something that I would like to maintain tho.
I've done construction site work before, so im not totally new to it, though it will undoubtedly be straining at times.
I'm just wondering, there will be times when I'm lifting 24kg bricks a big part of the day. I dunno if I should do SS on those days?
I don't know much about this, but I don't think it should be a massive problem as long as you eat a ton. Obviously it will be slightly less effective than a program with optimal rest, but it should still work. What I would probably do is decrease the volume of my workout on days when the construction work is really heavy, so instead of benching 5-5-5 on a hard day I would bench 3-4-5 with each successive set on lower weight, or something similar to that. I started using a program like that while cutting (since recovery is poor while cutting), and decreasing the workload has led to significant improvements in strength.
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EPT
