On August 09 2011 07:57 decafchicken wrote: @dimsum - i wonder what the logic behind having kendrick farris do 2x PC followed by splot + power jerk? T_T Can we just ship him off to ivan abadjiev and see how he comes back? :D
Got a 2 hour lesson in biomechanics complete with graphs, charts, and videos today while i was working out lol :D Started relaxing a LOT more before/during my lifts and it felt WAAAAY better. The concept still baffles me but i like the way i feel getting under the bar a lot more. Catch feels a million times smoother on both clean and snatch.
On August 09 2011 07:06 Malinor wrote: @eshlow: What kind of shoes would you recommend for running. Since you dislike shoes with elevated heels (because if I understand correctly it encourages wrong running habits, heel-to-toe basically), traditional running shoes probably won't be what you recommend. I played around with the idea to get vobream 5-fingers for some time, but it is basically not within my budget right now and I probably don't run regularly enough that I would get accustumed to those. I would use the shoes half the time on asphalt and the other half on a track. Of course anyone's suggestions are welcome.
What is your budget? I've seen the FF for ~50$ on slickdeals.net. Dont run on asphalt imo. Stick to the track/grass fields. What kind of running are you talking about? Interval sprinting, distance? FWIW i do most of my running barefoot or in cleats (<3 my copa mundials). I've got a pair of aasic running shoes which are pretty light (all i cared about because i'm on the ball of my foot most of the time). Barefoot can be a bit brutal on the shins/etc at first, gotta ease into it.
I've been running on asphalt since forever, and there is actually not too much of an alternative, there is not too much grass around where I live. But I just 'discovered' a stadium with a good track a couple kilometres away (which inspired me to fix my bike today to get there... europeans don't need cars ). I basically wanna use the track for HIIT intervalls. So I thought about getting real track&field shoes with spikes, but these obviously would be highly specialized and not for normal runs on the street, which I will always do for 45-60min once in a while. Don't wanna spend more than 60-70€. If it is of any help, I overpronate.
It's just highly reliant on how much running I am really gonna do. I just have a little lifting crises right now (Squatting, Deadlifting, pulled muscle, not comfortable with heavy power cleans in my gym) and therefore I am more prone to running at the moment. But that might go away after some good sessions. For HIIT on track, T&F shoes would probably be pretty nice and I can probably get away with using my very old running shoes for ~1 run per week on asphalt until the end of time (which is pretty much what I am doing now).
edit: what are "The FF" you are talking about?
Is it actually a good idea for someone your size to go running/jogging on a regular basis? I always thought that if youre too heavy, you will ruin your joints with running. might want to just go for long walks (preferrably fasted!) instead
On August 09 2011 07:57 decafchicken wrote: @dimsum - i wonder what the logic behind having kendrick farris do 2x PC followed by splot + power jerk? T_T Can we just ship him off to ivan abadjiev and see how he comes back? :D
Got a 2 hour lesson in biomechanics complete with graphs, charts, and videos today while i was working out lol :D Started relaxing a LOT more before/during my lifts and it felt WAAAAY better. The concept still baffles me but i like the way i feel getting under the bar a lot more. Catch feels a million times smoother on both clean and snatch.
On August 09 2011 07:06 Malinor wrote: @eshlow: What kind of shoes would you recommend for running. Since you dislike shoes with elevated heels (because if I understand correctly it encourages wrong running habits, heel-to-toe basically), traditional running shoes probably won't be what you recommend. I played around with the idea to get vobream 5-fingers for some time, but it is basically not within my budget right now and I probably don't run regularly enough that I would get accustumed to those. I would use the shoes half the time on asphalt and the other half on a track. Of course anyone's suggestions are welcome.
What is your budget? I've seen the FF for ~50$ on slickdeals.net. Dont run on asphalt imo. Stick to the track/grass fields. What kind of running are you talking about? Interval sprinting, distance? FWIW i do most of my running barefoot or in cleats (<3 my copa mundials). I've got a pair of aasic running shoes which are pretty light (all i cared about because i'm on the ball of my foot most of the time). Barefoot can be a bit brutal on the shins/etc at first, gotta ease into it.
I've been running on asphalt since forever, and there is actually not too much of an alternative, there is not too much grass around where I live. But I just 'discovered' a stadium with a good track a couple kilometres away (which inspired me to fix my bike today to get there... europeans don't need cars ). I basically wanna use the track for HIIT intervalls. So I thought about getting real track&field shoes with spikes, but these obviously would be highly specialized and not for normal runs on the street, which I will always do for 45-60min once in a while. Don't wanna spend more than 60-70€. If it is of any help, I overpronate.
It's just highly reliant on how much running I am really gonna do. I just have a little lifting crises right now (Squatting, Deadlifting, pulled muscle, not comfortable with heavy power cleans in my gym) and therefore I am more prone to running at the moment. But that might go away after some good sessions. For HIIT on track, T&F shoes would probably be pretty nice and I can probably get away with using my very old running shoes for ~1 run per week on asphalt until the end of time (which is pretty much what I am doing now).
edit: what are "The FF" you are talking about?
Is it actually a good idea for someone your size to go running/jogging on a regular basis? I always thought that if youre too heavy, you will ruin your joints with running. might want to just go for long walks (preferrably fasted!) instead
Generally, a good way to know if you're doing something that may "hurt" your joint is evaluate your running technique by the sounds coming.
You want to be silent when you are running generally because that means no energy is wasted either into the ground or into your other joints causing too much torquing forces.
But yeah, generally running on softer surfaces like grass is much better than doing asphalt or track all the time... the top runners for the sprints don't spend too much time on pavement because it tears up the joints when training for maximal speeds (and there are higher forces and more likelyhood that they will go awry).
You gotta work with what you have, I cannot create miles of grass to run on out of thin air. There is a small park nearby with a softer surface, which I am already using, but it takes me 10 minutes to get there and obviously the same amount of time to get back, which already is half the time I spend running But to be honest, this is nothing I spent much time thinking about. I do slow low impact running (no sprints or intervalls) on asphalt, and it is once a week and often even less than that. I also find the dangers of running on asphalt vastly overexaggerated, (are there actually studies for this? It would probably be very hard to do a long term study on something like this while controlling enough variables) I don't even consider grass a soft surface, it is just less hard than others, but of course that is just a question of how to define things. I also believe it is much more detrimental to my joints if I stay on the same weight I have now for ten more years.
When I was running more often in 2005/2006 (read: 4-6 times a week), I liked it the most to mix up surfaces as much as possible: Grass, forest (dirt), track, asphalt, often times it was just a mood thing. But yeah, running 45 minutes on asphalt 2x/week (with lifting and HIIT, it would never be more than that) at 7-8km per hour is really nothing I am worrying about.
On August 09 2011 21:51 Malinor wrote: I also believe it is much more detrimental to my joints if I stay on the same weight I have now for ten more years.
true, but its not like you HAVE to run to lose that weight as I said, fasted walking uphill is very good cardio and easy on the joints but if eshlow says its ok who am I to say it isnt!
On August 09 2011 21:51 Malinor wrote: I also believe it is much more detrimental to my joints if I stay on the same weight I have now for ten more years.
true, but its not like you HAVE to run to lose that weight as I said, fasted walking uphill is very good cardio and easy on the joints but if eshlow says its ok who am I to say it isnt!
I'm lifting 330lbs. I'm entitled to have my own opinion now.
Their quads are developed from all the front squatting they do. Not that you should not powerclean or anything, just throwing it out there.
Also to the trololol post about bodybuilding vs strength training, at anything but the elite level, they are one and the same. Whether you're doing a bodypart split, some sort of upper/lower split, 5/3/1, etc... the goal well into the intermediate lifting range is to get bigger and stronger.
Their quads are developed from all the front squatting they do. Not that you should not powerclean or anything, just throwing it out there.
Also to the trololol post about bodybuilding vs strength training, at anything but the elite level, they are one and the same. Whether you're doing a bodypart split, some sort of upper/lower split, 5/3/1, etc... the goal well into the intermediate lifting range is to get bigger and stronger.
I know ;D. I've started Front Squatting too. (on wednesday which is supposed to be my light day.)
On August 08 2011 22:13 shinosai wrote: In response to the dialogue about power cleans, I have a few curiosities. Mark Rippetoe teaches the power clean emphasizing the jump instead of the hip extension. You say it is incorrect to do the power clean as a jump, but that's how the author of SS teaches it in his videos. He says to drag the bar up the legs like a deadlift, and when it hits the high right above the knee to jump straight up with the shoulders shrugging. He emphasizes that all the power in the lift comes from the jump. Is this really incorrect?
The jump IS triple extension. Focusing on jumping is a good cue on how to perform a correct triple extension.
BUT the problem is if the weights are light enough you do not want to have an actual jump where the feet are coming off the ground. Having the feet come off the ground means less time to have the feet planted and move underneath of the bar.
It's a cue for one specific fault, but you're not actually supposed to jump such that you get height off of the ground. If you're doing that you're not doing it correctly.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification! When I do power cleans with heavy enough weight, actually jumping off the ground is impossible for me, anyways. I was worried that I was doing them incorrectly by focusing on jumping, but as long as I'm doing a triple extension and not coming off the ground, it would seem I'll be alright.
I think what dimsum might have been getting at is that (from what I've recently been learning) is not so much the emphasis on triple extension but on getting under the bar properly.
You mean eshlow!
As decaf said, I wouldnt worry too much about triple extension. As long as you can get under the bar, it is fine.
Woot started to lift again yesterday! So excited! But the best part is that I now have a lifting buddy. I convinced/forced my friend to join me because; well, he needs it LoL. I figure it'll keep me honest as well. So I'm very happy to have him doing something physical and I'm happy to have a partner for lifting. I told him to do his homework about Starting Strength and his first day went pretty good. He's built to bench and squat (short limbs broad chest) I hope he sticks with it. Cus I'm not going to force him (I've given up on that a long time ago) but at least he felt accomplished after his lifts. So hopefully adding 5 or 10 to the bar is enough motivation for him to keep going.
On August 09 2011 21:51 Malinor wrote: You gotta work with what you have, I cannot create miles of grass to run on out of thin air. There is a small park nearby with a softer surface, which I am already using, but it takes me 10 minutes to get there and obviously the same amount of time to get back, which already is half the time I spend running But to be honest, this is nothing I spent much time thinking about. I do slow low impact running (no sprints or intervalls) on asphalt, and it is once a week and often even less than that. I also find the dangers of running on asphalt vastly overexaggerated, (are there actually studies for this? It would probably be very hard to do a long term study on something like this while controlling enough variables) I don't even consider grass a soft surface, it is just less hard than others, but of course that is just a question of how to define things. I also believe it is much more detrimental to my joints if I stay on the same weight I have now for ten more years.
When I was running more often in 2005/2006 (read: 4-6 times a week), I liked it the most to mix up surfaces as much as possible: Grass, forest (dirt), track, asphalt, often times it was just a mood thing. But yeah, running 45 minutes on asphalt 2x/week (with lifting and HIIT, it would never be more than that) at 7-8km per hour is really nothing I am worrying about.
Yeah, probably doesn't matter that much, I agree. When you have the option to run on a lighter surface i would take it... but other things like nutrition/sleep/etc. do matter more
On August 08 2011 22:13 shinosai wrote: In response to the dialogue about power cleans, I have a few curiosities. Mark Rippetoe teaches the power clean emphasizing the jump instead of the hip extension. You say it is incorrect to do the power clean as a jump, but that's how the author of SS teaches it in his videos. He says to drag the bar up the legs like a deadlift, and when it hits the high right above the knee to jump straight up with the shoulders shrugging. He emphasizes that all the power in the lift comes from the jump. Is this really incorrect?
The jump IS triple extension. Focusing on jumping is a good cue on how to perform a correct triple extension.
BUT the problem is if the weights are light enough you do not want to have an actual jump where the feet are coming off the ground. Having the feet come off the ground means less time to have the feet planted and move underneath of the bar.
It's a cue for one specific fault, but you're not actually supposed to jump such that you get height off of the ground. If you're doing that you're not doing it correctly.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification! When I do power cleans with heavy enough weight, actually jumping off the ground is impossible for me, anyways. I was worried that I was doing them incorrectly by focusing on jumping, but as long as I'm doing a triple extension and not coming off the ground, it would seem I'll be alright.
I think what dimsum might have been getting at is that (from what I've recently been learning) is not so much the emphasis on triple extension but on getting under the bar properly.
You mean eshlow!
As decaf said, I wouldnt worry too much about triple extension. As long as you can get under the bar, it is fine.
On August 08 2011 22:13 shinosai wrote: In response to the dialogue about power cleans, I have a few curiosities. Mark Rippetoe teaches the power clean emphasizing the jump instead of the hip extension. You say it is incorrect to do the power clean as a jump, but that's how the author of SS teaches it in his videos. He says to drag the bar up the legs like a deadlift, and when it hits the high right above the knee to jump straight up with the shoulders shrugging. He emphasizes that all the power in the lift comes from the jump. Is this really incorrect?
The jump IS triple extension. Focusing on jumping is a good cue on how to perform a correct triple extension.
BUT the problem is if the weights are light enough you do not want to have an actual jump where the feet are coming off the ground. Having the feet come off the ground means less time to have the feet planted and move underneath of the bar.
It's a cue for one specific fault, but you're not actually supposed to jump such that you get height off of the ground. If you're doing that you're not doing it correctly.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification! When I do power cleans with heavy enough weight, actually jumping off the ground is impossible for me, anyways. I was worried that I was doing them incorrectly by focusing on jumping, but as long as I'm doing a triple extension and not coming off the ground, it would seem I'll be alright.
I think what dimsum might have been getting at is that (from what I've recently been learning) is not so much the emphasis on triple extension but on getting under the bar properly.
You mean eshlow!
As decaf said, I wouldnt worry too much about triple extension. As long as you can get under the bar, it is fine.
On August 09 2011 10:20 Bonham wrote: Sorry to jump in mid-thread like this, but I'm coming up on a fitness goal that I'm pretty excited about.
On August 21st I'm going to try to qualify for the Boston Marathon. This requires a 3:10 or better for my gender and age group. I've never run a timed marathon race, but I've gotten up over the distance (42.2 km or about 25 miles) several times in training.
I've been killing myself training this summer -- peaked at 130 km per week for two weeks; built up to that over around four months from a background of about 60-70 km per week. I've been crushing my interval workouts (I do Yasso 800s at 2:50 or under; started with six, worked up to ten at peak load) and I built my long Saturday runs up to 45 km. I started tapering my mileage last Wednesday, and by this Wednesday I'll be around 50% of my peak workload.
Last summer, I did a half marathon in 1:31:09 and this April I ran a 10km race in 37:36 -- before I really started this program. I'm not sure I've ever worked as hard at anything in my life (even university basketball or my Master's thesis), and the closer I get to the race the more excited and nervous I get.
I think my main challenge is going to be not going out too fast on race day -- I did it last summer at the half marathon, and I always find big races fun and exciting and atmospheric. Couple this with the fact that my target time (3:05) is beyond the fastest pace bunny that will be there and I'm probably a serious risk to burnout in the first 20km or so. We'll see if I can rein myself in enough.
Anyway, just wanted to share this because I'm obnoxiously excited about it. I'll post again after the race with my time, if anyone cares. If there are any other runners on TL, I'd love to hear from you. I'm actually a bit worried that I might have overrtrained (most running forums I've looked at mention about 112km as a good max mileage for what I'm trying), so if anyone can speak to that I'd also be very gratified.
Are you Bonham on the bodyrecomp forums?
And just training 112km per week won't "overtrain" you directly.
If you are handling the training, improving, feel good psychologically, not losing weight fast, then you are most likely not overtraining. If you have any morning resting heartrate data that could help too.
You sound like you have a pretty good idea what you're doing, and as long as you are improving you are not overtraining (by definition).
As far as pacing goes, you could invest in a gps watch that will tell you your pace.
What time did you give the race as an 'expected finish'? You should be able to run with the group your in and stay pretty on pace.
On August 08 2011 22:13 shinosai wrote: In response to the dialogue about power cleans, I have a few curiosities. Mark Rippetoe teaches the power clean emphasizing the jump instead of the hip extension. You say it is incorrect to do the power clean as a jump, but that's how the author of SS teaches it in his videos. He says to drag the bar up the legs like a deadlift, and when it hits the high right above the knee to jump straight up with the shoulders shrugging. He emphasizes that all the power in the lift comes from the jump. Is this really incorrect?
The jump IS triple extension. Focusing on jumping is a good cue on how to perform a correct triple extension.
BUT the problem is if the weights are light enough you do not want to have an actual jump where the feet are coming off the ground. Having the feet come off the ground means less time to have the feet planted and move underneath of the bar.
It's a cue for one specific fault, but you're not actually supposed to jump such that you get height off of the ground. If you're doing that you're not doing it correctly.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification! When I do power cleans with heavy enough weight, actually jumping off the ground is impossible for me, anyways. I was worried that I was doing them incorrectly by focusing on jumping, but as long as I'm doing a triple extension and not coming off the ground, it would seem I'll be alright.
I think what dimsum might have been getting at is that (from what I've recently been learning) is not so much the emphasis on triple extension but on getting under the bar properly.
You mean eshlow!
As decaf said, I wouldnt worry too much about triple extension. As long as you can get under the bar, it is fine.
On August 08 2011 22:13 shinosai wrote: In response to the dialogue about power cleans, I have a few curiosities. Mark Rippetoe teaches the power clean emphasizing the jump instead of the hip extension. You say it is incorrect to do the power clean as a jump, but that's how the author of SS teaches it in his videos. He says to drag the bar up the legs like a deadlift, and when it hits the high right above the knee to jump straight up with the shoulders shrugging. He emphasizes that all the power in the lift comes from the jump. Is this really incorrect?
The jump IS triple extension. Focusing on jumping is a good cue on how to perform a correct triple extension.
BUT the problem is if the weights are light enough you do not want to have an actual jump where the feet are coming off the ground. Having the feet come off the ground means less time to have the feet planted and move underneath of the bar.
It's a cue for one specific fault, but you're not actually supposed to jump such that you get height off of the ground. If you're doing that you're not doing it correctly.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification! When I do power cleans with heavy enough weight, actually jumping off the ground is impossible for me, anyways. I was worried that I was doing them incorrectly by focusing on jumping, but as long as I'm doing a triple extension and not coming off the ground, it would seem I'll be alright.
I think what dimsum might have been getting at is that (from what I've recently been learning) is not so much the emphasis on triple extension but on getting under the bar properly.
You mean eshlow!
As decaf said, I wouldnt worry too much about triple extension. As long as you can get under the bar, it is fine.
And just training 112km per week won't "overtrain" you directly.
If you are handling the training, improving, feel good psychologically, not losing weight fast, then you are most likely not overtraining. If you have any morning resting heartrate data that could help too.
You sound like you have a pretty good idea what you're doing, and as long as you are improving you are not overtraining (by definition).
As far as pacing goes, you could invest in a gps watch that will tell you your pace.
What time did you give the race as an 'expected finish'? You should be able to run with the group your in and stay pretty on pace.
In order:
- Nope! Just a fan of Led Zeppelin.
- My peak mileage was actually about 133 km, but I see what you mean. I've heard that high resting heart rate can indicate over-training. My dad (former marathoner himself who's been super-supportive of my running goals) bought me a nice Garmin GPS to track my mileage, pace and so on. It comes with a heart monitor, but because I'm an idiot I never used it during my weeks at peak load so I have no idea how my heart was behaving. I could measure my resting heart rate now while I taper, I suppose, but I'm not sure how useful that would be. FWIW, I've felt like a thoroughbred racehorse yesterday -- 12.5 km at around 4:20/km felt really easy, so my taper certainly seems to be building my strength.
- Like I said, I've got a GPS watch. I know I need to hit 4:30/km as a minimum pace, but I'm really concerned about going out too fast so my strategy basically is to go out slower than race-pace (maybe 4:35 or so) for the first 7 km and ramp it down as low as feels good for the next 30. The final 5km, I'm sure, will be writ in pain -- but that's what marathoning is all about, really.
(As an aside, my understanding of "the Wall" is basically the feeling you get when your body has burned all of its glycogen and starts to metabolize fat to fuel further activity. You carry around 2000 calories worth of glycogen (maybe more if you carbo-load like I will before the race) which works out to around 25 or 30 km of running. Since burning fat is [i]not fun/i] and almost certainly will make you slow down, the solution is to ingest some calories while you run. I've been practicing eating while I run on my long runs -- around 23 km I have a few calories, like half a granola bar or something, and it peps me right up and I keep on truckin'. Haven't decided if I want to use gels or just grab some gatorade instead of water during the race itself.
TL;DR: I'm not too concerned about the wall. I think it's more of a hazard for inexperienced or under-prepared runners who might be going over 30km for the first time on race day.)
-- The race (Edmonton Intact Derby Marathon) doesn't have a self-seeding time like that. Instead they run "pace bunnies" along the course -- experienced runners who carry signs with their finish times along with them, so if you want to run a 3:45, you know you just need to stick with the guy holding the sign that says that. My problem is that my maximum time (3 hours 10 minutes) is 20 minutes faster than the fastest pace bunny the race offers. But like I said, I think my watch will see me through.
EPT
). I basically wanna use the track for HIIT intervalls. So I thought about getting real track&field shoes with spikes, but these obviously would be highly specialized and not for normal runs on the street, which I will always do for 45-60min once in a while. Don't wanna spend more than 60-70€. If it is of any help, I overpronate.
as I said, fasted walking uphill is very good cardio and easy on the joints
