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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 10 2015 00:14 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:55 Numy wrote:On October 09 2015 23:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:43 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:17 ComaDose wrote:
Two fraternities are in an altercation it gets physical, one 18 yo kid has a gun and shoots down 4 people and one of them die. what will Republicans blame instead of gun control laws? mental conditions? demons? gay legalization? completely ignore it? stay tuned to find out. I'm sure they'll "find" he was drunk/high or something. Well, it was at ~2 AM on a college campus on Thursday night, so that's almost certainly true regardless of the situation. I thought it's taboo to talk bad about alcohol? I mean, I wasn't - I was merely stating a likely speculation. This...situation seems to me like it was a drunken dispute gone bad. It was a drunken dispute gone bad! but becuase 18yo kids have easy access to murder weapons it resulted in a casualty. Like some kid who just started university is getting buried.
Underage drinking, this is why the law is 21 and over! We also have it on good report that the student was involved in a gang and drugs were involved. The war on drugs is failing, we need Donald Trump to act now. If the other students had more guns they could have defended themselves by shooting the other bullets out of the sky. We need less gun control, the right to have a gun is in our blood, everyone must now legally have a gun. The student was also an arab, he was definitely a terrorist sent here to hinder our freedom, we need the death penalty available everywhere. We must fight the root of this problem by bombing Syria.
Go go go!
The bomb has been planted.
Terrorists win.
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I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense.
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God didn't stop the bullets for them cause god is not allowed in schools anymore.
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On October 10 2015 00:11 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 23:51 Ketara wrote:
When people try to blame Americas gun problem on mental health I go into a rage. Rage!
I liked the recent jon Oliver video. More people need to know the statistic that mentally ill people are less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population. Well when the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than those who are not then... Yeah... "Statistics" are always bull shit.
I do not understand the meaning, message or intention of this post at all, holyflare.
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On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense.
the right to bear arms has nothing to do with self defense... it was instated so that citizens would be able to form militias to defend themselves from oppressive governments. Just cause it was built on something (ex. the backs of slaves) doesnt mean that its a right that needs to be continued. being afraid of change is the worst.
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On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense.
This is the most American thing I've read this week.
Truly a fascinating people. Here we just kill each other for backwards reasons. It's all rather boring and sad.
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On October 10 2015 00:28 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense. the right to bear arms has nothing to do with self defense... it was instated so that citizens would be able to form militias to defend themselves from oppressive governments. Just cause it was built on something (ex. the backs of slaves) doesnt mean that its a right that needs to be continued. being afraid of change is the worst.
Well being able to form militias vs oppressive governments is still self-defense, is it not? The problem is everyone is left to interpret laws, since no law can be 100% encompassing of every particular scenario. Do you think owning guns is similar to owning slaves? I definitely make the distinction there, and can't really apply the same logic from one to the other. I don't own a gun at all by the way, nor have I shot any caliber larger than a .22 (through Boy Scouts).
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On October 10 2015 00:14 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:55 Numy wrote:On October 09 2015 23:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:43 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:17 ComaDose wrote:
Two fraternities are in an altercation it gets physical, one 18 yo kid has a gun and shoots down 4 people and one of them die. what will Republicans blame instead of gun control laws? mental conditions? demons? gay legalization? completely ignore it? stay tuned to find out. I'm sure they'll "find" he was drunk/high or something. Well, it was at ~2 AM on a college campus on Thursday night, so that's almost certainly true regardless of the situation. I thought it's taboo to talk bad about alcohol? I mean, I wasn't - I was merely stating a likely speculation. This...situation seems to me like it was a drunken dispute gone bad. It was a drunken dispute gone bad! but becuase 18yo kids have easy access to murder weapons it resulted in a casualty. Like some kid who just started university is getting buried.
Oh, I wasn't saying it to sway the conversation one way or the other. More just to point out that it's a somewhat different situation than a premeditated school shooting.
On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense.
I enjoy shooting guns. My dad's company has a lot of business through making gun magazines (fairly low caliber). I understand why people like having guns. What I would like is some more understanding from gun enthusiasts why others dislike guns and want restrictions.
Every point or argument is met with "NO DON'T TAKE MY GUNS THEY'RE MY RIGHT". I don't necessarily want gun banned outright, but something has to change.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 10 2015 00:26 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:11 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:51 Ketara wrote:
When people try to blame Americas gun problem on mental health I go into a rage. Rage!
I liked the recent jon Oliver video. More people need to know the statistic that mentally ill people are less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population. Well when the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than those who are not then... Yeah... "Statistics" are always bull shit. I do not understand the meaning, message or intention of this post at all, holyflare.
You have stated something as a fact that more people need to know. "mentally ill people are significantly less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population" and I'm telling you that it is a flawed statistic because of course that is the case since the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than the amount of non mentally ill people.
If there are 10 people in a town and 1 is mentally ill and violent and 2 non mentally ill and violent then if you were to extrapolate to bs statistics then 2/10 of the population is violent and not mentally ill and of course the less populated mentally ill is only 1/10 because there's far fewer instances of mentally ill people.
You can then state some bs stat that "mentally ill people are significantly less likely to be violent than non mentally ill!"
I don't trust any stat that anyone publishes. Especially in America the land of the corporate dreams. Even a lot of science based journals follow a lot of bias.
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On October 10 2015 00:45 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:14 ComaDose wrote:On October 10 2015 00:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:55 Numy wrote:On October 09 2015 23:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:43 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:17 ComaDose wrote:
Two fraternities are in an altercation it gets physical, one 18 yo kid has a gun and shoots down 4 people and one of them die. what will Republicans blame instead of gun control laws? mental conditions? demons? gay legalization? completely ignore it? stay tuned to find out. I'm sure they'll "find" he was drunk/high or something. Well, it was at ~2 AM on a college campus on Thursday night, so that's almost certainly true regardless of the situation. I thought it's taboo to talk bad about alcohol? I mean, I wasn't - I was merely stating a likely speculation. This...situation seems to me like it was a drunken dispute gone bad. It was a drunken dispute gone bad! but becuase 18yo kids have easy access to murder weapons it resulted in a casualty. Like some kid who just started university is getting buried. Oh, I wasn't saying it to sway the conversation one way or the other. More just to point out that it's a somewhat different situation than a premeditated school shooting. Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense. I enjoy shooting guns. My dad's company has a lot of business through making gun magazines (fairly low caliber). I understand why people like having guns. What I would like is some more understanding from gun enthusiasts why others dislike guns and want restrictions. Every point or argument is met with "NO DON'T TAKE MY GUNS THEY'RE MY RIGHT". I don't necessarily want gun banned outright, but something has to change.
I agree with your assessment but so long as the south exsists its much less likely anything will happen. They would rather revolt than have even the slightest change to gun laws/control. Personally I'm all for education being more public for guns. Not like a requirement or what have you, but teaching gun safety in schools. Situational awareness ect goes a long way in situations of shootings.
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On October 10 2015 01:02 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:45 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 10 2015 00:14 ComaDose wrote:On October 10 2015 00:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:55 Numy wrote:On October 09 2015 23:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:43 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:17 ComaDose wrote:
Two fraternities are in an altercation it gets physical, one 18 yo kid has a gun and shoots down 4 people and one of them die. what will Republicans blame instead of gun control laws? mental conditions? demons? gay legalization? completely ignore it? stay tuned to find out. I'm sure they'll "find" he was drunk/high or something. Well, it was at ~2 AM on a college campus on Thursday night, so that's almost certainly true regardless of the situation. I thought it's taboo to talk bad about alcohol? I mean, I wasn't - I was merely stating a likely speculation. This...situation seems to me like it was a drunken dispute gone bad. It was a drunken dispute gone bad! but becuase 18yo kids have easy access to murder weapons it resulted in a casualty. Like some kid who just started university is getting buried. Oh, I wasn't saying it to sway the conversation one way or the other. More just to point out that it's a somewhat different situation than a premeditated school shooting. On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense. I enjoy shooting guns. My dad's company has a lot of business through making gun magazines (fairly low caliber). I understand why people like having guns. What I would like is some more understanding from gun enthusiasts why others dislike guns and want restrictions. Every point or argument is met with "NO DON'T TAKE MY GUNS THEY'RE MY RIGHT". I don't necessarily want gun banned outright, but something has to change. I agree with your assessment but so long as the south exsists its much less likely anything will happen. They would rather revolt than have even the slightest change to gun laws/control. Personally I'm all for education being more public for guns. Not like a requirement or what have you, but teaching gun safety in schools. Situational awareness ect goes a long way in situations of shootings.
More education is never a bad thing.
We should couple it in a Guns'n'Buns program for gun safety and sex ed. Kill two birds with one stone.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 10 2015 00:45 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:14 ComaDose wrote:On October 10 2015 00:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:55 Numy wrote:On October 09 2015 23:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 09 2015 23:43 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:17 ComaDose wrote:
Two fraternities are in an altercation it gets physical, one 18 yo kid has a gun and shoots down 4 people and one of them die. what will Republicans blame instead of gun control laws? mental conditions? demons? gay legalization? completely ignore it? stay tuned to find out. I'm sure they'll "find" he was drunk/high or something. Well, it was at ~2 AM on a college campus on Thursday night, so that's almost certainly true regardless of the situation. I thought it's taboo to talk bad about alcohol? I mean, I wasn't - I was merely stating a likely speculation. This...situation seems to me like it was a drunken dispute gone bad. It was a drunken dispute gone bad! but becuase 18yo kids have easy access to murder weapons it resulted in a casualty. Like some kid who just started university is getting buried. Oh, I wasn't saying it to sway the conversation one way or the other. More just to point out that it's a somewhat different situation than a premeditated school shooting. Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense. I enjoy shooting guns. My dad's company has a lot of business through making gun magazines (fairly low caliber). I understand why people like having guns. What I would like is some more understanding from gun enthusiasts why others dislike guns and want restrictions. Every point or argument is met with "NO DON'T TAKE MY GUNS THEY'RE MY RIGHT". I don't necessarily want gun banned outright, but something has to change.
Well we have guns in England? We have licences for farmers for hunting guns and also recreational for ranges and stuff. Seems easier than outright banning for you American gun centric people.
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I am 100% fine with people owning guns. I just think they should be controlled at least as strictly as cars.
I mean think about it. Cars require a license, each individual car registered on a yearly basis, biannual inspections, and (in most states) insurance. Everyone still has cars. Why can't we do that for guns?
Obviously the system wouldn't be perfect at first, it's not like people run around with their guns every day and cops can easily see that their guns don't have an up to date registration sticker, but it'd be a very strong start.
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On October 10 2015 00:35 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:28 ComaDose wrote:On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense. the right to bear arms has nothing to do with self defense... it was instated so that citizens would be able to form militias to defend themselves from oppressive governments. Just cause it was built on something (ex. the backs of slaves) doesnt mean that its a right that needs to be continued. being afraid of change is the worst. Well being able to form militias vs oppressive governments is still self-defense, is it not? The problem is everyone is left to interpret laws, since no law can be 100% encompassing of every particular scenario. Do you think owning guns is similar to owning slaves? I definitely make the distinction there, and can't really apply the same logic from one to the other. I don't own a gun at all by the way, nor have I shot any caliber larger than a .22 (through Boy Scouts).
I mean you said something is a net negative (they both are) but the country was build on it (they both were) well one was clearly wrong and one is... muh rights. Like the second amendment is older than getting rid of slavery.
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First of all, Guns'n'Buns sounds amazing. Soniv you should be my creative director for anything I do in life. I think as far as gun policy goes, I think I'm of similar opinion of Seuss. I'd need to think about it some more as I haven't given it a lot of thought, but at face value that's what I think.
Also Requizen I always love it when you post pictures of your painted models. Necrons are always so cool. I've been reading more Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) and 'dem Necrons can be brutal sometimes.
I also read the Night Lords Omnibus. It was fantastic.
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11589 Posts
On October 10 2015 01:00 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:26 Ketara wrote:On October 10 2015 00:11 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:51 Ketara wrote:
When people try to blame Americas gun problem on mental health I go into a rage. Rage!
I liked the recent jon Oliver video. More people need to know the statistic that mentally ill people are less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population. Well when the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than those who are not then... Yeah... "Statistics" are always bull shit. I do not understand the meaning, message or intention of this post at all, holyflare. You have stated something as a fact that more people need to know. "mentally ill people are significantly less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population" and I'm telling you that it is a flawed statistic because of course that is the case since the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than the amount of non mentally ill people. If there are 10 people in a town and 1 is mentally ill and violent and 2 non mentally ill and violent then if you were to extrapolate to bs statistics then 2/10 of the population is violent and not mentally ill and of course the less populated mentally ill is only 1/10 because there's far fewer instances of mentally ill people. You can then state some bs stat that "mentally ill people are significantly less likely to be violent than non mentally ill!" I don't trust any stat that anyone publishes. Especially in America the land of the corporate dreams. Even a lot of science based journals follow a lot of bias.
Your math is bad.
From the base 10 people, 2/9 are violent not mentally ill, ~22%. 1/1 is violent and mentally ill, 100%. This is not an example of misleading statistics, it's an example of poor math. The actual scenario is, there are 110 people, 10 of those are mentally ill. Out of the 100 left, 25 are violent (25%). Out of the 10, only one is violent (10%). EZ statistics.
The misleading part is that mental illness is a broad category that encompasses many disorders. Many of those disorders (like agoraphobia for example, the fear of going outside) can cause someone to be far less likely to commit violent acts, especially ones that involve large groups of people. It's simply a case of correlation not being an amazing argument for causation.
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On October 10 2015 02:20 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 01:00 Holyflare wrote:On October 10 2015 00:26 Ketara wrote:On October 10 2015 00:11 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:51 Ketara wrote:
When people try to blame Americas gun problem on mental health I go into a rage. Rage!
I liked the recent jon Oliver video. More people need to know the statistic that mentally ill people are less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population. Well when the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than those who are not then... Yeah... "Statistics" are always bull shit. I do not understand the meaning, message or intention of this post at all, holyflare. You have stated something as a fact that more people need to know. "mentally ill people are significantly less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population" and I'm telling you that it is a flawed statistic because of course that is the case since the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than the amount of non mentally ill people. If there are 10 people in a town and 1 is mentally ill and violent and 2 non mentally ill and violent then if you were to extrapolate to bs statistics then 2/10 of the population is violent and not mentally ill and of course the less populated mentally ill is only 1/10 because there's far fewer instances of mentally ill people. You can then state some bs stat that "mentally ill people are significantly less likely to be violent than non mentally ill!" I don't trust any stat that anyone publishes. Especially in America the land of the corporate dreams. Even a lot of science based journals follow a lot of bias. Your math is bad. From the base 10 people, 2/9 are violent not mentally ill, ~22%. 1/1 is violent and mentally ill, 100%. This is not an example of misleading statistics, it's an example of poor math. The actual scenario is, there are 110 people, 10 of those are mentally ill. Out of the 100 left, 25 are violent (25%). Out of the 10, only one is violent (10%). EZ statistics. The misleading part is that mental illness is a broad category that encompasses many disorders. Many of those disorders (like agoraphobia for example, the fear of going outside) can cause someone to be far less likely to commit violent acts, especially ones that involve large groups of people. It's simply a case of correlation not being an amazing argument for causation.
How about, instead, we create a Violence Index, which is more like a weighted indicator.
So taking HF's example, 1/1 (100%) of the mentally ill people are violent, but only 10% of the population is mentally ill, so that's a Mentally Ill Violence Index of 10.
2/9 (22.222 repeating of course %) of the rest of the population is violent, and they make up 90% of the total population = Non Mentall Ill Violence Index of 20.
Clearly non-mentally ill people are twice as likely to be violent in this situation (and totally statistaclly relevant sample size) than their mentally ill counterparts.
The fun thing about math, and statistics in particular, is that if you explain it in a pseudo-accurate way with vague enough details, you can get people to believe anything.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On October 10 2015 02:20 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 01:00 Holyflare wrote:On October 10 2015 00:26 Ketara wrote:On October 10 2015 00:11 Holyflare wrote:On October 09 2015 23:51 Ketara wrote:
When people try to blame Americas gun problem on mental health I go into a rage. Rage!
I liked the recent jon Oliver video. More people need to know the statistic that mentally ill people are less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population. Well when the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than those who are not then... Yeah... "Statistics" are always bull shit. I do not understand the meaning, message or intention of this post at all, holyflare. You have stated something as a fact that more people need to know. "mentally ill people are significantly less likely to be violent towards others than the rest of the population" and I'm telling you that it is a flawed statistic because of course that is the case since the population of mentally ill people is significantly lower than the amount of non mentally ill people. If there are 10 people in a town and 1 is mentally ill and violent and 2 non mentally ill and violent then if you were to extrapolate to bs statistics then 2/10 of the population is violent and not mentally ill and of course the less populated mentally ill is only 1/10 because there's far fewer instances of mentally ill people. You can then state some bs stat that "mentally ill people are significantly less likely to be violent than non mentally ill!" I don't trust any stat that anyone publishes. Especially in America the land of the corporate dreams. Even a lot of science based journals follow a lot of bias. Your math is bad. From the base 10 people, 2/9 are violent not mentally ill, ~22%. 1/1 is violent and mentally ill, 100%. This is not an example of misleading statistics, it's an example of poor math. The actual scenario is, there are 110 people, 10 of those are mentally ill. Out of the 100 left, 25 are violent (25%). Out of the 10, only one is violent (10%). EZ statistics. The misleading part is that mental illness is a broad category that encompasses many disorders. Many of those disorders (like agoraphobia for example, the fear of going outside) can cause someone to be far less likely to commit violent acts, especially ones that involve large groups of people. It's simply a case of correlation not being an amazing argument for causation.
It's not bad math at all you're treating mentally ill people as a non occupant and a separate statistic. Stop belittling minorities. Mentally ill people are people too.
It's also funny how it completely went over your head that I was skewing a statistic in my favour :p
In your scenario 1/110 people is are mentally ill and violent. That's negligible % of the population and must mean that mentally ill people are FAR less likely to be violent!
Welcome to political statistics.
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On October 10 2015 00:28 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense. the right to bear arms has nothing to do with self defense... it was instated so that citizens would be able to form militias to defend themselves from oppressive governments. Just cause it was built on something (ex. the backs of slaves) doesnt mean that its a right that needs to be continued. being afraid of change is the worst.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment
I get you're all eager beaver over the idea of making fun of them darn gun and god fearing folks but at least try to realize it's a tad more complex then that.
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I think you both are saying the same thing. but HF is accusing Ketara of doing it too!
On October 10 2015 02:51 Parnage wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 00:28 ComaDose wrote:On October 10 2015 00:24 Zdrastochye wrote:
I have no issue personally with people carrying guns around. I fully understand it drastically increases the risks of dying by being shot, or just being shot in general. It also increases the odds of tragic shootings. It's a net negative for the American society. I am still fine living here and I do believe that the country was built on having the right to carry a gun around for self-defense. the right to bear arms has nothing to do with self defense... it was instated so that citizens would be able to form militias to defend themselves from oppressive governments. Just cause it was built on something (ex. the backs of slaves) doesnt mean that its a right that needs to be continued. being afraid of change is the worst. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment I get you're all eager beaver over the idea of making fun of them darn gun and god fearing folks but at least try to realize it's a tad more complex then that.
I don't really see anything in that article that disagrees with what i said...
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