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On August 13 2011 05:28 Sneakyz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 05:22 bdictkam wrote:On August 12 2011 17:42 Malinor wrote:On August 12 2011 15:36 bdictkam wrote:
In my opinon body shock value is were its at, its best to do some weeks with high reps that reach fatigue in a decent timeframe, and some weeks with low reps that reach fatigue.
Its my hypothesis that people that just do low reps never get the hardest kind of looking muscle cause they body gets used to it, and people who jsut do high reps never get beyond a platue because of the same effect. Shocking your body is probably the highest important thing! This is just an educated guess... Works for cardio so why not weight training
esholw your link is someone asking peoples opinons, the link i posted is a scientific cycle that was done... lol the most scientific thing in yours was "tension in the muscle creates need for more".. which is what u can accomplish by reaching fatigue and the whole idea of your link is that you need to add weight periodicly or you wont gain, which is the same thing as shocking your system.
So idealy i think you should, change up rep counts, and every so often try to add a little weight :D thats the opinon ive gained from multiple perspectives ive learned, take it or leave it, i am not a pro You linked a 3 minute video with a pretty graph and a hot chick in it for christs sake "Body shock value"
"fatigue"
"hardest kind of looking muscle"
All you do is broscience here. You spill some shitty terms around like if they would mean anything. You just lack any decent understanding of what you are talking about, and the way you disregarded eshlow's link is speaking volumes. I am not saying everything you are saying is wrong. I.e. high reps/low reps can complement each other pretty well and both can be used efficiently. So changing things up is always good, but that is so trivial that it actually should go without saying. In other words, you have to do more research before you claim to know anything in here. And acefitness.org is probably not the place where you should start looking. Pretty graph and hot chick? You are ignorant as shit. Ive done tons of research, and u can plz dont claim to know how much research ive been doing and if u want to downplay an actual scientist compared to your sheeps view of how things are go ahead. If anything you lack understanding. And ace fitness just had that reported linked/reported you complete numbskull, doesnt mean it was carried out by them. Narrowminded. Do you claim to know how much research the other posters in this thread have done? ^_^
No, and i never wrote that i didnt think it was adaquet. But an individual such as the above can show a narrowminded view regardless. Any researched material that is provided by qualified scientific research would be welcomed here right? But years of opinons because "ive heard" or have read from a "blogger", is not well researched.
edit-so if you have reputatble studies please link im still absorbing as much info as i can
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Question:
If I want to lose a pound of fat a week while using ~800-1000 calories every other day when running, should I:
- Eat my normal 2200 calories a day and just lose the fat from the exercise, which is about 3-3.5k calories a week?
- Have a deficit of 500 a day: 1700 on non-training days and 2500-2700 on training days.
- Something in between (e.g. eat 2k on normal days and 2.2k when working out)?
- 1700 on normal days and only 2k when working out so I can lose more than 1 pound a week.
- Don't count calories and eat healthy food when I'm hungry.
If you want an example of the training; Today I did:
+ Show Spoiler +15' warm up jog (10 km/h)
10' skipping, stretching... exercises
4 x 60 m acceleration
4 x 50 m sprint
4 x 60 m sprint
4 x 80 m sprint
all sprints close to full speed. Rest between same distances = walking back. Rest between different distances = 10'
15' jog (6 km/h)
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@bdictkam I was gonna call it upon you, and just wanted to give you a warn. But someone in the higher ranks did it for me, and tempbanned you.
Behave and be kinder next time, no reason to call on bullshit on one of our most beloved thread members.
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For others confused by bdictkam, I believe he meant to link the studies, rather than some random youtube commercial. There were four of them referenced in there, two of them are useless for us since I doubt many of us are elderly/post-menopausal women. The other two are here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2918506/?tool=pubmed
http://edulife.com.br/dados\Artigos\Educacao Fisica\Musculação e Condicionamento Fisico\The Effects of 4 and 10 Repetition.pdf
I skimmed 'em, and I don't really know most of the science, but this is what I got from them:
First one's kinda interesting although I don't know how much weight to put in it, given that it was a one-time leg extension routine with no control. It suggests that moving a higher total tonnage is more beneficial for both sarcoplasmic & myofibrillar hypertrophy, despite moving a much lower weight, due to elevated protein synthesis lasting for a longer period of time.
The second study seems decent (although it only deals with untrained individuals so not really relevant), and basically suggests that there are minimal differences in forearm strength/size gains training 6x4RM vs 3x10RM after ten weeks. They didn't mention anything about diet though so I don't know whether they controlled that or not..
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On August 13 2011 06:18 JeeJee wrote:For others confused by bdictkam, I believe he meant to link the studies, rather than some random youtube commercial. There were four of them referenced in there, two of them are useless for us since I doubt many of us are elderly/post-menopausal women. The other two are here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2918506/?tool=pubmedhttp://edulife.com.br/dados\Artigos\Educacao Fisica\Musculação e Condicionamento Fisico\The Effects of 4 and 10 Repetition.pdfI skimmed 'em, and I don't really know most of the science, but this is what I got from them: First one's kinda interesting although I don't know how much weight to put in it, given that it was a one-time leg extension routine with no control. It suggests that moving a higher total tonnage is more beneficial for both sarcoplasmic & myofibrillar hypertrophy, despite moving a much lower weight, due to elevated protein synthesis lasting for a longer period of time. The second study seems decent (although it only deals with untrained individuals so not really relevant), and basically suggests that there are minimal differences in forearm strength/size gains training 6x4RM vs 3x10RM after ten weeks. They didn't mention anything about diet though so I don't know whether they controlled that or not..
Measuring only protein synthesis completely ignores the VERY important CNS adaptations that allow for an increase in strength. Much of the novice effect in SS relies on the fact that strength is only half muscular, and half mental - as your body performs a heavy lift, it becomes more efficient at recruiting the total muscle fiber available to it, for the next time that you perform that lift. So sure, this study might be correct - lifting a light weight many many times (a higher "total tonnage") might be a bit more efficient for muscular development, but lifting a low weight fewer times is going to be better for the combined "muscular and neurological" development that will help me put up a higher tonnage next week.
It's a long term thing, I think.
On August 13 2011 05:33 bdictkam wrote:
No, and i never wrote that i didnt think it was adaquet. But an individual such as the above can show a narrowminded view regardless. Any researched material that is provided by qualified scientific research would be welcomed here right? But years of opinons because "ive heard" or have read from a "blogger", is not well researched.
edit-so if you have reputatble studies please link im still absorbing as much info as i can
There were two studies, and then a blog post linked. I don't think you actually took the time to read any of the three of them - but it should be noted that any time a leangains or Bodyrecomp post is linked, the article is extensively cited in scientific literature, if you'll just look at some of the links from that page. They're more "secondary scientific sources" than they are typical "bloggers" because nearly any claim made is supported by some scientific evidence - and if it IS an opinion, it's clearly stated to be so ("I think", or "my opinion is")
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I already linked some studies on previous pages, but he ignored it and went off on Lyle's link (and he's one of people who probably knows more than me on some stuff). So lol to that.
Also, if he wants to post his experiences with his random crappy routine, and then we can compare it to some of the people who have done SS in this thread.
I am sure we can come to the agreement that SS is vastly superior to anything he is recommending.
The basics of putting on mass & strength have not vastly changed since the 70s. What works is what works and that is getting stronger + adding weight.... which can be most effectively done with the 5-8 repetition range.
On August 13 2011 03:16 Catch wrote:
Hm. How important is glycemic index when it comes to carbs and pre-workout nutrition. This handy dandy infographic (http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1abSvj/www.greatist.com/health/the-complete-guide-to-workout-nutrition) seems to place a big emphasis on it, but I've never really read anything on it.
So basically, Ideally you want a high GI carb during barbell work so that you have constant levels of energy from the glucose being released?
Or does it not really even matter that much?
Simple carbs do absorb faster and present some ergogenic benefit during workouts.
PWO though anything (real food) tends to work or you can take choco milk, shakes, and stuff. Whatever floats your boat.
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On August 13 2011 05:26 decafchicken wrote:
eshlow..I've had a shooting pain in my left trap/upper back when I do random things, reaching down to pick shit up and other things. it goes away pretty quick though and I've been able to do Olympic lifting without too much inconvenience. it feels muscular and pretty sure it happened when I ran the ball into a couple guys playing rugby a couple weeks ago, figured it'd be gone by now. should I just rice it?
Foam roll it, and/or use the corner of a wall (or lacrosse bal or something) to work on loosening up the muscle tissues in thoses areas. Also, heat it up to loosen it up.
See if that helps after a couple days.
If it was like a knot impinging on a nerve that should help alleviate it.
Generally speaking muscles tend to respond a bit better to heat if they're tight. The exception obviously being contusions or other acute injuries like strains and such where you'd want to limit excess inflammation.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I tried low bar squats yesterday and my lower back is so sore o.O
I had a lot of trouble trying to keep my back arched because it was starting to give up. Feels like it's harder on my lower back than my quads :s
On a different note, I can't decide if I want to cut first then start training hardcore or just keep training and try to maintain 170 lbs. I'm 5'11 if that helps. My goal is to be awesome lol
Right now I'm thinking of using IF to cut down ~1 lb a week over ~12 weeks or so before trying to maintain that weight. Any suggestions?
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thats because low bar squats are harder on your lower back/posterior chain then high bar squats.
@eshlow will do. have a practice oly meet tomorrow though lol we'll see how that goes :p
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I'vse noticed lately that "arched" is beginning to feel "neutral" on my spine, as in the default position for my lower back. It's a lot easier to hold on to my squat form now  . Love what getting stronger has done for my posture.
Shoulders back is still a problem in the mornings, because my chest is very tight, but after I loosen up it's great
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On August 13 2011 05:53 Seth_ wrote:Question: If I want to lose a pound of fat a week while using ~800-1000 calories every other day when running, should I: - Eat my normal 2200 calories a day and just lose the fat from the exercise, which is about 3-3.5k calories a week? - Have a deficit of 500 a day: 1700 on non-training days and 2500-2700 on training days. - Something in between (e.g. eat 2k on normal days and 2.2k when working out)? - 1700 on normal days and only 2k when working out so I can lose more than 1 pound a week. - Don't count calories and eat healthy food when I'm hungry. If you want an example of the training; Today I did: + Show Spoiler +15' warm up jog (10 km/h)
10' skipping, stretching... exercises
4 x 60 m acceleration
4 x 50 m sprint
4 x 60 m sprint
4 x 80 m sprint
all sprints close to full speed. Rest between same distances = walking back. Rest between different distances = 10'
15' jog (6 km/h)
If you're just concerned about losing fat then any method will work tbh. Whatever you feel most comfortable with and whatever you think you can stick with the longest is probably your best bet. Options 1-3 will all burn you a pound of fat a week, with option 4 being reliant on how much you're eating. (Ideally you'd want to be eating healthy food AND counting calories  )
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Smolov day 2 done. Easy. Seriously considering recalculating the weights. Will see how squatting on sunday and monday right after goes.
Great job DimmuKlok!
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On August 13 2011 07:49 sJarl wrote:
Smolov day 2 done. Easy. Seriously considering recalculating the weights. Will see how squatting on sunday and monday right after goes.
Great job DimmuKlok!
are you on the the first 2 weeks where it just gets your legs ready for what is going to come? Those were easy for me. When you squat 4 days in a row. Doesnt get hard until like4-5 weeks in imo. then it gets really draining.
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On August 13 2011 06:58 infinity21 wrote:
I tried low bar squats yesterday and my lower back is so sore o.O
I had a lot of trouble trying to keep my back arched because it was starting to give up. Feels like it's harder on my lower back than my quads :s
On a different note, I can't decide if I want to cut first then start training hardcore or just keep training and try to maintain 170 lbs. I'm 5'11 if that helps. My goal is to be awesome lol
Right now I'm thinking of using IF to cut down ~1 lb a week over ~12 weeks or so before trying to maintain that weight. Any suggestions?
SInce you posted a picture my advise is bulk then cut. You can either do it dirty, which i would recommend, and then cut later. Or do a nice clean bulk.
Is there any reason you wanna maintain? Don't wanna put on more mass?
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On August 13 2011 08:00 glurio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 06:58 infinity21 wrote:
I tried low bar squats yesterday and my lower back is so sore o.O
I had a lot of trouble trying to keep my back arched because it was starting to give up. Feels like it's harder on my lower back than my quads :s
On a different note, I can't decide if I want to cut first then start training hardcore or just keep training and try to maintain 170 lbs. I'm 5'11 if that helps. My goal is to be awesome lol
Right now I'm thinking of using IF to cut down ~1 lb a week over ~12 weeks or so before trying to maintain that weight. Any suggestions? SInce you posted a picture my advise is bulk then cut. You can either do it dirty, which i would recommend, and then cut later. Or do a nice clean bulk. Is there any reason you wanna maintain? Don't wanna put on more mass?
I don't think my body is capable of exceeding 170 lbs if I maintained low bf%. Am I mistaken here?
I did some quick calculations and if I were to drop to awesome territory (~7% bf) at my current LBM, then I would need to lose 20 lbs of weight. To exceed my current weight by putting on 20 lbs more muscle seems like a rather difficult task. Again, I don't know much about the amount of muscle that people can put on with proper nutrition and weight training so let me know if I'm wrong.
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On August 13 2011 08:12 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 08:00 glurio wrote:On August 13 2011 06:58 infinity21 wrote:
I tried low bar squats yesterday and my lower back is so sore o.O
I had a lot of trouble trying to keep my back arched because it was starting to give up. Feels like it's harder on my lower back than my quads :s
On a different note, I can't decide if I want to cut first then start training hardcore or just keep training and try to maintain 170 lbs. I'm 5'11 if that helps. My goal is to be awesome lol
Right now I'm thinking of using IF to cut down ~1 lb a week over ~12 weeks or so before trying to maintain that weight. Any suggestions? SInce you posted a picture my advise is bulk then cut. You can either do it dirty, which i would recommend, and then cut later. Or do a nice clean bulk. Is there any reason you wanna maintain? Don't wanna put on more mass? I don't think my body is capable of exceeding 170 lbs if I maintained low bf%. Am I mistaken here? I did some quick calculations and if I were to drop to awesome territory (~7% bf) at my current LBM, then I would need to lose 20 lbs of weight. To exceed my current weight by putting on 20 lbs more muscle seems like a rather difficult task. Again, I don't know much about the amount of muscle that people can put on with proper nutrition and weight training so let me know if I'm wrong.
Then lift heavy and take in the proper nutrients to bulk. You can always cut once you achieve a surplus of weight. I don't care what your height is, I can assure you that you can achieve a lean 170lbs. Getting there is the only thing you need to worry about. It's worth the effort it's going to take to put on the additional lean mass.
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On August 13 2011 08:12 infinity21 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 13 2011 08:00 glurio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 06:58 infinity21 wrote:
I tried low bar squats yesterday and my lower back is so sore o.O
I had a lot of trouble trying to keep my back arched because it was starting to give up. Feels like it's harder on my lower back than my quads :s
On a different note, I can't decide if I want to cut first then start training hardcore or just keep training and try to maintain 170 lbs. I'm 5'11 if that helps. My goal is to be awesome lol
Right now I'm thinking of using IF to cut down ~1 lb a week over ~12 weeks or so before trying to maintain that weight. Any suggestions? SInce you posted a picture my advise is bulk then cut. You can either do it dirty, which i would recommend, and then cut later. Or do a nice clean bulk. Is there any reason you wanna maintain? Don't wanna put on more mass? I don't think my body is capable of exceeding 170 lbs if I maintained low bf%. Am I mistaken here? I did some quick calculations and if I were to drop to awesome territory (~7% bf) at my current LBM, then I would need to lose 20 lbs of weight. To exceed my current weight by putting on 20 lbs more muscle seems like a rather difficult task. Again, I don't know much about the amount of muscle that people can put on with proper nutrition and weight training so let me know if I'm wrong.
Well you're still pretty small. So i you can grow quite a bit more.
http://www.leangains.com/2010/12/maximum-muscular-potential.html
Read this article it's quite good.
If you weigh 170 now, but you need to lose 20lbs to get 7% bf, then after losing it you'd only weigh 150lbs and thats not much.
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I asked my coach for more workouts. So he said I will lift twice mondays and wednesdays. I wonder how it will be split up. I will try to go on a stricter diet and see how my results are. I was thinking about blogging about it. Should I start a blog on teamliquid?
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That was a great read, thanks for showing it to us.
On August 13 2011 08:46 AoN.DimSum wrote:
I asked my coach for more workouts. So he said I will lift twice mondays and wednesdays. I wonder how it will be split up. I will try to go on a stricter diet and see how my results are. I was thinking about blogging about it. Should I start a blog on teamliquid?
I am gonna read it.
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EPT
