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[NA IHs] Running at Dusk - Page 116

Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
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New inhouse logistics TBD. In the meantime, feel free to hang out in the league general discord https://discord.gg/0lCEKA3jUEFxERzd ("add lol" in #welcome) and get some ad-hoc games going!
Cr4zyH0r5e
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Peru1308 Posts
October 11 2013 17:03 GMT
#2301
it's true that it doesn't happen very often, but it did happen to me yesterday that I picked kennen vs singed and went full cheese with lifesteal and ad quints and dorans start so of course they 2v1'd me and even though I outfarmed the singed by 30 cs. dying to the dive, losing my tower and then dying 2 more times because apparently going past golems without a ward in that situation is over extending lost us the game. It was also a huge learning experience. I think in some situations 2v1s should be kind of expected the way the game is evolving.
Diamond 4 Jungle/Support - http://www.twitch.tv/cr4zyh0r5e/c/3051057 Zyra support 101
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 11 2013 17:05 GMT
#2302
I can definitely say that 2v1's do sometimes happen in solo queue.

Having played 1000 ranked games this season I can say I've been in 2v1 situations probably somewhere between 5 and 10 times. Less than 1% but it does happen.

I agree with the sentiment that learning how to 1v1 and 2v2 is more important, but I think with games happening every day there's more than enough room to work some themes into a schedule.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
yawn
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada200 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-11 17:24:27
October 11 2013 17:21 GMT
#2303
I've only encountered lane swaps 4 or 5 times in 1500 ranked games. I don't believe its something that should be worked on especially since we don't run static 5-man teams. There is too much desparity in skill to have lane swaps not cause a crazy snowball on one side. Teams barely have enough time or communication to figure out a team comp in most games.

Also, lane swaps don't really help an individual player as much as it helps the synergy between players... with rosters being swapped around every game i don't believe theres much to be gained. If you want to practice cs'ing in 2v1 lanes you can do that with 3 people, the mechanics outside of that are negligable and don't require the 5v5 atmosphere.
aka xusic
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-11 17:23:11
October 11 2013 17:21 GMT
#2304
I have a few comments:

1. Lane swaps happened with relatively frequency in the early days of these Neohauses. We attempted LCS level coordination with like, level 3 jungler dives and shit. It was awesome. It also resulted in massive stomps if one team wasn't prepared to play out a 2v1 strategy. Realistically, it also doesn't really help lower level players improve their overall game, because they will probably only run into a handful of 2v1s in yoloQ.

That said, I think really obvious lane swap situations (Vlad v Shen) are totally understandable in these games, and the team making the counterpick should anticipate it happening and be prepared to react accordingly.

2. Last night featured some of the best games, advice, and post-game analysis I've seen to date. During the games, the higher level players were offering solid advice and being really supportive. After the games, we managed to limit dumping on Kissblade's mistakes to ~5 minutes, and the rest of the time was spent providing constructive advice to the lower Elo guys. I think TFS, SNM, and the other bronze/silver guys made some decent improvement throughout the matches, and definitely kept a positive mindset.

3. My deepest sympathies to pandabeargod for ganking your lane 11 times in 5 minutes.
Stay positive!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
October 11 2013 17:24 GMT
#2305
I mean, ultimately it comes down to the question of whether it's a useful exercise for players to be exposed to a situation where they don't have experience or what someone told them to go on, and have to rely entirely on logical reasoning and their game understanding.

These *specific* scenarios don't happen that often in solo queue (Heimerdinger, 2v1s, etc.). But the general scenario of "I've never seen this shit before so I need to know how to play with/against it based purely on logic and game understanding" does.

The question is whether most players in these inhouses actually are at the level where such an exercise would be meaningful. My personal feeling is that it would be meaningful at any level, but Neo disagrees.
Moderator
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 11 2013 17:46 GMT
#2306
On October 12 2013 02:21 yawn wrote:
I've only encountered lane swaps 4 or 5 times in 1500 ranked games. I don't believe its something that should be worked on especially since we don't run static 5-man teams. There is too much desparity in skill to have lane swaps not cause a crazy snowball on one side. Teams barely have enough time or communication to figure out a team comp in most games.

Also, lane swaps don't really help an individual player as much as it helps the synergy between players... with rosters being swapped around every game i don't believe theres much to be gained. If you want to practice cs'ing in 2v1 lanes you can do that with 3 people, the mechanics outside of that are negligable and don't require the 5v5 atmosphere.


I think looking at laneswap scenarios from the 2v1 perspective isn't where you look at it to see if people are learning valuable skills.

What's really important is to learn how to 1v2, and you don't need team synergy to learn that. You just need to play in a 1v2 lane a few times. Lots of champions have an extremely different gameflow in 1v2 as opposed to 1v1, they skill differently and buy different items and everything.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-11 17:50:57
October 11 2013 17:49 GMT
#2307
solo queue practices small changes (champions and playstyles) of ultimately a very slowly changing game. most players will follow a general "meta" and you can get thousands of games on a certain type (ad + support, old days of garen + taric or w/e) and accumulate experience this way.

however the biggest difference between players who can adapt very quickly to new champions and playstyles and those who struggle with such changes etc. in my personal experiences tends to be the level of deeper thought they put / have in the game. general map movements, how something affects power curves of champions (and how that affects the game as a result) and the whole shebang. this can be a strong point of certain players, but as a whole individual mechanical outplays and just a general sense of this deeper thought is enough to win games in solo queue and are thus emphasized more in that mode.

i think the point of these inhouses is to practice this deeper thinking, and fleshing through (and providing reasoning for) 1v2s and invades and strange picks that are played well epitomize that deeper thought process.

for example, when i came back from korea and started playing a little bit after an effective 4 month hiatus, it only took me a a day in solo queue to get back to stomping players in lane and winning games. however my performance in the first few inhouses were abysmal, and im still (re)learning a lot more from these games despite having a higher skill and experience level than the norm because despite having that deeper thought process in my subconscious i haven't actively used it in a real time scenario (arranged play) in a very long time.
Hey! Listen!
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
October 11 2013 17:55 GMT
#2308
On October 12 2013 02:21 remedium wrote:
dumping on Kissblade's mistakes for ~5 minutes

Imo, needs to be longer.

Also, my generic advice to lower elo players would be "Guys, we need to go homme". It's better to die trying than to die running away and not learn anything at all. Don't be afraid of messing up. I'd rather see someone with balls that confirms every Q who learns his boundaries and his damage than someone who runs and dies and is afraid of making mistakes.

Everyone makes mistakes. Just be a man.

God Bless
silencefc
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States875 Posts
October 11 2013 18:42 GMT
#2309
If you and your opponent are both 1 skill shot away from killing each other, you learn a lot more from trying and dying than walking away.

I see a lot of silver players being way too scared of committing to a fight that's already started.

Also, never die with your back to the enemy unless you're buying time for a specific reason. Learning to accept when you're not getting away makes you a better asset in team fights.
Slice like a goddamn hammer.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
October 11 2013 18:49 GMT
#2310
On October 12 2013 02:55 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 02:21 remedium wrote:
dumping on Kissblade's mistakes for ~5 minutes

Everyone makes mistakes. Just be a man.


Gotta feed lvl 3 Shen double kill and double b uffs NP.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
exuals
Profile Joined October 2013
2 Posts
October 11 2013 19:30 GMT
#2311
Registration
- Ingame name
"Daraugho"
- Rank and division
Silver 3
- If you are a lowbie (Gold or below), include what position you would be interested in working on. (List two)
ADC/SUPP
- For each role, identify two champions you wish to improve on
Vayne, Caitlyn & Nami, Sona.
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-11 20:25:30
October 11 2013 19:40 GMT
#2312
On October 12 2013 02:49 Navi wrote:
for example, when i came back from korea and started playing a little bit after an effective 4 month hiatus, it only took me a a day in solo queue to get back to stomping players in lane and winning games. however my performance in the first few inhouses were abysmal, and im still (re)learning a lot more from these games despite having a higher skill and experience level than the norm because despite having that deeper thought process in my subconscious i haven't actively used it in a real time scenario (arranged play) in a very long time.



Well I should point out that we balance around you (as the best IH player) a lot for these inhouses.
yawn
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada200 Posts
October 11 2013 19:45 GMT
#2313
On October 12 2013 02:46 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 02:21 yawn wrote:
I've only encountered lane swaps 4 or 5 times in 1500 ranked games. I don't believe its something that should be worked on especially since we don't run static 5-man teams. There is too much desparity in skill to have lane swaps not cause a crazy snowball on one side. Teams barely have enough time or communication to figure out a team comp in most games.

Also, lane swaps don't really help an individual player as much as it helps the synergy between players... with rosters being swapped around every game i don't believe theres much to be gained. If you want to practice cs'ing in 2v1 lanes you can do that with 3 people, the mechanics outside of that are negligable and don't require the 5v5 atmosphere.


I think looking at laneswap scenarios from the 2v1 perspective isn't where you look at it to see if people are learning valuable skills.

What's really important is to learn how to 1v2, and you don't need team synergy to learn that. You just need to play in a 1v2 lane a few times. Lots of champions have an extremely different gameflow in 1v2 as opposed to 1v1, they skill differently and buy different items and everything.


Which is why i said a 2v1 lane can be practiced by 3 people.

Are we practicing for solo queue lane swaps or ranked 5s lane swaps? Solo queue lane swaps are 90% on the jungler to know whats going on and praying someone doesn't derp. Ranked 5s lane swaps are about teamwork/synergy, communication and rotation strats. I'm just saying these in-houses are not the right environment to practice for lane swaps because the environment is not the same as what you'd get in solo queue nor in ranked 5s.
aka xusic
Eleldith
Profile Joined October 2013
2 Posts
October 11 2013 22:48 GMT
#2314
Registration
- Ingame name
Eleldith
- Rank and division
Provisional
- If you are a lowbie (Gold or below), include what position you would be interested in working on. (List two)
Jungle
Support
- For each role, identify two champions you wish to improve on
Jungle: Eve, Nasus
Support: Nami, Zyra,
Nufo
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States186 Posts
October 12 2013 01:00 GMT
#2315
b]Registration[/b]
- Ingame name
Nufo
- Rank and division
Gold 1
- If you are a lowbie (Gold or below), include what position you would be interested in working on. (List two)
Top/Jungle
- For each role, identify two champions you wish to improve on
Top: Jax, Nasus Jungle: Lee Sin, Nasus

jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
October 12 2013 01:26 GMT
#2316
On October 12 2013 02:55 Roffles wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 12 2013 02:21 remedium wrote:
dumping on Kissblade's mistakes for ~5 minutes

Imo, needs to be longer.

Also, my generic advice to lower elo players would be "Guys, we need to go homme". It's better to die trying than to die running away and not learn anything at all. Don't be afraid of messing up. I'd rather see someone with balls that confirms every Q who learns his boundaries and his damage than someone who runs and dies and is afraid of making mistakes.

Everyone makes mistakes. Just be a man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGMN-gNfdaY

Roffles we dont always get along. But the moment i saw that title my first reaction was that i had to link that song.

Well played sir. You did what I would have done.
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
October 12 2013 15:19 GMT
#2317
Anything going on today? I'm on fall break so maybe I can play with you guys for more than 1 game .
User was warned for too many mimes.
TFS
Profile Joined March 2011
United States53 Posts
October 12 2013 15:58 GMT
#2318
In houses today? :D I'm free for a larger portion of the afternoon and all night after I go win a Magic standard tourney. :X
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 18:14:49
October 12 2013 18:08 GMT
#2319
edit: wait, this should probably be Pokemon related.
Stay positive!
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
October 12 2013 21:10 GMT
#2320
Hey Neo, would Lucian be cool to play as an ADC? I believe really strongly that he's a great champion, and I think he's going to get big soon. It might go a little against the grain of "standard" though, so I just wanted to check.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
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