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On May 26 2025 08:21 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2025 08:07 Pentarp wrote:On May 26 2025 07:44 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2025 07:31 Pentarp wrote:On May 26 2025 06:36 WombaT wrote:On May 26 2025 06:14 Blitzball04 wrote:On May 26 2025 06:07 darklycid wrote:
I hate libs the way zvp and pvt devolve in the lategame because of air units is pretty annoying (and yes i know terran kinda needs libs rn). Libs are OP but the blame is mostly on the toss side. All these toss players are still stubborn and dumb as fuck against it after a decade. Instead of switching to tempest/carriers to support their ground army. All these toss players continue to double down on mass gateway and more useless Robo units. All these late game always end the same once mass libs hits the field. It’s already been proven to death that mass gateway gets slaughter in these situation. Toss players all know this, it’s easier said than done when Maru is in form and breathing down your neck. In the same way, Ghost/Lib, pretty good but you have to get there. They used to do it more frequently a few years back, that or big DT commitments. But I think back then they could play more greedily, more safely than now. Also Stargate openers, be it oracle or phoenix/Collosus are way less common, and that made the transition flow that little bit better. Gatewayman is more fun a watch anyway! Toss are still doing pretty well in the matchup for quite some time now. So I cannae complain too much. I actually don’t think it’s libs as the issue in a scenario like this anyway, they’re more the cherry on top. Judging mostly from this series as tbh I haven’t seen too many TvPs go late in recent months, the turning point comes if you can’t 100% cripple their eco, or get a money engagement. Eventually you end up with a Maru with a gigantic army full of marauders, tons of medivacs and even a few ghosts, even if they get dropped to 40ish SCVs. Not a balance whine but in that specific scenario, Disruptors not 1-shotting marauders is big. You’re not shaving a few off every time, they’ll heal back up relatively quickly. Colossus change from laser giraffes of death, into basically tickling that army. Maru was on the defensive for most of the game. Instead of teching up, Classic was taking all the bases. That was countered perfectly by Maru gutting Classic's main. So all that econ could only make gateway units. PiG also pointed out how Classic needed more HTs vs the high number of libs and vikings, but he kept going for Robo units. You can’t always do everything at this level. Classic was in good spots at times because he went heavy tempo, heavy eco. It’s the dilemma of having a bedsheet that’s not long enough. Pull it up and your feet are cold, and the inverse. Maybe you go heavier on temps, but they’re a more binary unit in that matchup. Robo stuff is worse, but more reliable. Temps can deliver that knockout punch, but you get a few money EMPs against you and you’re screwed. Last cycle, when Classic and Stats were having a lot of success with carrier builds in the matchup, Maru absolutely wrecked both of them in GSLs. I’m not by any means saying it’s impossible, it’s just hard. And while Classic is one of the GOATs, Maru is just better at the matchup if he’s on it. That transition is way more doable if you’re not playing the Terran lategame master, or a Clem that can be seemingly everywhere at once. Classic also went for THREE ROBOS as well as mass expands (maybe he added the third robo when the ones in natural were being threatened, idk). Classic had a good lead but went for the thing that did not answer mass libs - which is airtoss with tempests. Add a few HTs and vikings get zoned out. EMPs are a managable threat. It's been nerfed several times now and Protoss are still complaining about it lol Upgrades are a factor. If you’re playing gatewayman + robo and temp supports, off dual forge, with the chrono mechanic you’re going to be in a good spot there. Swap into air and you need the space to get multiple Stargates up, a fleet and you’re starting from 0/0 when you’re making that transition. As I said, it’s not an impossible transition it’s just bloody hard against someone as good as Maru. You used to see it more when Phoenix/Colossus was more viable because you had the infrastructure way earlier. You can’t really hold your third/fourth with that comp anymore without battery overcharge. You can with gatewayman and fast temps, but that makes the switch less smooth. That aside, congrats to Maru and it was great to see him showing such a level here, I was genuinely worried that injuries had finally taken their toll and one of the all-time greats was done, and even with players I don’t like that’s always a sad thing, and Maru certainly isn’t one of those.
Tempests + HT storms don't care about upgrades that much. Tempests arent supposed to be in the front taking damage. You just need air attack upgrades and a few tempests for the libs. Then you slowly transition into full upgrades and carriers.
Maru vs HerO and Cure vs Hero matches also shows Maru going for early game timings and SCV pulls - because Protoss lategame is very strong.
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without player interviews or any real stage presence this tournament kind of felt lifeless to me. i dont know, the games were amazing, and i got really hyped for them, but so much of what makes LANs special is missing. There weren't even shots of the crowd. This entire tournament could have been replicated 1:1 if it was online and just had player cams.
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lol poor Solar. No matter what the meta or their respective forms Solar is never gonna beat Maru in a Best of 7.
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Great tournament. Really seems like the bracket was as determinative as the players. Surprised to see Serral and Clem get eliminated.
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
Had to miss the end of the finals which was a bummer, but it looks like it was the foregone conclusion everyone expected at that point. Reports of Maru's demise may have been overexaggerated, he was very clean once he got going.
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Wtf, I didn't even realize this event was happening. GJ Maru, I guess.
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United States33388 Posts
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So. That European qualifier is gonna be brutal. Meanwhile Korea... maybe Reynor stays there? Might be easier :'D
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Are guys like Byun/Cure/Gumiho/Zoun/Creator/Bunny/Rogue really easier to get through than Showtime/heromarine/spirit/Lambo/Elazer? I'd personally consider the KR gauntlet harder there. Of course Serral will be in it as well but Reynor and Serral will likely be seeded into opposite brackets depending on how the seeding works.
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On May 27 2025 06:21 JJH777 wrote:
Are guys like Byun/Cure/Gumiho/Zoun/Creator/Bunny/Rogue really easier to get through than Showtime/heromarine/spirit/Lambo/Elazer? I'd personally consider the KR gauntlet harder there. Of course Serral will be in it as well but Reynor and Serral will likely be seeded into opposite brackets depending on how the seeding works.
KR is much harder.
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Grats to Maru! Good to see him powering-up again.
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By the way, with Reynor and Serral yet having to qualify for EWC, the stakes have also been raised at BGE Stara Zagora 2025 in June, which is another place to earn a spot.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On May 27 2025 08:27 Antithesis wrote:
By the way, with Reynor and Serral yet having to qualify for EWC, the stakes have also been raised at BGE Stara Zagora 2025 in June, which is another place to earn a spot.
I was already super pumped for it anyway, great venue, cool to see a new tournament that isn’t piggybacking on EWC money.
But having those extra stakes riding on it, even better!
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On May 27 2025 06:21 JJH777 wrote:
Are guys like Byun/Cure/Gumiho/Zoun/Creator/Bunny/Rogue really easier to get through than Showtime/heromarine/spirit/Lambo/Elazer? I'd personally consider the KR gauntlet harder there. Of course Serral will be in it as well but Reynor and Serral will likely be seeded into opposite brackets depending on how the seeding works.
I was being a bit facetious. But depending on the format and the seeding it's possible that Reynor and Serral have to face off. And while Reynor had Serral's number for a while, it has been about that same amount of time since the last time he won. So I'd rate Reynor's chances over any of the Koreans ahead of his chances vs Serral. Of course, it wouldn't be just one of the top (remaining) Koreans, but multiple he'd have to fight through. So while the EU qualifier will no doubt have more matches, most will be considerably easier than anything he might have to battle through in Korea...
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On May 26 2025 12:32 CicadaSC wrote:
without player interviews or any real stage presence this tournament kind of felt lifeless to me. i dont know, the games were amazing, and i got really hyped for them, but so much of what makes LANs special is missing. There weren't even shots of the crowd. This entire tournament could have been replicated 1:1 if it was online and just had player cams.
The main stage was for CS2 and other bigger esports. If this was played online, then there's the issue of ping which greatly impacts the competitiveness of the players. LAN is best.
I was more disappointed that the casters had to cast remotely. For such a large SC2 tournament, surely EWC could have flown a couple casters out?
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Congrats to Maru and the rest of the top 4... all-Korean semi-finals!
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On May 27 2025 09:01 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2025 12:32 CicadaSC wrote:
without player interviews or any real stage presence this tournament kind of felt lifeless to me. i dont know, the games were amazing, and i got really hyped for them, but so much of what makes LANs special is missing. There weren't even shots of the crowd. This entire tournament could have been replicated 1:1 if it was online and just had player cams.
The main stage was for CS2 and other bigger esports. If this was played online, then there's the issue of ping which greatly impacts the competitiveness of the players. LAN is best. I was more disappointed that the casters had to cast remotely. For such a large SC2 tournament, surely EWC could have flown a couple casters out?
I'm talking about replicated from a production perspective, obviously, as cited by my points. i dont know why people invent arguments for me im not making.
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On May 27 2025 12:46 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2025 09:01 geokilla wrote:On May 26 2025 12:32 CicadaSC wrote:
without player interviews or any real stage presence this tournament kind of felt lifeless to me. i dont know, the games were amazing, and i got really hyped for them, but so much of what makes LANs special is missing. There weren't even shots of the crowd. This entire tournament could have been replicated 1:1 if it was online and just had player cams.
The main stage was for CS2 and other bigger esports. If this was played online, then there's the issue of ping which greatly impacts the competitiveness of the players. LAN is best. I was more disappointed that the casters had to cast remotely. For such a large SC2 tournament, surely EWC could have flown a couple casters out? I'm talking about replicated from a production perspective, obviously, as cited by my points. i dont know why people invent arguments for me im not making.
I was watching both CS2 and SC2 and yes production for CS2 was way better in all facets but I take what I can get for SC2 these days.
Compared to ESL running Dallas last year, this year was a skeleton version and not fully fleshed out.
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To be fair, this event is not really a global “championship”, but rather just an offline qualifier that give extra money incentive. So they probably cut everything possible related to production cost.
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Yeah, where does DH Dallas compare to GSL in the GOAT conversation, since this event had all the vastly superior European players?
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EPT
