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On February 11 2024 20:33 Zergiica wrote:
oh man... is there a point to watch this game anymore? even an amateur can tell zerg is just to fkin strong. you can be 30-40% less skilled and still be on pair with an opponent. clem was much better in 2nd game but you can't when you have disadvantage from the beginning.
it was sad few yrs ago but i was hoping developers will balance this game i always loved (to hate). nothing, they just left zerg too strong. and there is not any new players coming so this is it, serral (zergs) will dominat until game dies or their wrists slow down.
Prolly a bad troll.....
These games had nothing to do with balance at all. Serral is in a phenomenal shape and there are only handful of players (Clem, Dark, Solar, Reynor, Maru), who can challenge him when he is doing his best. AND even then they have to absolutely to bring their best to have a chance. Clem played okay today, but that isnt enough to challenge Serral today. And might be that nobody can.
There are 6 terrans, 4 zergs and 2 protoss in R12. Terran vs. Zerg is very well balanced atm, prolly even bit terran favoured.
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Northern Ireland26604 Posts
On February 11 2024 21:02 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 20:58 WombaT wrote:On February 11 2024 20:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
Yea, I dont know why Clem thinks he can win in a defensive late game without using Siege Tanks. This isn't the first time I've seen him do this either. It’s just a tricky transition I guess, he’s not really playing for it as such. He’s playing a tempo game that tanks don’t really suit, but he’s failing to actually kill Serral, or even really cripple him so he’s got to tech up and switch to a plan B When Maru plays defensively it feels he’s chosen that as plan A, he’s not trying to switch to plan B in the middle of it. I’m still irked that Maru dismantled Reynor playing like that last time, only to decide he’d start fucking around haha. What is it that prevents Clem from adding a few tanks? Adding a tech lab to the factory? I must say over this tournament (didn't watch the game against Shin), but vs both solar and serral, the widow mines really didn't do much? Feels to me Zergs have become really good at minimizing damage taken vs Widow Mines.
SHIN just built units and killed him twice, you weren’t missing much haha
At this stage mines are more a shield to cover dives on your bio, and make it dangerous tricky to engage than something that does much damage against these top players. But they do give mobility over tanks for those tempo plays.
It’s not some impossible transition but you really need to shore up your defences while you’re still relatively intact. Once Serral was at the gates and doing damage, trying to make tanks, split them well, across two outlying bases, nyduses are going down etc. So if you’re going to do that, you have to make that call earlier.
When Maru isn’t breaking his opponent he’ll retrench, have sim cities up, well-placed tanks and often a liberator wall of death to boot, and that buys him time to just rotate his bio/ghost and basically say ‘want to attack in? Good luck!’
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Dark is an agent of chaos.
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Northern Ireland26604 Posts
On February 11 2024 21:08 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 21:02 Hider wrote:On February 11 2024 20:58 WombaT wrote:On February 11 2024 20:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
Yea, I dont know why Clem thinks he can win in a defensive late game without using Siege Tanks. This isn't the first time I've seen him do this either. It’s just a tricky transition I guess, he’s not really playing for it as such. He’s playing a tempo game that tanks don’t really suit, but he’s failing to actually kill Serral, or even really cripple him so he’s got to tech up and switch to a plan B When Maru plays defensively it feels he’s chosen that as plan A, he’s not trying to switch to plan B in the middle of it. I’m still irked that Maru dismantled Reynor playing like that last time, only to decide he’d start fucking around haha. What is it that prevents Clem from adding a few tanks? Adding a tech lab to the factory? I must say over this tournament (didn't watch the game against Shin), but vs both solar and serral, the widow mines really didn't do much? Feels to me Zergs have become really good at minimizing damage taken vs Widow Mines. I think it really depends on where you can force the engagements. Serral is extremely good at choosing where to engage. Other zergs take far bigger widowmine hits because they are forced to fight in places where the marines can just continue to pull back past mine after mine, allowing the mines to utterly decimate the banelings. But Serral somehow just doesn't do that. He didn't let Clem set up like that, which meant the mines were exposed and easily baited by a single ling or even tracked into friendly fire splash. But I don't think I've seen anybody else do that. Solar yesterday lost a huge army to widowmines.
Players, especially Serral are just remarkably good at that. I’m not going to go full ‘highest skill era’ or anything but top Zergs are so much better at dealing with mines at least these days.
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On February 11 2024 21:20 Starcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 20:33 Zergiica wrote:
oh man... is there a point to watch this game anymore? even an amateur can tell zerg is just to fkin strong. you can be 30-40% less skilled and still be on pair with an opponent. clem was much better in 2nd game but you can't when you have disadvantage from the beginning.
it was sad few yrs ago but i was hoping developers will balance this game i always loved (to hate). nothing, they just left zerg too strong. and there is not any new players coming so this is it, serral (zergs) will dominat until game dies or their wrists slow down. Prolly a bad troll..... These games had nothing to do with balance at all. Serral is in a phenomenal shape and there are only handful of players (Clem, Dark, Solar, Reynor, Maru), who can challenge him when he is doing his best. AND even then they have to absolutely to bring their best to have a chance. Clem played okay today, but that isnt enough to challenge Serral today. And might be that nobody can. There are 6 terrans, 4 zergs and 2 protoss in R12. Terran vs. Zerg is very well balanced atm, prolly even bit terran favoured.
You can't use the larger number of Terrans in this tournament to make that determination about TvZ. The only Zergs that have been eliminated from the group stage from who showed up, have been Reynor and Scarlett, and Reynor lost BOTH PvZ matches in his group to Showtime and herO
We have 6 Terrans because we had more Terrans show up in the first place.
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Northern Ireland26604 Posts
I think just sticking around versus such a rough rub of the build orders will probably keep Rag from tilting hardcore, at least hopefully for the sake of a good series.
I hadn’t realised he was such a cheerful fellow until this tourney!
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On February 11 2024 21:33 WombaT wrote:
I think just sticking around versus such a rough rub of the build orders will probably keep Rag from tilting hardcore, at least hopefully for the sake of a good series.
I hadn’t realised he was such a cheerful fellow until this tourney!
This cheery demeanor of his is new. You compare this to how he looked on the GSL finals stage against Maru and it's like its another guy altogether.
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This is not the Dark that showed up last year at Katowice. This Dark is dangerous.
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Northern Ireland26604 Posts
Clutch defence there, although if Rag sent his lings even a little further up that overlord doesn’t give the early warning and no way Dark holds
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On February 11 2024 21:26 Vindicare605 wrote:
We have 6 Terrans because we had more Terrans show up in the first place.
Indeed 6 terrans got a free pass to BO12, this tournament format is no good.
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On February 11 2024 21:20 Starcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 20:33 Zergiica wrote:
oh man... is there a point to watch this game anymore? even an amateur can tell zerg is just to fkin strong. you can be 30-40% less skilled and still be on pair with an opponent. clem was much better in 2nd game but you can't when you have disadvantage from the beginning.
it was sad few yrs ago but i was hoping developers will balance this game i always loved (to hate). nothing, they just left zerg too strong. and there is not any new players coming so this is it, serral (zergs) will dominat until game dies or their wrists slow down. Prolly a bad troll..... These games had nothing to do with balance at all. Serral is in a phenomenal shape and there are only handful of players (Clem, Dark, Solar, Reynor, Maru), who can challenge him when he is doing his best. AND even then they have to absolutely to bring their best to have a chance. Clem played okay today, but that isnt enough to challenge Serral today. And might be that nobody can. There are 6 terrans, 4 zergs and 2 protoss in R12. Terran vs. Zerg is very well balanced atm, prolly even bit terran favoured.
if there is a tournament, there will be every race. i am talking about only players that count - those that are unbeatable. there is 0 toss players in that crowd. serral, dark, clem, *maru, reynor and that is it. solar and byun are close but you can't count on them. and when you watch bets of the best, you can see zerg is just too strong. i mean, you can deny it so you would enjoy more, i did it for years too.
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On February 11 2024 21:44 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 21:26 Vindicare605 wrote:
We have 6 Terrans because we had more Terrans show up in the first place. Indeed 6 terrans got a free pass to BO12, this tournament format is no good.
Nice troll attempt. The only Terran that got a free pass to the Ro12 was Byun. Most of the Terrans qualified out of the hardest groups.
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On February 11 2024 21:45 Zergiica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 21:20 Starcloud wrote:On February 11 2024 20:33 Zergiica wrote:
oh man... is there a point to watch this game anymore? even an amateur can tell zerg is just to fkin strong. you can be 30-40% less skilled and still be on pair with an opponent. clem was much better in 2nd game but you can't when you have disadvantage from the beginning.
it was sad few yrs ago but i was hoping developers will balance this game i always loved (to hate). nothing, they just left zerg too strong. and there is not any new players coming so this is it, serral (zergs) will dominat until game dies or their wrists slow down. Prolly a bad troll..... These games had nothing to do with balance at all. Serral is in a phenomenal shape and there are only handful of players (Clem, Dark, Solar, Reynor, Maru), who can challenge him when he is doing his best. AND even then they have to absolutely to bring their best to have a chance. Clem played okay today, but that isnt enough to challenge Serral today. And might be that nobody can. There are 6 terrans, 4 zergs and 2 protoss in R12. Terran vs. Zerg is very well balanced atm, prolly even bit terran favoured. if there is a tournament, there will be every race. i am talking about only players that count - those that are unbeatable. there is 0 toss players in that crowd. serral, dark, clem, *maru, reynor and that is it. solar and byun are close but you can't count on them. and when you watch bets of the best, you can see zerg is just too strong. i mean, you can deny it so you would enjoy more, i did it for years too.
TvZ is more than fine on this map pool. Sorry bud. I know it hurts to think player execution matters.
In other news, this version of Rag is a happy dude.
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What a pure clown fiesta ZvZ is, pro's should just learn Zerg to play ZvZ vs Serral.
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Funny how zerg is op vs terran only when serral wins
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On February 11 2024 22:01 stilt wrote:
Funny how zerg is op vs terran only when serral wins
And if Clem had won like he had at Atlanta we'd likely have a TvT finals haha.
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On February 11 2024 21:26 Vindicare605 wrote:
You can't use the larger number of Terrans in this tournament to make that determination about TvZ. The only Zergs that have been eliminated from the group stage from who showed up, have been Reynor and Scarlett, and Reynor lost BOTH PvZ matches in his group to Showtime and herO
We have 6 Terrans because we had more Terrans show up in the first place.
Well, of course not as a whole, but its still a good example from todays racial strengths. So you are saying that TvZ is unbalanced ? If we look up from Aligulac, the current situation of win rates; TvZ and PvT are at 50% and only PvZ is 53% for protoss.
On February 11 2024 21:45 Zergiica wrote:
if there is a tournament, there will be every race. i am talking about only players that count - those that are unbeatable. there is 0 toss players in that crowd. serral, dark, clem, *maru, reynor and that is it. solar and byun are close but you can't count on them. and when you watch bets of the best, you can see zerg is just too strong. i mean, you can deny it so you would enjoy more, i did it for years too.
You complained about balance after TvZ(Clem/Serral). Now it is about protoss too weak ? And in your list, there are 2 terrans and 3 zergs ? How is that SO unbalanced ? Also, one could argue that at least MaxPax and her0 could be on that list in their best days. I agree though that protoss seems bit weaker atm. Its not as bad as before though.
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On February 11 2024 22:01 stilt wrote:
Funny how zerg is op vs terran only when serral wins
Equally funny is that Ghost/Mines is OP when Serral lost.
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On February 11 2024 22:08 Starcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 21:26 Vindicare605 wrote:
You can't use the larger number of Terrans in this tournament to make that determination about TvZ. The only Zergs that have been eliminated from the group stage from who showed up, have been Reynor and Scarlett, and Reynor lost BOTH PvZ matches in his group to Showtime and herO
We have 6 Terrans because we had more Terrans show up in the first place. Well, of course not as a whole, but its still a good example from todays racial strengths. So you are saying that TvZ is unbalanced ? If we look up from Aligulac, the current situation of win rates; TvZ and PvT are at 50% and only PvZ is 53% for protoss. Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 21:45 Zergiica wrote:
if there is a tournament, there will be every race. i am talking about only players that count - those that are unbeatable. there is 0 toss players in that crowd. serral, dark, clem, *maru, reynor and that is it. solar and byun are close but you can't count on them. and when you watch bets of the best, you can see zerg is just too strong. i mean, you can deny it so you would enjoy more, i did it for years too. You complained about balance after TvZ(Clem/Serral). Now it is about protoss too weak ? And in your list, there are 2 terrans and 3 zergs ? How is that SO unbalanced ? Also, one could argue that at least MaxPax and her0 could be on that list in their best days. I agree though that protoss seems bit weaker atm. Its not as bad as before though.
I don't think TvZ is unbalanced right now. I just don't think you can say it's Terran favored based on Ro12 representation.
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13322 Posts
On February 11 2024 22:04 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 22:01 stilt wrote:
Funny how zerg is op vs terran only when serral wins And if Clem had won like he had at Atlanta we'd likely have a TvT finals haha.
Terran is never imbalanced
Protoss on the other hand... fucking lasers
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EPT
