EPTOff-Topic General Discussion - Page 4928
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On May 06 2015 19:55 cLutZ wrote: Why doesn't any fighter intentionally try to replicate the SSBM style of no set combos + super high skillcap + actually fun at the skill floor, plus the no set HP pool thing? Its just as baffling to me as the lack of Frozen knock-offs that no one has done it, and just slightly less baffling than Nintendo intentionally ruining the next two games they made. Yeah cause that play station characters fighter did really well lol | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 06 2015 19:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah cause that play station characters fighter did really well lol Its not about the characters its about a non-shitty gameplay. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
But KoF's XIII system is fairly simple: you have a bar for supers, of which you can store up to 5 (some of them use several bars at once), and a bar for cancels. You can cancel a normal into a special, and a special into a super, but to cancel a special into another special it consumes one half of the cancel bar (I think it's called overdrive?), so a "normal" combo will only allow 2 cancels. You can also activate a hd mode ("explosion" followed by a yellow-ish aura around the character) when your overdrive bar is full, which will progressively deplete it and allow you to cancel specials into other specials (or even the same one) and supers into supers at will until it's empty. There are other use for the super bar and another rule about cancelling supers, forgot them at the moment. Edit: oh yeah you can burn one super bar to use the special with different properties iirc, so it's easier to chain into or from it (not sure). So you build up your bars (that's the job of the point character, since it's an all-kill format, you can't switch during a round like SG or MvC), and you can then burn a bit of it for basic combos, or go all-in with the overdrive mode to just kill someone with some long-ass chain (characters like Kim are super good for this and often anchors). See King or Leona T_T Hoy wtf Shen Woo's supers actually hit ridiculously hard. o_o But yeah, there aren't that many cancels or anything in KoF XIII, it's mostly using juggling and ridiculously tight timings. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On May 06 2015 19:55 cLutZ wrote: Why doesn't any fighter intentionally try to replicate the SSBM style of no set combos + super high skillcap + actually fun at the skill floor, plus the no set HP pool thing? Its just as baffling to me as the lack of Frozen knock-offs that no one has done it, and just slightly less baffling than Nintendo intentionally ruining the next two games they made. A big part of it is that melee has a lot of unintuitive design choices and the general direction is rather than making good tutorials on how to git gud designers choose clean design choices over depth. Its the same reason there are no BW semi remakes. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On May 06 2015 20:09 AlterKot wrote: I'm not sure what we're arguing about at this point. Maybe I should rephrase it - SG (along with games like Guilty Gear and Marvel vs Capcom) is on the "almost everything" end of "how much stuff can I cancel into each other in fighting games" spectrum. At least when it comes to mainstream stuff. I didn't think we were arguing.  One thing I'm actually curious about is what so the other fighters do to ensure non-infinites? Or do they bother at all? SG's system is pretty complicated but seems to work pretty well because infinite as I understand the would be pretty easy without their systems. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:01 Eppa! wrote: A big part of it is that melee has a lot of unintuitive design choices and the general direction is rather than making good tutorials on how to git gud designers choose clean design choices over depth. Its the same reason there are no BW semi remakes. To me, actually the opposite is true. Smash Bros is how a sane person makes a fighting game. Combos like Back>Forward>Down>B are idiotic, not only that, they are essential to even a modicum of enjoyment from a standard fighting game. Meanwhile, L-Cancelling and Directional influence are totally intuitive, but also totally irrelevant for players not in the top 10% of the game. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
Melee has a few things that prevent infinites, from its staling system to the knockback scaling and obviously DI. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It makes some matches boring because apparently if you down a character cleanly you're almost guaranteed to get the jump on the next one as he goes in, meaning if you hit him, it's a combo all over again as he'll go in near the corner, and there, you've got 3 100-0 in a row. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:16 Alaric wrote: MvC has infinite (and some characters are based on it iirc?), like, say, Magneto. It's only an issue of mechanically executing the combo because if you don't drop it you'll always 100-0 someone. It makes some matches boring because apparently if you down a character cleanly you're almost guaranteed to get the jump on the next one as he goes in, meaning if you hit him, it's a combo all over again as he'll go in near the corner, and there, you've got 3 100-0 in a row. Yeah and as I understand it that's why SG specifically implemented the anti-infinite systems. Yes the 100-0 rewards good mechanics/strategy but it's truly awful for the opponent and offers very little counterplay at that point. SG's burst leaves the possibility for comeback which makes for way more interesting spectating. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On May 06 2015 19:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Like for example the character soniv plays actually has a move that is used AS a cancel (so it can be chained quicker into other normals) whereas otherwise certain things couldn't be chained fast enough. I'm fairly certain it's the only use for that move, and I think it's even called Egret Cancel. On May 06 2015 22:16 Alaric wrote: MvC has infinite (and some characters are based on it iirc?), like, say, Magneto. It's only an issue of mechanically executing the combo because if you don't drop it you'll always 100-0 someone. It makes some matches boring because apparently if you down a character cleanly you're almost guaranteed to get the jump on the next one as he goes in, meaning if you hit him, it's a combo all over again as he'll go in near the corner, and there, you've got 3 100-0 in a row. I don't understand how things like that could be enjoyable. I get occasionally frustrated at SG combos that go seemingly forever, and it has a robust (although I don't know all the nuances) anti-infinite system. I can't imagine playing a game with characters that are completely designed around infinites. | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:07 WaveofShadow wrote: One thing I'm actually curious about is what so the other fighters do to ensure non-infinites? Or do they bother at all? SG's system is pretty complicated but seems to work pretty well because infinite as I understand the would be pretty easy without their systems. Anime fighters (Marvel and ArcSys) use different forms of hitstun decay, as mentioned by Yamato (the longer the combo goes, the shorter the stun from getting hit is, to the point where characters can recover faster than you can hit them). KoF, SF and Tekken use pushback so that eventually one of your moves pushes you/opponent too far. There's probably more methods but these two are most common. Anyway when are you guys playing? Also can we play on Endless Beta so that I don't have to buy Squigly :> ? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On May 06 2015 19:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah cause that play station characters fighter did really well lol I know nothing about fighting games but i played this a few times and thought it was hella fun. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 06 2015 23:35 Sufficiency wrote: One of the most annoying thing about Smash for me is % dependent combos. But isn't that like, the coolest thing? I wonder if I'm the only one who feels this way, as a person who has never played fighters, every fighting game seems to pale in comparison with Melee. | ||
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